League Rundown - Episode 599: The Second Ever First Stand

[00:00:11] Speaker A: The amazing gets hit. Kimmy kids a little too far here. He's gonna have to try and get himself out. Let me go. Tillery and the rest of the shots of fire. Zion is just killing the next. Zion can eat it single handedly win the game by game by game by game by [00:00:26] Speaker B: should be. [00:00:27] Speaker A: Oh my God. Stupid. Passes through and manages to the table with Messiah tanking it up. I do not believe he just believe. I cannot understand this game. Unicorns of love. It wasn't a mutant. The Nexus. Hello and welcome to episode 599 of the League Rundown. This is your 2026 first stand preview episode and it's lovingly entitled the Second Ever First Stand. I'm your host Kangas and I'm joined by two esteemed co hosts. Up first we have fresh out of the can, it's Badger. [00:01:26] Speaker B: I just want to say that I'm very proud of myself this year because I don't think I've actually said first strike once. I've been actually managed to say first stand every single time. It's came up in conversations. So. [00:01:37] Speaker A: Brother, I'm pretty sure you called it first strike last week. [00:01:40] Speaker B: Listen, we don't talk about. [00:01:43] Speaker C: We don't talk about that. [00:01:44] Speaker B: Listen, short term memory. Come on. You gotta be like a goldfish. [00:01:48] Speaker A: Anything Ted love. [00:01:49] Speaker B: If anything Ted Lasso taught me. It's like. It's be like a goldfish. [00:01:52] Speaker A: Be a goldfish. True, true. You know what? I'll be a goldfish with you. Even though I do have a recent memory of USA in First Strike. Shit. I mean stand. But you know what? I'll forget about that. I'll forget about that. We also joining us. You heard his voice briefly. It's Bickle. [00:02:08] Speaker C: I'm ready for the absolute most unpredictable tournament that nobody has any clue what's gonna happen with. [00:02:15] Speaker A: I don't think any of us could possibly predict this one accurately. Also I totally forgot. I'm gonna redo that real quick. And up first, our second co host. It's. [00:02:25] Speaker B: And the big Bickle Pickle. [00:02:27] Speaker A: There we go. I forgot I had that on my soundboard. [00:02:29] Speaker C: That's never dying. [00:02:31] Speaker A: That's never dying. That one. That one's staying in the league rundown community forever. But yeah, smaller crew today. But we're gonna be talking about first stand. We're gonna talk a little bit our reactions to the America's cup as well. Because up this past week we technically don't. [00:02:47] Speaker B: What's the America's Cup? [00:02:48] Speaker A: Never heard of it. [00:02:50] Speaker B: Be like a goldfish. [00:02:52] Speaker A: If you Guys want you could just be quiet for, you know, a minute while I tell people that we suck. But I would like your thoughts at least if you're willing to give them. Otherwise it'll be most stand focus this episode but before all that we're gonna cover some news around the globe. Roster news. It looks like we already have some movement over in Lec. Bickle, what's going on with team Heretics? [00:03:17] Speaker C: Yep, Heretics has parted way with their support Stend and has signed Way way currently. Well, was a part of a team in the EMA Masters. Solari. Sorry, not Solari. Were they on Solari? I'm trying to remember what team they're on. [00:03:35] Speaker A: Don't remember the team but notably not way as in Wei. It's way as in W A. Yep. [00:03:41] Speaker C: And sorry, he was on Misa Esports and they were pretty good. [00:03:45] Speaker B: Yep. [00:03:46] Speaker C: They're currently in the EMEA Masters, qualified into the knockout round and was really performing solidly. Him and Hype were a very good bot lane that Misa had worked really hard to acquire. And yeah, so Stend is heading back over to Misa. It's a trade but not really because Heretics is just like we want this player but sure that should be a good upgrade. [00:04:11] Speaker A: Well considering Heretics like relatively disappointing end to the split, I think if you are an org that is going to make a roster change, it makes more sense to do it now than after split two because if you're trying to make a push for worlds like it gives you an extra split to try and get everybody on the same page and everybody together. So wouldn't be surprised if that's not the last shift that we've seen. But that's the. The first one at least that we've seen. Badger. Any. Any big thoughts on that one though? [00:04:38] Speaker B: No idea who this guy is. I'm gonna be honest. [00:04:41] Speaker A: Totally fair. And often that happens with the Emea kind of tier two players coming in to lec. But they do sure have a lot of players to pick from in the pool of tier two variety topics. Badger. This is something that you can talk a little bit about. There was some allegations in about some match fixing happening with one of the players. Talk to me about it. [00:05:07] Speaker B: Yeah, so there was. Hold on, let me pull up the article real fast. [00:05:12] Speaker A: There was that. [00:05:13] Speaker C: I also want to call Badger out for not knowing way despite the fact that he played with KT Rolster. [00:05:19] Speaker B: Listen, listen. It's been. It's been, you know, purge from the memory banks. Okay. So over in the lpl there Was a player named Nayu? Nayu? No, I can't remember. [00:05:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know how to pronounce their name, but they play for Top Esports. [00:05:40] Speaker B: I believe they played for Top Esports. And then he quote unquote admitted to. Admitted that he match fixed every game TEs lost in playoffs. According to Poppy, the head coach of Top Esports, on a live stream, which has been debunked slightly that he. He kind of. He. At one point it was like, well, that's not what I said. That's not what I meant. I didn't like. There's a quote that he had later in here. I apologize for getting carried away earlier while chatting with a former teammate during my. The match viewing. My intention was simply to express that it was truly unfortunate that the first stage turned out the way that it did because of this incident. At present, I am not aware of the latest investigation results or specific detail. So I asked everyone to please refer to the league's official findings as the authoritative force or Source. [00:06:32] Speaker A: So essentially Interesting [00:06:35] Speaker B: 369 is now defending Nayu. So it might not be that he was match fixing. It might just be that he fucking sucks just during playoffs. [00:06:46] Speaker A: Or maybe he like mental booms and the coach is pissed off about it. Yeah, it's tough to know like for sure. It's just. That's a wild story and a wild thing for a coach to say on stream and then walk back. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Yeah, so essentially, since we didn't really meant. I didn't really mention at the top there's this jungler they lost in playoffs. They were, you know, TES was a good team. They were coming in and they didn't make first stand. So of course that's, you know, that's the goal for everybody at this point in the season. And then there was all this stuff that came out and apparently there's a formal LPL investigation going on. We do not have any further details at this point. But be on the lookout for maybe an LPL announcement in the next week or two. [00:07:36] Speaker A: Yeah, players can get banned for life for stuff like that. Like you might just never be able to play if there's evidence around that. And it's. It's tough because like this is lpl, the tier one, but ldl, the developmental league. There was also a lot of. Of scandals and stuff going around. And I know there's been rumors in the past of players over in the lpl, but never substantiated. So it's just a bad reputation for a league to have in A region to have is like, oh yeah, there's match fixing that happens over in the Chinese League. So yeah, hopefully for top esports that's not the case because that would be very frustrating. Either way, it's gonna be awkward for the coach and the player. [00:08:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Going forward. Not a great, not a great thing to have one of your players just being like, oh yeah, or one of your coaches being like, oh yeah, this player was match fix. And then it turns out he actually wasn't. [00:08:27] Speaker A: Not even saying that he's match fixing. Saying that he admitted to match fixing. [00:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:31] Speaker A: And then if it comes out to be like, oh, there's no evidence or it's ruled against that or something, then it's like, well, there's no way that they're going to work together. I would be very surprised if they did. And then, I mean, what team's going to want to sign that coach anymore? Because that's just going to make an awkward environment no matter where they end up going. [00:08:49] Speaker C: So what could possibly go wrong? [00:08:53] Speaker A: A lot, actually. Bickle, I believe. But you know, again, memory of a goldfish, maybe that is the takeaway here. It's just forget, forget that both parties said anything and then move on. That's it for global news that we had though, if we missed anything, a reminder that you can let us know by joining the community. Discord. There's a link to that in the description wherever you are listening. And then also thank you. Big shout out to anybody who helps support the podcast and helps us with our audio editor payments as well. Well as the hosting of the website for getting this audio out to all the different platforms as well as a little nest egg that we have for end of year stuff. You can support us through the Patreon as well as the Merch shop. Both of those will have links in the description as well. But with all that being said, usually we do like an LPL update, LCK update, CBLoL update. Guess what? We're going to give updates on those in the primary episode today because it's time to talk about first stand. We're gonna have all regions with teams representing. But before we get into that pickle, give everybody a rundown of the America's cup reaction or not America's cup reaction. Oh, what? Yep, now I'm looking at the doc and now I just read America's cup because that was the next thing I forgot to talk about. America's Cup. [00:10:09] Speaker C: Haha. Did you really though? [00:10:13] Speaker A: We honestly probably could have just got over that and not missed out on Anything, Badger. I'm going to make you say it though, because I feel I don't just inflicting emotional pain on you for some reason. What happened at America's cup this past week, [00:10:30] Speaker B: to put it in the best way possible. Cam Ward last year and his rookie season playing for the Tennessee Titans, said in a press conference quote, if we keep it in a buck, we ass. And I feel like that quote fits very well with how we can talk about the state of the NA vs CB LOL rivalry at this point because Furia didn't drop a game all tournament long. [00:11:05] Speaker A: Yeah. For anybody who wasn't keeping up with America's cup, it was four teams. The number two and number three seed from each from LCS and CB Lowell. So the ones that didn't get to go to first stand essentially and it's like a little mini tournament in Brazil the week before first stand and it was like, oh, let's keep this inter regional rivalry between north and South America. Normally we run those fools. We are much better. Last year LTA championships was tough because like we got Colon good. They beat Shop Fire Rebellion and then Vivocade. Yeah, and the Vivocade actually made to the finals and were able to beat 100 Thieves. [00:11:40] Speaker C: Hey, but if you're just talking about the first split where we also had NA versus Brazil, we did, I want to say 81 them. [00:11:52] Speaker A: We lost a game. Yep. We did not drop a series. We only lost a game. We crushed them. And so throughout 2025 that one year they did get better. They were way more competitive by the end of the year than they were at the beginning. But expectation for America's cup was I think much closer to beginning of last year than the end of last year. Oh my God. They have continued to get better. Like holy shit. [00:12:15] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:12:16] Speaker A: Red cans. Kalunga played C9 as their first opponent almost reversed or rather, sorry, no, they in the. The first match was a 20 that they lost to Sentinels. But then in the lower bracket against C9, best of five, they almost reverse swept them. C9 were 2 0, then 22 had to win game five. We almost got Colunga again. And then the big kicker was the fact that in the upper bracket it was like, okay, well C9 have jet lag. They're probably tilted from losing in finals to lie in. Sentinels are probably the hope of LCS. They got 3 0ed by Furia who 2 owed C9 earlier. And then it's like, oh shit, guys. Like, this is not good. We got to get our shit Together maybe by the time we have the finals, like the teams won't be as jet lagged and they'll have the rest. And like all these excuses we were making for them and we get three out again. That was embarrassing. [00:13:09] Speaker C: It was not. In fact the jet lag. [00:13:12] Speaker A: It was not. And I don't know what the takeaway is, honestly, other than as a die hard North American LCS fan, I don't know. I. I can't make an argument for us having three world seeds and Brazil only having one like that. It just doesn't make sense. Especially if like firsthand goes poorly and loud beats lion, which is our first round opponent. Can you imagine the shit storm that's coming our way? That happens. [00:13:44] Speaker B: One of the players already said like they need to review like the fact that they get three world slots and we only get one after this. Which actually I think that's a really good incentive for America's cup next year. Like play for. Play for world spots. Like you could do something games. [00:14:01] Speaker C: Technically we have two MSI spots and CB law only as one. Make America's cup for the second spot. [00:14:07] Speaker B: Oh, that's actually good. Yeah, I like could be that there's [00:14:11] Speaker A: a lot of options because right now all that CB, LOL won, all that Furia won for going 8 and oh against LCS teams. They won a free boot camp during msi, which if Furia wins spring split and goes to MSI to represent Brazil, then it would just go to whatever the next highest seed team is. So it's like, it's kind of weird and actually I think technically there's even like other teams that get it anyway based on like regular season performance. But I don't remember what the full breakdown was. It was just that like the winner of America's cup gets like an extra one for their region for a free boot camp. So I mean it's a cool prize. It's worth like me and Azale were talking about it. We don't know hard numbers, but we were both guesstimate it would be around $50,000 for a two week all paid trip to boot camp. Because you need the hotels, the flights, food like the PCs and the room to like practice and everything. So like that adds up really fast for two weeks of travel for a team that size. So it's not nothing but like yeah, it could be bigger, like an international spot. So it. That's embarrassing. That was tough to cover from a broadcaster standpoint. Did you guys catch any of the games? Do you have any opinions of like the. The Coast Stream vibe that they. It was very much intentionally wanted us to. Great. [00:15:39] Speaker B: You guys did a good job. [00:15:40] Speaker C: It was fun. You guys made the best of a bad situation in terms of games. [00:15:44] Speaker B: You really did. [00:15:46] Speaker A: I think if we had to take that cast seriously and weren't encouraged by our producers to be biased and co stre vibes, it would have been way worse. Oh yeah. Because, oh my God, we didn't look good. But I do know a lot of people were not happy with it. Like, I was getting DMS of people being like, oh, gross. Like, never do this again. And I'm like, not our call. Like, it. This is an experiment that they wanted to try out. Having the casters do this style. And then I, I can't speak to like, if, if they were happy about it. We haven't had a conversation about, like, what the. The reaction was, but it was simply right leadership saying, like, yeah, we want to try it out and see. See what the community thinks of it. But I'm happy to hear that, you know, there were people enjoyed and in Twitch chat as well, there were also people that were like, oh, it's, it's fun. Like we could actually see the casters now when they're. When they're casting. [00:16:34] Speaker C: My takeaway from this tournament is I genuinely think inspired. Broke Blabber. [00:16:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:41] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. [00:16:42] Speaker A: Oh, my God. And if you remember, Tatu was a jungler from Brazil. Young jungler, 19 years old, only been playing now in his second year. He was a jungler inspired last year. Really glazed a lot, if you remember. Inspire. Talking well about like Kryra and Griffin this year. He had similar words for Tatu last year saying like, oh yeah, this guy is like a top three jungler in the Americas, if not like the second best. Obviously Inspired thinks he's the best. But he considered tattoo like really, really good. [00:17:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:15] Speaker A: And yeah, no surprise. That kid was crazy. [00:17:18] Speaker C: And then also shout out to Toots and just his record against North America in general. Because if I'm remembering right, on Loud Academy, he won what was basically tier 2 worlds between NA and CB. [00:17:33] Speaker A: Lol. [00:17:35] Speaker B: Yep. [00:17:36] Speaker C: Then he went to. Oh yeah, they both were for this. Then they went to EWC and beat Cloud9 before losing to Fly Quest, before then going on to America's cup to 8o North America. [00:17:49] Speaker A: Technically, if you want to include the EWC tournament, they are individually on a six game win streak against C9. [00:18:00] Speaker C: That's absurd. [00:18:02] Speaker A: Which is just filthy bad. Oh, God. [00:18:08] Speaker C: I mean, hopefully poor Thanatos. [00:18:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, man. I I'm curious. I haven't talked with anybody from C9 about it yet, but I'm hoping that there's like. I don't know, I. It's just some, some hope that they can give some reason. Like, oh yeah, everyone got a stomach bug on like the first day. I didn't see anything like that of their content yet. But if that was literally just like, oh, that was the best we could do in the moment. Yeah, that's. We're gonna have to really improve in spring split to. To have our second seed do any damage in msi. Okay, well, I said we're gonna talk about that for like two minutes and I think that was about five and a half there. So let's move on because this is the first Stand episode and I don't want to be depressed anymore. So instead let's be depressed about the how this is a two region event. [00:19:03] Speaker C: Be real. This is a one team event. [00:19:05] Speaker A: It's a one team event. Before we talk about the teams though, Bickle, now we've gone full circle. Can you talk to me and everybody about the format in case anybody has not yet seen what the format for firsthand is going to look like? [00:19:17] Speaker C: Yep, sure thing. So it's a pretty standard format. We have eight teams here. Two from Korea, two from China, one from Europe, one from North America, one from Brazil, and then one from the APAC Asia Pacific region. Our representatives are Gen G, Blg G2 team Secret Whales, Lion, Loud, BNK, Pherex and JD Gaming. They are broken up into two groups of four with Blg and Gen G being awarded Pool 1 due to winning the major regions. Well, the two main regions of the LPL and the LCK, whereas BNK, Ferx and JD Gaming, by being the Pool 3 teams by coming second in their regions, were dropped to Pool 3. That means in Round 1 we get wonderful China, Korea matchups. But as we mentioned, two groups of four, double elimination bracket go to qualify go to one qualify to the main knockout stage where it's single, single single elimination tournament between the top four teams. Best of fives every game. [00:20:25] Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting because anytime I hear, oh, there's two groups, I immediately instinctually think of group stage round robin. [00:20:34] Speaker C: It's not round robin though. It's a bracket. [00:20:37] Speaker A: It is a group stage bracket. So we have two different groups and like you said, all best of fives, double elim, which I think is cool because we will only have best of fives for all of first stand. I actually think that's a really cool addition here. That is an immediate win for this type of format. The downside is that it's going to be one of those international type tournaments where two teams are going to be going home having only played two series and then a third, third and fourth team are going to be going home playing three series total because of the double Elim bracket. So that's a bit of a bummer. But like if the sacrifice is it's all best of fives and we're going to, that almost guarantees that it will be the best teams in the top four. I guess it's a sacrifice that, you know, we're going to have to at least be willing to make and then see if we like it afterwards. Still a short event though, only only one week long. So Badger, let's talk about the participating teams. Then Bickle highlighted he thinks it might be a one team tournament. Talking about the LCK representatives and which one of those teams we think is going to be the clear favorites. [00:21:43] Speaker B: So we have two teams coming from Korea. We have Generation Gamers and we have BNK Ferx. So Generation Gamers is, you know, this young upstart team. You might have, you might have heard of them before. I don't know. They seem kind of like an indie team at this point. It's, you know, it's these names. Keen Canyon, Chovy Ruler and Duro. Seems like a pretty well unknown. [00:22:15] Speaker A: It's weird you say that. I recognize all those names. [00:22:17] Speaker B: Oh, oh, okay. [00:22:22] Speaker A: You know what? [00:22:22] Speaker B: Caicus, you know, Ball. Congratulations. You, you. You know, because. [00:22:25] Speaker A: Okay, good. That makes me a true fan then. [00:22:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So gen G lost two games the entirety of the LCK cup including going 110 in group stage. A 31 versus DK, a 31 versus fear X and then another 30 versus fear X in the finals. [00:22:47] Speaker A: This is now three years in a row. By the way. The Gen G has just looked like a dominating force in the early year. [00:22:55] Speaker B: They're. They're pretty good. So if you're doing the math at home, they went 22 in the LCK Cup. Coming into into first stand, fear X is another team that's here from Korea that's participating in the tournament. This one is actually. I mean there's some names on here that I like more than on the other team, I'm gonna be honest. But we got Clear Raptor and then the one two punch which is actually just a one punch of Daystar and Vikla in mid lane and then Diable and Kellen as the bot Lane. [00:23:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And you said the two mid laners. It has been Vikla from my understanding. [00:23:39] Speaker B: It's been Vikla every single game. So I would love to see daystar play. But unfortunately Vikla has been playing really well and the team is doing well. Obviously they beat, you know, Damwon and T1 coming into this tournament. So I. I think he's given him plenty of reason. But Diable might be. Oh my God. [00:24:02] Speaker C: Oh Diablo. [00:24:03] Speaker B: He is, he is giving me. I. I watch him play and all I can think of is like end of 2013, like early 2014. [00:24:16] Speaker A: Deft. [00:24:16] Speaker C: Yes, like exactly that player. [00:24:19] Speaker B: What? Like young. Deft is what I see in this kid. He is so good. He is gliding. He is making ad carry look easy. And this team, this team plays around him very well. I'm excited to see how they perform in this tournament world. [00:24:38] Speaker C: Welcome to the Diablo Show. [00:24:40] Speaker B: It's about to be the Diablo. Diablo Show. It's fantastic. [00:24:44] Speaker A: I'm so sad that his name is not Diablo. It is Diable, which is still a cool sounding name. But man, could you imagine me to play by play hearing Cam Flowers make some pun about Diablo. Like oh, that'd be so good. [00:24:59] Speaker B: Yeah. So this kid is 18 years old. He just got the call up from Fear Ex Youth at the end of 24 or 2024. He played all of last year as a 17 year old in Korea. It was making a strong name for himself and I'm so excited to see him on the international stage. It's going to be great, dude. [00:25:25] Speaker A: Young talent coming out of Korea still to this day, man, they're just so good at developing. [00:25:30] Speaker C: May not remember this but. But during the time of Worlds there was a small tournament going on in Asia between all the like 5, 6 and 7 seeds of the LPL. LCK and LCP. Diable ran this tournament. [00:25:45] Speaker A: He. [00:25:45] Speaker B: He took everybody's lunch money at this tournament. [00:25:48] Speaker C: Yeah. And it wasn't just a bunch of no names. Like this was against JD Gaming last year against Weibo, against gam, against dk. Like these were some serious teams and he just styled on all of them. [00:26:03] Speaker A: Yeah, damn. [00:26:05] Speaker B: Like that. Like some of the 80 carries of this tournament were like aiming and pays and light and leave and he was just running the show. He was the best player at this tournament by far. [00:26:19] Speaker A: So it sounds like we have two very different, like I struggle to say style. That's not the right word. Two different narratives behind the two different LCK representatives. One is like the clear favorites to win. They crush every year at like the beginning of the year. They won first stand last year. [00:26:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:35] Speaker A: I'm trying. [00:26:36] Speaker C: They didn't make first stand last year, Hana. Life. [00:26:39] Speaker A: Yeah, that was. That was the big surprise there. [00:26:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:41] Speaker C: The question for this tournament is not can Gen G win or will Gen G win? It is will gen G12. Oh. [00:26:48] Speaker A: Mmm. [00:26:50] Speaker B: That is beaten the finals. [00:26:53] Speaker A: So if that's the expectation for Gen G, then Fear X is a very different scope because it's like a much more focused on one very exciting hype developing player. And like how are they going to look at their first international? Is that kind of what I'm hearing then? [00:27:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it's basically the Fear act story is the story of CFO potentially that we had last year at first. [00:27:15] Speaker A: Sure. [00:27:16] Speaker B: So like a breakout team. The team that nobody expects to come out and have a great showing with players of the team like Hongq who have fantastic performances. Well, funny enough, Diablo might be the Hongq of this year, which funnily enough. [00:27:34] Speaker A: Let's talk about him. So that is LCK and kind of expectations for them. Bickle. Talk to me about the lpl, the other powerhouses. Yep. At the international stage. [00:27:44] Speaker C: So to start, the one seed of the LPL that has won that the one again to no one's surprise, is Bilibili Gaming. You still have your standard names from last year of Bin night and on no one's surprised. Just like every tournament, every region runs through somebody the LPL runs through missing [00:28:02] Speaker B: a player that you forgot to mention in there. [00:28:04] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, June has returned to the team after his year away and they realized, yeah, we need a good jungler back. But they brought a new AD carry. Yes, Elk was pretty damn good, but is he Viper? Good because BLG has brought in Viper as a ringer. They saved him from. [00:28:25] Speaker A: Yeah, it's crazy because like Elk, I still was very impressed with. I think he was still. This day is like one of the best ezreals, if not the best Ezreal I've ever seen. [00:28:34] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:28:37] Speaker A: But yeah. Freaking Viper. Holy. [00:28:40] Speaker C: Yep. [00:28:41] Speaker A: Anybody? Yeah. [00:28:44] Speaker C: So no one's too. [00:28:46] Speaker B: It's fine. [00:28:47] Speaker C: Now the second team returning to the international stage after a week, after a year off is JD Gaming. They were the team a few years back on that golden road. They made the biggest signing of the off season. They brought in Tabe as their coach. You can't fail with Tab as your coach. [00:29:04] Speaker A: But they kind of track record as [00:29:07] Speaker C: a coach right now his track record's absurd. [00:29:11] Speaker B: Like it's really good. [00:29:12] Speaker C: He was responsible for anyone's legends climb last year. He took BLG to new heights the year. A couple years before that he was with RNG when they won their multiple MSI titles. Like, he is the best coach in China. But the real story for JD Gaming is how they rebuilt their roster. They have some young guys. There's Shaoxu and Vampire as kind of their young guys to try and build up. Gala has been saved from Invictus Gaming and RNG now has a stage to shine on. But the real surprise here is some familiar faces that were at first stand last year. We just talked about cfo. JD Gaming said, yeah, let's throw all the money at these CFO stars and brought over Junjia and the young gun Hong Kyu. This is Hong Kyu's fourth or fifth international in a row or something like that. It's a crazy run for him. [00:30:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:13] Speaker A: And he's looked good. [00:30:14] Speaker C: Oh, he's. [00:30:15] Speaker A: We saw him in last year, like, this player. I had never really seen a player come out from like, the Pacific region before. That made me this excited. But, like, young Taiwanese guy, funny in content, great on camera, like just on stage. Has like this presence about him. He's just like a goofball. And then you look at his nameplate in game, you're like, oh, my God, this kid's crazy. Oh, yeah. [00:30:42] Speaker B: He's like the biggest signing out of Pacific to go to like, the LPL since, like, sofm. Yeah, I would say it's. [00:30:51] Speaker A: It's rare that like, we get that movement from the, like, you know, the Pacific region over to China. It doesn't happen that often, but. But this is definitely a big pickup for them. [00:31:03] Speaker C: So. [00:31:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I know it was a dis. [00:31:05] Speaker C: He was a big reason that CFO found all that success last year. He was hanging in with the best of them. Last year he went toe to toe with Faker for five games. [00:31:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:17] Speaker A: And looked good doing it. Like he was solo kill Faker at one point. And it's tough because, like, the flying oysters, they're still okay. They're not going to be at this event. It's team Secret whales instead. We'll talk about them here soon. But like, CFO still have doggo, which was the other part of that. Doggo and Hong Kyu were both really hyped, but Hong Kyu decided, hey, there's greener pastures, and succeeded in, you know, still making it back to an international event. So I think a good decision for him individually as a. As a player and very, very exciting to see how much he's able to Improve or, like, show us that he has improved over this last year. Expectations, though, for lpl. What do we think, Beckle, in terms of, like, heavy hitters like either BLG or JD Gaming? Like, do or can either of them challenge Gen G, or do we think that they're going to be more challenging? Like the fear X's, the G2s, the team seeker whales. [00:32:10] Speaker C: They should be a solid second place in this tournament. And if they're not, it's a problem. They can probably think that they can. If any team can contest Gen G, it's blg. Do I think they will? No. That's more about my thoughts of Gen G than it is my thoughts of blg. BLG are a great team. There's no doubting that when they're on, they can beat just about anybody. It's just Gen GS. Gen G, yeah. [00:32:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Genji is just like the team to beat right now. And even though T1 are reigning champions, still feels like that's just, you know, the skins department buffing their damage by 10. We know they got the button back there. [00:32:52] Speaker C: Gen G could win this tournament, win msi, go undefeated in the LCK in spring and summer. And if they don't win Worlds, it will still be a failure of a year. [00:33:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I would consider that, but I think to them and the fans, they would. Yeah. It's just crazy. They can't. [00:33:11] Speaker C: I understand you saying it wouldn't be, but that's basically what they did last year. [00:33:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:20] Speaker C: And the year before and the year. I think they've been the LCK number one seed at Worlds for like the past four or five years. They've been one of the favorites and just haven't been able to win. It's absurd. [00:33:34] Speaker A: That's crazy. Well, hey, they. They maybe have a bit of a layup here if we don't think that LPL is going to be that big of a competition. And we already saw what Genji looked like domestically against teams like Fear X, which leads us to the lcp, another of the Asian regions, kind of the younger brother of LCKLPL often. But they've been getting better. They've been looking better year over year. And I think that this is a chance for Team Secret Whales to show kind of who that definitive third best region is. If not, you know, surprise us and maybe push for even higher. I'll cover this one for what I know of Team Secret Whales. I don't watch lcp, so I don't have a lot of information on itest stuff. I wasn't able to catch the games ahead of this recording, but their story this year kind of their journey was really solid. Regular season they were 6 and 1 in series only dropping a series to Deep Cross Gaming who were also 6:1. So the other kind of top dogs and then pretty good upper bracket run in playoffs. 3 1ing, 3 2ing against deep cross and then facing off against Deep Cross again in the grand finals with a 30 this time. So they lost them in the regular season but then beat them twice in playoffs. It really felt like it was kind of a two team tournament going on there to Team LCP region. But yeah, Team Secret Wells's roster consists of Hero and Poon in the top lane. I'm gonna hope it's actually pun and not not what I just said. Then his toe in the jungle. Dire mid lane, Eddie Bot Lane and by or bi B bie, however you want to pronounce that, in support position. Do either of you have any more information or general knowledge about Team Secret Wells? Whether it's play style, whether it's fun facts, whether it's expectations. [00:35:20] Speaker C: So this team did go to Worlds last year as one of the three LCP representatives. It was the same roster, except instead of Buyee they had Toots as support. I mean Taki as support. So a team that's kind of remained together looked solid. Like you mentioned, they were absolutely top of the class this year. I think it's tough because everyone has such high expectations for the LCP this season. I really think it wasn't the LCP exploding last season. I think it was just cfo. So I'm expecting a bit more of a fall down to earth this year. [00:35:59] Speaker A: Oh, interesting. CFO were the dominant force of the LCP because of players like Hong Kong Doggo that we had been talking about earlier. So it's kind of cool that Hankyu gets to, you know, face off against this region at firsthand. Depending on what happens in. Of course. [00:36:17] Speaker C: Yeah. It just requires them both to pull off miracles and well, it requires Secret Whales to make a miracle and qualify to the next round. [00:36:25] Speaker A: And now that I'm realizing the way the group shook out. Yeah, that actually. [00:36:28] Speaker B: Yeah, not happening. [00:36:30] Speaker A: Yeah, unlikely. Hey, it's possible it could happen. [00:36:33] Speaker B: You never know. [00:36:35] Speaker A: Yeah. That leaves three more regions and that is the western regions here. LEC have G2 representing them. LCS have lion representing them. We've talked about them numerous times throughout the pod, so let's just leave it at expectations for them. What do we Think, guys, is this going to be an NA EU rivalry this year? They're on opposite sides of the bracket too, so there's a low chance that we ever see each other. Or do you think it's just going to be like we're fighting for that bronze position? Let's hear from Badger first. What do you think expectations for either lion or G2? Just like overall strength versus the competition? [00:37:16] Speaker B: I mean, I think that's, I think the G2 is the team that's more set up for international success at this point. Loud or not loud? Loud. I mean, loud too. But lion, especially when we saw how C9 performed coming out. Maybe, maybe, maybe it is the jet lag and that lion broke C9 and everything like that. But I mean, you, you do have to come out firing if you're lying at the start because you have to defend the honor of the LCS at this point. Considering CB. LOL. [00:37:46] Speaker A: IS. [00:37:47] Speaker B: IS 8,0 up on them at this point. Pretty much. [00:37:50] Speaker A: With. Yep. [00:37:51] Speaker B: With America's cup. But, but I, I mean, Inspired is still one of the best players, if not the best player in the west. And you've got a strong bot Lane with Berserker and Isles. Big Doakes is, is performing really well. So I, I, I would like to have hope. I mean, it'll be interesting to see what happens if they do lose that first game and their backs are against the wall and they do have to play a jdg. Like, what's gonna happen? Like, are, are we gonna get smoked out of the tournament very early on in the process? I, I would like to hope not at this point. I'm not trying to speak this, to speak this into existence whatsoever, but, you know, on the other side, you got G2. G2 is the team that's had international success. They've looked good. I mean, they, they stumbled to start the season and the lec, but they ended up, you know, coming out as the seventh seed and winning the split. [00:38:51] Speaker A: I mean, they all keep getting away with this. [00:38:53] Speaker B: They can't keep getting away with it. They almost got reverse swept by KC in the finals. That would have been a crazy story coming into this about what happened to G2, but unfortunately they're. The reports of their demise have been greatly exaggerated and they've got a favorable, I mean, I think they have a pretty favorable matchup for themselves with, with Secret Whales in the first round. I mean, who knows? I, I think Secret Whales might have upset potential in there as we talk about something later on, but that's beside the point. [00:39:25] Speaker A: But I think yeah, in general I'm a little lower on lcs, higher on lec. Even before America's cup happened I was feeling that way of like I I think LEC top three playoffs was more competitive than LCS top three playoffs. It really just felt like lion hit their stride and inspired, did insp and then they were able to just embarrass kind of everybody else in the region. Did not seem like Lion. I'm sure. I don't want to take away from the success. It didn't feel like they had to work super hard for it. Whereas G2, it was like it was close in the top three. Like two back to back best of five, five game series and the gameplay was entertaining and pretty high quality. That leaves one more team though and that is our first round opponent from the LCS standpoint. That is Loud representing Brazil and the cb. Lol. This is a team that I did not think was gonna be great coming into this event just because of relative strength to cb. Lol. In the past, the fact that the regular season they had a weird like format. It was best of ones for like the first round robin, then it goes to best of threes in playoffs and then it's only the last like four series or something. Were best of five. Actually I think it was only like lower bracket was best of fives. Either way they played two best of fives the entire split. Everything else was like half best of ones and then two best of threes. In fact they played seven best of ones, five games in best of threes and then seven games in best of fives. Which I don't think sets a team up well for an all best of five international tournament. And then America's cup happened and I started shitting my pants thinking oh God there is a chance that we actually lose this. This Now I talking to CB L. English unofficial caster shout out 4x4 Enrique RMC as well is on that show. Their general opinion is that the top of CB L is more homogenized like Loud Fury, Red Canids were all about the same strength by the end of the split. So they don't think that Loud is like much better than Furia or Red Canids. And then if you want to make the argument that lion are that much better than C9 and Sentinels, I think that feels better for us. But I'm not going to say that this is going to be a cakewalk anymore. I actually think that there is a real world here where we lose. What would that be? 4 best of fives in a row against Brazil and I don't know if I can handle living in that world. That'd be crazy. Nickel. What do you think about Loud though and chances against Lion? [00:42:06] Speaker C: I'm still confident in lion. If not, not purely because of inspired. Plus you have that wrench thrown in for Loud because of the whole situation that went on with their mid laner about I want to say right before finals they're starting mid laner like stepped down for reasons and they had to bring in an emergency player in Envy who hadn't played competitive and a couple for a bit. But he stepped in and they ended up winning the finals. But that's still a tough time to adapt given you haven't been with the team the entire year. [00:42:46] Speaker A: Yeah. It is also important to know I realized I didn't go through the whole roster here. It's Zyno, top lane, Young J Jungle. It was Mago in the mid lane and then like you had said just real shortly before playoffs Envy came in. I don't know the whole story behind that. I don't think we covered that on the pod. But then it's Bull and AD Carry, Redbird support. So some of those names might be familiar to you. The big not notable thing is that for Furia and Red Canids, those are both almost all Brazilians Red candidates. Mid laner is Argentinian but still South American player. Loud is the only team that has two Korean imports in Young Jae and In Bull. So a slightly different roster build for. For this team but noting that is a different mid laner coming in now that does give me a little more confidence, a little more faith that hopefully there's some cracks in the armor that Inspired and company can can try and exploit. Badger thoughts on on Loud and CB lol in general, [00:43:50] Speaker B: you know, replacement players. I think their top laners on loan from Vivo Key. Yeah, top laners on loan from Vivo Key right now too. So you know, young players coming into the team actually might be the. No second like the third youngest player at the tournament. You know, I don't. I don't want to count them out at this point. We'll see how they go, how it goes. Because I mean lion as a first test and then if you lose that, unfortunately for them, they play the loser of JG JDG in what would be the lower bracket game. So that's two. That's a. That's a rough test into one of the presumed top four teams of the tournament. So you know. Yeah, they talked about, they talked about extra World Slots. I mean, prove it. Like let your one seed be good too. [00:44:44] Speaker A: If Loud can beat Lion, I think that that is the nail in the coffin. And the oh LCS is like deserves that third world spot. And again, I say this with all NA bias hoping that does not happen. But I got to be honest and [00:44:58] Speaker C: please, inspired save us again. [00:45:01] Speaker A: Please save us. Please, please. So that. That is the groups again. I think we skipped all the representatives. We kind of discussed G2 in. [00:45:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:13] Speaker A: And a little bit. Yeah. [00:45:15] Speaker B: So G2, if you don't know them at this point, are broken blades, Skew Bond Caps, Hansama and Le Brav. So caps with his, you know, 16 or 17 domestic titles. Hansama, who's one of the three best AD carries in the west and the rest of his team, who are really good, you know, almost got reverse swept by KC in the finals. MSI 2019 Champs World's 2019 World Finalist what else, what else, what else, what else, what else? [00:45:45] Speaker A: You gotta go that far back to really talk about how good they were. [00:45:48] Speaker B: They have a really good valorant team that made top four in Master Santiago right now. Lost to NRG in 2024, world in 2023. [00:45:57] Speaker C: I think you are correct that this was CAPS 16th LEC title. [00:46:01] Speaker B: Okay. We were talking about it last week, but I couldn't remember if it was it. I like looked at it and I wasn't sure if it was 18. [00:46:07] Speaker A: Hold on. [00:46:07] Speaker B: 17. [00:46:07] Speaker C: I don't know if it's 16 or 17 because this says 16 time LEC champion. And this is most domestic championships with 17. But there might be a weird overlap where like they won summer and then that transitions into like the finals, which they also win. So I don't know. [00:46:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that happened with Inspired as well, with like how many titles he has. Because, like, technically in 2025 there were four titles you could get, you could win. Split one, split two, split three, and the LTA championship, which is like a different thing. Yeah, last year was funny. [00:46:42] Speaker C: Basically, the LCK runs through Chobe, the LPL runs through Good Night, the LCS run through Inspired, and the LEC runs through Capsule. [00:46:51] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So that is the teams and kind of explanations of them. Bickle, you had pointed out a couple of interesting facts you had noticed about certain lanes, certain positions and certain kind of trends coming into it. So would you like to regale the audience of what you noticed? [00:47:08] Speaker C: Sure thing. So looking at the teams that we have in this tournament, the AD carry pool is absurdly talented. Like just looking at the players we have here, we have Ruler, Viper, Han Sama, Berserker, Diable, Gala. And then you also have a bull and Eddie who I'm not as familiar with, but I'll lump them in because they're still AD carries at this tournament. But then you look at the supports that are at this tournament and. Well, I'll let the list speak for itself. You have Duro On, Labrov, Isles, Kellen, Vampire, Redbert, and by [00:47:54] Speaker A: a slightly less esteemed names. Totally slightly. But yes, that is, that is remarkable of a difference in. I don't even know, reputation I guess is the word, a difference in reputation between the AD carries and the supports. [00:48:14] Speaker B: Yeah. AD carry meta. [00:48:17] Speaker A: AD carry meta. I feel like this is gonna be echoes of. Do you Remember was it 2017 MSI that was like Reckless Double Lift Gorilla or Sorry, pray pray. The 80 carat gorilla was the support, I believe. Yeah, there was another MSI that I remember was like notable for having like Every region's top 80 carry of all time and Uzi was there. So yeah, it's like I feel like we're. We're gonna get kind of a similar storyline going into this first stand, which is very exciting. 2018, was that 2018? Maybe it's 2018. [00:48:54] Speaker B: 2018 because that's when RNG won. [00:48:57] Speaker A: Yeah, sure, sure. I just remember that there was a specific MSI that. That was a big talking point. This is like the most impressive bot lane representation at a international tournament ever. And of course only one team for each region there, but still. Yeah. Group A is going to be BLG versus BFX and then G2 versus Team Secret Whales. Group B is going to be Gen G versus JDG and then lion versus Loud. We're not going to go through every individual match prediction because it's all going to be a one week event. We're not. We won't even have an episode go out next week. We're going to save episode 600 for the week after as a react to firsthand and also hopefully bring in some fun guests returning for a a big anniversary episode. So we're gonna get as much as we can for just general expectations of first stand. Now we're gonna talk about just which teams we get out of Group A and Group B to start off. And surprise, we're all in agreement it's BLG at BFX and then Gen G jdg. Let's frame it this way then. What do we think? Bickle and then Badger. Bickle, who is the most likely in your mind to find an upset over the kind of homogenized top four that we've come up with here. [00:50:12] Speaker C: If we call BLG, BFX, Gen G and JDG the top four, I think the most likely upset is G2 over BFX. [00:50:22] Speaker A: I think I agree with that statement. Group A seems to be the group of death because Team Secret Whales is in there. Group B just having lion loud is I think putting it down a bit. But jdd, Gen G are like in my mind gonna be like a tougher competition for lion or allowed to beat than G2 or Team Secret whales versus BFX. So even though like the the strength overall is higher in my mind in group A, I think that the likelihood of an upset could also be higher too. Badger, do you concur? Do you think It'd be like G2 over BFX? [00:50:57] Speaker B: Yeah, probably. You know, yeah, looking at this, it's. It's really. Unless lion pulls off the upset of a lifetime against like jdg. [00:51:11] Speaker A: Dude, I'm telling you right now, if they did, I looked it up again. I like to remind myself of this and just be depressed over and over again. It has been actually Badger, I already told you this. Bickle, how many days do you think it's been as of today recording since North America beat an LPL team in a best of five. [00:51:30] Speaker C: In a best of five. So let me think. The last time that happened was likely 2019 MSI. [00:51:40] Speaker A: That is correct. 2, 489 days. I'll just say it because. [00:51:48] Speaker C: Sounds about right. [00:51:48] Speaker A: You got the the tournament correct. It has been 2,489days. By the time we get to to first stand and that match would potentially happen, it should now then be like almost 2500. It'll be like 2496 or something like that. That's gonna be crazy. Now do I think it's gonna happen? Probably not. Do I hope it happens? Absolutely freaking lutely. Now firsthand winner. We all agree it's gonna be Gen G. We've talked about our reasons already. Best in the West. This is an interesting one. So I had two categories here for us to give predictions for. First was best in the west and then the other is the bronze region as in the third strongest region which is slightly different because LCP is included in that as well. So for best in the west being best performing Western team for game record. I know I've been sounding super down on them, but I have a reason for it. I have Lions as being the like game record. Best performing Western team. Badger and bickel both have G2. I'll give my reasoning, because the two of you already kind of agreed that it would be G2 with the highest chance of an upset. I don't think Lions can upset anybody. I think that even though Brazil embarrassed us in America's Cup, I Lion has a higher chance of 3 owing loud than G2 does of 3 owing secret whales. And then if they can just like get a game against jdg, that can really help their their game record. So I think that game record wise there, they'll be the best in the West. Even though G2 probably will look better as a team and we'll have higher quality League of Legends games happen. Do you guys think I'm crazy? Badger, let's hear from you. Am I smoking the good stuff here? [00:53:34] Speaker B: No, I don't think so. [00:53:36] Speaker A: Cool. [00:53:37] Speaker C: Hell yeah. [00:53:38] Speaker A: I kind of wish I were though, because then I might put that lion are gonna, you know, make it out of group B. That is different though from bronze region, which is the region that we think at the end of first stand will be the third best. It's always lck LPL in that order. That's really never changed outside of the two year period that Europe got back to back world's finals and won an msi. Since then it has just been these two regions. So let's run it through. Bickle, who do you have as your bronze region? Third best region in the world after first stand. [00:54:14] Speaker C: I think the best in the west in the bronze region is just clearly the lec. They their best teams right now. Just feel. I feel like between G2, KC and Mkoy, those are probably three of the four best teams in the west. And I think they're just the third best region right now. [00:54:34] Speaker A: I think I agree with that statement. [00:54:36] Speaker B: I also agree with it because I just changed it. I had. I was going to make the LCP case and I'm just sitting there and I'm like, yeah, but I think Casey actually, actually might be like. But Casey is better than any other regions. One seed right now. So you know what? Or why be not any of the other regions outside of like lcklpl. [00:54:57] Speaker A: So damn, that's a big statement there. Wait, did you. Did I hear that right? You just said KC is better than any other regions. [00:55:06] Speaker B: What like seed? So like if you were to rank all of the other teams outside of the LCK and the LPL, so like LEC, LCS, LCP and CB, lol, it would go G21, KC2 by far. Wow. [00:55:25] Speaker A: Of the remaining teams from LCK LPL, you think that Casey's better than like. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, [00:55:31] Speaker B: no, no, no, no. Of the. Of the four regions that aren't LCK or lpl. [00:55:38] Speaker A: Okay. Thank goodness I asked a qualifying question twice. Now I'm just bad at listening. Okay, cool, cool. Yeah, no, you're good. [00:55:46] Speaker B: No worries. Yeah, if you take all of the LCK and the LPL teams out, I think it would be the case that GT is gonna be the best team and then it would be KC2 after this tournament. [00:55:55] Speaker A: I think I would agree with that statement. And I. Depending on how lion looks, there's a chance it's even MCO up there above lion, above Loud, above Team Secret Whales. We're gonna learn a lot about kind of how they look here. I have LEC also being the bronze region for the simple fact that again, I hope and I think that lion can be the best performing Western team because they only have to go through lion or, sorry, they only have to go through Loud in the their first round, which should be the weakest team. But then also G2, it was a competitive end of the split. Like their finals was a five game finals and they had to work for that win. KC had to work for their win against MKOI. And even if G2 doesn't have as good of a win record, I still think that they will look like a like better performing League of Legends team, even if they're losing more games because they're on the tougher side of the group. So yeah, there we go. We all agree LEC as the bronze region, slightly different than Best in the West. I'm sad, Badger, that you as a coward decided to not make the LCP argument though. [00:57:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I could. I can't. I'm gonna be honest. [00:57:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess it is. At least you chose consistency because that would have been a little out of the blue based on how we were talking about Team Secret World. But there we go. With that being said, that is expectations. That is a little mini prediction segment there. And since we do have a little bit more time here at the end of this episode, I want to do something fun, something that. That is tradition for folks that have tuned in to the podcast in years past for international events. But we do have a couple of new people joining us on the podcast, so it should be their first time. We like first off to do visual bits in an audio medium. This is known. We've talked about this a lot. But we also like to do the tradition of making tier lists in unconventional ways, specifically rating the logos of teams at international events. So without further ado, everybody, a return of a beloved segment, the league rundown's definitive team logo tier list for first stand. Now, there's only eight teams here, there's three of us. We're going to do it in classic format where we do a snake draft and then at the very end you can vote to move one up or down one level in the tier list. So that way we get a more accurate representation of everybody's opinions. If you think that there's one egregiously misplaced, you can move it around a little bit. And yeah, let's see how things shake out this time because there are a lot of new representatives compared to last year for first stand or some of the other ones. Bickle, since you're first on the discord call, let's have you go first. You can take any of the eight teams and let me actually share my screen to everybody here. So that way at least you can follow along those that are in the call. [00:58:50] Speaker B: But even more of a visual bit, [00:58:52] Speaker A: a visual thing for the folks in the recording, people at home. Just imagine you're filled. We're filling out a tier list. Bickle, what team would you like to put first on the tier list? [00:59:04] Speaker C: All right, let's take a look. [00:59:06] Speaker B: Now, [00:59:09] Speaker C: I think we're gonna keep it pretty simple. This team has a phenomenal logo. This team has had a phenomenal logo for a long time. Thank you, kangas for beating me to the punch. G2's just S tier. [00:59:21] Speaker A: I just threw it up there the moment you say. I honestly think G2 is, in my opinion, maybe people disagreed based on where they put stuff. This is the only S tier logo in the entire frickin thing. This is a classic, like you said, and it always ranks high. [00:59:37] Speaker B: So I like it. [00:59:38] Speaker A: Only one. That's the only one I would have. But let's see, let's see. [00:59:42] Speaker C: I think one's got an argument. [00:59:43] Speaker B: I think I'm gonna go next. [00:59:45] Speaker A: I'm gonna go next and I'm gonna do, I think the other obvious one. In my opinion. I'm putting loud in F tier. I hate this. It's an annoying color. Green. It, it. Okay, so like what's on the tier list that we're using right now? It spells out loud, but usually it's just the D from loud, which looks like a play symbol. Like on CD player you're trying to hit the play button. That's what this symbol is. I don't get it. I don't like it. I'm throwing it down in the F tier, Badger, that means that you are next. What team would you like to put on? And remember, you get two in a row because you are the end of the Snake draft. [01:00:26] Speaker B: Oh, you know, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do something that may be controversial, [01:00:35] Speaker A: special, [01:00:37] Speaker B: which, I mean, what else is new for me at this point? I am gonna take lion and I am going to put them in S here. [01:00:49] Speaker A: S tier for Lion. [01:00:51] Speaker C: That's where I was going. [01:00:53] Speaker B: I think that's, I think that logo is fantastic. It's. It just pops, like, especially on the jersey. It looks really good. Like, it, it's. No, it, it. Trust me. It's like, if I had to go, like, pinnacle of esports logos, It'd be the Cloud 9 logo, the G21. And then I think lion, just because it fits the name, like, really well [01:01:19] Speaker A: right now, I, I, I struggle to put it S tier. I would have it in A tier, but I do like it a lot. I think that you're not completely off base. [01:01:29] Speaker B: You probably valid. I think it's between. It's on the, the border of, like, S and A. But I, I'm going to give it the bump up because I think it's really good compared to some of these that are on this list. [01:01:40] Speaker C: Sure. Yeah. He stole the world's words right out of my mouth with the fact that it's straddling that S to a line. It's the only one that can kind of compete up in the S tier. [01:01:51] Speaker A: I agree. It's up there. I like it a lot. The only mark I would have against it is that it is just a symbol and doesn't, like, communicate the name of the team. I know that's ironic because the team name is just a lion, but it's a lion. Yeah. Okay. But, like, they couldn't put, like, L, Y O N somewhere on there, like, in the fur? [01:02:17] Speaker B: I feel like that would take away from it if you put lion in the fur. [01:02:21] Speaker A: But that's where I think that the differentiator between the A tier and an S tier is for me, because G2, it's like a samurai helmet. And the G2 is also a mask on the helmet with, like, the little red eye. Like, it's just. They found a way to seamlessly make it an identifiable thing, which is a samurai helmet and the team name. And I think that being able to do both of those things is important for me for something to be in the S tier again, I'm not mad about this. I think it's a Great logo. [01:02:48] Speaker B: I'm glad you're not mad about it. You might get mad about this one. Put secret in a. [01:02:57] Speaker A: Okay. It's at least distinct. It is a visually distinct logo, I'll give you that. But why do you think it deserves a tier? [01:03:04] Speaker B: It just fits the name of the team really well. You know, the sort of top hat with the investigative eye. It just. The fit. I mean, I've also been staring at this logo since, like, 2015, 2016, because this is an organization that was in the dota scene. It's been in other games for a long time as well. I think it's just. I think it's a really good logo and I've liked it for the last 10 years. [01:03:29] Speaker A: It is also a big S. Like, it's like an eyebrow and an eye, but it's also like in the shape kind of of an S, which I think is cool. Yeah. [01:03:38] Speaker B: You know, back when logos meant something. Damn it. [01:03:43] Speaker A: All right, I. You know what? I'll give it to you. I like that one. [01:03:46] Speaker C: Just don't ask where the whales are. [01:03:48] Speaker B: Don't ask where the whale is. [01:03:50] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. Maybe this is the eye of the whale. Have you ever thought about that? [01:03:53] Speaker B: That maybe. [01:03:55] Speaker A: All right, that leaves me next. I'm going to take one A. A one of mine that I think I always rank higher than anybody else does. So it'll be my turn to piss people off if they think that this is, like, a bad one. And even then, I. I don't think I'm going to put it, like, too highly. I like the JDG logo. [01:04:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:14] Speaker A: I think that the JDG with, like, the little horns and, like, the fang gives it so much personality while also still being, like, just three letters. The only thing I mark against it is that it is jdg. And for some reason the D is not a D. They made it another J, which doesn't make any sense to me. So for that reason, I'm gonna put a B tier. I would put it a tier if the D was just an actual D, but I'm throwing a B tier. Even though it's just three letters. It's at least cool. It's cool. Three letters. [01:04:53] Speaker B: I miss their old logo so much. [01:04:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And I know that also people, like, don't like this one because it isn't the old one. I still think it does it for me. And B. B tier, Completely respectable. It's not crazy. It's going right where I think it deserves to be for a little creativity. Bickle, any thoughts on that otherwise you're up and you get two in a row. That you get a place. [01:05:15] Speaker C: It's. It's fine. It's a fine logo. It's lettering, but there's some fanciness to it, so you can bump that up a level. I'm a. I'm put BLG don't put that F or C. In all honesty, I'll just put it C. Okay. [01:05:34] Speaker A: Thank goodness you didn't put it F, because that would have immediately forced me to move it up at least one. Okay, first off, let's hear your thoughts before. Before I give. [01:05:43] Speaker C: I mean, it's. It's just pretty bland. Like, it's just the initials. Like, they don't have the fun stylization that JDG does. It's. It's just letters. BLG. [01:05:55] Speaker A: That is how I last year, until mazel. Pointed out that the B is a thumbs up. Have you noticed that the negative space in the B. Look at the negative space. It's a hand reaching out with a thumbs up. And that is, like, their symbol. Is the thumbs up symbol for blg. [01:06:14] Speaker C: Ne. [01:06:15] Speaker A: I think that's really neat. I. If you put it, I immediately move it to. See, I still think outside of the thumbs up, it's like the only good thing about it. [01:06:24] Speaker B: That's why that's the only thing saving it from being F. Like, let's be honest. [01:06:29] Speaker A: It is unique coloring. It's like, does the light blue and then the pink. That's kind of cool. No. Yeah. [01:06:36] Speaker C: Okay. [01:06:37] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, you're stating facts at this point. [01:06:40] Speaker A: I am stating. [01:06:41] Speaker B: You're stating facts, but my opinion says otherwise, so. [01:06:45] Speaker A: All right, well, there we have it. That is one for Bickle. Bickle. You get another one. You have Gen G or bnk. Fear X you can place. [01:06:54] Speaker C: Do I pick the logo that's incredibly simple or the one that looks like they threw everything at the wall and waited for something to stack? [01:07:05] Speaker B: I don't think that's the actual Fear X logo anymore. It's just the rabbit now, isn't it? Oh, no, never mind. It is the. [01:07:11] Speaker C: Nope. It's International esports club. [01:07:14] Speaker B: It's dog. Okay. [01:07:17] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm gonna put that one. I' ma put Fear X. Honestly, it's such a. I'll put it C. Just because of the rabbit. The rabbit's nice. Everything else is a jumbled mess. [01:07:29] Speaker A: At least it has a, like, little mascot on it. But this screams, like, tier 3 soccer org to me. [01:07:37] Speaker B: Yes. [01:07:38] Speaker A: Where you just throw, like, every name brand sponsor thing on there. Do you want this above or below BLG on the C tier? [01:07:48] Speaker C: Because of the thumbs up below. [01:07:50] Speaker A: Okay. The thumbs up from BLG does save it. I think this is about where I'd put it as well. If they found a way to simplify to make it less noisy. I like it a lot, but how are you gonna have. [01:08:01] Speaker C: Just use the rabbit. [01:08:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And how are you gonna have both a circle and a shield on the same logo? Are you guys seeing this? They put a shield in a circle. [01:08:13] Speaker C: We're so lucky Duffy's not here. [01:08:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it's crazy. [01:08:17] Speaker A: It's crazy. That leaves me for Gen G. But honestly, I've. I'm just agnostic about this. Badger, I'm gonna give you this one. I'll give you the third pick because otherwise you would have only gotten two, because I honestly don't even know where [01:08:31] Speaker B: I'd put Gen G. Collaborate on it. Where would you. Where would you put it? [01:08:35] Speaker A: Right now I think I'm leaning B just because it is another one where it's just two letters. It's a gg. But at least they, like, mirrored them and made it into a little shape that kind of looks like a shield. So. [01:08:49] Speaker B: Okay, I would have it in B above jdg. [01:08:53] Speaker A: Okay, so you'd put above jdg. [01:08:55] Speaker B: Yeah, that's where I would have it. [01:08:57] Speaker A: So I'm comfortable with that. I'm comfortable with that. So that means as of now, before we all run through and give potential changes, it's G2, lion and S tier secret and A tier gen G and JDG and B tier BLG and Ferrex and C tier Loud Alone and F tier. Bickle, you're up first. Would you like to move any logo up or down one? [01:09:23] Speaker C: If I had to. [01:09:26] Speaker A: You don't have to. You can also say pass if you. If you think that this is what you would actually place yourself. [01:09:32] Speaker C: I think I'm gonna move JDG down to C tier, but in front of blg. [01:09:36] Speaker B: Okay, so credit down there. Now. [01:09:38] Speaker A: It is a little crowded, but you know what? I can live with it. I can live with it. At least I didn't put JDG8 here because I. There was a world I was gonna do that. Okay, so you move that down. I'm also gonna move down one, and I'm gonna move lion to the top of A tier. In my mind, it can't be up there in S tier because of the reasons that I gave. I think it's. It's a fantastic logo, just not quite everything I want which means, Badger, you are last. Would you like to move anything? [01:10:09] Speaker B: I can't just move lion back up to S tier. That would be. [01:10:13] Speaker A: I mean, you, I believe. Were you the one that put it up there originally or did you want [01:10:17] Speaker B: to put it up there originally? [01:10:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I forgot to say that. [01:10:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:10:22] Speaker A: You know what? [01:10:23] Speaker B: I'll just. I. I'm not gonna move anything. I'll just. Just keep it the way it is. [01:10:28] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. I like it. [01:10:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Unless. Unless we can reorder, like, BLG and Fear X. Let's like, switch the two on season. [01:10:38] Speaker A: Oh, sure, sure. [01:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:40] Speaker A: So just move Fear X above blg. [01:10:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:43] Speaker A: Okay. [01:10:44] Speaker B: That's something. [01:10:45] Speaker A: It's something right there. [01:10:46] Speaker B: It's something. [01:10:47] Speaker A: So the final homogenized league rundown, definitive First Stand logo tier list is as follows. In S tier alone, rightfully so. G2. In a tier, we have lion and Team Secret Whales. In B tier, we have Gen G. In C tier, we have jdg, bnk, FURX and blg. And then in F tier, we have Loud. And there you have it, everybody. Another year, another international tournament. Another Logo tier list. First time a lot of people probably would have experienced one of those. Longtime listeners of the Pod will know that this is a tradition of ours. Either way, thanks for tuning in for that, everybody. And thanks for joining us for another episode of the League Rundown that's gonna wrap things up today. First Stand is right around the corner. And Bickle, what day time does it start and do we have the first match? I believe we have the first matches already on the schedule. [01:11:46] Speaker C: Yes, we do. It will begin Monday the 16th at 9am Eastern or 6am Pacific. And your debut match will be BLG versus BFX. [01:12:01] Speaker A: That is an exciting one. And then G2 versus Team Secret Whales will be happening right after that. So make sure to set your alarm, set your calendar, everybody. It's gonna be an early wake up for me next week, but I cannot wait for more International League of Legends competitions. Now, the second time we're experiencing First Stand and Badger. If anybody has the free time, they find themselves with a couple extra minutes in their day after listening to this episode. How many stars would you recommend they leave this pod? If they. If they want to drop us a [01:12:33] Speaker B: review, I think they should leave us five stars for. Well, no, I can't say that because. Because NA and Brazil are one. They're not one region anymore. Yeah, I think you should leave us five stars for the fact that all of the games are best of fives. [01:12:56] Speaker A: True five stars for only BO5s. There we go. And also shout out to whoever was the one in charge of putting together first in format this year. I think it's going to be very interesting to see the double elim groups, but I just love the fact it's all bo5s and I love the fact that you got to this part of the episode. Thanks so much for tuning in everybody. If you can leave us a review, it helps us get noticed. Thank you to everybody who supports the pod. A reminder, the Patreon and the Merch Shop links are in the description below. But most importantly, what I want you to take away from this episode is that we love you and we'll see you next time. Bye bye. [01:13:33] Speaker C: Peace. [01:13:36] Speaker A: Oh yes, Daddy. [01:14:01] Speaker B: Sam.