League Rundown - Episode 509: The Big Unknowns

[00:01:11] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome to episode 509 of the League rundown. This is the MSI major region preview 2024, and this episode is lovingly entitled the big unknowns. I'm your host, Sean Giulianoff Duffy. I'm joined today by three esteemed co hosts. We have the ever present Jack Zoman, twitch TV Jackson. [00:01:38] Speaker B: I made it back to plaque. Come watch me get trolled back out of it again. [00:01:42] Speaker C: Let's go. Nice. [00:01:45] Speaker A: We have, live from his own bedroom, Kangaskast. [00:01:49] Speaker D: I love how you say the major region preview, implying that. Cause we're talking LCK, LPL today. They're the only two major regions, which. There's a strong truth. There's a strong argument. [00:02:00] Speaker A: Well, we don't need to preview the real, you know, big guns of all this. We've been talking Lec and lcs all year. I mean, come top three region in the world, confirmed from worlds. Yes, it's true. We are. We know that. Just for LCS. Hey, the king of LPL. It's Mazelle. [00:02:19] Speaker E: Hello. I'm excited to talk about my region one day. [00:02:27] Speaker D: One day. [00:02:28] Speaker A: It's pretty good, but it's not, I think, as much fun as the king of LPL, in my mind, just throwing it out there. Tell the haters. Tell me if I'm wrong. Today we are also joined by a very special guest, who's here to talk all about his own region, the region he's covering as a caster. Please welcome, everyone ox to the rundown. [00:02:49] Speaker C: Hey. Yeah. Happy to be here. And I'm ready to downplay expectations of my region to ensure victory. That's the way. [00:02:57] Speaker A: Sandbagging. Interesting. [00:02:59] Speaker E: But since he used to be in the LPL, then he can also just use all that hype for. For the LPL itself, and then put too much. [00:03:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:09] Speaker E: Do you want it too much opium into the LPL? Yeah, exactly. [00:03:12] Speaker C: I don't know. It's kind of like, obviously, you know, you cast a region, like, when you cover year round, like the LCK, you obviously, you want to see them do well. But also, I'm a top esports fan, so I'm happy just to glaze them as well. You know, it is what it is. [00:03:27] Speaker A: Wow. [00:03:28] Speaker D: This is not how I expected this episode to start. But, you know, again, if we're trying to just, like, avoid jinxes, that make sense. Also, I just want to say, shout out to our patrons, who will all know, and I'll be able to shout or call out, ox, who agreed to drop an f bomb. As the first word said on the podcast and absolutely did not follow through on that. [00:03:47] Speaker C: There we go. Okay. [00:03:48] Speaker D: Better late than never. [00:03:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a little delayed. [00:03:51] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:03:52] Speaker A: The other problems have already been to. [00:03:54] Speaker C: Be pushed, you know? [00:03:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:03:56] Speaker C: Sorry is a big deal for me, so it's. I was a little bit nervous about that one. It's understood. [00:04:02] Speaker A: Well, we've, you know, ripped off the band aid. Now we're fucking ready to go and let's talk about stuff around the world. Yeah, that's right. I went there. Riot News final team is now qualified for MSI, the CB low. The brazilian league finals took place this past weekend between pain gaming and loud. And for the fourth consecutive international spot, it will be going yet again to pain. Sorry, not pain. It's loud. I got excited for pain, and then I realized it wasn't actually pain. [00:04:34] Speaker C: It was loud. Yeah, that was not great. [00:04:36] Speaker A: We're not going to talk about that one. [00:04:40] Speaker E: Somebody click 1 second. [00:04:43] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, that actually is also just a description off the fans, so. [00:04:47] Speaker A: It's true. [00:04:49] Speaker C: I mean. Sorry, laugh. [00:04:50] Speaker D: I mean, they lost. [00:04:52] Speaker E: It doesn't work. [00:04:54] Speaker C: LPL also concluded. [00:04:55] Speaker A: And in fact, one person here, spoiler it was Kangas, actually got to cast LPL. [00:05:01] Speaker C: Fine. What it's going on. [00:05:04] Speaker A: I just decided to fuck up everything. [00:05:06] Speaker C: Okay. I thought that might be a good idea. Consistency is good. [00:05:08] Speaker E: You have to go to Ireland, right? [00:05:10] Speaker D: No, because that's freaking awesome. That Mazelle got to cast his second. [00:05:16] Speaker C: LPL finals in a row. [00:05:18] Speaker E: Yeah, it was a. It was a great time. I got to go to the Riot Games remote broadcast center powered by AWS in Dublin. [00:05:26] Speaker A: We are not sponsored by any of. [00:05:29] Speaker E: No, but I actually have to say that that is what it's called. That is the name of the studio. [00:05:34] Speaker C: He will be shot if he doesn't. [00:05:36] Speaker E: I'm not joking. I'm not joking. It's like, literally a company wide thing that, like, we have to call it that. Anyways, they. They have a really cool studio there. We got to do the finals from there. It was a lot of fun. It was very short. And I'm back home ready to relax a little bit. But blG, you know, did some things. And my boy Shin won a title, a little trophy called the Silver Dragon cup. [00:06:03] Speaker A: Wow, is that really what's called the Silver Dragon cup? [00:06:06] Speaker C: Yep. [00:06:07] Speaker A: Is that just spring split? [00:06:09] Speaker C: Nope. Is it a different thing? [00:06:10] Speaker A: It's just a silver dragon. [00:06:11] Speaker E: It was rebranded two years ago. [00:06:14] Speaker A: Does anyone even know what the LCS trophy is called? Does it have a name? [00:06:19] Speaker E: I don't know. [00:06:20] Speaker D: The Gem. [00:06:22] Speaker B: The LCS Trophy. [00:06:23] Speaker C: Gem. [00:06:24] Speaker D: Gemothy. [00:06:26] Speaker A: Gemmothy. All right, we've named it. If anyone wants to know what the name of the LCS trophy is, they have to listen to this episode. Sorry, guys. [00:06:34] Speaker C: Let's move on. We've got other stuff to talk about. [00:06:35] Speaker A: MSI play ins are going to begin May 1, so MSI itself will begin basically a week from when you all are listening to this. We're hoping to put out one more episode before then that really covers play ins itself. Talks very specifically about the play in teams, both the major region teams, a little bit, but mostly focusing on the minor region teams who have to fight through this gauntlet just to get a shot at glory in the regular stage. Draw has already occurred. I'm going to give you guys just a bit of a rundown of that. We've got two groups, Group A and Group B. Group A is t one. That's right, skt t one k versus estral esports, the Latin America representative, and a best of three. On the other side of Group A, we've got Flyquest, the number two representative from North America, facing off against PCs's own PSG, who had to run their own gauntlet between multiple different regions to make it here in Group B, we've got another two best of three split. Top esports, the second seed out of China gets the pleasure of facing Brazil's loud, and we've got fnatic versus. You love them, you hate them, and they keep coming back. Gigabyte marines. No longer gigabyte marines. They're just gam now. But gigabyte Marines was such a better name. I don't know, by the way, what this team's really going to look like. They had substitutes in the VC's. I don't know if they're then keeping all of them for this. I don't know how the investigation has gone there. So just something to ponder over the next couple of weeks. For all of you fnatic fans, these best of threes all occur between the two teams, as I've already matched them up. Then the winners in each group face each other. The losers of the second round, or the first round will drop down into a losers bracket, and then it becomes a straight up gauntlet. You lose, you're out. You win, you advance. And I believe the winners of group A face the second seed of group B, and the winners of Group B face the second seed out of Group A. And the winners of those games advance to the general stage. Is that correct, Jax? Do you know I do not know. [00:08:45] Speaker B: If they swap them around, but four teams advance out of the first round. So I know that the winners of this first round will then face each other. Winner qualifies the losers bracket. I don't know if they're swapping teams from one side to the other or not. [00:09:04] Speaker D: Traditionally, the qualification matches will swap, but the other. [00:09:08] Speaker A: We'll talk more about it. We'll have more details next week. I kind of took a swing in the dark and then realized that, oh, fuck, it's riot. They change everything every year for MSI. And I could actually be a little bit. [00:09:18] Speaker B: And they don't tell us. [00:09:20] Speaker A: Yeah, they don't tell us. It's on a document somewhere that is hidden on little esports.com, the greatest website in the world. See, that's how you do a sponsorship plug, guys. [00:09:28] Speaker C: Even if you. [00:09:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I did every fiber of your being. [00:09:31] Speaker B: Last year, they did not swap groups. So for the qualifications. [00:09:38] Speaker A: So this year they will. [00:09:40] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. But last year, the losers bracket then played a best of five to qualify the last one slot. This year, there's. [00:09:49] Speaker C: Right. [00:09:50] Speaker A: Because we. We didn't have VC's there at all. So things are different now. No, they got knocked out immediately was a VC's. Wait, who was it? Why am I, like, so fucking lost? I don't want to talk. Moving on. Yeah, don't worry. [00:10:07] Speaker C: We're gonna talk way more combined and stuff. [00:10:09] Speaker B: Korea got stage automatically last year. [00:10:13] Speaker A: That's right. [00:10:14] Speaker C: But also, like, PCs and, like, OC and stuff. Like, they all combine and the LGL. So maybe. Maybe that's why. Like, different number of teams. [00:10:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:25] Speaker C: All right, well, we'll talk more about. [00:10:26] Speaker A: It next week when we have something more definitive and we get to really discuss the plans. But let's talk about other stuff. We got roster news really just focused here in the west. We've got the LEC specifically because we have confirmation here. There are tons of rumors already floating around, some of which are correct and some of which are incorrect from what I personally know. Here's a big one for you. Peter Dunn has announced that he's the head coach of team heretics. He didn't announce that, but that's what he is. He has announced that he and his partner are expecting a child sometime this year, and he is planning to step aside and pseudo retire at the end of the year to become a parent or to work in a different industry, etcetera afterwards, something a little bit more stable and something he doesn't have to commit so much of his time to. So that's a big announcement from a former consistent guest almost of the rundown. So really awesome congratulations to the both of them. Very, very cool for them. Other things that are actually set in stone. Giant X has announced that both Otoamne and Peach will no longer be starting for the LEC team. They have not determined exactly who is going to be playing for Peach, but we dig an announcement this morning that they are elevating the Antonio th three Antonio into the top lane role to replace Otuamne, who is now teamless Peach. There are some rumors about who will be replacing him, but nothing's really determined yet. And they did talk about there being tryouts and other things, but they said that for Oto Omni, too. And then like the next day they announced this guy for top lane. So whatever, who cares? That's really it. For everything we've got confirmed, we'll talk a lot more about all the other stuff as they pop up. I expect we'll see a lot and hear a lot during MSI, especially for the LEC teams who need to reconfigure very quickly if they want to have any hopes of making it to worlds based on the way their entire structure is in the schedule and all that crazy stuff with three splits, that's it. If you want to chat about this, if you want to talk about how much I fucked up the explanation for plans, if you want to really get mad at Ox for not running in here with an f bomb to start off the entire episode, best place to do it. The best place for all of your complaints are in the community discord. Come join us. We're going to talk a lot during this MSI, one of the two big international competitions that's happening this year. Very exciting that it's coming up so quickly. It's my last tournament here on the rundown, so if you are not coming in there and yelling at me after every single game, I'm going to be upset. There, I said it. And to all of our patrons on Patreon, thank you guys so much. Your support is a big reason and actually the only reason why the show continues. So thank you, thank you, thank you. We love you. And we'll continue to push out really quality content week after week, right, Steve? Yes, quality the most. It's gonna be good stuff, guys. All right. [00:13:14] Speaker C: We will miss you. That's all. [00:13:15] Speaker A: We're done with that now. Don't worry about it. We're done with that. Let's talk about what we're actually here to talk about. We've got two experts on the show tonight in their specific regions, in what some people would call the two best regions in the world. Not me, but some people would say that, of course, Mazelle, fresh off of a cast of the LPL finals, going to be talking about the two representatives from China, and ox as well. Caster, straight out of the LCK, gonna, I guess, sort of rep his teams, although it sounds like you're more of a top esports fan right now. [00:13:48] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, I obviously covered the LPL for a while, and top esports kind of just, you know, Jackie Love in particular. Kind of just a team that has my heart, even though, obviously you'll hear later on, you know, some of my thoughts about this team. It's definitely a heart love, not a brain love when it comes to them. You know, it's one of these things where you have to suffer a little bit when you're watching your favorite team. I feel like that's inevitable. [00:14:12] Speaker A: It's true. You are preaching to the choir here, but let's start with the LPL. Speaking of Mazelle, you've got two teams. They're coming out of China. We've got top esports aforementioned, the winners, not necessarily of the LPL split, but specifically of Ox's heart. And you've got Billy. Billy gaming a slightly retooled team, basically just stealing the best mid laner in the league from the team they could not defeat for an entire calendar year, and then they just wipe out the rest of the LPL. Talk to me, first of all, about the second seed. Let's focus on top esports. [00:14:51] Speaker C: Then we'll get to Bilibili. [00:14:53] Speaker A: What the fuck is a top esport? Who's on this team? Short journey of how they got here and your expectations. [00:15:02] Speaker E: So going into it, they were one of the better early to mid game teams. The thing about the LPL is, like, the level at all times is high, but teams are specifically good at certain things. And I think top esports and BLG were very similar in a way that they very much thrive off of early game leads. But one of the difference makers for top esports was their mid game decision making, especially towards the end of playoffs. The way they played around tempo and especially, like Tien, finding mid game ganks was very, very good. And I feel like even though there's a lot of big names in 369 had come back for the first time in years to the original team that he made his name on, it is the first time they're going to MSI. As an organization, and I think it was tough to get here. They took down a lot of teams that were very much playing towards later game, and they just couldn't hang. But the reason why they lost in finals is because BLG are just a better version of what they thrive with. So I think going into MSI, it's gonna be a little bit different, but they primarily play through those mid game tempo matchups. Mako connecting with Tien, because Mako is finally with a veteran ADC once again, and Jackie Love has a veteran support for the first time in, like four years. And 369 is probably one of the best top laners in the entire world, let alone the league they do have. It's pretty much by my running joke, the entire time in finals was it's four goats and a young in, because it's cream's first time on another organization not known as, call it four goats. [00:16:59] Speaker A: And a kid, because a baby goat is called a kid. [00:17:03] Speaker C: Ooh. [00:17:03] Speaker A: But he's not a kid, but he's a young. [00:17:07] Speaker E: I mean, no, I'm, you know, just. [00:17:10] Speaker A: Throwing it out there. Don't. [00:17:11] Speaker C: Don't take my ideas. [00:17:11] Speaker D: Don't take my ideas. [00:17:14] Speaker E: The thing is that's going to be really interesting is they tried to take some late game adaptations into BLG in the finals, and it didn't really work for them, but maybe instead, other teams in other regions that could work, but really much looking at Tien being aggressive early, being on picks like Lee Sands, poppies, things like that, playing through Bot Lane, if it's either mako roaming outside of that lane, or playing through Jackie love getting advantages that way, that's typically how they play and how they win. [00:17:48] Speaker A: Expectations. What do you think? [00:17:54] Speaker E: Like, quarterfinals, semifinals. [00:17:56] Speaker D: Okay. [00:17:58] Speaker A: Quarter finals, semifinals. [00:18:00] Speaker C: Okay. [00:18:01] Speaker A: That high? [00:18:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:02] Speaker A: Who do they fall to? [00:18:04] Speaker E: I think they'd fall to probably ginger t one. [00:18:08] Speaker A: Okay. Is there something they just showed that. [00:18:11] Speaker E: They couldn't adapt fast enough in the playoffs. And again, the problem with CES is they are very good at this style, but besides that, like, they can falter a lot of times. And they had a track record of failing in finals. I mean, Tien was one in four going into it. Now he's one in five. Jackie Love is very similar to that. But I wonder what happens when they've had a little bit of time in a new patch and everything to go in MSI. [00:18:41] Speaker C: Okay. Okay. [00:18:43] Speaker A: Ox, have you been paying attention to top esports? [00:18:45] Speaker C: You have anything you want to add? Decent amount, you know, catch them while I can. I mean, I feel like I, you know, I don't disagree with anything Mazel said. I'm just so hyped that, like, Jackie Love, I feel like for his entire career, has been paired with support to. I wouldn't say anything. We're world class, right. And I feel like, finally paired with Mako, it's like you have, like, an actual world class support paired with him. So it's. Even though, you know, they didn't win this this season, even though expectations aren't super high on them for MSI relative to, like, the fact they are an LPL team, I still just think it's hype seeing Jackie Love and Mako together as a duo. And 369, you know, I rate super high, so. [00:19:21] Speaker E: And can I just say, mako is insane this year. [00:19:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:25] Speaker E: Like, he is nutty. [00:19:27] Speaker C: And I just think it's. They're an exciting team to watch. I mean, so many iterations of top speed esports have always been exciting to watch, but I just feel like that they're definitely, like a. You know, there are some teams who have been, like, very good, but, you know, they don't. They don't do, like, chaotic league legends, like, really sells you on them. It's, like, clean. It's, like, coordinate. It's like, okay, we're gonna win the game doing this. It's not gonna be too glamorous, but it works. I feel like top esports are, you know, they get stuck in the mud, and it's just enjoyable every time. [00:19:58] Speaker D: Those are the favorite teams to watch. [00:20:00] Speaker E: You know, they really like to flip. Barons. They will literally just force you, Baron, and go 50 50. [00:20:06] Speaker D: Hell, yeah. [00:20:07] Speaker A: Wait. [00:20:08] Speaker C: I mean, that game, baby. Yeah. Mm. We love that. [00:20:12] Speaker A: That's na. All right, talk to me about Billy. Billy Gaiman. [00:20:17] Speaker C: Because you. [00:20:18] Speaker A: I think you in particular, Mazel, were pretty hype on them last year, but you knew that they were going to fall short, and they did. Was it just the night edition? Is that all they needed? [00:20:27] Speaker E: I think it just enables a lot of their playstyle. Again, I said that these two teams were very similar because they both play off of early game advantages, but primarily playing through bot lane for that. And the difference, I think, has been this split. Specifically, they mechanically are just better, and knight is a very aggressive mid laner. More so than kind of that supportive or I guess, in some ways, very much more active than Yagao was. And I think with Shun being so aggressive, then leaning towards this kind of style of, like, the vies, things like that, and even going towards the kindreds where you need a lot of priority in lane. It was a perfect connection. And on, on top of that, kind of like what Mako has been doing for top esports on has been doing maybe even twofold for BLG. His mobility, the variation and picks that he's able to have, the not only two v two presence with Elk, but also his ability to kind of meet up with Shun has been huge. And I think night sometimes actually takes quieter role on this team. And I think we saw it in finals where the main game plan was played around Chun Elk and on. It was their first time they've ever won a finals. And the fact that you can have more facilitators, more role players for Ben and night, but then they are still the gods that they are in their lanes, I think is so, so important to think about. And that is why this team gets so scary, because they will just take a lead sub eight minutes and win the game by 1520 minutes if you let them. And you have to be able to tempo play, you have to be able to meet objectives, you have to be able to team fight, and you have to be able to scrap. And I think that's really difficult. And I am very much looking forward to an improved version of the BLG we've seen kind of growing over this last. [00:22:25] Speaker A: You think they're going to adapt well to the, the patch? [00:22:28] Speaker E: Yeah, I think so. I think Ben especially, he's been very, very confident. He's been very flexible. This split. Um, he even like, he literally, he was six and twelve in best of against three six nine. We had a stat. I don't. We had this huge running stat. Sh Tien was a seven and one negatively against shun. Like shouldn't won seven out of eight times against Tien when they faced off in best. But 369 had been his number for so long. JDG had blg's number for so long. And they came over all of that, right. They finally beat them in a best of this year. They been finally beat three six nine in the best of five in in a lot of ways. Being able to kind of control three six nine or three six nine has had bins number in the past. It feels like BLG have learned a lot from that last year from all the bumps and bruises they've gotten and have tooled their strategy. The question is, is that going to be the dominant strategy? Is it going to be smash early game, take early objectives, continue to roll that tempo and win the game? Or is it going to be a late game scaling at meta that we have. And is LCK going to take over? [00:23:42] Speaker D: Do we know much about what the patch is going to be? I assume we know the patch. [00:23:45] Speaker C: I just. [00:23:45] Speaker D: I don't know offhand. [00:23:46] Speaker E: It's 14 eight, I thought, or 14 six. One of those. [00:23:49] Speaker C: 214, 814. [00:23:50] Speaker E: It is 14. So it's the current patch right now. [00:23:53] Speaker C: Yeah, there's a few tweaks, like Rek'sai top lane. Rek'sai got nerfed quite hard because his healing, like his fear healing here, fury stacking off waves, got nerfed pretty heavily. So, like, there's some, like, big changes like that because obviously she was such a strong pick in the meta. But overall, when you look across the board, generally there's not that much like they, they moved grubs back a minute. Like nerfed Zeri, she lost 30. Health. [00:24:21] Speaker E: Did you have any thoughts on elg at all? [00:24:24] Speaker C: Ox? I mean, I think. I think, honestly, from what I've seen, I think everyone's expectations, like bin and I, is such a strong solo lane pairing. But like Elkanon are currently best bot lane in the world. [00:24:40] Speaker A: They were so good. [00:24:42] Speaker C: And I think that is just so scary to deal with when, when, like, as you said, like when a big focal point of the team is how strong the bot lane is and how shun pairs up with it. And then you have night and bin, you know, like the fact that they're like the add ons. Oh, and you have night and bin in the solo lanes is kind of like, okay, well, it's problematic. You know, I will say that, like, compared to last year, I think the thing with JDG is obviously JDG was a really strong roster. But also, like, at MSI, the meta hit just right. And this whole rule on these hyper carries, when you had the tank tops, 369, last MSI, best top player in the world in my opinion. He was so good on tanks. It was team fighting jungles for Kanavi as well. I think it was scary. JDG then was scarier just because of how right the meta was for them. But I think BLG also looks super scary right now in terms of how strong they are. But again, it comes down to, I think with any international tournament, it's how much the meta aligns with the team. I think this was less true for MSI when it was just one LCK, one LPL team, but now there's more. I think it does come a bit down more to how your identity sort of aligns with what the patch ends up being. So I think there's, like, going into last MSi, I was like, man, JDG just look absolutely unstoppable with how the patch is playing out. I'm like, nah, it's a roughy toughie. But I think blg, it's not as locked in, but they definitely look like the team to beat right now, in my opinion. Hmm. [00:26:10] Speaker A: Did the patch touch much of the lane swap stuff? [00:26:17] Speaker C: Not really. Like, the only thing they did. So they moved the void grub spawn back a minute, and that that was something that they did in an attempt to curb it, because I guess if you're swapping to try and get, like, more favorable lane matchups and you're swapping back and forth to try and match them, like, you can no longer just trade off void grubs and dragon because they're spawning the exact same, same time. I don't know how much it's actually gonna come into play. I feel like if there's a scenario where you have rough lane matchups, top a bot, and you think you can get better out of it, lane stopping, are you gonna be really upset that you don't get void grubs as a result, or is it even gonna be that woman of time? Are gonna be enough to stop you getting at least one void grub? Because the main thing is you get one for XP. I don't. I'm not really sure. We'll have to see how it plays out. I feel like any system changes, it's hard to scope out without seeing, like, pro play on the patch. I will say that though, they also buffed the. The void grubs themself. So you get. You get, like, the little spawn at four instead of five. And the dot damage on towers, they actually buffed quite a bit. So I feel like void grubs was kind of this objective where junglers were like, yo, I want one void grub. Cause it counts as a camp, and that's, like, kind of the limit of it. Like, you never really felt it that much. But now, if you get, like, six void grubs or, like, higher end stacks, like, the burn is actually significant. And especially if you have someone who's, like, a side lane threat, like TF obviously was during playoffs, it can. He can really. I mean, he could already shred towers, but now, like, I mean, even just like, you know, if you win a team fight and it's an ace and they have, like, tier two mid up, you can just plow through before they respawn, like, past like, 28 minutes or something, just if you have all the burn. Cause even a champion like Sejuani, who obviously Sejuani is like, the sort of peak, I don't kill towers quickly champion. The amount of true damage she gets just from autoing a tower is kind of insane. [00:28:03] Speaker A: Mm mm. Well, we're gonna see how it goes. [00:28:08] Speaker D: The change from the, you know, getting five void grubs to four was like, a big change. Like, that was one. I didn't even hear about that one until I started watching the combines. Cause I didn't read the patch notes. I was like, wait, why are they spotting void grubs when they only have four? I was like, oh, wait, that's actually a huge change because that was, like, the whole thing of how do you balance when to go for grubs versus stacking dragons? It felt like it was more on, oh, dragons are more valuable. But now that you can, like, if you get the first three void grubs uncontested, you're almost guaranteed to spawn them, because all you have to do is show up and smite one of the other grubs away from your opponent. So I feel that teams that have strong side laners that can draft strong side laners and utilize that side push are going to be very, very comfortable and in a good spot. This MSI. [00:28:56] Speaker E: Ben, my boy. [00:28:59] Speaker A: It could also. I mean, you throw the lane swap into that, and it could really confuse a lot of things, too, because if. Yeah, you might have a strong side laner, but if he's one v two, not really a strong side laner in the same way yet he won't be for a little while. So I don't know if a minute. Oh, what's the time that it spawns now? Is it seven minutes, six minutes. And when is first Drake? [00:29:22] Speaker B: Five. [00:29:22] Speaker C: Five minutes. Five. [00:29:24] Speaker A: Okay, so there's. It's, like, right in the middle of that if someone gets first Drake. But I don't think there's a ton of people who are rushing Drake at five minutes. So maybe we get a little bit of a map split because of that. I don't know. It's gonna be interesting, certainly, to see. I don't know how much we're gonna see in the play ins. I do expect teams that missed the boat in actually running this in their own leagues, specifically North America, to try it. They've got the opportunity to against teams that shouldn't be able to function very well against it. So we'll get that Flyquest PSG match and seeing if Flyquest is going to try to pull it off and I don't think it's going away. So I do think that's going to change some things, whether for good or for bad, for different strengths and weaknesses of this team. I don't know. All right, any other thoughts on LPL? Kangas, what do you think about LPL? [00:30:14] Speaker D: I think that in general we still, like, I'm still of the belief that LPL teams play a little faster than LCK teams. And with the changes to the grubs, I think that any team that has that strong topside is one of the favorites to win. I really value strong top lane in the the current meta here. So I think that Billy, Billy would probably be my favorite to go in, but I'm down to hear LCK arguments and why that could be wrong. [00:30:43] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great transition. But before we throw it to ox, I just want to say for everyone out there who hears complaints from us and others about Lucianami, go watch. Was it game one, LPO? [00:30:56] Speaker C: Yep. [00:30:56] Speaker A: Was that right? [00:30:57] Speaker C: Mazel. [00:30:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Game one Elk's Lucian demonstrated how you need to play this champ to make it effective, and it was fucking insane how much he got done. So watch the first 20 minutes. Yeah. And playing it completely to the limit without overstepping. Really, really well done. [00:31:17] Speaker C: I feel like honestly with that just quickly, like, Lucianami has been like, despite the fact we've had in the meta so long, I feel like it's been one of, like, the most misunderstood duos. I remember when it first came around, everyone was like, dude, lucian army is so good because it wins lane so hard. And if you lose lane on Lucian army, it's completely useless. Or if you go even and I just feel like that was spread a lot or that was a sentiment from fans and it wasn't further from the truth. And especially at the time when the one night with Spike, with Galeforce was so strong, it was like, yeah, you even saw this transition. This is kind of reminiscent of ardent times where Nami wouldn't buy boots, you'd go, magical footwear, you wouldn't buy control wards. Maybe one, you know, which is rare for like, pro supports. And you're like, I need mandate ASAP, right? I want that immediately. And the one item spike was so insane. And you could just play around mid and like, take mid prior, no one could walk up. But I still, for such a long time I kept hearing this sentiment from people who are like, why you pick Lucianami and then you lose Lane? Like, what is the point of it? And I feel like it's also like a part of it was. It's also like a very finesse duo. And we kind of saw that from elk, like him having insane levels of finesse with how he piloted. But that's really a great example, the peak of what the duo can do. But I think for such a long time, people were so critical of it because they'd see teams struggle with it or they'd see teams not be able to pull that off or they'd see teams play incorrectly in lane as well. I think another factor of it was the all in was very weak in the early two V two. You'd get that mindset where you're playing lucian army, right? The Lucian dashes in, he does a full combo and then it's like, oh, my God, look how good this combo is. Let's kill them. But then you have no cooldowns and you're just like Lucian, just right clicking is very awkward and I think teams often made that mistake. So it's definitely a very controversial duo. But I think, yeah, it was very much misunderstood. So people should for sure look at Elk is knowing what he's doing. He's playing around that mid game spike very hard and really getting a ton of value from it. Yeah. [00:33:12] Speaker A: All right. With that, I'm going to borrow the term you used, all this glazing of the LPL teams. Ox, I think it's your turn. You've got the ox cord. Talk to me about the LCK. I'm sure you've never heard that one before, right? [00:33:27] Speaker C: No, that's a fist. Yeah. That was really new and imaginative. So credit to that. Talk to me about the LCk. [00:33:34] Speaker A: Start with the second team. Obviously sktt one k fell short yet again against Chovy and the Chauvettes. Talk to me about how they got here, what they looked like, what they were strong at, and your expectations. [00:33:48] Speaker C: Yeah. So I think a lot of people, the expectation for t one was kind of sky high given the fact that they did just win world and they retained the roster going into spring. The hope for a lot of fans was finally they can break the win streak of Gen G who have kind of just had their number domestically constantly. And given the fact that we saw the other top teams roster change, Gen G lost a lot of their pieces. Obviously they brought the hands back, so that's not a bigger thing. But Keenan Canyon coming in, the thought process is very much okay. You kept the roster the same. You just won worlds. You're a very strong team. Surely you're going to be smooth sailing domestically. And there were some background issues. I've once seen the interview with Fake after the Hunt wife esports series saying how, you know, they were getting ddos, they've had struggle practicing, but even beyond that, it feels like they never felt like the number one team in the league. They were definitely doing really well, don't get me wrong, but Gen G always felt during the regular season on top, there was a period where Hunter Life esports started to look like they would be the second best team. A lot of jokes about Hun wife esports having three fifths of last year's Gen G roster, and it was like, how many Gen G players do you need to beat t one? Like, are we going to see teams like, oh, you know, is two Gen G players enough to beat them? You know, Chovy counts as two, so that's why original Gen G has three. But yeah, I think we definitely still saw some really solid performances from them. I think with the LCK, like, the difference between the top teams and, like, the lower end teams is very stark. I feel like with the LPL, because of 17 teams, you know, you have such a range and because it's single round robin, you see, like, matchups against between them less frequently. But t one still looked very solid. And then coming into playhouse, I think the big storyline was them getting three zero'd by Hanwha esports, where they kind of just got annihilated. And especially because a big thing, what we kind of had this season is obviously Kerrier was playing all of those picks, things like playing Klista support. We saw a lot of Senna plus Tom typically, but other picks as well, where it was kind of giving gold to carry it, and it would have been a big mistake. Faker has carried on, like, really solid form, I think, for a long time. Faker is kind of viewed as, okay, he's got the brains, but he's not like, quite like the OG. I'm the one v nine carry faker, but I feel like since last world, his individual form has been really good. And then Zeus. Zeus kind of had an interesting split because he's like number one for isolated deaths, but it was kind of like he just play Aatrox. Like pretty much every game. The enemy team would focus him top, he'd go zero two, and then he'd come in a team fight, and he'd like, dash on someone, he'd auto and ADC, and then he'd use profane Hydra, and they would just die. Cause Aatrox is a bit ridiculous, but, yeah, you know, the team did look good. I feel like obviously last summer, there were all the issues with Faker going, having an injury, and stepping out for a bit, which obviously made things look a little bit worse. But I think the Hololife esports series was a big challenge for them. Delight got Nautilus three games in a row, and I remember the time, like, late end of playoffs because they lost 100 life in the second round robin. They lost to gen g second round robin, and then they lost 100 life esports. And it was kind of like, something really seems amiss, and I think something that stood out to me from last worlds was t one said, like, they reevaluated the draft priority. I remember the time, like, everyone was playing like Alistair all the time, and then people were picking renata, and it was like, bro, there's nothing I can do. There's no counterplay. I pick an engage champion, and they pick Ronaldo. What can I do? And then t one were like, you know what? We can not pick engaged champions. [00:37:16] Speaker A: Incredible. [00:37:17] Speaker C: It's so smart. Just pioneering coma brain. [00:37:19] Speaker A: Man, that's wild. [00:37:21] Speaker C: And then I feel like something that kind of felt like they needed to reevaluate the draft a bit, because, again, like, into homo life esports. Homo life esports were really good, but it definitely felt like there was, like, giving over the Nautilus three games was a massive mistake. And we kind of saw Kerry are playing more traditional engage picks in some of these high stage matches, like the Nautilus and rakam, which it picks like, he's plenty good at, but it definitely felt like they had lent more towards him on sort of more like, if you look at, like, the champions who played the split, like, a lot more pocket picks, like, not even specific to him, but, like, picks like rumble or, like, Kalista support or, like, playing the son of Tom, where it's like this more felt like them utilizing his strengths. So it's definitely been a, like, a bit here and there over the course of season. And then the finals, you know, was super close against Gen G, and that was hype. You know, it's the first five game finals in the LCK since 2018, which is kind of insane. Wow. [00:38:19] Speaker D: Yeah, that's. [00:38:20] Speaker A: I didn't know that. That's insane. [00:38:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:23] Speaker A: And we've had some incredible. Specifically just looking at mid lane matchups since then, and yet none of them have gone to five games. That's crazy. [00:38:31] Speaker C: Yeah. And the fact that Gen G have just been winning again and again, again, the fact they managed to bring it out again here when it was down to the wire is kind of just nuts. But I think the fact that t one made it so close is, like, promising because I think, like last summer they kind of just got absolutely rolled in the finals, but then they went on to win world. So it's like, you know, the takeaway is domestic results don't always translate to international results. And I think the big thing is that Gen G consistently, especially when you think about the fact that, like, yes, gen G lost peanut, but they got the hands back. Gen G kind of just feels like they have t one pretty solved when it comes to matchups with them. I think a lot of people always think about tier list being like, okay, this team's the best, so they beat all the teams below them equally, or like, you know, they're this much better than the a teams, this much better than the B teams. But I think, like, it's obviously harder to pin down, like, exactly how they're gonna play out. But, like, in terms of stylistic matchups or like how a team have read another team, I think Gen G have a very stable read on t one and I think that really helps them out whenever they match up against each other. [00:39:32] Speaker A: Yeah, amen to that. It's been four straight finals of me being annoyed by how terrible t one looks because Gen G just reads it. Feels like everything about them, draft onwards, macro play on the map, everything. They're so good against t one, and then they face someone else at worlds or msi, they collapse. Gen G can't actually make it happen. What do you think about t one? Is t one at this level? You already talked about how, you know, this is so similar to t one s of the past. Struggle a little bit, pick it up in playoffs, still lose to Gen G in the final, but that was a great formula in 2023. Do you think it's a good enough team in the moment to win the whole thing? What are your expectations? [00:40:19] Speaker C: I think the thing with t one is, it sounds very cliche, but you can never really count them out. I feel like they're a team who are able to reevaluate well, and their form in internationals tends to ramp up. I think the player, obviously, they just won wills. The player quality is definitely there. They beat JDG, who looked completely unstoppable. So I think there's like, the expectation is this team can 100% win, win MSI. That's the. There's no doubt in my mind. Whether they will or not is another question. You know, there is some hard opposition, but ultimately, I just feel like it kind of depends how they play their game and how they match up in the other teams. I think, obviously, Gen G is a rough matchup for them, but they have shown they can overcome them in internationals. It depends how the patch plays out, things like that. Yeah, I think it's always hard to place this team because there's been countless times where even, like, I remember last summer they came in. I think they're, like, fifth or 6th when they came into. I think they were 6th when they came into playoffs. Right. Because they'd. They'd lost a bunch of games that fake looked really rough. And then they ended up getting. They beat D plus, so they got picked by KT and they beat KT, and it was kinda. Yeah, they kind of just put it out there. And I think as well, like, going in a world they weren't. The team with the highest expectations went on to end up winning to winning world. So I think, you know, fans have a lot of faith in this team. You should have a lot of faith in this team that they are going to perform, that they are going to step up. And I also think that a lot of people talk about the lck style of play being more, like, slow, more moderate. Historically, that's definitely been the case. But I think this iteration of t one is kind of more akin to top esports. Been a very exciting team to watch. The 50 50 baron thing that mazel was saying, that was t one in a nutshell. We've had so many t one barons, and it was a. For years, it was a thing in finals where for, like, all the gen g wins were like, okay, we're gonna control them. We're gonna shut them down. You ain't gonna get the play of the game. You're gonna be choked out. And then the t one games were like, look, I have something in this hat. It's a rabbit. You know, it just kinda felt like they pulled 20 minutes. Time for Baron. Flip legit. Let's go. There was one where they ended up burning. I think it was keen's TP. And they had. Kerri was on orn, they were playing Santa Orn. So they had double smite because he went spell book and switched to smite, and they burn the tp, and they're just like, where's the star baron jungler got in the pit. Doesn't matter. We've practiced these double smites. Like, they've done this so often. We secure the baron, and what. And I just feel like I'm also interested because they buffed Baron damage. I'm like, I feel like that adds, like, a level of spiciness to the whole equation because I don't know if anyone's managed to play with the new baron, but it hurts. So definitely makes that even more volatile, which I just think is exciting because I think there's, like, two sides to the t one Baron. Like, in playoffs, everyone, I saw a lot of public sentiment, like, damn, t one's baron setups are so insane, so good. But I've also seen times, especially internationally, they flopped. And everyone's like, why do they keep starting Baron? And it's just because it's in their nature, okay? They're just born to do it. [00:43:25] Speaker B: I can't wait to see the Baron flips with the new Baron. That does, like, twice as much damage with all of his special abilities. Just absolutely fucking someone over. [00:43:36] Speaker C: Born. [00:43:36] Speaker D: Just Baron flip forced to lane swap. [00:43:38] Speaker C: Man. [00:43:38] Speaker D: I can't believe it. [00:43:40] Speaker C: I think as well, what's funny is the amount of times have you ever watched pro teams doing Baron? I feel like the Baron abilities especially, they obviously changed them, but even before, I feel like a lot of players, like, they won't even pay attention to the Baron. [00:43:52] Speaker A: They don't care. [00:43:53] Speaker C: And I've seen. I've seen situations where, like, an ad carry has gotten knocked up by the Baron, and as a result, they lost out on DP's and the enemy jungler got there to steal. And I feel like that's how bad it is sometimes. So I just think it's funny that, like, these abilities that they're probably used to doing, like, hey, you know, it doesn't do that much damage now do so much like, it really fucking hits. And these teams, I wonder, like, how many you're gonna be. Just caught off guard, like, oh, snap. I, you know, I didn't respect this ability. I just lost so much hp outgam then, you know, I think it's gonna be hilarious. [00:44:25] Speaker A: I'm looking forward to any sort of chaos. But this other team, at least in the LCK, has been pretty much anything but chaotic. For four straight splits, they've been dominant kings of Korea, beaten everyone in front of them, walked out of there in international competition. Like I said before, gen G has fallen short. Talk to me about Gen G. Is this a different Gen G than we've seen before? And does that change your expectations for them? This mSi? [00:44:54] Speaker C: I think it's hard to place. A lot of people always look at, they kind of think, like, you know, chovy's a choker. Chovy at internationals doesn't show up. I feel like, honestly, the truth is, like, the team is a hole, didn't show up. And Chovy, if the game is going badly, kind of. It just. It's hard to make plays. You'll still farm up a storm. You'll still end up trying to be, like, as effective as possible. But it definitely felt people, like, labeled on him. But it's more team wide issue. I think a big change is Canyon coming in for peanut because I think peanut was maybe one of the players who especially recently was underperforming internationals. Canyon's been very stable there, but then the hands and keen have sometimes underperformed. It's hard to place, and that stigma is definitely going to be on them. And I think if they start struggling, there might be, like, a quick reminder. Oh, yeah, guys, remember with the team who struggles at internationals, but ultimately, in terms of their form, I think Chovy in particular has looked, like, insane. And I don't like often saying this in general. I mean, I know earlier I said Elkanan are the best bolt in the world, but I tend to avoid making statements like this before. Like, we actually see them go head to head. But I think Chovy is best player in the world right now. In his current form, he has looked absolutely insane. And I think we've had examples where, like, when he went up. When they went up against Hololife Esports, that was a 30 for Hanoi Ferts. If it wasn't for Chovy, they won three one. And he literally just like, you know, I feel like this series that I'm reminded of is that t one series against RNG, when fake was on Galio and he just dragged his team's corpses over the line, it felt like that he was just off the chain insane. And I think ultimately, if Chovy maintains that form, he's obviously gonna be a force to reckon with. But the caveat to that is also, why did he have to do that? You know, why did he have to play so well that he needed to literally have, like, a 13 out of ten performance for them to win? And I think ultimately, the bot lane has looked pretty rough. I think in terms of, like, their two v two has looked a bit underwhelming pays. His positioning, that was something like with pais. He's obviously pretty new. When he came onto the roster, it was like, okay, his laning's not 100%, but if you get him to teamfights, he'll carry. He'll do his job. They give him gold. It works. It's the Gen G way. It feels like Peis and Lahens have really started to have some issues and especially cause I feel like delight was a stronger laning support. Lahens is more what he can do on the map generally is like how people attribute them. They've struggled and I think when you look at the bot lanes at this tournament, Guma carrier, obviously they can be very problematic. But you know, they have played against t one a lot. They know that. But Elkanon, Jacqueline Mako, that is where their weakness is really standing out to me. And Pais had a really bad playoffs. It was not good. So that's given me some concern. I'd say in terms of Gen G style, overall competitive one, they are a much more like controlled team. I think the kind of textbook way they like to play. I mean, Keane can play carries, but one thing is if Keen's playing carries, then it's kind of difficult to because Chovy doesn't need attention. Chovy's fine, but you kind of need attention towards either keen if he's on carries or pays in the hands on the bot side. So I think they've kind of like moved more into like keen on tanks like Rek'sai or Kissante means you can put more attention bot and the general, I think Gen G, the way they play out the game, it's kind of like TF passive, right. It kind of feels like they're cheating and they just get more gold than you. And this is always a thing with Chovy where Chovy would have like insane CS numbers. But you will track a game where it feels like, you know, maybe not much is happening and you'll just see the CS advantages build up and you'll just, you'll look away from it and you'll look back and you'll be like, how? How do they have this much farm? [00:48:23] Speaker D: What happened? [00:48:24] Speaker A: It's something that you can see in the LCK finals specifically where it looked, for all intents and purposes that t one was winning. And then you'd look at the gold and you'd be like, what the fuck? [00:48:36] Speaker C: It's the same. [00:48:37] Speaker A: Yeah, nevermind. [00:48:38] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think it's so difficult to deal with, especially cause I feel like the other three teams do lean more into making early game advantages. If you fumble, if you make a mistake, if you have a buff of 8000 gold, you make a mistake. You're still probably winning the game, but you don't have that luxury against this team, especially because we've seen Chovy lean on a lot of these more scaling mid laners, like the Azir, the Aurelion Sol, like the Corki, you give them a little bit of a window and they'll just take so much. And I feel like Canyon also is a jungler who has always been praised for being pretty intelligent with his pathing. So, if we see Shun, a tendency that we saw from Shun last MSI was to like, direct a lot of attention towards bot lane Elite dives. This is something, you know, he's continued in this iteration of the roster with Knight added. So, if you like, fumble a dive bot lane, or you don't get as much as you think you would like, you will lose out. You will get punished for that. And I think it's pretty frustrating to play against them. Especially, I think a good example of that in the finals where they had this like three lane rotation where top lane was bouncing out from Zayas, so they sent bot lane there. They killed Zayus because the wave was on a bounce out. He didn't expect to face two people. They then moved Chovy bot Lane to catch the wave because being a ranged champion, obviously he was on Corki, he could do that easily. And then they sent keen mid on rumble where he could just clean up a wave without being in a one v two. And it was just like this, heads up, like such a quick read, such a reorient orientation where everyone was on the map, and then they like, moved it back to where they want the lane setups to be after that. But it was just like, for that brief moment, they got such. It's one of these things where people say a kill and they think, oh, kill's worth this much, but, like, the consequence of everything else. And sometimes, like, you get a kill, but it's like, okay, but you miss out on this, on the bot lane or miss out on this. They just like, didn't give t one anything. They were like, no, no, no. We take what we want, you get absolutely nothing. And I think in terms of, you know, how they play the map, their lane setups, their lane assignments. Genji are like a really intelligent team in that regard. And I think when we look at like, I mean, one thing that it's nice is that they're not in planes, because I think if you want scrappy, fun games, that's definitely t one. But, but I think if Gen G win players, I think in terms of outside of the LCK and LPL teams, honestly, even outside of Blg. I think it's really hard to see a team upsetting them. I think it's a really hard ask just because how stable the game is typically. And it's kind of the thing where I could see t one getting stuck in the mud against even a team who are in play ins. I think even against loud, we could see a chaotic game that gets a bit messy. T one is still going to win, but, like, I don't even think it gets that. I feel like Gen G, it would be a complete perfect game. Borderline blowout. Yeah. And they don't even get to play the game. Hmm. [00:51:20] Speaker D: Interesting. Yeah, I mean, that. That is, I didn't watch a lot lZk, but the finals did feel that way, so I do echo that sentiment. Do you think that that's going to hold up against the Billy Billy's, though? Like, the top esports, you think LPL has a chance of making things funky enough in the early game? Gen G, it's uncomfortable. Or do you not even see a world and you think that it will still come down to, like, a mid late game where you probably relatively even. Even if you've had a bloody early game? [00:51:48] Speaker C: I think it's hard to ask for top esports. Like, maybe, like, I definitely could see top esports taking the game, but I feel like for a full series, it's going to be difficult. I think a big problem as well is I feel like the weakness for me for top esports is the mid jungle cream has been really solid, but he's not nightmare. And I think if you don't have, like, even like, like, faker's form has been really good, as I said, since last world, and I feel like him being there is, like, just enough that you don't auto lose against Chovy because, like, you know, I'm going to. I'm going to go with that. I'm going to glaze him. But, like, I think if your mid lane is not just playing at a high enough level, you just, like, you just lose against Chovy. And even Faker had issues. Like, he will take matchups where, like, there was a corky Orianna where, like, it should be favorable for the Orianna and show me is like, no, I'm going to come up ahead and farm. I'm going to actually find opportunities to out trade you and stuff like that. He is really just playing on another level. So I think top esports is a bad matchup for them. I think BlG is the other way around, though. I think Knight is that guy that can actually hold up against Chovy. As I said, I think Trovie's in better form, but I think Knight is a player who can match that peak and also just his general form is exceptional. I think being in the top lane can be a threat. You know, if we see Keaney put on tank duty, that's something they can definitely punish. And I think the big issue for me though is elk on Shun elk and on in particular. I think the two v two advantage they have of paisleyns is huge. And if Shun is able to continue what he's been able to do and like, really allocate his efforts down there, I could see them bleeding out from bot lane. And the thing is, like I've said, gen G are like super good at controlling the game, suffocating, but they don't have the same ability to pull a win out of the hat as t one do. So if you put them behind, I think they will. Like, the thing with t one is they can be down 6000 gold and you're still like. And it's not that Genji can't come back, but, like, Genji aren't just going to randomly send a baron and flip the entire game on the head and then somehow pull it out and question like, were they even ever losing? So I think that matchup in particular is rough for them and I hope for, you know, for the LCK's sake, for the fan's sake that pays in the hands are in better form because I think they right now, to me, are the weakness on the roster and they will get exposed if they play at the same level. [00:53:58] Speaker A: They didn't playoffs, didn't pays, get first team LCK. [00:54:03] Speaker C: Look, you know, I'm happy to talk a little bit about the faze team situation. There's a very clear divide between the global votes and the korean side votes where. And, you know, cultural differences or just different views. Like, there's different sentiments on the game between different broadcasts, but like, the korean side tends to vote heavily towards, like, the first team in the standings gets a lot of, a lot of weight. So, you know, from. For most of the global side, the first all Pro team was Zeus Canyon, Chovy, Viper, and then Kerrier. So kind of a mix of the top three teams and I felt like Zayus, his individual form was insane. Kerrier was pinging out all these picks and being like an unironic carry despite being a support, Viper looked like the best ad carry, I would say, in the league. And then Canyon Trovie were why, like, chovy was insane, but Canyon was a big part why Gen G won. But then, like, our votes kind of got overshadowed a lot by, there's more voters on the korean side. So a lot of the global fans get frustrated at it because they're like, hey, you know, it's just all gen g, first team. But actually, there was some drama because the korean fans got upset at us because Kerrier got first all pro. And part of it was cause Atlas actually didn't put Lahens in his top three. I think he put, like, kerria delight barrel. And I saw a video on YouTube where, like, they were talking. It had, like, 200,000 views. It was in Korea. And they're, like, talking about, like, atlas doing this vote. There was posts on, like, some korean social media where people were saying, like, yo, take away their votes. What are they doing? So, you know, we got messages. [00:55:39] Speaker A: The trucks. [00:55:40] Speaker C: We got messages from fans. Sorry. Just quickly, we got messages from fans. Like, someone wrote a fucking essay saying, how can you not give Lahens more weight? Like, how? Look, all the. All the global casters don't really hands. Do you not see what we're seeing? And it's like, no, we don't. Like, yeah, so I definitely think there's some. There's definitely a difference in perspective. And, like, I think a great example is the hands thing is, what was it? Like, one of the things. The guy who wrote the essay, and again, this is just one dude. I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but he said he really valued his shock. They value his shot calling a lot on the korean side. And I'm like, well, okay, that's great. And sure, he is a good shotcaller, but that's like, when you go in for all pro, for me, it's like, what can you see from this player displayed? You can make assumptions that Lahens is a really good. We know he's a good shot caller, but we don't know. You can't attribute how much is he actually doing. It's not something we are privy to the information on. It's also, there's been lots of times where people have had supports who individually aren't that amazing, but everyone's like, oh, they're so smart. They're a shot caller. And then we actually find out they're not. And it was just like, I'm not saying this is true for Lahens. [00:56:50] Speaker A: That's happened a lot. [00:56:52] Speaker C: I'm not saying that this isn't true. This is true for Lahens. I do think he's a good shot caller, but I also think for all Pro, you rate the individual's play, you know? And I think that's definitely a difference we've had. [00:57:01] Speaker E: We've moved super far away from where I was going to make a point, but my point was going to be. And something that lyric pushed a lot of because he didn't feel like it was necessarily told this way. But while I think a lot of us focused for the LPL on the early game, for both these two teams and how they dominate games, that is just how they won a lot. It also does not discount their late game. And I think that's something easily swept under the rug is like, oh, they're an early game team, so they must just be good at early game, mid game. But I think that's something else to think about as well. [00:57:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:57:39] Speaker E: It's vice versa. [00:57:41] Speaker C: That's why t one lck. [00:57:42] Speaker A: Right. [00:57:42] Speaker E: It's not. They're not. If they. If you give them early advantages, they will just take a game from you. [00:57:48] Speaker C: Yeah. I think whenever it comes to these characterizations, it's like, these are, like, the differences between top teams. It's kind of like, okay, so we take. If we take a team like t one and Gen G, t one are a lot about their bot lane having lane dominance. A top lane having lane dominance, which kind of another point is, I think that's why Lane stops might hit them, but favor Gen G. But I feel like even though it's like, okay, this is how this team has an edge over Gen G, or, you know, Gen G might not have it as an explosive, like, early laning pressure pays on the hands, will still bop, like 80, 90% of the teams of the tournament. I feel like that's always true. Like, you know, it's. The characterization doesn't tell the full story, and the level overall is very high, even if it's like, this is where they really have their strength. [00:58:37] Speaker A: Amen. Okay, who ox is your favorite to win the whole thing? Who's doing it? [00:58:44] Speaker C: I think my money is currently on blg t one. I mean, honestly, you know, I feel like I was probably gonna ask this soon regardless, but if I was, like, rank, like, how likely I think they're gonna win. I think it goes blg t one. Gen g top esports. [00:59:07] Speaker A: Let's go, base. [00:59:09] Speaker D: Where's, like, I team liquid in there. Come on. [00:59:12] Speaker C: Oh, sorry. That we're only. [00:59:13] Speaker A: We're only talking. [00:59:16] Speaker C: Good point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Telling me I think honestly, the matchup between Gen G and blg, I think is bad for Gen G. I think even though Chovy has been insane, I think really, like, the bot lane has been a big weakness. And the thing is, like, yes, they looked good in the finals, but, like, that series against Hanawi, visuals really shook my faith in them. Like, it came down. Like Chovy was playing out of his mind and it still didn't feel like. Like it felt like Holland life esports were the better team and Chovy just had to, like, bring the team to the point where they won that series. So, yes, fantastic individual. I'm not sure how well that holds up against Nyte. T one always level up at internationals. I also think, like, they aren't going to suffer as much of the matchup against BLG. I think goom and Carrier can hold their own. I am a little bit concerned because there was that series last time against BLG at MSI where Shun just ganked bot and dove bot, like four games in a row. And every time t one fell for it because, okay, medals feel about that, right? Ona, like, you know, people were, like, trying to blame Ona for this. Cause ona kept pathing top, but, like, ona was pathing top and Guma carrier would fist fight every time in bot lane. Lose sums, lose health, and then shun would always turn up at the same time. I'm like, look, pick one right? Either owner, path, spot, stop fighting. And the fact it worked and just blew my mind. But hopefully, like, that same thing doesn't happen again. Like, again, I'm not like, BLG can definitely make dives work without that, but they definitely handed it to them on a plate. But I think t one, you know, reigning world champions, we know that form can level up. I think I have a lot of faith in them. Gen G, I'm still on sheriff. I think Chovy really has to be on his A game, but also, to be honest, that's not my concern. My concern is pays on the hands, stepping up and top esports, you know, I love them. I just, you know, I think they're going to have a hard matchup in a Gen G, and I think t one they are more similar to, but I think t one, I think will come out ahead of them in terms of particularly, I think t one are just. They have a lot of international experience under the belt. I think Guma carrier will be able to match up well in the Jacqui. Love mako. And I think sometimes we see faker ona bona, in particular, can be a weak point, although he had a really good playoffs, if gonna be honest. [01:01:30] Speaker A: But he did. [01:01:31] Speaker C: I think fake Rona can sometimes be seen as the weak point in this team. I don't think Tien, I have that much faith he's gonna be able to expose that. I think Tien has kind of been a bit hit or miss for me. [01:01:42] Speaker B: Okay, I have a question for you. [01:01:45] Speaker C: Okay. [01:01:46] Speaker B: Which of the eastern teams do you think is more likely to actually get upset and drop a series? Either in the play, in stage, or in the closet? [01:01:58] Speaker C: They're gonna lose to Brazil, baby. Let's go, bro. You guys last? Oh, man. Watching top esports at worlds. Oh, my God, man. So. Oh, my God. [01:02:09] Speaker A: Ox, you don't know this. So I'm gonna let you in a little bit of rundown lore. You know the Dade award? [01:02:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:02:16] Speaker A: So we have our own version of the Dade award, and it is called the knighthood, and it is specifically for the most overhyped to then fall on his face player coming into the world's competition. It's world specific. We don't do anything for MSI, and it's named after a particular mid laner who was on top esports at a very, very poor world's performance. [01:02:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:02:38] Speaker B: So that was, what, 20, 1920? 2020? [01:02:45] Speaker A: I think it wasn't five years ago. [01:02:47] Speaker B: I think it was all blurs together. [01:02:49] Speaker C: 2021. 2020 was when they came to worlds. And wasn't that when Suning beat? 2020 was Suny, and then it was. Yeah, d plus damn one in the finals, and then 2021 was EDG. 2022. 2022 was when they bumped out, bro. That the bug? The more bug. [01:03:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, we got a little unlucky. [01:03:16] Speaker C: Yeah, it shouldn't have been that close. But, like, you know, I'm. Okay, I'm gonna say it right? I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna. I'm gonna say it. [01:03:23] Speaker A: Do it, do it. [01:03:23] Speaker C: Let's fucking go. It's so weird that, like, the ruling and, like, I kind get why they do it because they don't, like, want the game flow to constantly broken up. But I feel like it's so weird that, like, it's on players to notice these bugs in the moment. Like, you know, how many times have you played? I don't know. These guys are pros on another level. But, like, how many times in solo queue games have you had a team fight and someone's like, okay, did this person flash? And you're like, I don't know, like, you're so, like, dialed in. You're so focused that, like, it's hard to track it. And, like, obviously, pros are more aware. Like, they do a good job of tracking sonos and stuff, but, like, expecting in that, like, in high pressure moments, you're gonna notice that, like, this. This item didn't interact properly or there was a bug, and expecting, like, only they can pause. Because the thing is, like, I feel like, what makes so much sense? And again, like, I can see why they don't do this, but, like, if the coaching team could, like, actually say, hey, that was, like, a huge bug that I've clocked. And it. Cause imagine you're a coach and you see that and you see the mourner work, and you're like, oh, my God, please pause. Like, that's literally the game moment. Please. And they just don't, because they haven't noticed it, and you're just losing your mind. And I guess part of the problem is what teams would do is, you know, Vandrel, the guy who does all the videos on the bugs, they would just hire him. Like, some team would pay him. Like, I'm gonna give you a million dollars so that we never get bugged again. You know, like, more of Malmoidus doesn't proc. He's like, okay, yep, got it. Yep. This. Yeah, I remember this. Yeah, there's a chance that this could happen. I'm prepared. Request the pause. He's like, yeah, so this is a pretty common occurrence with more Malmo de. We can get a little chrono break right now. I'd like that nexus thing. [01:04:56] Speaker D: Every team has a pause, coach. [01:04:59] Speaker C: Legit. Legit. I mean, I think it's such a crazy thing because, like, with any game, there's gonna be bugs and issues. Right. Any game. And, like, it's. It's. It's so frustrating to lose a game on the back of that. [01:05:12] Speaker B: I looked it up. Cause I was curious. It was 2020, because that was the year. That night. Barely managed to make it past nemesis in a best of five and then got dropped by angel. [01:05:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. [01:05:26] Speaker B: That's why we have the knighthood. [01:05:27] Speaker A: That was tough. [01:05:28] Speaker C: Yeah, that was tough. [01:05:30] Speaker A: Man. He was so hyped. Two people were calling the best player in the world that year. [01:05:35] Speaker C: Unlike. What do you think as well? That's a question just. I want to pose because I feel like, you know, it's always a thing, particularly when I was working on the LPL, where, like, players would come in with, like, these huge expectations and then, like, not deliver I just kind of want to open the floor. Like, how do people feel about, like, there's obviously a lot of situations where fans over blow expectations to a crazy amount, but there's obviously times where, like, players just don't perform on the international stage or, like, they underperform. Like, how many situations? Because I think, like, a lot of these people call them chokers or people say, like, oh, no, he's just never that good. Like, how many of these different situations do you attribute to, like, well, the player just wasn't that good and was overrated. Or it's just like, they just underperformed. You know, they were that guy. They were that good. But then they show up at worlds, maybe they got food poisoning and then played like ass. [01:06:20] Speaker D: Yeah, it's so tough because I feel like I hear stories like that all the time, actually, where it's like, oh, this player legitimately, like, was feeling ill or like, just couldn't sleep the night before, just had random insomnia, stuff like that that comes up and then it's like, oh, wow, like, what if that hadn't happened? Like, that series would have been very different. And it's tough to know how much away towards that. But we can't really know unless the team and the players come forward and actually just say it. So oftentimes we are just kind of. [01:06:49] Speaker E: Guessing in traditional sports. Right? Like, would that be an excuse? [01:06:54] Speaker C: You know what's really funny, though, is I remember, like, faker before the world finals. Or, like, I think it was after he posted it, but he posted, like, a night before the world finals. Like, last year, he had, like, a sleep tracker, and it was like he got, like, his best sleep of the year. He was like, yep. Well rested, dialed in, zoned in, ready to win. [01:07:12] Speaker A: I mean, dude, he is built for those moments. [01:07:14] Speaker C: Yeah, no, for sure. I think it is an interesting point just because, I mean, obviously, like, there is always going to be, like, things that come in and mean you can't play at your absolute best. And, like, it's not always going to be a valid argument. But I also think, like, one thing, I think it stands out mostly with LPL, lck compared to, like, Na and EU because they scrim each other all the time. So, like, I think a good example is, like, zayas coming to national tournaments. Like, you'd have like, three, six, nine saying, like, dude, this guy is just, like, a complete beast. Like, he's. He's unstoppable, you know? And then. Cause, like, I think some people are like, well, you know, he's good against LCK teams. Is he good against LPL teams? Because they're scrimming all the time. Like, these players are just good, you know, and then it's like, it makes it more stark when we get to an international end to perform. You're like, damn. Like, what did he eat? You know, how many hours sleep did he get? Stuff like that. [01:08:06] Speaker A: I think so much of this is also, like, there's storylines that come out of dominance within a particular league, and it could be that player is just really good for that league. I think this is true of night, and that's why he was so hyped up at that period of time. He, as a mid laner, was just so much better at that particular meta in 2020. And I think 2020 patches were fucked by COVID. So I think he got good at a patch, and then there just wasn't enough changing to push him and the rest of the team off the patch. So he ended up with this really big, huge respect given to him by everyone who watched that league. And then he comes in, things change a little bit more for worlds, and maybe, yeah, he gets sick. He chokes. It's too much, whatever. But I think it's more of, like, he gets this narrative behind him built up on his success, which is warranted. But maybe the success wasn't just due to him. It was due to the team. It was due to the coach, it was due to the play style was due to, again, the patch. And then they come in and they fall flat and we like to clown on them and say, wow, you know, Chovy choked again, which is always true. Sorry. It's always Chovy's fault when he chokes, but most of the time, I don't think that's the case. You could look at this playoff matchup. I think of Zeus versus Keen in the top lane, and you should be coming into that series. I think, again thinking, Zeus looks fucking good. And Zeus was the arguably the best player for t one last year at worlds. He was really fucking strong. And yet Keen is the one who got his goat over and over and over again and ended up with the finals mvp. Was Zeus just bad or was the team not prepped? [01:09:48] Speaker C: Zeus was bad this whole time, forever. He's never right. [01:09:52] Speaker A: That's exactly it. Right? Like, and that's what. Where the narrative becomes like, dude, this guy just sucked. In reality, I think Gen G is just. You've said it before. Ready? I want to say they're a better team, but I don't think that's true. I think they're just really good and matching up against t one. They know exactly what t one wants to do. It's like, you know, when you learn how to play poker, first you learn, you know, what's in your hand, and then you start thinking about what's in the other person's hand. And then you start thinking about what they think is in your hand. And you just keep going back and forth as you get more and more knowledgeable about everything. And it feels like every finals, every best of five between Gen G and t one. Gen G is one read ahead of t one. They know what they know what they think, what they know what. Right? And they're just that one extra step. So I think it's up in the air. I think if it comes down to an individual moment, that's where you could be like, damn, dude, Jensen did not fucking hit the. [01:10:46] Speaker C: Oh, God, how long? [01:10:48] Speaker D: We're never going to let him live that down, right? [01:10:51] Speaker C: But that's like, the whole point. [01:10:51] Speaker A: Like, that will follow him because it's so easy to be like, bro, dude, hit the button. What the fuck? But where I think Zeus's failure, quote unquote, in this past final is going to be forgotten because even though he got bodied, if you just watch the series and was like, take it for face value, you really look at it within the holistic history of t one versus gen g, which luckily we get. We don't really get that at worlds. We get usually one roster at worlds. And then even if that team makes worlds next year, it's a different roster, different makeup, different patch. But by seeing so many lck finals, so much of this particular t one team, you could see it and go, oh, shit. Okay, Zeus just happens to be the scapegoat or the focus of what Gen G wanted to do in order to win this series against t one. Not keen versus Zeus, but gen g versus t one. [01:11:39] Speaker C: Yeah, but that's not fun, right? [01:11:42] Speaker A: It's way more fun to just be. [01:11:43] Speaker C: Like, dude, double it. Walk into Victor, what a fuck. We wouldn't have any trucks, right? And I think that would be such a massive loss. But I think it's so true because it's like, we know we had Doran on Gen G, and it was kind of a similar thing where everyone was like, yo, Doran is just say, as his father. But it's like, I think you're right. Like, the team does a good job of figuring out what he wants to do and not letting him play the game. I also think the patch point you raised is really valid. Like, I think a good example is JDG last year, like, you know, I said MSI patch was, like, perfect for them, and then it kind of felt like, as we got towards world patch, they were still kind of hanging on to that a little bit and they were good enough that it was fine, but, like, we were seeing them sort of bring out these drafts were like, you know, this would have looked great at MSI, but we don't know that patch anymore. And it started to become a problem later on at worlds. And I think, like, it was like, I think if we played, if worlds was played on MSI patch last year, JDG just went again, you know, and I think, like, it often can just come down to that, especially since, like, there'll be a lot of times where we get, like, huge patch changes coming into international tournaments. I don't think we've really had that this time. But there's definitely a lot of examples where, like, it will just be a mammoth shift up and, like, everything that went on domestically is just completely out the window. And obviously, like, even if we don't get massive changes, like, the meta still does definitely shifts. Teams figure out we see them, like, play against each other. More time in the patch lets it be established. But, yeah, it definitely feels like there's just so many factors at play when it comes down to deliberating who's a choker, who was never that good, who's just underperforming, who had food poisoning, all these things. [01:13:21] Speaker D: The thing about being labeled a choker or having something like the knighthood award is that you had to be considered so good at a certain point. So, like, nobody's really going to be like, oh, APA is. Well, actually, people will say APA is a Joker because there's a lot of APa haters out there. But I'm trying to think of other examples. [01:13:41] Speaker A: Right? [01:13:42] Speaker D: Like, if Masu doesn't do well at this MSI, it's not going to be like, oh, look at this choker. But it's because of expectations and how much you smash. So in a way, you're almost privileged to be able to have an award like that named after you. Because, affiliates, even if you failed in that moment, you still had so much success that led up to the expectations. [01:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah, it's almost, it's a backhanded compliment, right? Same thing with the dad. A award of, like, dude, we loved 90% of your body of work in. [01:14:12] Speaker C: This particular year, but that last 10%. [01:14:15] Speaker A: Man, just wasn't it wasn't over the finish line. You stopped a bit short, you ran out, you cramped up, whatever it is. [01:14:24] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:14:25] Speaker A: It's nice to have this kind of notoriety, but it's unfortunate when you don't quite get there. And it could be worse, for sure. You could be Gold v, you know, gold five or God V or whatever he ended up changing his name to. [01:14:40] Speaker C: Oh, my God, the rank flat evil. [01:14:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:42] Speaker C: I swear, the thing I miss the most from LPL is, like, the insults and, like, the names they come up with and some of the stuff, like, I feel like someone's had a quote where, like, you have to have, like, such a deep understanding of Mandarin and, like, ancient chinese history to really get, like, the layers of references on it. I mean, this one, like, with the Golby, was a lot simpler than that. But, like, there's so many, like, tongue in cheek sort of. Like, even if you get it translated, you're not really gonna understand how much of a diss this was. Like, generational level diss that I always found that stuff so hilarious. Like, the meme game from the chinese audience goes hard. [01:15:20] Speaker D: I don't know any of this context of what we're talking about. [01:15:24] Speaker C: Oh, you got it. Okay. [01:15:25] Speaker A: So one thing that Reddit does do well is someone every now and then will decide to translate stuff out of either the chinese forums or the korean forums. You'll get some good tidbits from there now, depending upon the ability of the translator and really what they're going for, what team they're a fan of or players they're a fan of. You can kind of question the veracity of some of the stuff they're translating and really, like, how big it is within that particular forum. But if you do pay attention, you'll see, like, once a month, you'll see some someone post threads from. Is it, it's Weibo in China? What is it in Korea again? [01:16:03] Speaker C: Maybe what's the big forum or FM Korea or. Yeah, there's loads. I don't know. I'm not that well. [01:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I couldn't tell you either. Yeah, like, someone will go through and, like, say, oh, yeah, there's tons of posts about Zeus and how they're calling him, you know, tiny thunder dick or something like that. And that'll just get translated and you won't even know if that's actually true or if he just picked one that he thought was funny. It's just being like, yeah, dude, that's what everyone's saying. They're all calling him that isn't that crazy? It's like, you know, a spin off of my girlfriend goes to other school. You just make up some stuff and. [01:16:37] Speaker D: So where does gold v? Coming. [01:16:39] Speaker C: Check. [01:16:39] Speaker A: Thank you. So God. [01:16:42] Speaker C: Okay. [01:16:43] Speaker A: God V was the name of another very hyped chinese mid laner. What, 2018? Does that sound right? [01:16:52] Speaker B: I'm not even sure it was that recent. [01:16:55] Speaker A: Is it longer ago than that? Don't tell me that, man. [01:16:58] Speaker C: It feels like it was yesterday. You know, I think it was pre then. Yeah, he. He stopped playing the pre franchisee. [01:17:04] Speaker A: Oh, no way. So, 20. [01:17:07] Speaker C: It was 2015. [01:17:09] Speaker A: Then was God v. Cause then each name changed. [01:17:12] Speaker B: He was originally wayless, then he was God V, and people memed on him as gold v, then he was painting 85, and people memed on him as flat evil. And then he went back to way less, and then he retired. [01:17:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:17:30] Speaker D: Way less was a hint as to his actual rank. [01:17:34] Speaker C: Mmm. [01:17:35] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:17:38] Speaker C: Okay. [01:17:38] Speaker A: I'm not trying to make a connection here, like an actual sentence in which this functions. Mzell, I think you've been a little quiet. You've been thinking, obviously, about a wayless oriented joke this entire way less. [01:17:49] Speaker D: It's way less than gold five or plat. [01:17:51] Speaker C: Come on. It's right there. It was obvious. [01:17:54] Speaker A: Yeah. I was trying to give something to mazel to do. Come on, man. Everyone agreed with him about BlG being the better team. So he's just, like, sitting here. [01:18:03] Speaker C: He was ready to fight, you know, gloves on, he was in the ring, and I was really hoping we were. [01:18:07] Speaker E: Getting one big failing, and I will probably look back on it with, like, the most regret. I had an original plan to bring my new BLG jersey with me to Ireland. And if BLG were going to go to a final, like, they were on match point, I was going to put it under my suit, and then, whatever they want, I was going to rip my shirt off. [01:18:31] Speaker C: Yes. [01:18:32] Speaker A: It would have been so fun. [01:18:33] Speaker C: And then he forgot to ripped his shit off naked. [01:18:39] Speaker E: I didn't have enough. Like, I didn't have a lot of space in my bag, and so I decided not to bring it. And then looking back, I was like, that was probably the biggest mistake, not only as a broadcaster, to have some branding potential there, but also just for the fun of the moment. [01:18:56] Speaker A: You always gotta do it for the bit, bro. Commit always. [01:19:01] Speaker E: It's probably the one thing I'm gonna regret a lot. A lot of. [01:19:06] Speaker A: If that is the thing you most regret, that's great. That's very good. [01:19:11] Speaker C: That's the point. [01:19:12] Speaker A: Actually, yeah, think about that. It's like having a. The knighthood named after, you know, the Mazelle is not bringing the winning team. All right, gentlemen, thank you both a lot for giving us a deep dive into the second and third best regions in the world. Really important, I think, for all of our listeners to have a better understanding of these teams. Since we're going to see them the entirety, pretty much, of the semi finals and the finals, we get to watch two of them in action as soon as May 1, as both SKT and top esports will be playing in the plants. [01:19:48] Speaker E: Do we need, like, a smack talk section? Do we need to, like, force us to talk? [01:19:53] Speaker A: I don't think it's possible. [01:19:55] Speaker C: Lck sucks. You're going down. [01:19:57] Speaker E: LPL is going to run your mouth, bro. [01:20:00] Speaker D: What you got, ox? [01:20:02] Speaker C: Man, I've watched this top esports roster pull it out of the bag in so many moments. Just when you think the game is unloseable, they managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And, you know, we always see LPL teams kind of bomb out this top esports. Oh, baby. Are they gonna do it, man? Yeah, this team's. This team's cooked, bro, already. [01:20:23] Speaker D: I noticed you only picked a team and not the whole region. [01:20:25] Speaker C: No, I'm a realist, bro. [01:20:34] Speaker D: Watch tes. When the whole frickin thing just out of spite, bro. [01:20:38] Speaker C: That's the thing is, I love. I love this team, but they give me so much pain. [01:20:44] Speaker A: Ox comes out ahead no matter what. [01:20:47] Speaker B: The tournament, they lost to loud. [01:20:50] Speaker A: That's true. [01:20:52] Speaker C: Wow. [01:20:52] Speaker A: We brought it full circle. [01:20:53] Speaker E: We went Duffy's in the tournament. [01:20:56] Speaker C: That be so. [01:20:57] Speaker A: I would have loved to have pain back. I'm sorry. I'm tired of loud, you know, I get it. Congratulations. You're, like, in the riot ecosystem. And, like, props to you guys for being good, I guess. But, like, fuck, I remember the days of pain. Those were the big guns. That was the big brazilian team. Brt, hui, hui. Come on, guys. The Draven was. [01:21:20] Speaker C: It just really sounds like you're eminis on some. Some bad times. Like, I remember the days of pain. Like, oh, man, that's true. [01:21:28] Speaker D: You don't under. Kids don't get it these days. Back in my day. [01:21:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, back in my day, and all we had was pain for year after year. All right, gentlemen, I think that's going to do it for here. So we won't cause you any further pain. Ox, tell everyone where they can find more of you, what you're up to. [01:21:48] Speaker C: Twitter, or, you know, my handle is usually orcs casts on pretty much everything that is available, unless, like, some random dude stole it. So just there. Usually I'm on the LCK. I talk about stuff there. Feel free to at me on Twitter and call me a bozo or something. [01:22:04] Speaker D: Oh, please don't do that. [01:22:07] Speaker A: All right, hold on 1 second. Let me just bring up Twitter. [01:22:09] Speaker C: Sorry. [01:22:09] Speaker D: We call them our viewers. Right, Duffy? [01:22:11] Speaker C: Don't. [01:22:11] Speaker D: Please don't do that. Viewers. [01:22:12] Speaker C: Yeah, our viewers. We should commit. I'm not gonna lie. I'm gonna be. I'll be completely honest. You know, a lot of. I feel like professionals are like, look, don't engage. You get these toxic fans. Don't bother. There's pointless engaging. You're not gonna convince them. Like, you're just gonna get dragged down the mud. Nah, bro. I am, like, down in the trenches. You know, I'm active with the lck discord. Someone will post a bad take. I'll just. I'll be like, laser in and be like, what the fuck did you just say? Like, you know, I'll be like, in. I'm always down for it. You know, at the end of the day, I am just. I'm just a shitposter. And I may happen to also be a professional caster, but that doesn't pull away from my main role as a shitposter and an Internet arguer. You know, those are my. Those are my traits. I love it. [01:22:57] Speaker A: You have a job and a career. [01:22:59] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [01:23:00] Speaker A: Sometimes those are two different things. Totally get it. All right, well, thank you once again, ox, for joining us. And thanks to everyone who's listening. We're excited for MSI. Coming up, it's going to happen in about a week. From the time you hear this, may 1, do not forget that. [01:23:15] Speaker C: In fact, I'm going to go to. [01:23:16] Speaker A: Lowell esports right now and see if they even actually have the start time. They do. [01:23:20] Speaker E: Oh, my God. [01:23:21] Speaker A: This is incredible. So, may 1 PDT at 01:00 a.m. Is the beginning of the play ins. It's Flyquest versus PSG. It's followed by t one versus estral esports. And those are your first two matchups. That will be one, two, bang, bang. 01:00 a.m. 04:00 a.m. Those are best of threes. Just as a reminder, we are hoping still to bring you all the play in episode next week where we're going to talk about the minor region teams. So those from PCs, VC's, et cetera, cb low, and really focus on the planes themselves. And then, as a reminder, again, it's a weird schedule because of MSI. Casts are going to come, or our podcasts are going to come out intermittently depending upon the breaks and the scheduling itself. So if you want to stay on top of MSI, continue to listen to us. We'll pump stuff out as quickly as we can. Thank you all for listening. If you all could give this a big thumbs up on whatever you're listening to this on whatever platform or five stars. Five, of course. Kangas is the number of games that. [01:24:20] Speaker D: Top esports is going to play in their series. Oh, wait, no, it's the best of three. Damn it. Still? [01:24:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Nothing. [01:24:28] Speaker E: I love that you just went. [01:24:31] Speaker C: Brazil to 20. [01:24:33] Speaker D: And then they play three games in the qualification match, of course, getting zero three by gam. [01:24:40] Speaker C: Okay, you think gam's beating fnatic? [01:24:43] Speaker A: Okay, I love this. We're shipping this for later. Okay? That's exactly what's gonna happen. Thank you guys for listening. We love you, and we'll see you next time. [01:24:51] Speaker C: Bye. Oh, yes, daddy sa.