League Rundown - Episode 588: The official, undeniable, undisputed worlds finals tierlist episode

[00:00:13] Speaker A: Gets a little too far here. He's gonna have to try and get himself out. Let me go. Tillery and the rest of the shots of fire. Zion is just killing the next Zion can eat it single handedly win the. [00:00:22] Speaker B: Game by game by game by game by. [00:00:26] Speaker A: Should be. [00:00:27] Speaker C: Oh my God. [00:00:28] Speaker A: Stupid passes through and manages to the table with Messiah tanking it up. I do not believe he just believe. [00:00:42] Speaker B: I cannot understand this game. [00:00:46] Speaker A: Unicorns of love. It wasn't a mutant. The Nexus. [00:01:07] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to episode 588 of the League rundown. This is off season continued and this episode is lovingly entitled the Official Undeniable, Undisputed World's Finals Tier List Episode. That's right. We're full into off season so we're having a lot of fun with these episodes. I'm your host Kangas and I'm joined by three esteemed co hosts for this one. Up first we have joining us fresh out of the can, it's Badger. [00:01:36] Speaker D: I mentioned this during the pre record but reading TL and C9 are playing in the CUSPA cup on Disney plus is still a headline I will never get over at this point. [00:01:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's one of the global news things that we'll talk about. Really, really cool that that's happening. We'll have some more information later. But before we get into that, also joining us we got Bickle. [00:01:57] Speaker C: Our first time seeing APA on Cloud nine is going to be against Genji and Chovy. I'm sure that's going to go wonderfully. [00:02:04] Speaker A: It's gonna go swimmingly. I and we also have joining US Post World's Mr. Mazelpl. [00:02:11] Speaker B: Hello. I'm excited to be back. [00:02:14] Speaker A: Happy to have you. [00:02:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Talk about all the crazy stuff that's going on. [00:02:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Give us maybe a little update. [00:02:19] Speaker B: Legend is going to look very different in 2026, y'. All. [00:02:22] Speaker A: It will, it will. We've tried our best to give the LPL update for like how roster movements are looking. We haven't had you or yaddy on for, for a couple episodes. So we're like, we're doing the best we can to try and summarize. [00:02:36] Speaker B: You're doing great. You're doing great spreading the gospel. [00:02:38] Speaker A: Thank you. Happy to have you back though. So we're gonna go through just for kind of heads up for everybody since we are now like deep into offseason here. We're just gonna have some fun with the episodes for December. This episode it's just gonna be the roster updates that have happened since two weeks ago when we had our last episode. And then we're gonna do our World's Finals tier list where we create a tier list together based on all the World's Finals in the past 15 years. Kind of cool that we have 15 now to pick from. But then the coming weeks, we'll also have some other fun game shows to do next week we'll probably finally actually look at LECA and LCS format explainers because we've been kind of doing that like. Well, we'll do it whenever we don't have anything else to talk about in an episode. [00:03:21] Speaker B: But then badgers gonna be crazy. Why I said League of Legends gonna look different 20, 26. Because literally every part of it that you can think of is gonna be vastly different. Like players, the style, the formats, the actual game itself. Yeah, the actual game so much. [00:03:37] Speaker A: The updates in the game client are gonna be interesting. The. They put out like the dev update for what next year is gonna look like. And as a support. Yeah, like the whole vision thing where there's like the little circles that if you put a ward in, they get extended vision. That's cool. [00:03:52] Speaker B: We. We've recently invited a bunch of new people to the LPL discord for tryouts and stuff. And the biggest theme is that there is no longer an objective that LPL is going to throw over. It's going to be the quest. [00:04:07] Speaker D: You're going to throw for the quests. [00:04:11] Speaker B: Every game you want to see a team throw for their quest, come to the lpl. [00:04:16] Speaker A: Yeah, because they're adding quests for top lane, mid lane, and ad carry now. [00:04:20] Speaker C: Right. [00:04:21] Speaker A: That's your reference. [00:04:22] Speaker C: Every. Every lane will have its own quest jungle and support will just continue with the. [00:04:27] Speaker D: Oh boy. I can't wait to see what benefits my Cassiopeia. [00:04:31] Speaker B: I can't wait to a level 20 Camille. And from the top lane with 50,000 health. [00:04:36] Speaker A: And that's insane. The top laners can break the level cap and they're like the only ones. [00:04:40] Speaker B: And they just always have tp. [00:04:42] Speaker C: Don't worry, guys. I'm getting some pink ward coupons. [00:04:48] Speaker A: Oh my goodness. Yeah, there's so many changes. [00:04:51] Speaker C: We. [00:04:51] Speaker A: We can do an episode for that as well. But these are some of like the. The big ones that are going to shake up the. The meta for sure. But for this episode, a couple of the roster things. Let's hop into that because we tried to do like summarizing all the rumors and some of those rumors have become confirmed moves. And we also have some new information going on so kicking off in LEC over in Europe. Bickle the question on a lot of minds for like one of the biggest dominoes that could have fall was June the support. Where would June be going? And it looks like Giant X are keeping them. They refuse to sell to Fnatic so that's kind of cool. [00:05:27] Speaker C: Yep. Giant X going to be keeping their entire roster running it back with Junit support staying with Noah. There were thoughts on if he was going to be sold to Fnatic. There was a, I believe a six figure offer but ended up turning it down. [00:05:40] Speaker A: Yeah and like those big offers are more and more rare to see in the ecosystem these days. So it just shows first off how desirable June was as a player and also how much Giant X wanted to keep him to turn down an offer like that. But speaking of Fnatic, that means that they have to make some other decisions. So it looks like they're signing a. I believe this was a Greek player if I saw the the flag right. But some. Some European player emperors into the top lane and then lo a Korean support coming in instead. I don't know anything about either these players. Does anybody else have more information on them or at least like nationality of Imperials? [00:06:18] Speaker B: I do not. [00:06:19] Speaker D: I do not either. [00:06:21] Speaker C: I believe you're correct. Imperial says Greek. [00:06:24] Speaker A: It. Okay. I just saw the tweet and I saw the flag for like a half second and I just thought it was the Greek flag. I was like we're going with that. [00:06:33] Speaker A: Good to be in a bit of a rebuild here. [00:06:37] Speaker C: Yep. He's coming from the LFL on team gentle mates. They did fine. They were top three in the LFL, top 16 at EU Masters. He played with players like Ike Comp and Airdote on his team. He was one of the better top lane prospects everyone was kind of looking at. So it'll be interesting to see what comes out of him. As for Lospa, trying to remember a bit about him. [00:07:10] Speaker A: Well, while you're doing that, I'll summarize a bit. I knew that in the offseason Fnatic was heavily looking to replace Oscar Rinnen and it was looking like it was almost a full roster rebuild for them. That was basically what we were talking about last week with Fnatic is that a lot of contracts were expiring for upset. They had already parted ways with Mickey and they were looking to get rid of Oscar Renin as well. So their. Their offseason not over yet. They still have more, more players to bring in if the rumors are true. [00:07:39] Speaker C: Yep. But for Losba, he. He's coming from Giant X Prime. Giant X's, I guess, academy team, though there's always that. How do they actually relate over in the superliga, the Spanish League. They won the Spanish league, I believe. And then, like, his new teammate plays top 16 at Worlds. He does have a bit of history book in the LCK Challenger scene. He spent some time on Gen G's challenger squad. [00:08:11] Speaker A: Okay, cool. Interesting. Interesting. [00:08:13] Speaker B: Academy system's a funny thing to talk about right now, right? [00:08:18] Speaker A: Imagine. Imagine. Hey, well, we'll have some more conversation about that here soon. Actually, that's the next topic here. The last of the EU news that we have right now, G2 Nord, which I believe is one of their. [00:08:28] Speaker C: Like, this is their new academy team. [00:08:31] Speaker A: Their new academy team. [00:08:32] Speaker C: They had an academy team. They parted ways with their academy team. They didn't run an academy team for a while. This off season, they announced they were making a new academy team. This is their new academy team. [00:08:45] Speaker A: New academy team with a new academy mid laner and another North American player moving over to Europe to Compete in Tier 2. [00:08:55] Speaker B: Hold on, you got to give me a second. I've got a whole drink that I'm pouring out. Literally, really onto the ground right now. We're just gonna sit here for like a good minute and a half and we're gonna sit with ourselves in disappointment and. [00:09:08] Speaker A: Okay, don't worry, guys. I'm not gonna give a minute and a half. But how about this cumulative five seconds of silence? Five seconds of silence. [00:09:14] Speaker C: Don't worry, guys. We didn't need Toasty. [00:09:16] Speaker B: There don't need to be size. There needs to be action. NA needs to buck up. [00:09:20] Speaker A: True. We didn't need Toasty. [00:09:22] Speaker C: We've got Palafox mid laner. [00:09:24] Speaker A: Toasty is heading over to Europe. If you haven't heard us talk about Toasty before, he's come up before on this podcast. He's like the mid laner that has been the North American mid laner. At least that has been really heavily scouted. We talked about him back when the league went from 10 to eight teams. When Evil geniuses left, he was going to be evil geniuses mid laner if they had stuck around for that year. But of course, that is not the future that we saw. So there was a alternate timeline where Toasty was an LCS player already. And it's crazy that no teams were able to give him either an offer that he wanted or any offers at all. I don't know what that looked like, but it's crazy that we're losing another prospect, but I guess this is kind of the reckoning because we did this to Europe for a decade. [00:10:17] Speaker A: So mazel. You already gave your thoughts. Understandably, this is upsetting for us as, like, fans of developing players in the North American ecosystem. Badger, I want to get your thoughts on this one, because I feel like you'll be a slightly less biased. [00:10:33] Speaker D: No, I mean, I love the influx of talent that we're bringing over from, like, LCK challengers. But, like, at the same time, it's. It kind of sucks looking at, like, the nationalities leaderboard on the LCS page and seeing Korea at the top with. [00:10:51] Speaker A: Yep. [00:10:51] Speaker D: Max. [00:10:52] Speaker A: And it's. Over half of the players in the league at this point are Korean, I believe. It's like, I think we passed the 50% mark, right? [00:10:58] Speaker D: Pretty sure we have, yeah. Based on residencies and whatnot. But, yeah, it's just kind of one of those that it's like, okay, really? Are we just. Are we just going down this path where it's like, it's. I mean, these guys that are all leaving to go to Europe, like, I mean, we've lost four at this point. [00:11:14] Speaker B: So more money, more eyes. [00:11:16] Speaker D: How many more. How many more is it going to take before action happens? [00:11:20] Speaker A: Yeah, and it's. It's most disheartening to see even teams like Dignitas and. And we'll talk. Or I guess. No, it wasn't Dignas, it was dsg. Because Dignitas have Dark Wings, I believe. [00:11:32] Speaker C: No, Dignitas have Paladin roster, bro. [00:11:34] Speaker A: O Halifax. That's what it was, right? Yeah. Dark Wings was that Sentinels. [00:11:38] Speaker B: There's shit all over the place they've been flinging, bro. It's like looking into a fucking. A monkey arena in the zoo. There's just shit all over the walls, bro. [00:11:49] Speaker A: It's just some players, it works and we love them and we're happy to have them, you know, stick around for more than one year. But it's just the pain is when it's a revolving door, especially from the broadcast side of the. Trying to get excited and tell interesting stories about players when historically most are only here for a year or two, tops, and then they. They leave. And it's like that. That's tough because that was two years that a different player could have been developing in that role, and they probably would have stuck around. So that. That's where the pain is for me. I agree that, like, it's exciting to see Korean players get another opportunity, especially Tier two players where it's Way harder to get a spot in the lck. So they're much more desirable for. And NA has been happy to give those opportunities out. Great for those players to take these opportunities. Don't mean to knock any of the Tier two Korean players coming over or even like the Tier one Korean players coming over. If they're given an opportunity, take it. It's just. It's tough when it like the orgs always feel like they have some scapegoat and usually it's oh, there's no native talent developing and now we have like a lot of talent that was in our hands and now we're use like well, we'll take that thankfully. [00:13:04] Speaker A: But a bit of a downer. I believe this means it makes four. Unless somebody. If maybe I'm missing somebody. I count Jojo, Pune, Busio in Tier one and then Yukino and Toasty in Tier two. [00:13:17] Speaker D: No, that sounds right. [00:13:18] Speaker A: NA players now that we lost technically. [00:13:20] Speaker C: Yukina will be playing in the LEC come winter because of that whole top two. [00:13:27] Speaker C: Teams. [00:13:28] Speaker B: Oh, true. Yeah. [00:13:30] Speaker C: He's on Casey Blue kcb. [00:13:32] Speaker A: Good point, good point. [00:13:34] Speaker C: But yes, that's all. There were previous N A players. I know there was a. I think it was like a year and a half ago. Cody son was over. [00:13:44] Speaker D: Cody's son was in lfl. Yeah. [00:13:48] Speaker A: But that was only ever since. [00:13:49] Speaker B: Then he came and subbed in for NaCl for like two games. [00:13:52] Speaker A: Games. [00:13:52] Speaker B: It was great. [00:13:54] Speaker C: But this is great for Toasty and sad for na. [00:13:58] Speaker A: Yes. And that's the general mentality from the players if you follow their like perspectives on social media. Yukino especially the Jungler has been very vocal about this. He did an interview. I think he did one with Don Jake at least he like made a couple tweets about this. I remember seeing just saying how he recommended to tier 2 players in NA go to EU competition is going to be better and you're going to be better taken care of and you actually have a higher chance of getting promoted and scouted because we've seen. [00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:26] Speaker C: He outright turned down N A tier one offers. He turned down FlyQuest offer to stay with KC Blue. [00:14:33] Speaker A: That's. Yeah, that's crazy to think about. And it's like you. You take a player like Yukino and he was. I'm trying to remember Miselle. Maybe. Maybe you have a better memory. Was he playing. He was playing in 2023. Was he playing in 2022? I don't remember if he was. [00:14:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I believe so. [00:14:50] Speaker A: Was that the Hundred Thieves, the next team? Yeah, the 100T when they had their third roster. I think he was their jungler for that. [00:14:57] Speaker B: But for a majority, if I remember correctly, I remember him being under EG for a majority of that time in 2022. [00:15:08] Speaker A: EG. And then. [00:15:09] Speaker B: Let me. Let me double check prodigies. [00:15:13] Speaker A: That makes sense. Yeah. [00:15:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he. So he was on the edgy parties and then I just went to his site. The Hundred Academy team. He was on the next squad before that, but he was Only on the 100t Academy team for like a month. [00:15:25] Speaker A: Okay, sure. But either way, right, so that was like two years develop. [00:15:30] Speaker B: That was the like Wonder star roster that everybody was like so excited about. [00:15:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And basically three years developing because he went to EU this year. And I mean, that sucks. If you're a young kid who's trying to go pro as a gamer and you spend two years of your life grinding, you're at the top of the challenger leaderboards, you're doing all the stuff in Tier two and na, like, I get it. I get why you get jaded with the region and choose to go somewhere else. Because we have a bad track record of promoting talent internally. Hopefully that changes. But that's enough Doomer talk. That's all the EU news. Let's get over into North American news. FlyQuest did promote a couple of players and this is a team to get very excited about here. We already talked about Kryra being on the roster last week. Well, mazel. It's confirmed now. Well, I guess rumored. Confirmed. Cheap Esports put it out. Cryo gen support for FlyQuest. How do we feel about that? [00:16:24] Speaker B: Cryogen was really good. And the few times we got to see him during nacl, I think. I mean, obviously a lot to grow. And the first. First flag I will throw about this FlagQuest roster. Do not expect them to be like a world contending team instantly. Do not expect the same things from the roster over the last four years, two years or whatever, to be the same as this roster. Because I think this roster has a lot of growing pains it's going to have to go through and a lot of learning moments. But I think that they are setting themselves up for years to come. [00:16:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Masu is about to be the longest tenured FlyQuest player on this roster. [00:17:00] Speaker C: That's absurd. [00:17:02] Speaker A: That's crazy. Quad had more experience played in Korea before, so I guess technically he's like the longest veteran. But if we're just looking at like on FlyQuest, it's. It's Masu like that's. [00:17:11] Speaker B: I find it just As a secondary, like, tangent to that. Not tangent, but, like, if you watch the Fly Quest thing, I'm so interested that Masu is the last guy standing. When it seemed. And from what I've heard from behind the scenes is he was, like, the primary focus on all the problems that they were having. Like. Like, a lot of it centered around him, and he's the only one. So I don't know what happened. I don't know, like, if they, like. I believe in Masu as well, and I. I just think it's really interesting that he's the final piece. [00:17:43] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:17:44] Speaker A: I. I find watching that that, like, there's just strong personalities, and Masu is not a very strong, dominating personality. He's a strong, mechanical player. But I think he performs best if he had somebody like a core jj, somebody like an aphromoo, Somebody like, even like a Huhi, like, these types of supports that are more known for being able to kind of direct a younger ad carry. And Busio wasn't that. That doesn't mean that they weren't a bad duo, Lane. It just meant that, like, I could see why other players might get frustrated if Masu isn't as vocal of a player, as demanding of an ad carry. He's not a doublelift where he's like, this is what I want to do and how I want to do it. And sometimes you want your ad carry who has all the gold to tell the team, this is like, what I want to do. [00:18:31] Speaker D: It's like, hey, we need to do right now. [00:18:33] Speaker A: Yeah. So Cryogen is not going to fix that, but it is exciting to see new players come in. [00:18:38] Speaker B: He's a playmaker, though. He's a crowd. Is an absolute playmaker. [00:18:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Out of all the supports in North America, I think he's really the only one that's, like, a new face that has been receiving any level of hype. [00:18:51] Speaker B: He's busio light. [00:18:53] Speaker A: Yeah. I would. I would say I don't expect the same level that Busio came in at, but I think that he could get there. [00:19:00] Speaker B: I think Crouching is way too young to be getting a shot right now. Or, like, way too fresh at least. But. [00:19:05] Speaker A: Okay. [00:19:06] Speaker B: I think I. I mean, if you're gonna take the shot, take the shot. Right. And, like, it's one of those things where it's either gonna bend or it's gonna forge into hard steel. Right. [00:19:15] Speaker A: I mean, and I'm happier to see that than a team like FlyQuest go for, like, a Zazel or a diamond. Like, who else is Available what he has. [00:19:23] Speaker B: I mean, I would love to see Zazel tva. That's just me. [00:19:26] Speaker C: I guess the support pool in NA right now is just bad. [00:19:31] Speaker A: I. I think that it is. It's struggling. I agree with Mazel that like Zazel would be the next option if he wants to believe Zazel's experience. [00:19:41] Speaker A: The tough thing was a player like Zazel is that it's. It's almost like the. The tactical effect where he's had so many chances and he. Every time we see him at Tier one, he is like bottom two in his role. [00:19:53] Speaker B: Like every time it's a fucking world's quarters or whatever. [00:19:57] Speaker A: I mean, yeah, that was a while ago. [00:20:01] Speaker B: It was. But he did it. [00:20:03] Speaker A: He did it. True, true. And that I'm. And I'm like half on the same page and that I think that if another support is gonna get a nod for as an NA support, it's Zazel. Like it's. It's kind of hands down. But if you're gonna go for roll the dice on a new face. Cryogen makes sense. And it seems like this is Fly quest for at least a split. If not, hopefully a year testing this out and then maybe they'll make adjustments future like going forward. So what's working? What's not working? But they have a lot of stuff to play around with now and kind of figure out what's going to click for their future rebuild here. [00:20:40] Speaker A: All right, so that. That's exciting. Dignitas though. [00:20:44] Speaker A: Maybe less exciting. [00:20:45] Speaker D: Yikes. [00:20:46] Speaker B: I'm gonna mute real quick. [00:20:49] Speaker A: Okay, I'm gonna give this one to you. We got the roster. What do we think? [00:20:55] Speaker C: The more things change, the more they stay the same. Like, it's exciting. Dignitas had a change and they brought in Kamikaze Platypus as their new guy. [00:21:05] Speaker A: To replace General manager was CLG XCLG X Golden Guardians. When they had a good run. X Energy. Of course. Yeah. [00:21:14] Speaker C: X Energy. It certainly shows. [00:21:19] Speaker C: So Digma Toss. They are retaining Photon as their top laner and changing everything up. They are bringing back somebody who swore they would never work with this Org again in Xu as their jungler. [00:21:35] Speaker D: And then they to. [00:21:37] Speaker B: To his. Let's give to the roster first. [00:21:39] Speaker A: Then we'll give thoughts on players. [00:21:41] Speaker C: I just want to hear all the names they said. What was the worst part of NRG that just barely managed to work. What's their entire point? Working through their top jungle. Yes. So let's bring in their mid 80 carry in support. That's right. We have Palafox FBI and IGNAR. [00:21:57] Speaker A: The gang's back together. [00:22:01] Speaker B: Back in town. [00:22:02] Speaker D: Gang's all here. Yes. [00:22:06] Speaker B: I have a caveat. Just. Cause I. Jonathan, if you listen this, for some odd reason, you listen to this. I don't hate you. I love you. You're awesome. What the fuck is this roster? And why the fuck is it in my LCS? That and DSG's roster can get blown to the fucking moon. And I wouldn't care like that shit. Besides the few points, right? Like, but like these. They had the opportunity, guys, they had the opportunity to be some of the only teams that focused on NA talent, that tried to nurture that community that everybody is fucking craving right now. And they went out to left field and got John from fucking Appleseed County. And I, like, it's so insane to me, the decisions these teams make when there is a hunger for fandom. So they don't give anybody fandom possibilities whatsoever. [00:23:04] Speaker A: So I've heard a little bit behind the scenes. I don't want to spoil too much, but I've heard that the roster that they wanted was very different than the roster that they got. Jonathan and Dignitas had a very difficult time convincing players to come and play on the team. I wonder, understandably, given the track record of Dig is an org. So we talk, everyone acts. Surprise. Let's go. Badger. [00:23:33] Speaker C: And then Bickle. [00:23:34] Speaker D: I just. Just the idea that, like, oh, maybe new management. And then it's just. God, just this fucking NRG roster that, like, all the parts of the Energy roster that I hated just like sitting there just right in front of my very eyes. Why are we doing this? Like, I get FBI's like, legacy player, but, like, come on, at this point, like, why the fuck are. Why the fuck is this guy still, like, kind of here right now? Like, I don't know. I'm. I'll give it the all. [00:24:01] Speaker A: I'll. [00:24:02] Speaker D: I'll watch the games before I, you know, get overly opinionated on it. But at the same time, like, is this even gonna fucking work? Like, what are we doing? [00:24:16] Speaker A: All right. I said in order, so let's just stick with it. Pickle, let's go. You next? [00:24:20] Speaker C: It's almost like their history's finally catching up to them. If you're shit for so many years in a row, turns out nobody wants to pay. Play for you like some of this FBI. Okay, he was just at Worlds. I'll give him a break in that department. Palafox, I don't know what you're thinking. He's looked awful these past Two years and just hasn't been the same. The one I can't stomach whatsoever is Ignar. Yeah, this man was teamless last year. Nobody wanted him. And just. [00:25:01] Speaker C: Right there, if you wanted a veteran support and you go, ignar. [00:25:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:07] Speaker B: There's so many other options. [00:25:09] Speaker C: Good luck, Swiffer. [00:25:11] Speaker A: I mean this is the type of team where legitimately I would say outside of top lane and AD carry, you could take a pick and be like, like, what the fuck? I. I think Photon actually makes a certain level of sense. I know they wanted Dokla. I know Dokla turned them down. [00:25:27] Speaker D: I wonder why. [00:25:29] Speaker A: I wonder why. Right. And so like if, if you're having offers to other top laners you would rather have and they're saying no, Photon's not a bad one to end on. He still looked good enough in eu. He looked fine when he played for them a little bit this past year. I actually was, I got to talk with him a little behind the scenes fun guy, really nice, personable personal human being. And I was like, I, I would hate if we kept photo going to the next year just based on like vibes I got from behind the scenes conversations I was having. [00:26:01] Speaker D: Oh, he seems great. [00:26:03] Speaker A: If we get him on camera, I think he's actually gonna have a lot of fun. And FBI, I, I actually am happy to keep FBI around. I know the FBI's got a lot of haters. I am not one of them. I think that when this guy is on, he is an incredible threat for any roster. It's just getting him to that cons he can actually be on and finding the right meta for him. But then, yeah, it's like Palafox. We had Toasty, we had Sammy Kin, even like in tier 2 mid laners that could replace them. Xu, I love you man. I love you. Lawrence. You had a really bad last year and I just, I. You're going to have to turn it around. You're fighting an uphill battle right now going back to an org that you were very publicly on. So it's like that, that was the fun branding for him last year was like, okay, yeah, he's struggling a lot against the other junglers, but at least he's like fun because he'll talk about Dig and how he's played for Digs. It's like, oh no. [00:27:01] Speaker A: You'Re supposed to. [00:27:02] Speaker D: Destroy this, not join them. [00:27:06] Speaker C: Don't worry guys. He had a very productive discussion with Bakery. Everything's better. [00:27:12] Speaker B: Yeah, Bakery's still with Dig, which is the hilarious part of all of it. [00:27:16] Speaker A: Yeah, He. He failed upwards for sure. [00:27:19] Speaker C: Yep. [00:27:20] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:27:20] Speaker A: So Dignitas rough roster. We'll see what they do. There's gonna be a lot of very odd rosters. And as much as we're shitting on this dig, this legitimately could still be a top four team. Like, that's the craziest part about all this. I opened my mouth for as terrible as, like, this team looks on paper. Like. Like there's a. There's an off chance. [00:27:42] Speaker B: I'll throw up, Kangas. I'll throw up right now. [00:27:44] Speaker A: Okay, Please don't. [00:27:45] Speaker C: They are top four. There are bigger problems. [00:27:49] Speaker A: Well, okay, but I'm telling. Fly Quest is a very young roster, and if things don't click, they could struggle. DSG is like, also pretty young roster. Things could not click. Sentinels is like an all Korean roster with dark wings in the mid lane. [00:28:06] Speaker B: I like, I'm. We get through this person. We literally haven't even made it to some of the more egregious. [00:28:12] Speaker A: Well, let's move on. Let's go, Sentinels, let's go. [00:28:14] Speaker B: Next one. This one, I think, hurts me the most. Again, going back to the conversation, you had the chance to be the golden darling when you came into the lcs. Everybody wants to be a fan of Sentinels, and they go and sign this shit fucking roster, man. Oh, my God. [00:28:32] Speaker C: Koreans and dark Wings. [00:28:34] Speaker A: Okay, yes, for Koreans, dark wings I'm fine with. [00:28:37] Speaker B: Dark Wings is cool. But God damn it, bro, I will. [00:28:41] Speaker A: Say, like, you know, Impact still getting the spot. It's Huhi and Rahel in the bot lane. So these are some players that we've seen around the scene. It's not like it's, oh, they're signing like, a bunch of people that we've never seen before. But it is funny to see four Korean flags next to the names. [00:28:58] Speaker A: In the middle. But Hambock is the jungler coming in. So let's talk about Hambock. Does anybody have information on this guy? I know nothing about this player. [00:29:05] Speaker D: Yeah, he spent two years in KT Challenger was in the. Okay, okay, bro. Credit Brion. [00:29:16] Speaker D: Ecosystem last year. He's. He's a player that plays League of Legends. [00:29:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:25] Speaker D: I'll tell you that much. [00:29:29] Speaker D: Yeah. Okay. [00:29:32] Speaker A: Does he speak English, or is this going to be a team liquid with APA situation all over again? [00:29:39] Speaker D: I think you know the answer to that. [00:29:43] Speaker A: That's going to be interesting to see. [00:29:46] Speaker C: Best Jungler in the LCK Challengers League twice in the spring and summer of 2024. [00:29:54] Speaker A: Okay, well, hey, that actually is a little Better because at least that's like some accolade that he picked up. Yeah, I'm questioning decisions because again, to Lennon's point here, they're the new org coming in. They already publicly communicated. They're gonna go a little budget. They're not trying to make a splash right away. This is not what I envisioned. When they communicate that, I would think more that their roster is gonna look like a DSG or a FlyQuest roster where it's like. Because we haven't talked about DSG yet, but they got Kryra and Sajid coming in to. To Tier two players getting the call up. So it's like. That's more of what I thought Sentinels was gonna look like was these call ups with a couple of established players. Like Impact. Makes total sense if you have like Impact who he Rahel. But then like Sammy can and I blanking on. Like any of the other tier 2 junglers that would maybe be ready for the call of cry was like the big one. [00:30:53] Speaker A: But yeah, like, it's just weird. It's weird to see that this was the route that they went down. [00:30:59] Speaker B: But. [00:30:59] Speaker A: But again, Impact and Huhi at this point, they're. They're both NA resident players. So yes, they got the Korean flag next to them, but they don't take up import slots. I think it makes total sense. They've. They're na. Like we've claimed them. They're. They're NA players. Impact world title is an NA World title at this point. [00:31:17] Speaker A: No, no. [00:31:18] Speaker B: I'm claiming some people that don't agree with that. [00:31:21] Speaker D: It happened in North America. [00:31:23] Speaker A: It's. It's ours. And then Rahel, I think was like the best part of. [00:31:31] Speaker A: A blanket right now. Dsg. [00:31:32] Speaker C: Last year they just joined Dark Wings. Rahel, who he from dsg. [00:31:37] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. And like that. That looked like that was how they almost won a couple of their games like that. They almost beat C9 in that series, if you remember. And it was like Rahel Gigaherion. So I actually think that this team could do well. [00:31:52] Speaker A: It's just. Yeah, not. Not what I expected, but a team that I am going to celebrate a little bit more is DSG's roster coming in here. They have one questionable signing, but I'm gonna give them credit for two Gigachad signings. So the roster is looking like Castle in the top lane. He's the only player sticking around. Then they have Kryra jungle, a tier 2 North American player coming in from Canada. Call me in the mid lane. Maybe. Maybe Not Sajid in the bot. See what I did there? Anyway, Sajid in the bot lane with Lions at support. So Lions coming in from Lion. Sajid Cryra getting the call up. Castle returning and call me as the new Korean mid laner coming in. Will he join the legacy of revolving door Korean mid laners? Yet to be determined. But does anybody have information on call me any. Any stories? [00:32:45] Speaker C: Certainly a choice. [00:32:49] Speaker D: Again it's a. It's a player that plays League of Legends. [00:32:51] Speaker C: So T is Korean. He plays League of Legends. [00:32:59] Speaker A: Surely there's more than that. [00:33:00] Speaker C: Well, he spent a long time. Well I say a long time. He spent like a year with Nongshim's Academy team this past year he was in the EU Master Systems on Misa Esports in Turkey. And he's a player. [00:33:23] Speaker D: He plays the video game. [00:33:25] Speaker A: Yeah but again I'm giving him credit for Cry Rasaja but this one again question marks around it. [00:33:30] Speaker C: This one, this one hurts me. I just don't understand it. [00:33:33] Speaker A: It's the fact that we lost Toasty to EU and there's like we got Palafox and Kvi. [00:33:42] Speaker A: Mizelle earlier you had mentioned DSG though you name dropped them as one that you were upset with. Is this why was specifically the middle lane. [00:33:50] Speaker A: We might have lost Mizell here. I'm not sure if he is still with us currently but I'm gonna assume chalk it up to the mid lane focus there because I know Cryra and Saja players that we've been talking about for a while as exciting prospects, exciting players to come into the the tier one ecosystem. So that's where I'm gonna be paying attention. Castle as well. I just feel like he's been cursed from the Immortals roster to last year's DSG roster. He's still not a terrible player like for top laners. I think if you give him a good roster he actually could surprise you. But he just hasn't had really stellar rosters around him to stand out. [00:34:25] Speaker C: And I think that's part of the issue Disguised runs into is being that guest spot. You are the less desirable destination because you're gonna have to fight for your spot. And there's no guarantee that hey if I sign a multi year deal I may not be in tier one for multiple years. So players are going to want to go elsewh seen by the fact that the core they had of dark wings Rahel Huhi just got snatched up by a team that is set in their ways in tier one. So I understand them going a certain way to try and stabilize themselves to ensure they can defend their tier one spot. I just don't know that call me is the right way to go with that. [00:35:10] Speaker A: It's. It's a bit of a gamble and I feel I just again, branding wise, if you're trying to be like the NA guest team and defend your spot, sure it makes a little more sense. But if you're trying to focus on NA fans as well and build your brand in the scene, just feels like this is a questionable move to go down. But we've seen teams do it before. Sometimes they find success, sometimes we get the quids. Sometimes. If you want to lump quad into that as well, I think he's like a more middling success story. But he still found success. Right, right. Like it can happen where we find these Korean players that actually do stick with the roster. [00:35:47] Speaker D: I mean, I think the. I think that player is here now. I. I mean at least one of the ones that I can think of is here now. So I mean actually. Did they officially announce Shopify. Officially announced? [00:36:02] Speaker C: Yes, they officially. He's officially announced. [00:36:05] Speaker D: Okay. Yeah, that's the one. [00:36:08] Speaker A: Shopify, their. Their mid laner announced. [00:36:10] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:36:10] Speaker C: Xena is officially. That's the type of player you burn the import. That's who you want to bring over. That's. That's the golden goose. [00:36:18] Speaker A: That's. [00:36:19] Speaker D: I mean, like I said at the beginning of this Daystar, like Daystar is a player that you could come over still young enough that you're. He's still learning the game, but at the same time like not as high level of a prospect as like Hongq is now that honky's going to LPL instead. But like. [00:36:38] Speaker D: You, you go get players like that. You don't go get players like call me who are, you know, to two stops past redemption at this point. Like, you gotta. You gotta go for. You gotta. If you're gonna do it, you gotta go big. [00:36:55] Speaker B: I think that maybe I'm a little cynical on it still. But like, I immediately start thinking of like a Prince story where this guy was. So, I mean, yes, it took him a little bit to get to that mountaintop faster than obviously this guy has in Challenger. But. [00:37:13] Speaker B: I feel like it's the player putting a lot more risk on their career than it is the org. Like the org gets to win out on. On the off season technically because so many teams were looking for forward to sign him and they kind of just dropped the bag for him. But it's a situation where like if he doesn't Succeed. If he doesn't do well. [00:37:32] Speaker B: Prince is like, jobless, right? Like, that man ain't even playing. [00:37:35] Speaker A: You can ruin your career by doing poorly. [00:37:38] Speaker B: Literally ruin your entire career instead of having stayed at home in Korea and been like this budding prospect that everybody wanted to have. So I wish him the best. I'm excited that he's there. I know Shopify is extremely excited. I even got a random message from Alejandro, like, I can't believe we signed like, in all caps. It was so fucking funny and. But I'm excited for them, I think. Again, I agree. Like, if you're going to sign somebody mid, don't. Don't make it. Sorry, Team Liquid. Don't make it. Some rando like fucking Morgan that you sign. Bring over 2022. [00:38:11] Speaker D: Morgan would be great for this roster, but unfortunately it's 2026 now, so I. [00:38:17] Speaker B: Am so upset with them right now. Like, I. God, man, it's so mind blowing. [00:38:21] Speaker A: You know what I'm upset with? I'm upset with badger just saying 2026 because that broke my brain and I'm not ready. Ready to process that. So let's move on here and we're in the future. One more team to. To cover here and then one variety topic. Crazy. We're still on the roster part here, but we'll. We'll get through a couple roster moves. Yeah, the last one is Lion. Just confirming Inspired. So we already had the rumor, but lion now has come out and said it. So it's looking like the roster is a muto inspired saint. Berserker Isles. That's my front runner for best roster. I feel like lion, they. They win the off season. I know Berserker didn't look as good at the end of his tenure in NA than he did at his peak, but I still think like, compared to the field, he'll be a great AD carry. An inspired saint. I'm actually very excited for that combo of players. The only concern I have is that Inspired is a very intense player and saint. I have heard he can sometimes struggle with mental in games. Like if they throw a lead. He struggles to like maintain mental. So I'm just like. [00:39:23] Speaker D: And as you saw by the Flyquest do, Inspired is the pinnacle of mental. [00:39:27] Speaker B: The same, you know? [00:39:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So that's the only concern. But like on paper, skill wise for players, I feel like this. This roster is looking fierce. It's gonna be. Them are probably like C9 or Shopify. [00:39:40] Speaker B: That are. [00:39:41] Speaker A: That are my. My top three right now. Currently I got lion kind of in that first one. But it honestly might be shopify if their middle and it works out for them so. [00:39:51] Speaker A: Okay, cool. That's all the roster moves that we had to catch up on. We took the last weekend or last week off because of Thanksgiving. So it was two weeks of news. We'll have some more probably for next week, but one. Oh what? [00:40:03] Speaker C: Yes. [00:40:04] Speaker B: What about one of one of the worst regions on the planet in the lpl. [00:40:10] Speaker A: Would you like to do an LPL. [00:40:11] Speaker C: Update here before he gets we have. [00:40:15] Speaker B: A majority of the rosters confirmed. [00:40:19] Speaker A: Okay. I didn't understand any of that. For me that was a little over talk. But let's go mazel talk to us about what's going on with LPL right now. [00:40:28] Speaker B: I'll just cover a couple of the big rosters. There's a lot of shitter rosters guys. I'm just saying a lot of the LPL ain't looking that great. But Al resigned everybody, which is awesome. Flandra was one of the big ones that was maybe not going to make it, but he got resigned because they couldn't sign anybody else because of the weird ass rules. Right now. Unfortunately Tabe is gone. But that brings me to my next part where he's going to jdg which is also a very fucking weird roster. [00:40:59] Speaker D: It's so weird. [00:41:00] Speaker B: I love it. They they're bringing over Junju and Hong Kong from from cfo, which is awesome. I have those two. Then they're pairing Gala and Vampire for some reason. The bot Lane, which is going to be very interesting. And Shaoxu, who is one of the best top laners in 2025. BLG is my favorite team. Nobody can say anything bad about them around me or I'll explode like a nuclear bomb. [00:41:20] Speaker D: I can't wait for them to get. [00:41:21] Speaker B: Third, fourth night Viper and on they they are my hope. They are my only hope. They are my Obi Wan. We'll see if they actually do good. I'm very excited to see the team back together. I'm really excited to see Viper or Husband back in the lpl and I'm excited to see what he can do better than El. But I think Shun is the real linchpin here. I think he's going to bring the team back together. I think that's huge. [00:41:46] Speaker B: TS looking a little bit weird. There's going to be probably some breaks coming, especially for Jackie Love. They lost kanavi to HLE so it's going to be 369nayo, which is one of the new jungle Prospects is coming up very aggressive. Jungler Cream still going to be there. Jackie loves there. JI is going to be his replacement if he takes a break or when he takes a break break. And he's an okay bot. Laner makes a lot of mistakes in lane which is tough. And then they're having Yue which is prospect support coming through. Besides that. [00:42:21] Speaker B: Weibo got Elk Erha who's an up and coming support but also middling Shaohu still on that roster. Somehow JJ finally got signed to another team for Weibo. Every other roster is like a mismatching of a but like imports LDL players and maybe like one strong well known player from the last three years because of the drafting setup that they had. [00:42:44] Speaker A: So yeah, I was gonna say was that directly because of like the pool drafting. Because we, we explained that on previous episodes that like players are now in school and then or did to like kind of like bet or not bet on them. They get a bid bid on them. Right? [00:42:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And the bidding process is actually super small because a lot of the players were already signed before the bidding process us which is hilarious. [00:43:07] Speaker B: A lot of weird rosters right now. OMG is just an absolute mess. Only one person has been confirmed and that's high chow which I don't think anybody wants their one player to be confirmed being high chow on any of their teams. We'll see what they end up getting elsewhere. Some of the best like rookies from 2025 have been the kind of like scattered to the wind. You'll see like one of them on every team pretty much. But there's a lot of really wonky rosters and there's going to be a lot of new new names in the LPL this year and a lot of players taking breaks are not not on teams. So it's gonna be really interesting. [00:43:42] Speaker B: All right, cool. We lost a lot of players to to the lck. [00:43:46] Speaker A: Oh yeah, yeah. I we. We covered some of those moves back two, two weeks ago but odds just vibe check. How strong is LPL going to be of a regen this next year? Like are the top teams maintaining at least like some stars good enough that the it's going to be a top heavy region that can compete or do you think? [00:44:06] Speaker B: Yeah, the whole region is down 100. It's just gonna be a top heavy region. [00:44:10] Speaker C: Okay. [00:44:10] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:44:11] Speaker B: My biggest worry is the practice they'll get over the year because I think that's gonna be worse especially with some of the fucking weird ass format that they're going to be running. [00:44:20] Speaker B: But should Be interesting nonetheless. And I still think like the top two, three teams will be heavy hitters. [00:44:27] Speaker A: Okay, cool. Well that's the LPL update there then. Now to give a little bit of like a mini LCK update because this is the final bit of global News. We have Cloud 9 and Team Liquid for the first time in history will be, well, North. Oh no, not the first time. [00:44:47] Speaker D: So technically speaking, North American teams have played in Korea, like in tournaments, but it was back when it was OG and the champions back in 2012. [00:44:56] Speaker A: Well then I'm just. Haha. For the first time. [00:45:00] Speaker B: Stick with it. Confidence. Confidence. [00:45:02] Speaker D: Yeah, with your chest. [00:45:03] Speaker A: Anyway, two teams from NA are going to the KESPA cup. And not only that, Bickle, where can people watch it if they want to follow along the action? And how Cloud9 and Team Liquid fare against the LCK teams in what is. [00:45:19] Speaker C: Just the pinnacle of. Of time being a loop. You're not going to be able to find this on YouTube. Not going to find this on Twitch. You're going to be able to find this on Disney plus. [00:45:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Hey, Mickey. [00:45:35] Speaker A: Dude, I just. I love it. And you say times a circle because if anybody remembers the old Bam Tech deal and that controversy back in the day, like 2018, 2019, Riot Games was developing their own streaming platform that was gonna basically like rival Twitch, Netflix type of thing. And they were gonna put all their esports on it. They were gonna put Arcane and like their shows and stuff on it. And this was part of them, like expanding to be a global like entertainment giant rather than just a video game giant at the time. But then Disney swept in and bought the. The website that was being developed for Riot, that bamtech, the company was developing for Riot, and that became Disney plus. So now in a very funny, roundabout way, Ryan is broadcasting on the platform that would have been theirs if Disney didn't drop like a billion dollars to buy it. [00:46:30] Speaker D: Yeah, shit's so weird. It's so funny. [00:46:34] Speaker A: But I think it's cool that we are on a stream. [00:46:37] Speaker D: It's great. No, it's fantastic. [00:46:39] Speaker B: Yeah, like the first time I saw like Heroes of the storm on fucking ESPN5. [00:46:44] Speaker D: Oh God, don't remind me of those days. [00:46:48] Speaker B: Yeah, dude, that. Those were the OG hgc. [00:46:53] Speaker A: And that was back when esports. I know we're like esports, winter maybe turning into a spring here soon, hopefully. But things have been kind of generally down when it comes to esports news on the industry side, like the business side. But back then when it was on espn, that's when we were Riding the high, baby. That was when it was like esports is the future. Like, look at all this cool excitement happening. We're getting mainstream. And this is echoes of that for sure. So I think it's cool. I have a Disney plus subscription. Sorry. To anybody who does not have one and wants to watch along. But I'll check out some of the games. I think that sounds pretty fun. But beyond that, Bickle, who's C9's first opponent and even more than that, what's their group look like? [00:47:32] Speaker C: So the way Casper cup is broken up is it will be broken into three groups. Two groups of five and a group of four. The top team from each group automatically qualifies to the top four knockouts stage. The second place team in every group will then play a mini like Swiss to decide who moves forward into that final spot. We mentioned that Cloud 9 and Team Liquid will be playing. They'll be using their rosters for the 2026 season. They've officially locked those in. So we will be seeing APA on Cloud nine as well as Morgan, Jose Dioto and Quidd joining Team Liquid along with the 10 standard LCK teams who will be playing with their main rosters. Due to this having implications, it is required that players play in this Kesper cup to be able to qualify for Asia Games next year, which is the tournament Korean players can play in to get exempt from military service. So it's kind of a big deal. [00:48:33] Speaker B: The Military Cup. [00:48:35] Speaker A: Yeah. In the past, teams would often run their academy players or at least like a couple of them in to give them some reps on the stage. But there's much bigger incentive for the actual rosters to play this time. [00:48:46] Speaker C: So along with those 10 Korean teams plus Cloud 9 and Team Liquid, they have invites to Japan and Vietnam to send some players over. Cloud nine. Rest in peace. I will put it like that. Their group is Gen G. [00:49:06] Speaker C: Hanwha Life. [00:49:09] Speaker C: Fear X and Vietnam. I remind you that only the top two teams have a chance to move on. And they are in a group with Gen G and Hanwha Life. [00:49:20] Speaker D: Yep. [00:49:22] Speaker B: Yo, I mean Hanwha Life lost Peanut and lost Viper. Gg, bro. Kanavi's not gonna fix that. No, I'm just. [00:49:29] Speaker A: Yeah, you know what? No, I like the copium. [00:49:31] Speaker B: No, no. Yeah, yeah. [00:49:32] Speaker D: You know they got rid of. They lost viper. Who's this A.D. carry that. That they. They. [00:49:36] Speaker B: They picked up some rando that sucked ass on JDG all year this year. It's crazy. [00:49:41] Speaker C: Never heard of him. [00:49:43] Speaker A: Yeah, not sure. Not sure. [00:49:44] Speaker C: Zayu They've never done anything. They can't win any sort of tournament whatsoever. [00:49:49] Speaker A: Look, all I'm gonna say. All I'm gonna say is it doesn't matter if C9 get destroyed. They benefit from playing against Gumayushi at one point in this. In this, you know, group. So they're gonna get the viewership bump for sure. But dude, APA's first. Like, actual games on C9 are gonna be against Jovi. [00:50:10] Speaker C: APA is playing against Chovy, Zecca and Daystar. [00:50:16] Speaker B: Hey, they're keeping. They're keeping the track record of hundred thieves that worlds, you know, just get all the worst opponents. [00:50:23] Speaker D: Exactly. [00:50:24] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:50:24] Speaker C: The good news. Well, that's the bad news for NA fans. The good news is Team Liquid actually has a chance because I mentioned that there were two groups of five. Team Liquid got drawn into the group before. Now, will they get first place in this group? No, because T1 is in their group. [00:50:44] Speaker B: But they also have some rando adc. [00:50:47] Speaker D: Yeah. Some piss random. [00:50:49] Speaker B: Who's. [00:50:49] Speaker C: Yeah, never heard of that. Who's this mid laner, though? [00:50:52] Speaker A: Peas. Peas. [00:50:54] Speaker B: Pepes. [00:50:54] Speaker A: Pepes. [00:50:56] Speaker C: This weird mid laner called Faker or something. I don't know. [00:51:00] Speaker B: Never heard of this guy. I've never heard of it, but. [00:51:03] Speaker C: So that's the bad news for Team Liquid. The good news is, in their group is Japan, who as a national team doesn't necessarily have the strongest lineup put together. And the team they'll basically be competing with for second place is Nongshim. [00:51:16] Speaker B: So Japan doesn't even have a League of Legends team in the LCP anymore, right? [00:51:21] Speaker D: No, they're in. LCO is out. [00:51:25] Speaker C: Oh, speaking of the lcp, rest in peace, Flying Oysters. You had one great season and your roster got ripped apart. [00:51:32] Speaker B: Money. [00:51:35] Speaker B: Money is fuck nationalism. I love it though, because it's like the whole thing was like, represent all these players, like love their region, blah, blah, that instantly money, money, bucks comes in and like, no, you don't. [00:51:48] Speaker D: Shiny. The Chinese dollars came in and they're just like, oh, come play. And come play. [00:51:54] Speaker B: And are like, they get paid like that. [00:51:56] Speaker C: Oh, man, Ginger Hong Kong and Doggo. Like, we're the three best players in this region. We're not going anywhere. Dog was like, right, guys? [00:52:06] Speaker A: Right, guys? [00:52:07] Speaker B: Hey, guys, guys, wait. What did we say about that? Hold on, hold on. [00:52:11] Speaker C: You already got this paycheck. We're going to get ours. [00:52:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:16] Speaker A: But anyway, everybody go check out the Casper cup because again, Disney plus, pretty cool streaming platform. But also we get to see Team Liquid vs T1 get to see C9 vs Gen G and HLE very, very exciting matchups. And who knows, maybe TL even make it out of their group or at least it gets second place. So that way they get into like the other little, like, qualifier to make top four. [00:52:40] Speaker C: For anyone wondering, those games start. [00:52:44] Speaker C: Depending on if you're east coast or west coast, either Friday night or Saturday morning, Friday night at 10pm Pacific or Saturday morning 1am Eastern. [00:52:56] Speaker A: And that is perfect for us Pacific time because we can just do a watch party that night. [00:53:01] Speaker B: Let's go. [00:53:03] Speaker A: And also, it's just a weekend, so I mean, even if you're up till 3am not that I'm recommending you destroy your sleep schedule, but, you know, who cares? [00:53:09] Speaker D: I game start at 1am for me, but I definitely will be at least awake for, oh, I imagine the first games of for both teams. [00:53:19] Speaker C: And the great news, if you're a Cloud9 fan, your first game of the day is against gen G at 1am Two hours later, you have to play Hanwell. [00:53:28] Speaker A: I. [00:53:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:30] Speaker D: Good luck. [00:53:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:32] Speaker B: Gives them two hours to go to trauma counseling to talk it out with. [00:53:37] Speaker A: Their new head coach, Nick Smith, as to what went wrong there or what went right. Maybe they win, maybe they surprise us all. You never know. But we'll all find out on Friday, so make sure to set your alarms. But with that being said, that somehow we finally got through the global news. And guys, every time somebody, next time I start saying the words, it's gonna be a short episode, just like, reach through your monitor and slap me. Because that's never true. I thought it was gonna be a quick one, but you know what? We're still gonna have some fun to close out here and actually get to the world's finals tier list. This was something that I cooked up in my mind about a week ago and then in classic fashion, threw it together last second before going live for this episode. So we're gonna see how this is. [00:54:20] Speaker D: Didn't tell any of us. It was just like, hey, by the way, he told us this afternoon. But like, even then it was like. [00:54:27] Speaker D: It was like, all right, you know, let's do this. And it's like, okay. [00:54:31] Speaker A: My best ideas are almost always like, 10 minutes before it's time to execute them. And that's just my. My curse. But the way it's gonna work, we've done tier lists before on the podcasts. It's gonna be. We're. We'll do our best to communicate going forward for, like, audio listeners only. But then we'll also Screenshot and post it in the community discord. So shout out to anybody who's already joined there. If you haven't, you can find a link in the description where you're listening. But we have all 15 of the world's Finals matchups on A tier list maker and we're going to go in Snake draft order getting to pick one that we want to put on and we place it somewhere from S tier, A tier, B tier, C tier, D tier or F tier, which of course stands for Freaks Basement. Yes, I know his name starts with a pH, but it's, you know, it's funny. [00:55:16] Speaker D: You'll figure it out very quickly why that tier is called Freak Spaceman. [00:55:20] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly, exactly. [00:55:21] Speaker C: I wonder what could be going in Freak space. [00:55:24] Speaker A: We're gonna be putting these on based on whatever subjective rubrics we determine for whatever team we choose to put on or whatever. Sorry, not team, whatever matchup we choose to put on. I'm gonna be going on things like, you know, how impactful was the series in terms of like the, the, the, the narrative and like how good the games were and like the legacy of, of what that did for, for kind of like league ecosystem, stuff like that. That's what, what I'm going to weigh most of my stuff in like the S and A tier on. But full disclosure, I haven't even seen some of the World's Finals here on this list. So I'm going to be relying on some other people to put those ones on. But then at the very end, once we have all of them on the tier list, we go through one more time and everybody can move a choice up or down once. That was not one of the ones that they initially put on. So yeah. Any questions from the class? Are we ready to get into it? [00:56:22] Speaker D: I'm so excited for how poorly this is going to go. [00:56:24] Speaker A: Oh no, it's going to go great. It's going to go great. So I'm going to go first and I'm just going to get it out of the way and say, I think definitively the number one best World Finals of all time in the S tier. This is an easy pick for me. Season 12 DRX versus team. Yeah. I mean, yeah, underdog run for DRX. They went from the play ins all the way to finals and they upset T1 to get the win. This cinema, it checks all the boxes. The games were also great. I played Heimerdinger for like five months because of barrels in the finals. I just could stop playing it. So that's my Pick for my first choice. We're just gonna go in order of the discord call. So, Bickle, you will be up next, then Mazel. Then Badger for two in a row. So, Bickle, what would you like to put on there? [00:57:18] Speaker C: I will take the torch and bite the bullet and say, as fun as all of these are and as historic as this one is, for one very specific reason. It's called Phreak's Basement for a reason, and I'm sorry. Season one Fanatic versus Against All Authorities, heading to the basement. [00:57:41] Speaker A: You know, that is what that tier was named for, so I think it's appropriate for that one to end up in there. [00:57:48] Speaker C: It will always be legendary as the first World Finals, but, I mean, come on. [00:57:55] Speaker A: Yeah, it was only EU and NA present in the tournament. It was EU versus EU in the finals. Yeah. A lot of reasons that. This one's, like, a little scuffed, but still, it's legacy. It's what it planted the seed for, what would grow to. To the legacy of Worlds. And I think it's still. I fully believe and agree with Riot that they always still include Fnatic as a symbol on people that have won Worlds because we wouldn't have what we have now if it weren't for that first year. So, got to give credit there, but it wasn't Freaks Basement. All right, Fazell, you're up next. [00:58:31] Speaker B: This is a hard one. [00:58:32] Speaker A: It is tough. [00:58:33] Speaker B: You guys took the easy one. [00:58:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:37] Speaker A: Oh. [00:58:38] Speaker B: Oh. Just for the spite of it. You can only move it one space. [00:58:43] Speaker A: Oh, no. [00:58:45] Speaker D: I hate you already. [00:58:48] Speaker B: Season 15 T1 vs. KT Rolster in the fucking D tier. What? [00:58:56] Speaker A: Wow. [00:58:57] Speaker D: That's out of spite, baby. [00:58:58] Speaker B: Long live the lpl. [00:59:00] Speaker A: Whoa. That's crazy. All right. I. I'm telling you right now, I'm moving that one up. I'm 100% moving that one up. That's. I would have put that in, like, A tier or B tier. [00:59:12] Speaker B: I'm not thinking logically, Kangas. There ain't no logic here. [00:59:16] Speaker A: No. You know, shame on me. [00:59:19] Speaker B: For spite, for. [00:59:20] Speaker A: For not not giving an official rubric to grade off of. I did tell everyone subjectively, whatever you want. [00:59:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Whatever I felt. And that's what I feel. [00:59:29] Speaker A: All right. [00:59:29] Speaker D: I knew this was gonna happen as soon as. [00:59:31] Speaker B: This. [00:59:31] Speaker D: As soon as he said it, you know? So now we can get him back by putting as a big you to you, Miselle. [00:59:38] Speaker B: I'm gonna go. [00:59:40] Speaker D: Give me season 13 T1 versus Wavo and put that in Freaks Basement as well as SKT versus Royal Club and season three put that in freaks basement as well. Both of those were fucking piss worthless. The Chinese teams just decided not to show up. They're just like damn, God those, those series could have been a fucking email. Like. [01:00:04] Speaker D: Like okay, it's so great to watch the player. If Kangas, I need you to go back and I need you to watch game three of season three Fox Finals and just watch everybody on Royal Club just contemplate killing themselves on stage during the game. [01:00:23] Speaker B: So this was one of those ones. [01:00:25] Speaker A: Me and Badger talking before going live about like I, I, this is one of the World's Finals I haven't seen. And I was like you know what, maybe I should actually watch all the World's Finals before this episode. And he was like you don't need to watch that World's Finals. What I will say though, and this is I think giving a discredit to the T1 Weibo Worlds finals. I know it was a very one sided series but this was T1 beating back to back to back LPL teams. Remember they headshotted all the Chinese teams left the tournament here. [01:00:57] Speaker B: No, I agree. [01:00:57] Speaker D: So like the storyline behind it is great because like Faker just proving himself as like the LPL killer. Like and the start of you know, three straight Worlds world titles at this point. The start of the, the three peat. But like at the same time. [01:01:13] Speaker D: It could have been an email. [01:01:14] Speaker C: Like that's why this is a World Finals tier list and not a world's tier list. [01:01:20] Speaker D: Exactly. [01:01:21] Speaker A: But, but because it is in my mind the context around this was the final LPL team and they, it was, this was the legendary call. It's not, you know, LCK versus LPL. It's T1 versus LPL. And they like those odds or I forget exactly what like the, the. [01:01:36] Speaker C: No, you're dead on. [01:01:37] Speaker A: Sorry Dr. Dracos. But great call, you know like so in that sense I wouldn't put it Freak's basement. I would understand maybe more like a C or a D tier. But hey you, you put it and I'll respect that. That means it's back to mazel though. And I'm already getting a little nervous for how we're. [01:01:55] Speaker A: So miselle. What you got here? [01:01:59] Speaker B: Do IG vs Fnatic on B tier. [01:02:02] Speaker A: I like that. Dude, that was a fun finals. Watching EU just get their teeth kicked. [01:02:06] Speaker B: Kicked in also could have been an email, but still very fun. [01:02:08] Speaker A: But. [01:02:09] Speaker B: But this one, that's where we got the Elder Dragon. [01:02:12] Speaker A: True. Yeah. The Aatrox big slam dunk. Also the Again, context around this one. This was a rematch. They were in the same group. And didn't Fnatic take first in that group? [01:02:22] Speaker C: I'm pretty sure they split 1:1. They played a tiebreaker game that Fnatic won. [01:02:27] Speaker A: Yeah. And so this was like going into this world's finals. It was like our Fnatic favored. Like Fnatic are probably favored. Right? And then all the predictions were fnatic, Fnatic, Fnatic. And remember this because to my the end of my days, Jat is my goat. He just goes, no, it's. It's ig, guys, I got a three zero. And he predicted the three zero. And everyone got mad at him. And it actually happened. I was like, that's so funny, dude. [01:02:53] Speaker C: You are slightly misremembering it because what you're thinking of was the semifinals versus G2 is when Jet predicted the 3 0. Oh, was that because that was both Frost Gear and And. [01:03:08] Speaker C: Not Dracos. What's his name. [01:03:12] Speaker C: Work for Misfits. [01:03:15] Speaker A: Oh, Yamato. [01:03:16] Speaker D: Yamato. [01:03:16] Speaker C: No, not your mother. There you go. [01:03:19] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:03:19] Speaker C: Frost, Garen and Deficio both predicted G2 in 3.2fashion. Jet predicted IG in 3.0fashion. In the finals, Frosk picked IG 3.2, Yamato picked Fnatic 3.2and Jet picked IG 3.1. [01:03:38] Speaker A: Okay, well, hey, I was close. [01:03:40] Speaker C: Don't question me why I remember this stuff. It's really stupid. [01:03:44] Speaker A: I was gonna say that's wild that you actually did remember, but you know, I thought I remembered, but historically and notably terrible memory. But either way, it was a rematch. It was a cool World's Finals. I think B tier makes a lot of sense for it. Bickle, you're up next. [01:03:58] Speaker C: You mentioned Jack. Great predictions. I'm gonna throw another one right up there. There. FPX versus G2. Everyone predicting G2 to win before Jack flexes his prediction to a 31 FPX, which ends up being a 3 off PX. I'm going to put it C tier because it was kind of. It's kind of boring. But still good on FPX to upset FPX with the upset was great, but really it just wasn't that strong of finals. [01:04:25] Speaker A: I agree. I feel like this one was just a little awkward in terms of like, oh, it's back to back EU versus China. That's cool. Back to back three O's. Like the first time I think it's a little less painful. But then the second time, when it happens twice in a row, you're like oh. But again, credit where it's due. You made World Finals two years in a row. [01:04:46] Speaker C: So we could have called them the two biggest stomps in world finals. But then Way Bo happened. [01:04:53] Speaker A: Then the Weibo did happen. Happen T1 Waybo. Let's go. Okay. [01:04:57] Speaker B: So funny about that Weibo team is that they literally, the real team, took a vacation for like 98% of worlds and the real team came back for finals and. And lost the game. It was great. Somebody replaced them, body swapped them for like all of us because their run was actually pretty nuts. Like very gritty. And then 30 in the finals was great. [01:05:19] Speaker A: All right, well that leaves me and I get two in a row. I'm gonna pick two here and I'm gonna get some revenge against Maz. I'm gonna take EDG versus Damwon Gaming Kia and I'm not gonna go as crazy with it, but I think I'm gonna put it C tier mostly because it wasn't that memorable. Like I. I don't. You ain't. [01:05:44] Speaker B: You ain't remembering right. [01:05:46] Speaker C: That's crazy. [01:05:48] Speaker A: Well, what do we. What do we think? Why am I wrong? [01:05:50] Speaker C: Bickle? [01:05:52] Speaker C: It was a five game series. [01:05:56] Speaker C: EDG were the underdogs that entire series. [01:05:59] Speaker A: Name three things that happened in that series. [01:06:02] Speaker C: Scout picked up Zoe in the deciding game and popped off. That was when Khan picked up Graves and just couldn't make the difference for his team. And also Flandres. Graves was the making was the ghost was just. [01:06:18] Speaker D: Yeah, the biggest fraud. [01:06:19] Speaker A: I asked the wrong person to make a point. Mizel, name three things. [01:06:23] Speaker B: No, he's already doing it for me. [01:06:26] Speaker A: All right, well hey, I. In my mind when I think back to World's Finals I have memories and stories for like every one of these Vipers of Felios. I just can't really remember like edg versus dom1 gaming. So for that it just didn't make a big enough impact. I'm throwing it C tier. Someone can feel free to move it later. Another one that made a bigger impact on on me was season seven Samsung Galaxy versus skt. I'm throwing that in the A tier. Samsung get revenge for the previous year where they lost to skt. It was the first time it was a rematch in World's Finals and just like a a big moment in time for league esports as well. Just I think that like this was when Worlds was the most hype for me in of terms terms of legacy building. I know it's only season seven. There were only seven of them. But this is where Legacy started to become a thing. Because it's like, oh, T1 have a chance for their third world's finals. Or sorry, fourth at this point. Right. But they were denied The. The. The 3 Pete by Samsung Galaxy in a rematch, which is really cool because we hadn't had a rematch before. Unless you want to consider like previous. Oh, wait, no, no. T1 first it was versus Royal Club. Yeah. Yeah. So that. That's my choice there. Samsung Galaxy versus SKT from season seven goes in a tier. That means it's back to. Unless. Do. Do people have thoughts? Am I getting Flash? [01:07:52] Speaker D: The Flash Vera. Salty Catching Faker. [01:07:55] Speaker C: Great moment. [01:07:58] Speaker D: The Unkillable Demon King is. Yeah, this. [01:08:02] Speaker C: It was a 3. 0. [01:08:04] Speaker D: It was a 30 is the only thing. But like I said, think. I think like narrative wise and vibes wise. Like A is perfect for it. But like series wise, it's like it's. [01:08:13] Speaker C: If you're basing it off of narrative, it's great. If you're basing it off of series itself. [01:08:18] Speaker A: In my mind, a 3. 0 is like a point off, but it's not a make or break because as long as the games are still good, then I'll. I'll allow a 3.0. If it's a 3.0 stomp, that's a different story. But if it's 3.0 and there's like tense moments, that. That's what I like. But Pickle, you're up next. So what would you like to throw on there? Please start doing season one four or five because I can't do well, I'm. [01:08:44] Speaker C: Sorry to say I'm taking season 14 and putting it. Damn it here. [01:08:48] Speaker A: Season 14 BLG in S tier. [01:08:52] Speaker D: Okay, great series. [01:08:56] Speaker D: Fantastic. [01:08:57] Speaker C: Would be the best if not for season 12. [01:09:01] Speaker A: So this was a five game banger. BLG almost pulled it off after getting. I think the BLG narrative was almost stronger coming into this one because this was like they lost in semis to Weibo the year before and then they 30 Weibo in semifinals this year to be like, okay, now we get to see what we can do against T1 in the finals. And they almost, almost got it done as well. [01:09:27] Speaker A: Yeah, this was. [01:09:28] Speaker C: They made the fatal mistake of going up 2:1 against SKT. [01:09:34] Speaker B: I feel like season 14 was the year of ADCs. Man, I feel like so many ADCs and quarterfinals and semis just pop the hell off. Like you think of so many Kaisa and Ezreal plays from all the different top 80s. Carries it was so insane, man. [01:09:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And what was Faker's quote for this one? It was like, last year was for my team. This year was for you or something like that. [01:09:54] Speaker C: This year's. Yeah, something like that. [01:09:56] Speaker A: Yeah. So that had a good catchphrase for it also with the. With the T1 win. Yeah, I like that. I think that in S tier, interestingly enough, the only two in S tier currently are both from within the last couple of years, season 12 and season 14. So just. Just noting that. But that means it is down back to Moselle. Moselle. What would you like to put in. In the tier list? [01:10:20] Speaker B: I'm gonna go with Taipei Assassins versus Zubu Frost and A tier, because that was the first skin I ever bought. [01:10:27] Speaker D: Damn. [01:10:28] Speaker B: You. [01:10:30] Speaker D: Stole my thunder. Damn it. [01:10:33] Speaker C: Upset was great. [01:10:34] Speaker A: And this was the one where they were the underdogs. Everyone thought a Zubu Frost was like a shoe into win. [01:10:40] Speaker D: They're basically like, you guys can, like, start, like, etching the names into the trophy of all the Azubu guys backstage. Like, there's no shot. And then the. And then it was. And then they were proven wrong. [01:10:53] Speaker B: And. [01:10:55] Speaker B: I. [01:10:55] Speaker D: There's one moment that's just. It sticks out to me, but it. [01:10:59] Speaker B: Was from a Zubu. [01:11:00] Speaker D: It was Rapid Star getting a quadra kill in game one with Carthusalty after dying in a team fight and almost getting a pentakill with the laser confirming everybody whose suspicions back then of just Karthus was op as. Yep, it was great. [01:11:17] Speaker A: Loved it. [01:11:18] Speaker D: 10 out of 10. [01:11:19] Speaker A: This is one that I actually have watched. I watched game one of this series. I didn't watch the whole thing, but I did go back because somebody was like, you got to go back. He's just like a fan of league history. Like, this is a big one. So I caught, like, the pre show and game one, so I understood, like, the context around it and, like, how shocked everyone was with how, well, type in Assassins were planes. So, yeah, I think that's a. That's a great nod, Mizzel, but that means it's Badger for two in a row up next here. So, Badger, what would you like to throw? [01:11:46] Speaker D: Oh, God. What damage can I do at this point? [01:11:49] Speaker A: Don't think of it that way. Think about, like, how well can I make a point for. [01:11:55] Speaker D: So I think the first one that I just need to do just because. [01:12:00] Speaker D: I. [01:12:03] Speaker D: I love this series. I love this team so much. [01:12:06] Speaker C: Much. [01:12:07] Speaker D: It's so unfortunate that they didn't win. [01:12:11] Speaker D: I don't know if I. I don't know which tier to put it in though? I'm gonna do season five SKT versus Coup. [01:12:20] Speaker A: Okay. [01:12:20] Speaker D: And I'm gonna put it in B tier. [01:12:23] Speaker A: Oh, SK versus Cootigers and B tier. All right. [01:12:28] Speaker D: Yeah, just. Just the two like powerhouse Korean teams coming in in following very similar paths to getting to the point where KU beat KT in quarters. SKT beat hq, I believe. And it was the Ori Hen and fanatic versus like the Orihan fanatic. Like oh, can they do it? Can they make the noise? Can they. They were in Europe. Can they do. Can they give some for the home home fans to cheer about? And then they collectively go 6 and 0 in the semifinals. And then SKT and Coup just have a fantastic series that just doesn't live up to the expectations. I think if it goes five, it gets remembered as one of the better series. Cuz I mean 2016 semis is still my favorite series I've ever seen in league history. [01:13:26] Speaker A: 3. Yeah, whoever puts season six out there has a pretty strong argument for like lowering it just because of that. But also this was the return of Faker so that. That was exciting. Yeah. He missed worlds a year before so he comes back first player to win two in a row. I believe. [01:13:42] Speaker A: It was him and his AD carry. Both did it together. Right. Weren't they the same from the. The previous roster? I'm trying to remember. [01:13:47] Speaker D: Bang bang. [01:13:49] Speaker A: That makes that. That sounds right. But I'm. [01:13:53] Speaker C: And. [01:13:55] Speaker C: Bengy. [01:13:56] Speaker A: Okay, so three of them then. Cool. [01:13:59] Speaker A: And then B tier makes a lot of sense. But you get one more. What do you want to put on there? [01:14:03] Speaker D: And then I. I mean I. I kind of shat on this organization once already in this exercise but season 4 Samsung White vs Starhorn Royal Club get Just put it in D tier. [01:14:16] Speaker A: I mean D tier. [01:14:17] Speaker D: They. It was a gentleman sweep. Samsung White played with their food for three three of the four games. The real final was White versus Blue. Like which it should have been. I mean that's why gripe with season 8 too is that IGKT was supposed to be should have been the final. But yeah, it is what it is. So I'm just gonna put it in D tier and we'll move on. [01:14:42] Speaker A: From the historical context I know of that worlds, that makes a lot of sense. Mazel. That means that you get one of two choices left. Season six and season ten have yet to be put on. [01:14:55] Speaker B: I'll do season. [01:14:59] Speaker A: Ten B tier Damwon Gaming versus Suning and B tier. This was the COVID year, the one. [01:15:06] Speaker D: That free spacement by. [01:15:08] Speaker A: I don't believe there was any live audience for this one. Right. Wasn't. I think it was a. [01:15:11] Speaker D: They played in a stadium. They had. They had limited cards. [01:15:15] Speaker B: There was like a limited invited party. [01:15:18] Speaker C: They were only like people. [01:15:21] Speaker A: No, I just remember that a lot of like the play ins and the group stage stuff was like. [01:15:25] Speaker B: Yeah, everything like the top of the. They kept making like. They would make like the fun of like oh, I'm gonna fall. [01:15:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:34] Speaker B: It was also shadow with mad lions. [01:15:36] Speaker A: Oh, true. That was. Yeah, yeah. Fun, fun worlds just for like how goofy it was because of the. The pandemic lockdown stuff. But for finals. Yeah, I think the B tier is pretty cool. I like liked how much hype Suning like they made me believe, man. I actually was. I believed in Suning going into this one despite how like strong dam one looked. But suning made me a fan and. [01:16:02] Speaker C: First pentakill on World Finals. [01:16:05] Speaker A: Oh, was that okay? [01:16:07] Speaker C: Yeah. Bin Fiora. [01:16:09] Speaker A: Hell yeah. [01:16:11] Speaker A: Okay, cool. Solid B tier. That means Bickle, you are the last one. Where would you like to to put Season 6 SKT vs Samson Galaxy? [01:16:21] Speaker C: I think I'm going to pop it right alongside its inverse series of season seven up in a tier. [01:16:28] Speaker A: Oh, you are putting it in a tier. Okay. Why. Why do you think it deserves a tier? [01:16:33] Speaker C: I think in terms of the series, I think it's a better series from a gameplay perspective than season seven. [01:16:41] Speaker A: Okay. [01:16:42] Speaker D: Okay. [01:16:43] Speaker A: It just didn't have the narrative behind. [01:16:45] Speaker C: It of like the as strong a narrative though. It was a really good series overall. It was SKT coming back and pulling it all together in that way. 3, 2 series are always great in that way. It was just crazy. [01:17:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. [01:17:06] Speaker D: It was the first five game series that we had the world Finals too. [01:17:10] Speaker C: Oh, it's a reverse sweep. Sorry, not. It was a near reverse sweep. [01:17:15] Speaker D: Comfort zone for down down one two. Comfort zone for skt. [01:17:21] Speaker C: No, SKT was up two zero or. [01:17:23] Speaker D: Were they up two zero? Oh, yeah, that's right. [01:17:26] Speaker D: Yeah. They almost threw it away. [01:17:29] Speaker A: I I know that this was also the. Was this. No, that was MSI that in 2015. Not even 2016. I'm on the completely wrong, you know, year. But where like the Morgana mid counter came in. That was crown played Malzahar. No, no, that was. That was the. The season seven and he played like you're thinking games in a row. [01:17:46] Speaker C: You're thinking season seven when they actually won the title. Yes. [01:17:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I'm getting those. [01:17:50] Speaker D: Morgana Pick was at MSI. [01:17:52] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Morgana Pick was against Fakers LeBlanc at MSI in 2015 from EDG. [01:17:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:17:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:17:59] Speaker A: Okay, cool. Well, season six SKT versus Samsung in a tier. I would have put it personally and this is where it's probably good. I didn't get this one I that in D tier because this was the year that CLG lost to Albus Knox Luna in groups and didn't make it out. And I'm still upset about it. So it would have spilled over to my hatred of the finals here. [01:18:18] Speaker A: But there we go. Also, just the fact that the semi finals was way more hype than this one but doesn't mean that this wasn't a a great finals. It just kind of took it away. But there we have it. So for anybody who wasn't writing it down, let me give a recap of all of the seasons in S. Here we have. Oh, oh right. Yes we do. We do have movement after this. But first, where things stand right now is season 12 and season 14 are in S tier. Season 7, 2 and 6 are in A tier. 8, 5 and 10 are B tier. 9 and 11 are C tier. 15 and 4 are D tier. And in Freak's basement more than I expected. We have season one, understandably season three and season three 13. Two different SKT versus LPL teams that were three O's and then Fnatic versus against all authority. But now we get to go through from top to bottom and each of us gets to move one one position. I'm going to start first. I'm immediately moving season 15T1 versus KT Rolster up to C tier. It was in D tier I think for the fact that it was the telecom wars in the world's finals and kt. We're so close, man. They always got it. Another five game world's final finals I think deserves a C tier listing for me. But Bickle, where would you like to put your movement? [01:19:41] Speaker C: I made my point when this originally was placed that I felt it was way too low. I'm moving edg versus dom1 up to b tier. [01:19:49] Speaker A: Okay. Honestly, fair enough. Fair enough. [01:19:52] Speaker C: Great five game series. Another upset in that sense of Damon being the favorites and finally being shut down by edg who have been having a really rough tournament, all things considered. I think they're the world champion with one of the lowest win percentages at the tournament. [01:20:10] Speaker A: And they also this was where LPL finally won a world's beating LCK because they beat EU for two other worlds championships. But they had not yet beaten Korea. [01:20:19] Speaker C: So they'd repeatedly beat them at msi, but could never beat them at Worlds. And they finally did here. [01:20:24] Speaker A: True. [01:20:24] Speaker B: Damn. Guys, remember when EU used to be good, right? [01:20:27] Speaker D: Imagine. [01:20:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Mazel. You are up next. What? Would you like to move up or down one spot? [01:20:39] Speaker B: Do I have to? [01:20:40] Speaker A: You don't. Yeah, if you don't want to, you do not have to take one. [01:20:49] Speaker B: No, I'm pretty happy with it. [01:20:50] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. I think that's the first time that's ever happened on one of these tier lists. You know, round of applause from AEL for looking at it. Say, this is burning. Perfect, Badger. Do you think it's perfect or do you want to move something? [01:21:02] Speaker D: Oh, God, no. There's so much that I want to move. [01:21:06] Speaker C: But you can only move one. [01:21:10] Speaker D: You know what? Just because this series being on the same tier as the other one that's on the tier, I need to move FPXG2 down to D tier because. [01:21:22] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [01:21:24] Speaker D: There is. There is no logical world where season 15 and season 9 finals should be on the same tier. [01:21:33] Speaker A: Yeah, it's either move season 15 up again or season 9 down 1. I think it makes sense. [01:21:38] Speaker D: He just gets too bloated at that point. [01:21:41] Speaker B: So. [01:21:42] Speaker A: It does feel bad to see season 15 in C tier, though. Oh, I loved this last World's Finals. [01:21:47] Speaker B: I thought it was fantastic. You're welcome. From the lpl. [01:21:55] Speaker A: All right, well, there we have it, everybody. The final definitive tier list. Undisputed. Some would say undisputable. [01:22:04] Speaker B: Obviously, there's a lot of disputing. [01:22:06] Speaker A: No, no. This is all of our brains combined to make this rundown proved. In s tier, season 12 DRX versus T1 and season 14 T1 versus BLG. A tier. We got season 7 Samsung Galaxy versus Sky SKT, season 2 Taipei Assassin versus Zubufrost, and season 6 SKT versus Samsung Galaxy. Then B tier. We got a lot in here. Season 8 IG vs Fnatic, Season 5 SKT vs Ku Tigers, Season 10 Damn 1 vs Suning. And 11 EDG vs Damwon Gaming. Season or C tier. Season 15 T1 vs KT roll series still brings me pain. D tier. Season 9 FPX G2 and Season 4 Samsung White vs Star Horn Royal Club. And all the way in Freak's Basement. Season 1 Fnatic versus Against All Authority, Season 3 SKT versus Royal Club and Season 13 T1 versus Weibo Gaming. We're gonna screenshot this and post this in the community. Discord. Thank you so much guys for creating this one with me. It was a longer episode than I was hoping it would be. But we got through it and I had a lot of fun with that. Hopefully you guys had some fun too. And let us know Community, if you agree or disagree. Flame Artist. [01:23:16] Speaker A: Glaze us if you think we're perfect. You know, whatever you feel like really. [01:23:20] Speaker D: You know, it really isn't whatever's floating your boat. [01:23:24] Speaker A: But yeah, Badger, if anybody really agreed not only with the tier list, but also just the episode in general, how many stars would you recommend that they leave on this episode? [01:23:35] Speaker D: I believe they should leave as many stars as it is necessary for games to be considered standard Nest here series. That would be five. [01:23:44] Speaker A: Okay. I like it. I like it. Five games. Yeah. That is what we have for DRX, T1 and T1BLG. Man, it's just crazy how much T1 is on here in SKT. They made finals so many times, dude. But yes, five would be fantastic. It helps us get the podcast growing more and get more people aware of it. And again, if you have not yet joined the community, Discord, the link is in the description. Description wherever you are listening. But that's gonna do it for this week's episode. We are full into off season, so we'll have some more fun, you know, themed episodes like this going forward. So make sure to stick around with us and we love you and we'll see you next time, everybody. Bye bye. [01:24:21] Speaker C: Peace.