League Rundown - Episode 568: 2236 days later

[00:00:13] Speaker A: Gets a little too far here, he's gonna have to try and get himself out. Let me go. Tillery and the rest of the shots of fire. Zion is just killing the next Zion can eat it single handedly win the game by game by game by game by should be. Oh my God. Stupid passes through and manages to the table with Messiah tanking it up. I do not believe he just believe. I cannot understand this game. Unicorns of love. It wasn't a mutant. They're Nexus. Hello and welcome to episode 568 of the League Rundown. This is your 2025 MSI play ins review and bracket stage preview. This episode is lovingly entitled 22, 36 Days Later. I am your host, Kangas. That name will make sense in a moment. But first we have to introduce my esteemed co host. Up first we have rejoining the pod. Welcome back Bickle. It's been a while. [00:01:35] Speaker B: Things have been chaotic but I can always make time to talk about MSI in the shit show that has been G2. [00:01:42] Speaker A: I. I will corroborate his story. The moment he hopped in the call and we were like Pickle. He was like I had to talk about how bad G2. So that will be a point of discussion. You just heard his chuckle as well and he's fresh out of the can. We also have joining us a badger. [00:01:58] Speaker C: So what happened 2,236 days ago, Kangas? [00:02:02] Speaker A: Well, fantastic that you asked because there's a certain little, you know, spree that NA's been on where we only beat western teams in order to make it out of play INS or brackets or whatever scenarios we have yet to really like do damage against specifically the LPL since 2019 MSI when Team Liquid took down IG. That was 2236 days ago as of the recording of this podcast episode. And wouldn't you. We're matched up against them again in the bracket. Hopefully we can end that streak. But to talk about our chances of doing that, we also have Mr. Mazelpl. [00:02:44] Speaker D: Hello. [00:02:45] Speaker A: Can we do it? [00:02:46] Speaker D: Chances are they're there. They're. They're saying there's a chance. [00:02:50] Speaker C: You're saying there's a chance they exist. [00:02:53] Speaker A: In as a statistical probability. [00:02:55] Speaker C: Yes. [00:02:56] Speaker D: Somewhere. [00:02:57] Speaker A: It is not somewhere floating around. Well, hey, this is the cast we have for tonight. Thanks for joining me everybody. Let's get through some of the global news pieces before we talk about what everyone's here to talk about, which is msi, which has been so far fantastic from a viewing perspective. We'll get all into that soon. But first up, roster news. A couple things happening over in eu. Up first, this is the big one people are talking about. Mostly just because it's confusing. Fnatic making a mid lane change and picking up Hoby. [00:03:31] Speaker B: I swear I saw this and I thought it was a joke. [00:03:34] Speaker C: I actually thought it was a. I thought you were getting like said I. [00:03:37] Speaker B: Thought it was one of those meme accounts. I had to double check to make sure it was the actual account because. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So Poby notable for being T1's kind of like academy or challenger mid laner. Playing behind faker currently, which means you're never gonna get play pretty much. It's happened a couple of times, but very rarely. And I mean, this does. It worked out with like berserker for a little bit, right? Just pick up a T1 Academy player and. And let him rip. But it does still raise question marks and. And eyebrows for sure. Badger, I want to get your thoughts on this because I know that you also paid a lot of attention to lck. [00:04:17] Speaker C: I. I mean, there was no spot in the LPL or the LCK for him, so it kind of makes sense for him to branch out. We've been seeing all these Korean challenger players going to different regions at this point, so it just seemed like the most obvious choice for him to make that jump. Good for him. He immediately, I think, becomes probably the second best mid laner in the region. I still think Caps is ahead of him at this point. I think Poby's really good. Like Poby next year would be getting. I don't. Well, I mean, I don't know how hard it is to get him out of T1, but I think he could be starting in the. He should have been starting in the LCK this year. Let's be honest. There's some teams that, I mean, Vick was on a team at this point, like, oh, if Vickler can be on a team, I think Poby, well, deserves a spot as well. [00:05:16] Speaker A: So then why is this a surprise if he is this good? If, like, people are hyped for him as just like a prospect and a player? Is it just because EU doesn't often pick up import Korean mid laners? Is it because you're surprised to see T1 let him go? Like, I've seen a lot of people be like, what is this move? And it's. I also hear conflicting reports of like, expectations for this player. [00:05:42] Speaker C: I mean, it's a little bit of both because you don't normally see Korean mids like this come to come to Europe. Because I mean, we've talked about EU Mids for the longest time, but at the same time you have to kind of remember that this. There's just such a wealth of talent in the east right now between the LPL and the LCK Academy teams, challenger teams, whatever you want to call them. And I. It just feels like the growth that can come from this of like, oh, we're actually branching out and starting to pick up like Korean challenger players. I mean, sooner or later they're going to have some of the other players come over. Like, who's next? Like, is Smash gonna come over and play with Reckless? Like some team, Some team and the bottom half. Maybe Navi if when this, when this Maorong switch. Oh, wait, shit, I destroyed the next news story. We haven't talked about that yet. Yeah, so Mao wrong switch. Role swapping to support. I mean, genuinely like Navi next year, if they want to make a splash, go, go get Smash. Go get Reckless to play support for him. They already have synergy. They played together in challengers in Korea already. Just like, I just have this weird feeling that we're like gonna start seeing more Korean players coming over to Europe from. [00:07:12] Speaker A: From what I hear, and I don't know how relevant this is this year. I haven't heard anything 2025, but I know 2023, 2024 budgets in EU were maintaining, if not increasing a little bit for player salaries while all the budgets in NA were collapsing because, like, we were going through a big restructuring phase and the bubble was definitely being felt of the pop over here. So the theory was, yeah, we probably start to see more imports in EU than we had in na because we don't have the budget, we don't have the, the money for it anymore. So this is like one of those dominoes falling. We've already seen a couple other ones. You know, we saw players like, like Ice, you know, coming in in recent years too. So they're pretty good showings, pretty good performances. Eyes will be very, very fixed on Poby is all we can say going forward here. And also what I can say is thank God we got Loki and Saint Baby. Hey, they can't take those from us. Lta. We picked up the other mid laners. One other piece of roster news bds. This isn't really roster news, but org News bds. It was just announced earlier today. As of date of recording, they're going for a full rebrand. I didn't read the full article, but based on the social media post and what BDS posted on social media. It really does feel like it's going to be like, like yeah, we're, we're starting from the ground up. Like CEOs changing, they're changing the structure of the support staff. They're gonna change the focus of like the, the vision of the team to be. Yes, they're still competing esports but they wanted to like really focus on like partnering with hospitals and like working with like kids with diseases to get them into gaming and stuff like that. I was like, wow, this is like a huge. This is a. Oh, it's one of the more well thought out rebrands and it was basically leaked and then confirmed by bds and it's like that's crazy that this, this is already so far along in development and this is the first we're hearing about it. Does anybody else like, did anybody else read the. The Sheep Esports article or like check out the, the news? [00:09:14] Speaker C: I didn't read it. [00:09:14] Speaker A: I didn't pickle any chance you read. I know. Well, no, this was me admitting I didn't read she article. But again, the BLG or not the blg, the BDS social media post, they put out like a two image graphic with like some explanation on it. So yeah, I mean we'll see what happens with that. They from my understanding were not one of the teams that was profitable in the LEC and was struggling a lot with like just maintaining fan interaction. So it's always dangerous to rebrand. Wishing them the best. It seems like they at least have a vision and a goal for the rebrand which sometimes, you know, you can't say that for every org and every team that goes for something like that. One other big news thing came up this last week. Anybody like to gamble? [00:10:01] Speaker C: Oh God. I know. [00:10:03] Speaker A: Any gamblers out there? [00:10:05] Speaker C: We have, we have strayed down this path. I'm. I'm curious to see where this goes. [00:10:12] Speaker A: Yes. So it was announced, Riot Global announced that gambling is going to be in for sponsoring so teams can be sponsored by gambling. I don't remember if there was anything about indie article about like the, the broadcast itself having a direct sponsorship with any gambling websites, but at least teams are now able to go for that but with strict regulations of like how much it's shown on broadcast and what they're allowed to show on broadcast. But at least they're opening the door. And this is something I know behind the scene a lot of teams have been asking for just because I mean if we're just Being honest, unless you're like, specifically Team Liquid, if you're not getting, you know, Saudi money or gambling money, it's so hard to make money in esports right now. This is one of the avenues to do so. And, you know, up for debate how much more, you know, aligned with certain morals. It is depending on where you stand on the topic because gambling has always been a hot button topic. But one thing I will say, I know Dom had a opinion on this that he tweeted about was like, the whole idea behind Riot in the past of stopping, like, gambling and alcohol sponsorships on the show outside of the brief tenure with Bud Light was that they're a video game and they market to children. So they don't want. Obviously you do not want to advertise gambling to children. That is terrible, as it's a very addictive thing. And children. [00:11:36] Speaker C: It's very illegal to do that too. [00:11:38] Speaker A: Very illegal to do that. But viewership metrics have been aging for League of Legends esports. So we are no longer a product that makes a show for kids. We make it almost exclusively for adults. Like, you look at the metrics, I don't think that they publicize those, but I've had a chance to look at them behind the scenes. Like the metrics for, like kids like 17 and under. Very, very low percentage of our audience. So, yeah, I think that that probably has something to do with it as well, that they're like, yeah, this just kind of comes with the aging population. But does anybody else have opinions on this? Any thoughts? [00:12:13] Speaker B: Just to add, you mentioned you don't know how to affect the broadcast itself from their statement on it, they say at the moment, at the onset, right on broadcast and social channels will. Will stay betting free. So that means no ads, no sponsored segments, no betting partner logos on Team Jersey. So at the moment, the broadcast will not have any involvement with that, it seems. So it's just on the team's dimensions. [00:12:40] Speaker A: There we go. That makes more sense. But that means that the teams on their social posts, the teams on their content, yes, they can do their own stuff. So expect things like. I was gonna say Coinbase. Coinbase is one of the crypto exchanges, isn't it? I'm trying to think, like, I don't even know the names. [00:12:54] Speaker C: What it's like 1x bed is like 1 of the big ones or something. [00:12:57] Speaker A: Sure. So if they sponsor like C9, you might get a sponsored C9 video that's talking them talking about, like, odds and stuff. [00:13:05] Speaker D: I don't know, though, because we all know Yanni. Yanni's been on the podcast. I wish he was here to talk about it a little bit more. Yeah, he had some really good points because we've been talking about it in the LPL English discord too. And it's just like, what is the incentive to back a team? Especially not in Europe. Apparently in Europe it's like it would be way easier for a team because the rules aren't as strict in terms of like, like display and stuff, of betting stuff. But in the United States especially, like you can't show the logo, you can't talk about the sponsor, you can't do it. Like what, what is the incentive for a sponsor to join if they can't even be addressed or anything that like there's just like no win win situation situation. So like Yanni had said, like it's. I do not expect any big sponsorships to be signed, especially in the North America, maybe in EU a little bit more, but it seems like kind of like a lackluster signing. Tbh. It was if for me it wasn't like this. Oh my God, we finally got Betty. It's like, no, there's still so many hoops that they have to jump through and it's like not real. [00:14:13] Speaker A: My tinfoil hack conspiracy is that this is probably a decision pushed heavily by one, maybe two teams that have the connections and have the own viewership on their channels that they could have some kind of deal that would be interesting enough or attractive enough for like a gambling website. But yeah, it's like what you think disguised or even like Hundred Thieves are going to like sponsor. Actually maybe 100 thieves would do something. But in general, the League of Legends content doesn't get that much views for most teams. So yeah, to that point I don't think a sponsor would be that interested in sponsoring that type of content because all ideas to get people to use. [00:14:54] Speaker D: Your website, like the active thing that you're sponsoring does not want you to do what you do. [00:15:00] Speaker A: Yep, pretty funny. Pretty funny. That was all the news that we had on the docket. For now though, unless anybody else has anything they want to hop in before I transition us towards more of the community stuff. If we missed any news though, let us know. In the community discord. The link is in the description. Wherever you are listening along, shout out to members of the community. Again, Mr. Emperor put together the pick' ems for the league rundown community on the league website, the official LoL esports website, so you can join that one. The link is in the Discord. So make sure you join that if you have. Not yet. I forgot to put my pick' ems for playin' so I am sitting at last place with zero points. But I did get my pickups in for the bracket stage so that hopefully I'll be able to earn back some. And I'll say I probably have a very unique bracket compared to anybody else if they took theirs at all. [00:15:51] Speaker B: Seriously, Kangas, congrats on the last place. Zero points. Currently there is a six way tie for first. [00:16:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, go for it. [00:16:03] Speaker B: I was gonna say with people who predicted the obvious answer. [00:16:08] Speaker A: But BLG, G2. Yep, that makes sense. It was not a hard one to get correct. That's what I would have predicted. So let's just imagine I'm at 70 points. [00:16:20] Speaker B: With correg, Duffy, Quasicotl, Percy and Raindrop. [00:16:27] Speaker A: And me and you. Yeah, you are on there. I saw that. I believe alphabetically you're second if that's how. [00:16:35] Speaker B: It's not alphabetical though, because Corag's up top. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Oh, interesting. Okay, either way, shout out to everybody that's participating in that. I'm sure that we'll see some more variation in the point scoring once we get to the bracket stage because that's where things get a little funky. Speaking of, let's talk about some msi, everybody. We had games this past weekend. We have games ahead of us now. It's going to be a very busy schedule. Our goal is to get one more episode put out because there's gonna be like a break day this coming Sunday. But it's gonna be depending on schedule. I'm gonna be really busy for pretty much all of July. I'll be at MSI for a little bit, the 5th, 7th and 8th. So say hi if you're there, but hopefully we can get another episode. If not, we'll try and cover everything that we can today which is gonna be talking about the plans to start things off. We had five best of fives behind us and in terms of predictions, yeah, it went about how we expected for the teams making it out being BLG and G2, but the way they got there is a different story. Mizzell, I want to set you up first to talk about BLG because they were the team that had a pretty clean path to make it into the bracket stage. [00:17:48] Speaker D: They definitely did. I think that it was about as expected as they like out of all the teams in the plans, at least it's, it's definitely a little bit one sided. [00:17:59] Speaker A: You were the One that shouldn't have been there. [00:18:01] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If there was one like odd man out, it was definitely blg. But then they showed up really well and I think Beuan had a really good setup for Knight and Ben in a lot of cases. And that was something that wasn't always the case at the end of the regular season. But it was nice to see them actually show up. I'm just worried and want to see what they show up against, like against better competition. But it was nice to see them have a good entrance in the plans at least. [00:18:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Elk still is the best Asriel I think ever that I've seen. That guy's craz. Okay. You have another name. [00:18:34] Speaker C: I mean, I, I, I think Wei Zhao is the best Ezreal ever, but. [00:18:39] Speaker A: I don't think I've seen Wei Zhao. So that might point to best Ezra life problem. Also on while having some really cool plays. Man, was he this aggressive during the regular season Mazzelle because he had some like, very interesting engages as well. Some of the only moments that things look shaky for BLG felt like they were kind of on on. [00:19:02] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean he, he was definitely. That's why I don't want to hate on the broadcast at all. But the narrative that on is like this super great player that can play anything is like the solid piece to BLG kind of rubbed me really wrong because he's been like the biggest enter this entire season. I'd say between him and Bejewan, I put them like 4th and 5th changing out occasionally on who's the better player in like rankings of the team itself. And then I would say third and fourth switch between Beechuan and Ben sometimes too. But no, I, I think he's had some really bad struggles figuring out like what his job is in a lot of situations. I think you could see that for sure. I really hope to see that cleaned up. And I think he still has like, really, really great moments. Right. Especially his playmaking and decision making for BLG has been really nice, but he's kind of the weaker link and that's why Elk has really like stepped up for blg. Elk and Knight are probably the best performing players of blg, especially during the regular season. They're running playoffs. [00:20:04] Speaker A: I think that echoes if in what we saw as well. Like I thought Elk played very well. Knight played very well. Like, and it was two 3 0s like BLG just, it felt like they were not challenged really on their walk in gam put up a fight for like two games and then by the third game they were out of it. And then G2. I don't. I. That almost felt more one sided from my perspective. Do people have like opinions of how the BLG games went or like they. [00:20:30] Speaker B: Put up a fight Game one and then didn't. [00:20:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Game one. They made them earn a game to it. Game two was kind of trending towards BLG stomping and then game three was the Olaf incident. [00:20:43] Speaker D: So. [00:20:44] Speaker A: Oh yeah. Oh no. [00:20:47] Speaker B: We don't talk about Olaf when you're. [00:20:49] Speaker C: When it. When it gets to the point. And I kind of want to bring this up when we talk about G2, about the ticking time bomb that is top lane for that team. They. They drafted Olaf. Olaf gets Flash baby. Caged by Veigar Level 1. Since Olaf doesn't run Flash and can't get out of the stun and they kill him. And then at that point he basically becomes. I don't want to say useless, but it's. It's not a great Broken Blade performance. Let's just put it that way. [00:21:23] Speaker A: I would argue that is one of the instances at an international stage where one player's performance single handedly loses a series. He looked bad. That series like Broken Blade just never got it together versus Ben. And let's just transition that to talk about G2 because they're the other team that made it out which was expected. But oh my God, dude. They lost more games than they won to get out. They had a 3:2 versus Furia. Oh, three to BLG. 3:2 verse gam. That's a 6 and 7 total record coming into the bracket state. [00:22:02] Speaker C: Inspiring confidence. [00:22:04] Speaker A: Not very. Yeah, not very convincing if we put it that way. And since we're already on the BLG series, I mean that's the one that I think really made it obvious that G2 can struggle. They should. Expectations are going to struggle into this bracket stage because I would push back on that. [00:22:22] Speaker B: And two things. One that you say it's solely on Broken Blade is like an instance where one player solely lost in the series. Okay. I think only one person in that team was playing well. [00:22:36] Speaker A: Would it be caps? [00:22:37] Speaker B: It would be caps. And also you say that the series against BLG showed you that they're going to struggle in this tournament. I think the other two showed so much more. If you had told me they got three zeroed by blg, I'd say yeah, no big deal. No surprise. If you told me they nearly lost to GAM and Furia I'd say what the hell happened? If you told me they would have lost to gam if GAM had a competent mid laner, I'd say what on earth is going on? [00:23:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And that was the. I think part of it is that everybody else in play ins was so close to each other. Every other series was five games. Only the BLG series were three. Oh, so G2 matched up against Furia five games. Then Furia and GAM matched up against each other. GAM wins that in five games. Then it's G2 versus GAM. G2 wins out of five games. So because those three were so close to each other, that's where I was like the game. The series versus BLG showed the difference. But I understand the point you're coming from that. G2 looked bad in a lot of the games that they had. And I, I think again Microscope on Broken Blade that in that furious Series two he looked rough. He did get it back together by the GAM series. I will say that I think by the time GAM series like, you know, happened, Broken Blade actually had a couple of really good performances. A couple of good games in there. But it is concerning that CAPS is really the only one that is stepping up on the international stage right now. [00:24:01] Speaker B: Badger brings up the Olaf incident. I see your Olaf incident and raise you the Warwick incident. [00:24:07] Speaker C: Oh my gosh. I. You know, I forgot about the Warwick incident until I pulled up the scoreboard about 30 seconds ago because I kind of forgot what he picked in that series. And then I saw the Warwick and I got. I got war flashbacks watching the. The Warwick die to an Aatrox pre. [00:24:25] Speaker A: 6 and then die again and then. [00:24:29] Speaker C: Diet like level 7 and just was not worth anything that game. [00:24:36] Speaker B: Then whiff a point blank ulti on a feared Nila. [00:24:40] Speaker C: Yes. [00:24:41] Speaker A: Yep. This was game one, by the way. Yeah. [00:24:45] Speaker C: This was the opener for the tournament. [00:24:47] Speaker A: Yep. Is G2 getting four total kills. And I'll let you guess where most of those were on to. Surprised it was not broken, but actually Capsule picked up one of them. It was skewmond with with two of the other ones. But Furia did I think show that we disrespected the hell out of them in terms of expectations coming in. They played their heart out and made two really close series. So yes, we can say the negative side on G2, but I think the positive side is also easy to talk about because outside of Furia a kind of falling apart when it came to macro. A lot of their games did turn into Just narams and then fighting. They were good at team fights. Like they actually were hand. Well, okay. I say good. Good conditionally. [00:25:33] Speaker D: I love that you keep giving yourself caveats every time. [00:25:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:38] Speaker D: You keep stopping yourself. [00:25:39] Speaker A: You know they, they can find team fights sometimes. [00:25:44] Speaker C: They know where to find a team fight. [00:25:46] Speaker D: They can find cs. They know how to kill towers. They know how to take down inhibs. [00:25:52] Speaker A: I also think they know they can freeze the wave. I also think they know how to play comps too. Like, like for. For an example, like game four when they were able to beat G2. I really like what they were able to put together here with like the seraphine support the kitty pool right now look man, they know how to press. [00:26:13] Speaker D: The buttons on their keyboard. [00:26:15] Speaker C: Like. [00:26:19] Speaker D: All right, like I said, I think there were some really winnable games that they dropped. That's really tough. And like I think G2 and especially other teams just, just were not having good reads on what they were trying to do. And I agree they like with unique strategies and like a set plays. That's where Fury do really want. I think that comes off the back of the think arts coaching because set plays is. Is really important to kind of think about when you think about furious gameplay. But as soon as it comes to in game decision making and stuff, we saw it completely fall apart and I think that's tough to watch. [00:26:56] Speaker A: I saw it as specifically IU being the weakest AD carry in the, in the tournament and really struggling like that Game 3 vs G2 they should have won. Except IU just gets picked off twice in mid lane playing Lucian and you. [00:27:09] Speaker D: See statements like that. You also see statements from like I will dominate and stuff that if, oh if they had a mid laner they could play. Right. And you can't have two positions that are pivotal to your carry success. [00:27:20] Speaker A: The mid lane was mid laners from what I was seeing. Yeah, yeah. Not. Not as much furious. So from fear. I agree with that sentiment though. I think that both of these teams had like one specific role that was significantly behind everybody else in the competition bracket. So yeah, Furia was close but obviously they weren't able to make it. They did get knocked out along with gam. So to the point that you know, has been made for, for gam. We already mentioned on this podcast too mid lane really struggled. They had the six man roster. They tried playing around with it a little bit but not for like the reasons you want which are strategic. The reasons that we had heard was that Emo was having kind of like nerve issues basically. Issues with nerves. So then Eris would come in and fill in for Emo. Or was it the other way around? Now I'm actually blanking. [00:28:09] Speaker B: No, it was Eris coming in for Emo. You are correct. [00:28:13] Speaker A: Yes. Okay. Which is a tough position to be in, man. Like, that. That's. That's rough. I know that. That it was specifically in, like, the BLG game. It was Emo playing the first game, and it was like he just couldn't. He just could deal with night, and unfortunately, neither could Eris. Did not work out better. So I wonder, like, what the future of that roster looks like. Like. Like Badger, for example. I know you've done some coaching in the past. I. Not at, like, tier one level, but I want you to put yourself in the mind of a coach. Like, if you have a player that is. Is like telling you this is almost like the Olay situation that Team Liquid had in the past where they're telling you, like, I can't handle this. Like, I can't handle this pressure. I can't handle the stress. Like, what do you do going into an off season? Now you have a little bit of time. Like, do you think that's a priority to, like, drop Emo, Get Eris up to spe? Do you think they still keep committing? Like, did you see sparks in Emo? What are your opinions of the situation? [00:29:10] Speaker C: I mean, so the big thing that I would do in that situation is see if. Because I know a lot of teams are starting to get, like, sports psychologists and everything like that into the staff of teams. I think the big thing would be have, like, a support staff person not only for. For Emo in this situation, but, like, for the rest of the team, just in case they're feeling it. Because realistically speaking, I know it's MSI and you got huge expectations on yourself, but Bilibili is not the team to feel bad about losing to that. [00:29:46] Speaker A: It. [00:29:47] Speaker C: Billy. Billy is an amazing team. Now, if you're dropping games to, like, Furia in that situation like that, not to discredit or anything like that, but that just feels like the one that, like, okay, maybe this one could affect us a little more. Like, like, you're coming in against the person named, nicknamed the Golden Left Hand. Like, you. [00:30:09] Speaker B: You. [00:30:13] Speaker C: You have to take it with whatever grain of salt you want, but just let him, like, sit out a game. Just talk to him like, hey, you're doing fine. Like, everything's okay. Like, not upset at you about this because, like, realistically speaking, you take a look at that game. I don't think he was the problem. Like your, your bot lane is just like getting gapped and there's nothing really you can do on it and just, just support the player as much as you can because like emo has potential. Like Emo's a good player. It's just in that moment it's not working well because the kid's 19 years old. Like yeah, just got into the team like last year. You, you, you give players like that time like still early in the development. Still is like just, just became an adult. [00:31:09] Speaker A: Like kids. I actually kids 19. I'll credit them for having a backup and having somebody to help out and step in. So props to Eris for coming in. It's gotta be a tough situation for everybody involved. But yeah, I think GAM also just as a team, it's useful to have that six man roster for multiple reasons. That's why I think it's going to become more popular in the future. This is another reason why you could look for a six man roster as like, you know, a reason to help out. You have a young player and then you have somebody else who's a little more calm and experienced. Didn't matter much for their win versus Fury, I will say because to Lennon's point, if we do want to talk bad on Fury, I know it's really hard to pick out the bad things Furia does. They almost play Perf perfect League of Legends. But fighting at 15 minutes with a Cassidy and probably not one as well as fighting at the. I think it was Otacon or Baron. No, they fought at an objective. Like when tuts was level 15 on Kassadin instead of level 16 and then they lose the fight and then that's pretty much the end of the game or like starts to snowball for the end of the game. So like there were a lot of really tough spots and then GAM versus G2. If we just want to cover that series briefly here, that one was the one that I, I think biasly a lot of us just because we're na people were like haha, G2's gonna lose this. They're gonna get reverse swap. They like looked good in the first two. Broken Blade strung together two good series. He had like this crazy flank play in the second game. But then by the time game three rolled around we got Broken Blade broken in half yet again. In fact, mazel request I play this sound bite six times. And I did, I did play that six times. [00:32:59] Speaker D: While we were feeling like that was asking too much in Fact, I think. [00:33:03] Speaker A: You should have asked for more, so just keep that in mind for future requests. And then Gam was able to string it together again with another one. This time, Broken Blade had a good game four in the matchup versus Kiaya. But then, man, Lebrov's been struggling. Can we talk about Lebrov now? I know Broken Blade was like, the. The big highlight just because he's a little more experienced, but was it Bickle or Badger? One of you had brought up LeBron because. Coming in. All right, it's time, Bickle. [00:33:30] Speaker B: Everyone's like, okay, Broken Blade, Caps, Hans. They're the three that have a lot of experience. They're good veterans. You'd expect them to kind of be stable. Obviously, we mentioned Broken Blade had struggles, but people have been keeping their eyes on Schemond and Labrov as the two new guys. Skewmond has kind of had his ups and downs. He's a rookie. It's expected. The Nunu game was interesting. I will say. It's funny that for the second time, we got to see that people don't understand what Nunu E does as they try and teleport in front of it and have it get canceled. What are people doing? Learn what champs do. But Labrov has. He's been rough. It's been a rough tournament all three series. He has not been looking good, and really, he's kind of been showing up as not standing up to the pressure as well as the rest of G2, and it's really causing some concerns of what can they pull together. Because a weak Labrov leads to a weak lane with Hans, which leads to a weak side of the map for G2. And with broken Blade struggling, it just puts so much pressure on Caps. [00:34:38] Speaker A: Yeah, and you could. [00:34:39] Speaker D: Broken Blade will be broken in half. [00:34:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And you could feel that pressure by game five in. In game versus G2. Like, G2. First off, slow bleed of a game. Dude, we didn't get first blood till about 10 minutes. We didn't have feats of warfare claimed or feats of strength claimed until like, 25 minutes. Something crazy like that. Both of these teams are playing a very patient, very slow. But it was Caps at the big, pivotal moment. It's like Gam were trying to make a pick on a Hansama in the jungle. But then, actually, no, I think it was on the Caps in the. In the. In the top river. But Labrov is there on Tom Kench keeps him safe. Caps then turns back around, flashes in, gets a triple stun, and then that's it. They just kill three, get Baron. Game's over within five minutes. Like holy shit. That was. That was a quick finish from a slow bleed of a game. But G2 are able to still pull off those big high pressure moments. Those big like do or die situations and scenarios against the worst teams. The question is can they maintain that going forward? Which brings us to the bracket stage because the two teams advancing being BLG and G2 still have work ahead of them. They're joining the top six teams in the tournament that already auto seeded in whether that's accurate or not. VLG arguably already better than some of the teams here. But the bracket draw was as follows. It was gen G versus G2. So congrats G2. Your job got a little harder now anyone's legend versus fly quest. That's going to be an interesting one. CFO versus T1. We'll get our first look at CFO from a lot of our perspectives here. Going up against the goats and then MCOIL versus blg. A couple of opportunities there for, you know, arguable upsets from western teams over eastern teams. I don't think G2 Gen G is gonna be one of them. As we talk predictions, we all have gen G3.0 across the board. This is gonna expectation is a slaughter, I would say. Does anybody have any amount of copium for like a game for G2? [00:36:59] Speaker D: Like anything to give the hell off one game. [00:37:03] Speaker A: There we go. [00:37:04] Speaker D: Silas. There you go. [00:37:06] Speaker A: I would have accepted yone as well, but both are cool stories. So I would have predicted a 3.0stop. [00:37:12] Speaker B: For Gen G if G2 had looked like gods and plans. It's Gen G. Like it doesn't matter. I. I said this before. We could opt on to recording for this. If you give me Gen G or the field right now, I'm taking Gen G. They look that good, that dominant. They're that favored to me to win this tournament. [00:37:37] Speaker A: That's a lot of talk for somebody that wasn't at first stand is all I'm gonna say. Okay. Yes. [00:37:42] Speaker B: And the team they lost to in the finals ended up going. I think they dropped like a game at first stand. [00:37:51] Speaker A: Yeah. In the finals. Single game. But that's beside the point. It's fine. It doesn't matter. But that brings up a fun conversation that I'm happy you reminded me of. Gen G or the field. What are you taking, Badger? [00:38:02] Speaker C: Genji, what are you taking? Obviously the field. [00:38:06] Speaker A: I agree. I think if. I mean, yes, Genji can be favorites, but that doesn't mean, they're above 50 favorites. You're putting them against T1, Al and Blg and even like, outliers like Fly Quest, McOid that could have like a 5% chance. The stats add up. I'm taking the field. I'm taking the field any day. But that's the difference of opinion right there. Genji is still expected to smash G2. Anyone's legend versus fly. I am the only true NA fan. Cowards. Cowards, all of you. [00:38:43] Speaker D: Fuck you. I got heat for giving FlyQuest two games in my predictions on Twitter. I think that's enough of being an NA fan. [00:38:51] Speaker A: All right, you know, I will say. [00:38:54] Speaker D: Fucking games. Come on. [00:38:56] Speaker A: I will say I think your followers are probably a little more LPL skewed than mine, given the fact that you cover LPL and that I only meme for my predictions when I tweet them out. Anyway, I have FlyQuest taking this. Okay. If we're being honest, it should be anyone's legend. Like, realistically should be alone. Shout out to Mizel for giving two games. Badger RMC also filled out his predictions. And Bickle, I'll say three. One to Al. Yeah, I don't really have, like, much analysis for this one other than just pure opium. Mizel, how does FlyQuest win two games? Give me some more Hopium here. Give me something. [00:39:36] Speaker D: I think Masu and Busio get the better of Elkanon in one of the games. And I think that Inspired actually has a really good series against Tarzan in one of the games too. [00:39:47] Speaker A: Hell yeah. So again, fearless. [00:39:52] Speaker D: Just like inevitable. [00:39:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. I like that. I can vibe with that. And I'm gonna say their third game they win is because Bipo picks Ergot. I don't know. [00:40:07] Speaker C: I think it's not. It's so confident when you said, oh, yeah, I need you to exude that way more. [00:40:13] Speaker A: Exactly. Although I will say it's going to be a weird time in the bracket for it to happen. We'll talk about our brackets that we filled out in a moment here. I really want to see BWIPO versus Doran. Dude. Like, I have to see that matchup. That sounds so funny to me. Anyway, that's Al versus Fly Quest. Then we have CFO versus T1. Oh, I put CFO. Why did I do that? Everyone put T1 probably correctly. [00:40:38] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:40:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess I just threw. Oh, now I remember. I threw it in there because I was like, I have no idea because I don't watch a lot of LCK. All I know is that T1 expectations were that they wouldn't make MSI based on like the beginning of playoffs and cfo. Everyone I talked to is like they're super disrespected and way better than you think. So I think it's close series and I'm just barely edging out cfo, but I really don't have a lot of information going into that one. But everyone else is believing in T1. Any big insights in that one? Badger or Bickle? Any. Any thoughts as to why T1 wins this one? Or is it just, you know, you want to get good goodie points with Riot and. And Faker. [00:41:17] Speaker C: Goody points of the Riot. Yeah, that's exactly. Let me text Faker and just say, hey, I predicted you on the podcast. Good luck, bud. [00:41:27] Speaker B: T1's on streak. They're looking good. [00:41:31] Speaker C: They. They had such a good run to get to msi. I know it's been a little bit of a layoff since the LCK like road to MSI playoffs structure was in place, but they, they looked good. They answered a lot of the questions that I had in particular about how Doran can be in a setting and he ended up being one of the pivotal reasons why they're actually at this tournament. Taking down Hanma. [00:42:03] Speaker A: But Counterpoint, he's going to get so confused when he sees Driver then rest, then Driver then rest. He's like, I don't, I can't get a read of my top lane opponent because the six man roster is too genius. From my. [00:42:16] Speaker C: I don't think a six man roster is going to be the reason that Doran would sprint it if he had the opportunity to. [00:42:30] Speaker A: Oh God, the Krugs. And then that leads us to the final series. Then if we're expecting T1 over CFO, I'm the only one voting against the grain here. It's probably gonna ruin my prediction record. But we have MCOID versus BLG and we all agree this time it's blg, baby. I gave MCOID two games, everyone else gave them one. So the only sweep that we really have predicted here is Gen G other than badger actually put T1 as a sweep three over the CFO. All right, cool. So expectations is definitely high for LCK lpl. I don't think that's going to be a surprise to anybody just based on a recent international performances and and power level of the regions. But that means that the lower brackets get way more exciting. This is where I want to go over our pickums because I believe we've all filled them out and some of you have already shared them in the discord. So mazel. I know you had a really fun narrative that you wanted to. Oh, oh, you don't want to highlight it anymore? [00:43:27] Speaker D: No, we can't. Yeah. [00:43:29] Speaker A: Oh. Oh, you. Yeah, okay. Sorry. I heard no. Okay. Yes. So please. I said, oh, please tell me in the audience your. [00:43:35] Speaker D: All right, all right. [00:43:36] Speaker A: Yeah. What's going on with your pickums bracket here? [00:43:39] Speaker D: Close your eyes and imagine this. [00:43:41] Speaker A: All right. [00:43:41] Speaker D: Set the stage. It's MSI 2025. All visual here in the audio podcast. [00:43:47] Speaker A: Ass J. I'm in the arena. [00:43:51] Speaker D: Yeah. Gen G. Well, you don't want to be for this one because it's a murder. Gen G destroy G2 30. [00:43:58] Speaker A: No, I want to be there for. [00:43:59] Speaker D: Easy sends them to the lower bracket. Fly quest takes Al32. Like, well, at least AL wins that one. But they take two games off of Al. [00:44:09] Speaker A: Okay, wait. [00:44:10] Speaker D: I never really. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Miscommunication. Your Hope is dashed. CFO loses the T1 because Faker does Faker things. JoJo, he gets like one game off of BLG. He like, he's the only reason why they get a game. MCOID gets taken down a lower bracket. Then in the lower bracket, you got to think what's the funniest thing that could possibly happen? Because G2 and Fly Quest are facing each other, it's obviously that fly quest beats G2 and knocks him out. And then it's a 12 punch against Europe where CFO also dismantles MCOID 30. Both EU represent representatives are out of MSI. [00:44:51] Speaker A: Take away a world spot from them. [00:44:52] Speaker D: Take away a world spot from. That's totally fine. Top bracket, gen G, destroy Al. Whatever. BLG beats T1. Somehow, some way that happens. Then in the next round of the upper bracket, Gen G beats blg. Make it to the finals. That's cool. Whatever. That's expected. Back to the lower bracket. Fly Quest do the unthinkable. The unimaginable. They beat T1 and knock out faker from MSI. Crazy. [00:45:19] Speaker A: First time ever beating fake ever in. [00:45:22] Speaker D: A best of ever al bcfo. Whatever that just happened. Then we go back to the rematch. This faded moment from round number one Flyco is like we've learned. We've battled through. We've taken our tasks to hand and they get 30 by AO. They get Molly walk. They get destroyed. It's fine. Then we move forward into the end all be all for the LPL. It's the rematch of finals. The narrative right themselves. Al take down BLG32, and then Al take that momentum. All that gusto, all the LPL fandom. And they beat Gen G3, too, as well. GG easy LPL or champions once again. [00:46:09] Speaker A: Oh, so the rematch in the top bracket also, because you have Genji beating AL the first time and then Al running the lower bracket through cfo. Fly BLG to rematch Genji and take him down. That would be exciting. I like the narrative. All right, I will give you for a very visual description in an audible format. I'm giving that five stars, though, because. [00:46:33] Speaker D: Really, you know what else you should. [00:46:34] Speaker A: Give five stars closed the whole time. Huh? [00:46:36] Speaker D: This podcast. [00:46:38] Speaker C: Oh, wait a second. [00:46:40] Speaker A: Hold on. That's a good idea. Wait, we're not at the end of the podcast, though, so now. All right, see everybody. Bye. Oh, that was the wrong button. Okay. Get to the whip later. [00:46:49] Speaker D: Absolutely. [00:46:50] Speaker A: I. I like to imagine, actually that there's a sizable portion of our podcast that doesn't listen all the way to the end every time and has no idea what I'm referencing. But, you know, that's a little. You know, I'm blanking on the word. What's it called? The other Easter egg. There we go. Easter egg. All right, Badger, you're up next. Talk about your pickums bracket and what narrative you're going for here. [00:47:14] Speaker C: The narrative is that the east is way better than the west. So I. [00:47:19] Speaker A: Let's do a quick look. Do you have any western teams beating any eastern teams? You don't? [00:47:24] Speaker B: Oh, McCoy beating CFO. [00:47:26] Speaker C: CFO. Okay, okay, so we have that one, but I think that one's just gonna come down to three, two. Something's gonna happen. JoJo Peon's gonna take over game five, and then they make it to the next round. So I have obviously Gen G, anyone's legend, making it through T1. BLG on the other side, we get Gen G versus T1 in a what should have been the LCK finals for spring that we never got because Gen G never actually had to play another series after they beat Hanwha. So we get this as the upper bracket final. BLG takes care of Fly Quest in the bottom side of the or the lower bracket after they. After fly beats G2, MCOID beats CFO, but then loses to anyone's legend. Surprise, surprise, we have now reached the top four, and it is the LPL Civil war going on at this point, and I have BLG winning it because. So before, while we were recording in the patreon bullshittery. I said that BLG has a better chance at winning MSI than anyone's legend does, and Mizel scoffed at me for it. And I was. And I knew it was going to happen because I figured I'm going to take one side, he's going to take the other. Just because I didn't have a good read of what he was thinking coming into it. But I respect your opinion, Mizel, but I just think like, internationally speaking, this BLG team is just more equipped to take on the firepower that Gen G can offer at this point. Despite, you know, an and BEI Schwan having their we are the fifth best team mantle changing hands each each game, it feels like. So I think BLG is really well equipped to take down T1. So they beat anyone's legend. They beat T1 in the lower bracket finals, and then they just still lose to Gen G anyways. Because Gen G is just. It feels inevitable at this point. [00:49:44] Speaker D: My only statement before I have to step away is that you ain't seen Al's firepower yet. They got. They got a trench coat of weapons, baby. [00:49:53] Speaker A: It's like the Matrix. [00:49:55] Speaker D: I like your idea though. Good stuff. [00:49:58] Speaker A: It's like Neo showing up through the metal detectors, pulling out Uzis and pulling out. Well, actually retired. All right. Anyway, you do have T1 losing the rematch as well. So in your pricoms, you have T1 beating BLG in the upper bracket, losing to them in the lower bracket. So BLG makes the finals. So that's another little rematch there. Pretty fun. Bickle, you haven't put yours in yet, so I'm going to cover mine. Bagel, if you want to throw yours and we can afterwards. [00:50:22] Speaker B: I have it. Let me just grab it. [00:50:25] Speaker A: Perfect. My one is probably the most realistic, if we're being honest, because it is. It's just. It's. It's due. That's what it actually is. It is just due to happen. 10 years and NA's never won an MSI. There's no shot we go a full decade without picking one up. Right. So I have gen G beating G2, sure. But then I have Fly beaten al, fly beaten Gen G, fly beaten T1, and fly beaten T1 again in the grand finals. I don't think anything else in my lower bracket even matters at that point other than EU bombing out as. As a lot of people have for the memes. Also, we haven't talked about it, but shout out for JoJo pun get finally clawing his way Back has to go to a different region, wins that region just to make it to an international event because he can't deal with the the APA heat in na. And what's his reward? He's playing Knight first round. About it. Dude, that's fucking wild. But yeah, yeah. Let me know if you think the mine's realistic. I think that that's very realistic and bound to happen because again, we're due. Bickle, have you gotten yours yet? [00:51:39] Speaker B: Yep, I'm posting it right now. [00:51:41] Speaker A: There we go. Beautiful. All right, walk me through your video or your visual. Rather visual bracket in the audio. [00:51:49] Speaker B: Sure thing. So mine starts a very similar way to what Badger has brought up, which is the east is real good. So Gen G beats G2, Al beats fly. T1 beats CFO. BLG beats MCOI. And in the upper bracket, I think Korea's really good. So I got Gen G beating Al and T1 beating Blg to give us the finals matchup that we were robbed of as Gen G takes on T1 and Gen G shows why the best team in the world and move themselves on to Grand Finals. [00:52:24] Speaker A: Now that's like the exact same as Badgers, right? [00:52:28] Speaker B: It's dead on for bread. Badgers upper bracket. Now, my lower bracket is where things are a bit different. FlyQuest G2 I think G2 has looked atrocious, so I think FlyQuest beats them. And I think Europe as a whole has looked atrocious as of late. So I have CFO actually beating mkoi. I have Europe leaving without winning a series in the main bracket. [00:52:48] Speaker A: Nice. [00:52:49] Speaker B: I think anyone Legend continues to bounce back and beats cfo. [00:52:54] Speaker A: But. [00:52:54] Speaker B: But I'm not as hot on blg. I don't think they showed a lot in play ins. I don't think it shows they're necessarily the strongest team. So I'm with the Kangas. I think Fly Quest gets the first win against the Chinese team in so many years as they take down BLG in the lower bracket before they go on to get three owed by anyone's legend in lower bracket. [00:53:19] Speaker A: I okay, so we're gonna have to do the math because you actually are the one that did the exact math for how many days it was since TL beat IG by the time this series happens. Because if we're being honest, I'm trolling by saying flyca is gonna beat al. This is the much more realistic win for for NA over lpl. We'll have to figure out how many days that one's been because that's gonna make a banger social media post with that. [00:53:42] Speaker B: Anyone's legends then gets to face off against T1 who they take down in a close five game series before they go to the grand finals and lose 31 to Geni. [00:53:53] Speaker A: Ah there we there. [00:53:54] Speaker B: It is inevitable. [00:53:56] Speaker A: So you have Al picking up a game at least. I just hope whoever does challenge Genji because they've been built up to be such a freaking boogeyman. They like. I don't know if I've ever in my life had such high expectations for like the tournament favorites as this. I know there's been worlds where there are heavy favorites but like the way people are talking about Gen G it's like they can't do anything wrong. I just hope it's not a 30 finals. Whoever matches up, I hope that at some point along the bracket they have a like a full five game best of series show that they are fallible. [00:54:28] Speaker B: And going to be completely honest. I have hyped up Gen G so much I fully expect them to lose to T1. [00:54:36] Speaker A: Let's go fair. That would be the one to beat them probably out of anybody here funnily enough. So yeah, pretty good expectations. That's our expectations. Let us know yours. Everybody in the community through the community discord hop in the discussion. We have the MSI chat in there. People are commenting live while the games are going on which has been super fun. And then also Badger, I know Bizzell said something earlier about like stars. Did you catch that? I know what he's talking about. [00:55:10] Speaker C: I think he wanted you to give as many stars as MSIs that LPL has won. Which is 5. I believe that's what he was saying. I don't know. [00:55:22] Speaker A: LPL's won five MSIs. [00:55:24] Speaker C: LPL is LPL has won five MSIs. [00:55:27] Speaker A: Wait, that's actually crazy. Hell give us five many stars. [00:55:32] Speaker C: And then there's the G2 one from 2019. [00:55:34] Speaker B: EDG won the initial MSI JDG one MSI in 2023 during their near Golden Road. And RNG has three MSI titles. [00:55:47] Speaker A: Yeah, that's crazy to think about one of which. Oh yeah, they're not going to exist anymore. Yeah, most likely. [00:55:58] Speaker B: Shaohu won that international tournament. Top lane is just my fun random fact. He also did technically play mid lane in that in that tournament as well. So he won an international title while playing two different roles in the same tournament. [00:56:12] Speaker A: Best to ever do it in both in. In playing both roles at the same time. Very specific stipulation but all right, well that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for tuning in everybody. Yeah, that was We've gotten through the play ins. Hopefully we get this episode posted before games start, but no promises it might be coming out and we already have seen another best of five. The schedule is going to be a little wacky as we look forward. We have games on Tuesday we'll have Gen G versus G2, Wednesday we'll have Al versus FlyQuest, and Thursday is going to be a double decker of mcoid blg cfot1. Friday's a double decker and then Saturday is a double decker. Each of those days should have one upper bracket, one lower bracket, Best of five. So there's gonna be three days in a row which are marathon days, just like we had for most of the play ins. But then we'll be back to just one best of five a day for the rest of the tournament. With Sunday being the next off day. We'll hope to get an episode out on that day, or rather recorded on that day. Maybe recorded Saturday. So it's out, but most likely recorded Sunday out sometime on Monday. But it's gonna depend on how good of a mobile audio setup I can get. So we'll keep you posted on that one. But for now, thank you so much for listening in everybody. It's msi. We had some great games, some great series, and hopefully some great ones ahead of us. But if there's one thing you can take away from this episode, it's that we love ya and we'll see you next time. [00:57:40] Speaker D: Bye everyone. [00:57:41] Speaker B: Peace. [00:58:04] Speaker A: Sam.