League Rundown - Episode 597: League of crab

[00:00:13] Speaker A: Gets a little too far here. He's gonna have to try and get himself out. Let me go. Tillery and the rest of the shots of fire. Zion is just killing the next Zion can eat it single handedly win the game by game by game by game by should be. Oh my God. Stupid. Passes through and manages to the table with Messiah tanking it up. I do not believe he just believe. I cannot understand this game. Unicorns of love. It wasn't a mutant. They're Nexus. Hello and welcome to episode 597 of the League Rundown. This is your 2026 LEC and LCS playoffs week two review and this episode is lovingly entitled League of Crabs. I'm your host Kangas and today I'm joined by two surprise co hosts actually of this episode and guests of the Pod is a very busy week for a lot of the regulars so we have joining our ranks up first back on the League Rundown. Miss your cubby. How's it ky? [00:01:36] Speaker B: Doing great, man. Excited to be back talking with you guys. And yeah, I mean this is a different crew but hopefully a fun crew for the gang at home. [00:01:44] Speaker A: Oh, I'm excited. I'm excited for this one because we get some fresh perspectives and also notably a lot of perspectives that I have been have not been tainted by my terrible predictions because I have somehow psyoped everyone on the pod to believing Shopify was going to be good and then DSG was going to be good and neither of those things worked out. I. I think the DSG is okay [00:02:03] Speaker B: even if it didn't go well and play off. [00:02:05] Speaker A: We'll talk about that later. We also have D though, a longtime friend of the Pod, Mikko. Welcome Mikko. [00:02:11] Speaker C: Yeah, hey, thanks for having me. And yeah, I want to support Kawhi's point of view. Like I think DSG made it much farther than they would ever predict it to be. And it is something that is really impressive just watching from the spectator's perspective just because I know like some of the players, I know a lot about their head coach and yeah, they fought tooth and nail to get to where they are. [00:02:35] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:02:36] Speaker B: They're. [00:02:36] Speaker A: They're a scrappy team for sure. And we'll talk about their journey as well as the rest of the lcs but also LEC because I would say for once it's been a while since this happened but for once LCS kind of duds. This past weekend the other name for this episode was going to be League or I was going to say 3 0, rock shout out to the 30 rock enjoyers out there because it was all three O's pretty one sided victories in LCS. LEC is where we had actually some more interesting games and but before we get into LEC and LCS let's talk about some of the variety news around the world. Up first, Miko. Have you ever heard about a mid laner who is notable for playing a little off meta playing. Playing things like Nautilus? Yeah, he's like Malphite in the Midland. I think his name was like Doan. Doanby. Doinby. Yeah, like that ring a bell? [00:03:26] Speaker C: Yeah for sure. I mainly remember him from getting almost arrested for tax evasion. [00:03:33] Speaker A: He did you know allegedly steal a lot of money from the Chinese government. [00:03:39] Speaker B: You know speaking of respecting the hustle, what's next for doing beat these days? [00:03:46] Speaker A: So reports are in that he is going to jump ship to a different esport and a different moba. Yeah that's right. He's taking the rich approach. Shout out Rich. The top laner for old dignitas who used to play Heroes of the storm competitively doin B is now going to go to Dota 2 and his goal is to compete on a team and go compete in the major or the. Is. Is that what it's called? [00:04:12] Speaker C: The Dota Major. [00:04:13] Speaker B: They have a major system international. [00:04:14] Speaker A: There we go. [00:04:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the big one though. [00:04:17] Speaker A: All right, so what do we think guys? Is it possible for a player like Doinby to jump ship and play a completely different MOBA cubby? You're given the. The cut, the neck. [00:04:26] Speaker B: No, that's cuz I was gonna let Mo go first but since you. Yeah, I mean I would love to see if doinb does it. I think it's a really fun story when you have gamers trying to be multi game athletes. And there definitely is a thing as a gamer gene. I mean Miko can like personally speak to this but I am a terrible gamer. Personally I think that if I were to do a different MOBA I'd probably have a pretty good advantage given my experience in league. I know mechanically I'm not good enough to game at the level that these guys play at because I don't apply myself to that level. And also I know how talented these guys are. But doinb is one of those supreme talents and if this guy wants to do it he is one of the most entertaining league personalities that we have. God bless him for leaking everything that the LPL like ever had going on. News wise he was double diff'd on steroids in Terms of leaks, I'm not even exaggerating. It was fucking hilarious. And he, like, would be super public about it too. He'd be like, yeah, this player's going here. You guys don't know about it yet. Like, this kind of stuff. Or like, would in between games be DMing players in the client, like, hey, what's going on with your team? And then the getting news, like, multiple instances of doing me doing this in the past. Dancing on the graves of his opponents before and after matches as well. I. I feel like Dota gets a big buff. I'm rooting for him. It sucks to see him do this. But also good for Doymi Manny. He's a fun personality. It's a good story. [00:05:52] Speaker C: Yeah. I think I gotta back up on the fact that he's a really fast learner and he looks at the game in a very different way than a lot of people. And I played Dota for about, I think, 200 hours. And the reason why I quit was because whenever I played against a decent player, then I had no idea why I lost the lane. Right. Because one of the major big features of Dota is that you could manipulate the Minion Wave in ways that you could never do in League of Legends. [00:06:17] Speaker A: Yeah. For example, you can hit your own minions. [00:06:19] Speaker C: You could kill your own minions and deny golden exp. You. You can block them. Your aggro leash is so persistent that you could literally hit the enemy. Enemy, enemy champion in the league term and then aggro their entire wave and then drag them all the way to your neutral camps so that you. You collect them at a very weird angle. [00:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:39] Speaker C: Oh, it's really cool. So you. [00:06:41] Speaker B: And you hit neutrals to stack camps. Speaking of that too, like, there's a ton of weird. That game is more complicated than league, and I find to be harder. And I really appreciate the puzzle of watching the international every year because it really is the only Dota I watch. But it gives me the puzzle of figuring out a MOBA out again. And it's fun. But Miko's right. That game is hard as hell. [00:07:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:04] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:07:04] Speaker C: So I'm excited. He was a problem solver. He was the first person to play League of Legends in the way that T1 has now mastered the game. And like, LCK players, like LCK fans will never admit this, but there was a moment in time, especially during season 10 and 11, where China knew how to play League of Legends better than Korea. And I think that, like, doinb was a leader in that area for a really really long time. So he may do something similar in the Dota scene, but we'll see. He may end up being like Rich. [00:07:40] Speaker A: True. Well, so I don't have a lot of like big insight into how he plays the game or approaches the game. What I always remember doing before was very creative drafting and pulling out champions and counter picks and proving that you can do stuff with the mid lane that nobody else was really doing. Which I thought was really cool because also Faker did that back in the day too with things like Master Yi Mid Nidalee Mid, you know. So I think that doinb is that type of player where he will creatively problem solve in ways that other players don't traditionally look at. [00:08:10] Speaker B: Also is a shot caller was in league. That's gonna be the hardest part adopting the Dota. If he actually wants to do this, it's gonna be figuring out the game. Because talking while playing the game at this level, there is a skill to that. Some people are better at it than others. It's. It's a skill to work on. But doinb was very good at that. And can that translate to Dota and if it does, can you see the game well enough where that translates to making his team better? That's gonna be really challenging because that's a really different game. But yeah, I mean good for him to be interesting. I hope he plays mid. His carry roles are really op in that game. Like if you were to go play support, I think he'd climb faster earlier just because support you are starving as a support in that game. Like you have nothing like. But you know, given Dwindi strengths that could be a role that really fits him if he actually understands this game at a high level. [00:08:59] Speaker A: Maybe, maybe. We had a joke with Rich. I don't know if either of you heard this Cubby. You're probably gonna need the kick out of this. When Rich came from Heroes of the Storm, Mongoose ex full time co host of the podcast used to call it trickle down mechanics where Rich brought mechanics from Hearth Heroes of the Storm over to the League of Legends. So it trickled down into the lc. So now doin B is gonna trickle down league mechanics into Dota. That's the goal here, right? [00:09:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:27] Speaker C: He's gonna tear down the wall. [00:09:30] Speaker B: I. I find Dota to be a harder game. I. I think the only pro that I can remember. There are a lot of pro players that have been good at Dota 2 as well. I remember Link specifically though I believe competed in both early on in like early days. Clg link. [00:09:45] Speaker A: Okay, sure. [00:09:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. If memory serves correct. I'm sure. I know like Jensen was consistently good at the game. Yeah. I mean, behind the scenes, like a lot of these guys are Again, they have the gamer gene, so it's kind of interesting. Like a lot of these guys can hit radiant and I know that like Boaster of Valorant was also, he had masters in League. I think he had a master's account while VCT was going on. It's kind of crazy. [00:10:10] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I, I fully believe in the gamer gene as well. Some people just have the type of brain that processes game information, competitive gaming information, and reaction speed at like such a high level that they'll, they'll pick up games and be able to master them at a much higher level than most people that commit their time to one game. Yeah, that's fun. We'll maybe track Doinby's journey. I, I, I don't know if it pops up more on my feed, I'll talk about it. Otherwise, if people in the community want to keep talking about it, make sure to post updates in the community. Discord. One other thing happened this past week that I want to talk about and that is the return of a beloved content piece from the lcs. This or that with Kobe and Jet is back. They recorded a new episode. There was. This has been a little peek behind the scenes. It's come up in conversations before. I, I've definitely encouraged like, hey, we should bring this back. And it's always come down to a lot of people have been let go from the old LCS team behind the scenes that made all this content. And the team that is currently there is a little leaner than it used to be back in the days when this or that was like a weekly thing. And it would surprise you how much work actually goes to something like this or that. Making the slides, like creating all the graphics, getting all like interesting conversation points there and then also getting the cameras and everything working. So it's cool that they got this done and shout out to the team that was able to put it together. But it will only continue to run if it gets enough views. So everybody go click it, go check out this or that on YouTube, go watch the video because if it doesn't get enough traction, there's a low chance that it continues. But guys, I remember when this or that and like all the shoulder content would get like 100k views minimum on YouTube and they would push like 200k on a lot of these things. Like that was the glory days in like 2016. Right. Do you guys remember like any of your favorite shoulder content? Was it this or that? Or was it like Lane By Lane or any of the other stuff they used to do? [00:12:06] Speaker B: It was chats, X's and O's. I forget what they called it. [00:12:11] Speaker A: Oh, the team fight breakdown. [00:12:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you. Those were really good. I really enjoyed those. One of the first pieces of league content I made myself. I tried to do that with cup and I was pissed off because the execution of it. They wouldn't freeze the clips at the times where I wanted them to freeze it. They slow mo'd it instead and I was like, oh no. Because then the audio pollution was so bad and we didn't have time to make it better. So it launched and I was so mad about that because. Yeah. Anyway, those are those funny things though, [00:12:44] Speaker A: where it's like, you know, until you actually try and make it, you don't realize how hard it is to actually put those things together. [00:12:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:51] Speaker A: I loved Lane By Lane personally. That was always my favorite. I thought Dash was a fantastic host for that. And then Raz did a great job when they tried to revive it back in like 21 or 22. [00:12:59] Speaker B: That was the game show, but they just. [00:13:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it was the game show where it's like he could divvy out points to people based on like takes and arguments and stuff. It was super fun. [00:13:08] Speaker B: Oh yeah. It was around the horn. It was around the horn. That was. [00:13:11] Speaker A: It was around the horn. Yeah, exactly. It was model after that. But I feel like that was an era that we had and this is also something that we talk about as a team is like we just had more opinions and vocalized our differing opinions more often because we had different outlets now on the show. If I want to give a breakdown of like why I thought Shopify Rebellion was power ranked number one seed, I don't have the same like avenues to give that argument that I used to have or that I would like. You know, in past versions of the show there would have existed. So it's like a different creative process to. To get those types of hot takes out there. But shout out to bringing that back. Hopefully it continues. Go check it out, everybody. Other than that lck, we are deep into playoffs. Mo, I know that you're a big LCK enthusiast and Cubby you as well. So actually both of you can can give your thoughts. But Mika, I'm going to set you up for this first. What are the big storylines happening over in the LCK right now in playoffs and what should People be keeping their eyes on. [00:14:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, Showmaker finally did it. [00:14:11] Speaker A: It. [00:14:12] Speaker C: He took. Yeah. He faces demons and apparently he needs to do it 20 plus times to finally overcome it. But this is the hero's journey incarnate like that are coming to fruition. And DK finally took down T1 and eliminated them. So that's the major storyline I think here also. [00:14:33] Speaker A: Yeah. How many series in a row had it been? It was. It was 21. [00:14:36] Speaker C: 20 or 21. I don't know the exact number. [00:14:38] Speaker A: 21 losses in a row. [00:14:39] Speaker C: And this is series not like individual games. They did get pretty close to certain games. But there was a. There's a story called a DK pattern where DK would win Game one, go really even on Game two, and then just crash out for the rest of the games. That was always a DK pattern that they had against Gen G and T1 especially, and they didn't this time. I think mainly one of the biggest things that they talk about is that the new players and the new acquisition that they got in the bot lane has completed something that they didn't previously have before, which is both firepower and stability, which is something that aiming couldn't provide consistently in comparison to Smash, because that is the huge addition. [00:15:24] Speaker B: Right? [00:15:26] Speaker A: Oh, I didn't realize they got smashed. That was the A bot laner that this T1 subbed in for Gumi Yushi for a bit last year. Right. When they were having Gumiyushi on the bench and there was a whole scandal around or kind of more drama around like Joe Marsh put him back in. Yeah. [00:15:40] Speaker C: So I think smash's strength at the very least right now, the way that I see it is that he's somebody that is very similar to Diablo in a way where he will not wait until the lane phase is over to be aggressive. And he is someone that is constantly going to mechanically check his opponents because he is confident that he's gonna win out at the end. I think it's very different from the way the Kumayoshi lanes, which is something that I think what pace is more used to where Kumayashi is the one that who tries to get like the small chip damage in until they hit that critical mass. And they have to see the lane eventually because Kumayashi was really good at landing on auto where the other person couldn't. But SMASH and Diablo, the another AD carry that is on the rise, are instead players that will walk into the enemy's enemy's range and then just play it out and then they're Confident that they're positioning and their reactions are far more, far superior. And this time they were to the point that they would win out at the end. I think that was really exciting to watch because. [00:16:41] Speaker A: So what I'm gonna finish your point. I'll hop in. I was just gonna say. So what I'm hearing is it had nothing to do with Showmaker overcoming Faker. Well, it was just the bot leg. [00:16:52] Speaker C: Yes and no. Right. Because Showmaker actually had a lot of bad performances. Allegedly. Very few people considered him to be the main reason why they won the game. But I want to argue the opposite way. Mainly because maybe this is hindsight talk, but the major focus of T1 was enhanced was they would sack bot lane drafts to focus on get pick, getting power picks, especially for mid jungle. And their goal was to just shut Showmaker down. Because Showmaker is the best roaming mid laner in the entire region. [00:17:28] Speaker B: He's had a good split. [00:17:29] Speaker C: Yeah. And he's really famous for champions like Rise tf. Right. Like, those are his staples and they will successfully. They successfully put him down multiple times. Like, there was very few occasions where he was actively ahead in lane because he was essentially playing a 2v1. But even when he was behind, he didn't. He always did one. Like at least what a mid laner should do or exceeded expectations. And I think that was a huge reason why T1's like, composition started to falter because their entire draft strategy was revolving around just putting DK down early and then using that lead to solidify wins. But Showmaker, despite dying multiple times in the earlier stages, just refused to back down. [00:18:15] Speaker A: Interesting. Well, hey, it's cool that DK was able to pull it off and actually beat them because it has been a long time. [00:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I think that, like, we're seeing. And we were talking about this before we started recording, even for the Patreon, which you guys should subscribe to. No, we had. We had a good pre show content this time around. Patreon members. We talked about everything but 50 minutes. Yeah, I think that I had a thread or a discussion. I started with Tack. As a Twitter user, there's a lot of data about, like, gambling, but he has a winning model. So I think it sometimes is interesting to, you know, just talk to those folks and see if they can find edge or what kind of edge they're seeing. It was a thread about that and I kind of talked about how I valued Lucid pretty high. I feel like lucid's kind of underrated or where he's at in the LCK or like where he's usually ranked. And I think game five he definitely got lucky with hitting a few smites against owner. But yeah, I. I think it's like the other team that's really on the rise like Miko was talking about with bfx. First off, it's two younger teams or cores that are rising up in the lck which has been really hard to do. Like think of the mid laners that have ran that league now for as many years as they have other roles. I think you've seen some shifts and who is good or who's the best. But we're seeing more players and I think teams kind of try and mix things up over there, especially this. But it's been a fun story overall. But the cream, the crop, the best of them is Diablo. This guy's crazy good. But I was just talking about how I value Lucid more because I think Jungle is a much harder role to transition to the next level AD is the most figure out in terms of scouting. It's how good your clicks can you react and position of the team fight. Can you somewhat Lane? If not we can laning is coachable. Can we get you there? Right. And then it's like all right, this guy team fights insane. Like he's in teams. Right. I think Jungle is really tough because you have to be so flexible to whatever that new team needs at a higher level. And your game can change drastically given the style or the champion that you're playing. And keep in mind bot Lane is a role where like when a lot of people argue for mages bot, those guys are not playing mages bot. They're so good where they're not going to. But like that's just not in their wheelhouse or their practice for the most part. Right. [00:20:28] Speaker A: Not everyone can be double left threat. [00:20:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So like as a jungler you have to play AP assassins, AP tanks, 80 fighters which are running the meta right now. But that can always change too. And you could be. It's. I just think it's a much harder role to adapt to in a five man team. And seeing how Lucid's gone about it, I've been really impressed and it definitely feeds into the team that's impressed me in EU who are out now. But I. I've been really impressed at how Lucid's transition. I think he's had a nice year. [00:21:00] Speaker A: Okay, cool. Well, I think that the. The storyline's in lck. I love the DK one but it seems like and this is the final point here, Just because we're going a little long on the LCK topic, seems like Gen G are still just like the top dogs, right? They've dropped what, one game? I think somebody had mentioned that to me earlier. [00:21:15] Speaker C: I'm just gonna keep consistent with the jungle theme here that Cubby started. And by saying that, yes, the reason why Genji is so dominant, I think, is because Canyon is back in form again. So Chovy and Keane are still individually the best laners. But the interesting thing about Canyon is that he will play your standard meta Junglers like Xin Zhao. He'll play. Typically he will play Jarvan and flag steals, for example, twice in a single game, he would just literally drop a Jarvan flag and then it'll kill like it was still Barons. [00:21:44] Speaker A: That's crazy. Wait, what? [00:21:45] Speaker C: He did it twice in a single game, like, and, yeah, like, it's. That's just pure luck, right? But he's just like, oh, yeah, like, I didn't know how lucky I got. But some. And then when he needs it, the T, he just picks Nidalee and just annihilates the enemy jungler, right? I think very few eight like junglers right now have the courage to say, okay, like, I could just straight up just carry this game here. Just give me Nidalee and I'll end the game within 15 minutes. [00:22:10] Speaker B: And the latter playing Kane. He plays Kane in like, what the fuck? He's a nut for playing Kane. [00:22:18] Speaker C: He's so flexible, right? And he will take charge of the game when they ask him to. And I think the coach that they just acquired, Ryu, is someone that is very heavily player agency based, where he'll be like, okay, like, this is your plan. I'm going to support you, and this is how I would do it. Right? And I think that type of system is going to work really well with Genji, and that will probably result in them waiting for a stand. I don't think any other team could ever challenge them at the point that they have been, but who knows? Who knows? [00:22:50] Speaker A: Like, listen, man, I think that's the perfect transition because let's talk about the teams that could compete with Gen G. Serves me right for putting two LCK guys on a podcast and saying, hey, talk about lck. I feel like that's probably more than we'll talk about LCS this, this episode based on how those win. But there. There are teams that are going to try and challenge them. Some of them are going to be the ones that we talk about coming up next year. Because it's time to hop across the pond. Let's start with LEC this coming weekend. Yeah. Because usually we do lcs. I. I want to. I want to talk about lec. LCS was a lot of dud games. LEC is where some of the more interesting ones happened. Cubby, I know that you had been watching a lot of these. [00:23:28] Speaker B: I. I have not actually, but I had to watch a lot of them because I did power spike last week. So I caught up on EU and I. Because it's playoffs and LPL has been off, I've watched more eu. So in the last couple weeks I'm updated. I missed out on the regular season, but for the last two weeks I'm good to go. We. We haven't seen everything but I. I can talk about it. [00:23:51] Speaker A: Well, hey, opinions is mostly what we go for on this show and generally the worse the better because our opinions historically have kind of bombed out Kangas. Especially this past year. [00:24:02] Speaker B: If anyone has watched the LCS broadcast Kangas, giving opinions for good content is an age old tradition I'm very familiar with. So I. Okay, I am glad that that transition. [00:24:11] Speaker A: Well for you I did somehow become like the most talked about broadcast member. This split just for the shopify. [00:24:18] Speaker B: Well, everyone gives what is right and so giving what is fun is very fun. Like I'm not even kidding. I'm trying to be right. [00:24:27] Speaker A: You know, you got to go crazy with it occasionally. I did. [00:24:30] Speaker B: Sometimes crazy happens. [00:24:31] Speaker A: The problem is I was actually crazy and I did actually believe it though. And I love that some people gave me the benefit of the doubt by being like, oh, it was like just a meme like for content prediction. And like yes, that was maybe half of it, but the other half was authentic belief that they were gonna be good. But lec, I'm happy that you're at least caught up on some of the story lines because storylines are the name of the game. From this last one. There were a lot on the line this past weekend. We saw some of the Titans fall early and we also saw some of the mainstays continue their dominance. Like who the hell doubts G2 ever in in playoffs I guess is the the name of the game. [00:25:08] Speaker B: What do you mean, Steve? They were the seventh seed. [00:25:11] Speaker A: They were the seventh freaking seed, dude. So I'm just going to run through the the kind of what who's remaining in the bracket stage right now. So currently we still have GX, KC, MCO, G2. That's all. That's all that's left. KC, MCOID, G2 coming into the year were expected based on regular season best of ones. I think that this is a little surprising to see that these are three of the teams remaining. But Cubby, there's one notable legacy org that is not remaining anymore. One specific name that is typically always in the finals against G2. They kind of bombed out early there. Anybody I'm missing here? I. I don't see a certain orange logo. [00:25:55] Speaker B: Is. Are you going back to the days of EU L LCS where they were consistently in finals against G2? [00:26:01] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, I guess. Fair. [00:26:03] Speaker B: That's why I got confused. Yeah, that's why I got confused. I'm sorry. [00:26:07] Speaker A: Well, hey, I mean, I still think that they are the team that usually can. Can like make things interesting with G2. And like, they have had some surges in the last couple of years. They did not have a great split. [00:26:17] Speaker B: No. Fnatic looks dead in the water. It looks like a team that has no direction. And I don't know what they have as a strength. I don't know like, what they have going. And that's as a team of five. I can speak to the players and what I know about them historically, but as like, as a team of five, I can't tell you what style they were good at or what lanes they were better at playing around than others or could they play sides, like, because it was all just. They played the game and it. It wasn't motivating at all. And that's sad. Like, I really don't know how to talk about Fnatic besides that. And that's. That's frustrating for me. Like, what I. Who I want to talk about is Navi, because I'm surprised that Navi is not the top four. And Ryleck has been a really, really impressive rookie jungler for me, as someone that has played a bit of a different pool, which I'm okay with, especially if you're a young Jungler, because he's also played it well. But I think again, adapting into Jungle, that's a really hard role to adapt to. And Navi, this is the first year they really got to run the project. So they didn't really make changes to the team when they acquired Rogue. Right. This is the first year they still [00:27:21] Speaker A: had a pretty rough roster. [00:27:22] Speaker B: Yeah, this is the first year where they've been able to make the changes. And it looks good. Like, I know it's a fifth place finish. I really thought they were gonna top four. And I know that the series went Giants way and Miko wants talk. Giants and they played well. But just want to give a shout out to Ryuak and Navi on that project because they turned an Orc spot that fans were really frustrated about into something that I find really exciting moving forward for the lec. [00:27:46] Speaker A: Yeah. And also Poby got his revenge against Fnatic too. He was able to take down Fnatic and then make a deep run here, you know, in. In playoffs as well. Their magic as MCOID was tough because I feel like Poby was the reason they lost that game too. Like he rise ult into a bunch of people and then just dies and then like MKO is just able to end the game there. But the series against GX was very, very close. And it was actually myself I wanted to talk about gx. I'm gonna just run with that one. I feel like there were very entertaining series. There were a lot of one sided series, specifically like G2, McOil, that was another 3, 0. Every best of five this weekend across LCS and LEC was all three O's by the way. It's just LEC had a lot of best of threes kind of before that. Best of five? [00:28:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Best threes were fun. [00:28:29] Speaker A: Best of threes were pretty fun. I actually really enjoyed watching GX's Journey. They are in the top five. I think they're gonna get a little throttled by KC but I think that they're a fun team to watch and I just like the style of League of Legends they play. And I got a question for you, Cubby, because you might not have watched that much regular season, but you have watched a lot of one player named Busio. And I'm going to ask you a question and I want to just get your reactions. Is June the best bard in the west? [00:28:58] Speaker B: No. [00:28:59] Speaker A: I know Busio's in you right now. [00:29:01] Speaker B: It's still Busio. [00:29:03] Speaker A: It's okay. But juice bar dude is insane. [00:29:06] Speaker B: Yeah, really good game. It's good. But I. I've got more tape on Busio's just being utterly nasty. Sincerely. [00:29:13] Speaker A: We have seen on tape like higher highs. But yeah, supports that are able to play bard in like that type of style where you're able to in a team fight pivot between or rather, rather like between team fights. Pivoting between using your ult as primary engage. Then the next fight you're ulting your ad carry who's getting via ulted before the damage comes through. And then immediately next time it's on Cooldown, you're using it after a teamfight win to get the Final pick on the mid laner who's about to get away. Like like we saw every version of how Bard's old can be used and June was just giving us a masterclass on it. So I was very very impressed with specifically June and also just gx I think very very fun to watch. Lot had a lot of really solid like team fight. Laney face still I think is like the weakness of the team across the board in general. But like get this team in an even state in a team fight. I'm excited for what they're able to do. The problem being that they're up against KC who have a lot of really good leaders and they might not be able to get to that point. But yeah, outside of that, what were some of the big big matches that you were happy about this past weekend? Kobe with with LEC. [00:30:28] Speaker B: I mean G2's got to be the story because BB just played so well this past week. I know that G2 regular season we're kind of figuring out how to play the game. That looked pretty apparent and they put broken blade on carries and he just owned like from start to finish the games that he played. Which is really good to see because I when BB's at his best I think that guy is a very good player. But he's had tournaments where he's been a weaker link for the team. He would definitely say so himself too. And yeah I think that him inform makes like he's gonna need to be informed for me for that team to work is I think they're at their best when Hans and him are winning lanes to kind of caps does better helping with that than what him winning his own lane. And I think that Hans and BB are both very capable laners and players to make G2 look their best when skimming and caps can just go to each sideline and destroy which is I for me that's what that team has been built to do. So BB not performing to his best. I think that's part of why G2 has come up short in the last couple international events. He did not play like that this past week and that's a good sign for G2 who are looking like they are going to first stand if they continue to play like this. Even if I thought KC was my favorite, I am flip flopping. I had KC getting the first stand off of the little EU that I watched. I I like the KC project that was built too but if G2 is playing like that I would we didn't see the best series out of Kana, I. I really favor. Really favor G2. [00:32:01] Speaker A: I mean, I honestly still favor McOH over Casey, especially if we see this jungle support combo, like, continuing. Elio and Alvaro have played immaculately together. You watch their series against I'm blanking. Who was. Was Navi. They just played Navi. Like, watch what Alvaro does on the map. I was getting, like, SEO's contracts flashbacks where it's just like, this is a support who's just tied at the hip of the jungler and constantly roaming around and helping them out. Helping mid lane out, like, Alvaro was all over the map. Now, it didn't work against G2, but I think that it could still be something to look at going into, you know, a potential Casey. I'm assuming Casey's gonna be gx, but I think that, like, if you just don't play the calliston busio and say, okay, just try and let your ad carry survive and then, like, play elsewhere on the map, you're probably not gonna out 2v2 that bot lane anyway. So I think. I think it's gonna be competitive at that lower bracket finals. I do think G2 is just looking crazy good. Like, CAPS is in form as well, and it's scary when Caps is not playing like craps. He had a rough early start to the split, but has just consistently leveled up every. Every single game. So, yeah, G23 owed MCO. They two owed KC. The two teams expected to give them competition didn't drop a game to them as they are gonna wait in the finals. Who else have we not talked about? I guess Team Heretics. They had a. Had a Barrett steel against gx. That was kind of exciting. It was. It was stenned. Who had, like, unsealed spellbook and, like, rel W's over the pit and smite Seals Baron. That was like, the only cool thing that really happened that got them back into the game to win. But other than that, Team Heretics kind of had a petering out of their split. Maybe a little better than look than fnatic, though. Vitality. What do we think about vitality? Do you have any opinions on them, Cubby? I. I always thought that they were just the vibes team. I. I liked them. I liked rooting for them because of how funny they are. Specifically humanoid and cars E every time in, like, the voice comms. Two of the funniest players in EU right now. But do you have any thoughts on, like, how they played the game or, you know, maybe what to think about [00:34:13] Speaker B: going forward into Knock Knocko is Fun knock. Knocko's fun. [00:34:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:17] Speaker B: That guy. The guy plays the game. Have you watched any of his gameplay? Miko? Nope. The top. Yasuo lost but he played Tap Yasuo in the narc. You know, he's a good individual. He definitely has the individual talent. [00:34:31] Speaker C: It's traditionally a really good matchup. [00:34:33] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean yeah, it was a decent pick. I didn't think it was terrible in the game, but yeah, I. I think Vitality definitely has some things going on. I just think they are still playing too chaotic or vibes based. Whereas KT and G2 seem a lot more drilled down to just be more disciplined about the game. I. I think Vitality needs a little bit of chaos and random like randomness to be at their best. I will favor G2 and Casey's style every time. So Vitality for me seems like the likely third place finisher. [00:35:06] Speaker A: Okay, nice. Yeah, that's all the. The teams in that competed this past weekend or at least like general thoughts on all of them. If I would say go back and watch anything from this past weekend, check out the GX games, that's what I recommend. [00:35:20] Speaker B: Yeah, Vitality, GX was good. [00:35:23] Speaker A: Yep. [00:35:24] Speaker B: Hold. [00:35:25] Speaker A: I know. It was GX Team Heretics and it was GX Navi. Vitality played versus. [00:35:30] Speaker B: Oh, sorry, kc. Vitality was fun. I. I think that series is fun to watch actually too. That's. That was any of the games that went to three. [00:35:37] Speaker A: Any of the series. Three. Absolutely. [00:35:39] Speaker B: Check out. Yeah. All right, cool. [00:35:42] Speaker A: There you there. You have a GX versus Team Heretics. JX versus Navi and then Casey versus Vitality. The close series, the fun ones, they're a little sloppy, but at least they're. [00:35:49] Speaker B: Shout out busio. Shout out JoJo MCO. You probably aren't making finals, but you know, you might. [00:35:56] Speaker A: They might. I. I still. [00:35:57] Speaker B: Wait, I said Vitality's third place finisher. They're the fourth place. I. I guess there's a long way to go. They're beating GX and losing. [00:36:05] Speaker A: Wait, eventually are out of the the tournament Cubby. [00:36:09] Speaker B: All right, this makes complete. Okay, we're good. I. [00:36:11] Speaker A: You know what? I thought you were talking about next split when you mentioned that. [00:36:14] Speaker B: So I was like, oh, cool. I saw multiple yellow and blue logos and I messed up. [00:36:20] Speaker A: That's all right. Vitality did unfortunately drop to Casey to one in the the lower bracket. But they. Hey, they gave him a good fight. They gave him a good fight. [00:36:28] Speaker B: Wow, that was a disaster. All right, continue. [00:36:31] Speaker A: Let's talk predictions then for this coming weekend. I got Casey 3:1 versus GX. Cubby, what are your thoughts? [00:36:39] Speaker B: Oh, I can't believe how bad I just fucked up. [00:36:42] Speaker A: So you got to know. You got to recover. No, I'm giving you a chance to bounce back here. [00:36:46] Speaker B: I'm not recovering. I'm self sabotaging. [00:36:49] Speaker A: Taking himself deeper. [00:36:50] Speaker B: I have. I have KC3.1. KC3 2 over MCOI and then G2. [00:36:56] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:36:57] Speaker B: 1. [00:36:58] Speaker A: Oh, you got G2 3 1. Okay, so I have G2 3 0. No matter who makes it. I think. I think we're at that point in the split where G2 just know what they're doing and they are just gonna crush everybody in front of them. And we disagree on who's gonna be their final opponent. I have McWay 3 2. You have KC 3 2. We both think it's a close series, though, so I think that's at least interesting. All right, cool. Well, there we have it, everybody. Lec was fantastic this weekend. Highly recommend going and checking out at least the close series. And then if you want to watch G2 and in G2 form and you're a JoJo hater, he got a little gapped this past weekend, so you got a lot of fun stuff to. To go back and watch. And then also this coming weekend, it is playoffs already. [00:37:40] Speaker B: Crazy to think JoJo Gap the last series against Navi. [00:37:44] Speaker A: All right. [00:37:44] Speaker B: Sorry. [00:37:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:47] Speaker A: Happy about that. [00:37:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Again, he did have Alvaro in his lane, like, five times. [00:37:55] Speaker C: That's fine. [00:37:55] Speaker B: Each game he played, he played really well. The Navy series. I. We. I was not supposed to backtrack you more than just that, you know. [00:38:02] Speaker A: That's okay. It's okay. But that is gonna do it for Lec. It's time to hop across the pond back to North America and talk about the lcs where many times this split so far this year, I have said LEC games. Not a lot to talk about. Not that interesting. LCS is where all the fun was. Guys, we had three 3 0s. Miko, we had three 3 0. [00:38:29] Speaker C: I saw all of them. They weren't pretty. [00:38:31] Speaker A: You saw all of them? Yeah. What was the closest? Do you think there was a closest 30 in your memory? [00:38:40] Speaker C: TL Probably. [00:38:41] Speaker A: I'm very curious. [00:38:42] Speaker C: I think that's. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's the. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Yeah, Just. That was. That's the only answer. I. [00:38:49] Speaker C: Because, like, when I saw C9 versus Fly Quest, I watched, like, the first few minutes of game three, and I'm just like, yeah, like, they. They have no chance. And then I sat through the entire alliance vs Fly Quest game again. And I'm like, this is actually just the same game repeated three times. And that was, yeah, that blew my mind was that I really respect junglers that are actively making plays. Mainly because I think jungle right now especially is a very finger checking role where you are supposed to fight the enemy jungler after you get a certain point of levels. [00:39:28] Speaker A: But [00:39:31] Speaker C: the fact that he, the fact that Griffin tried to do the same thing multiple times back to back in both the series against Blabber and Inspired. I'm just thinking either this guy has either no conception of coaches debriefing their players at the back in between games or he's just autopiloting. I, I think it had to be either one. [00:39:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it's tough to know. I mean obviously you've been in a coach position before so. So you have a unique in insight into what those conversations would look like. I try and veer away from like those types of assumptions. It definitely just looked like there was an idea in one player's head of what is going to happen and then another player literally reading the mind of said player and saying I know exactly what you're trying to do and I'm gonna be in the correct spot to stop it. [00:40:26] Speaker C: And it became so like something that coaches actively do in between the games is not only review the mistakes that the players have made, but give clear information on the tendencies of the opposing player and where specifically where the level one words are. What the jungler, what the jungle pathing was that they perhaps did not catch. And so to me, when he is invading Raptors in game two and three, when it didn't work out in game one, I'm just thinking either that the active feedback was that they just needed to play it better or, or that he just didn't take it that seriously. It's either one. [00:41:02] Speaker B: I, I can kind of see where you're coming from with that because I, I was just gonna add on that that is something that definitely would have been in a good team scouting report when looking at Fly Quest. Like Griffin was making this play in regular season two. I mean it's a common part of the game right now and it's, it's a good play if you take that camp away because you're trying to find a way to beat the jungler to six, enemy jungle to six before the crab. And if you take one camp away then it makes that crab that's really op that spawns right now, makes it so that it doesn't still give you six if you're able to get a camp like that away, or it opens up windows where you can get six earlier. [00:41:41] Speaker C: I also feel like Inspired is the last jungler that you want to try this against, because he is. His playstyle has always been optimization. He's the guy that. Who knows the cooldowns of his camps to the table and the opponent's cooldown cooldowns. So to think that he'll. You'll be able to heist, quote, unquote, heist it away before he gets there is a ridiculous take. [00:42:03] Speaker A: Well, I'm trying to think back to what Kabbia just said, though, because the game one, Griffin goes and evades the Raptors, but Inspired gets the 530 crab and hits level six off of it, and he's nocturn then ulting into the Raptor pit to stop it. So he was able to hit level six even without that cam. I don't remember if he, like, doubled, crabbed maybe, or, like, what had caused it, but I know that he was able to hit that, like, very, very fast. Either way, it wasn't just the Invades. Like, there are multiple times Griffin tried to. [00:42:34] Speaker B: I think he split the Raptors that. And that's why that game. But that one's. I mean, I can maybe go back [00:42:40] Speaker A: and look, I was casting the series. I just remember the Inspired being level six and in that moment, identifying, like, Griffin's trying to hit Level 6 on the Raptors, but Inspired's already there. But it wasn't just the Raptors. It wasn't just the early invades and, like, Griffin getting punished. It was also the moment that Griffin would go to Elaine. Inspired was there. Like, in. In game one, again, Griffin goes from, like, the Raptor Invade to then a top gank Inspired there for a counter gank. He just knows Griffin's gonna be there. Game two, Inspired, Level five, Malphite knows Griffin's passing bot side. And so then he goes up and he goes top and kills Gakkos and gets a kill to Dokla. And then it's like this. Olaf's behind in one matchup versus Ksante. That's a tough spot to be. And then again in game three, even, like, it just feels like Inspired knew where Griffin was going to be to such an extent that it didn't matter if Griffin was invading or ganking or farming. Inspired knew exactly where he was and was doing something to counter Griffin. Whether it was countering the invade, countering the gank, or ganking. On the other side of the map, where Griffin Wasn't able to hover and cover. So yeah it was, it was in, in insane jungle like master class. [00:43:53] Speaker C: I just think about the way that he min maxes the game and the reason why he gets so upset when his laners get ganked is because he's very good at picking the location of the enemy jungle. I think he, he's someone that is capable like reading the, reading the specific plays that the player other player can do and then relaying that info. And I think that is something that he has Mandela developing even when he was in Rogue. Because one of the reasons thing that I remember actively when I was watching Inspired in Europe was that he would benefit the most ironically from mid laners that would go even instead of just trying to risk like their like their own like lane welfare to get solo kills. Because Inspired is that guy that will constantly put like identify ID the jungle and where they are and then continue to grow in the jungle like just by farming camps and then optimizing clearings until he gets to play the insane like uses insane mechanics, objective fights. That's been the style that he's been known for for some time now. And I feel like he nailed it spot on when he said that like new new junglers like Crier and Griffin try to copy him. Because I don't think that's a wrong take at all. I think that's actually a pretty accurate take. They just don't either have the experience or the foresight yet to call Inspired out or try to like read like catch on to his like juggle reading as well. [00:45:18] Speaker B: Yeah, they might have to fill more in solo queue, you know. No, sincerely like try out all the roles. Yeah, yeah. And Inspired plays like mid and top other stuff a lot. It's really important to like get an idea of sometimes how those lanes or like timers work for those liners. [00:45:33] Speaker C: And he also is a player coach, right. Like he's somebody that is actively able to teach other players the game to a very high level. And I think that comes with his risks. But if he has a cooperative mid laner like Saint, which seems to be getting along better than quad at the very least at the moment. And yeah, I just think that they might be the one to challenge Cloud9, but I'm not too optimistic either. Cloud9 just seems too dominant. But I think it's safe to say [00:46:02] Speaker A: no, I, I, I do agree that they are the team that they can challenge them 100 and I like that you brought up something there and saying working with Inspired because that's the other big storyline from this. [00:46:11] Speaker B: Yeah, same point. [00:46:12] Speaker A: It's all three O's. So we're taking a lot of time talking about Lion Fly Quest because this was, I think, the 3.0that gave us the most information about who is going to be the one to challenge C9. Because so far nobody has been able to. Saint stepped up. Cubby, like saying, it looks good now. He actually was able to win his lane. He was my player of the series. I made a tweet, I was like, I can't believe he didn't win player of the series. I mean, yes, Inspired played incredible, but I feel like Saint was. Was the one that really like got them across the finish line. If Inspired was the one that started their engines. But if. If saying can perform like this, Cubby, I think that he actually. Now this is a team that's scary. Now this is a team that's a threat. [00:46:51] Speaker B: No, I mean in the regular season, like, I was tweeting, like, what the hell is Saint doing? Like, reviews, we've been talking about Saints gameplay. Like, why is. It's been a lot of like. Like these are big misplays or why is it like this? You know, I like the little stuff is going very wrong. And it was. It's kind of weird because Saint is a good player, like a very good player and was last year for lion in the lcs. So seeing that discrepancy, I mean, I was like, this guy got skill vampired. Which is sincerely what felt like it like, happened. So I'm glad that we saw much more of the Saint from last year because I was like, really concerned off his regular season games because I don't think he had a single good game in the regular season. Like, thinking back on the tape, I went over. I really thought he was playing poorly and it just. Yeah, he was. He played well statistically. [00:47:44] Speaker A: Even statistically, he was like. And I know stats don't always tell the story, but yeah, in like gold difference at 14 XP difference of 14. Damage percentage damage per minute. Like all the stats that you want a mid laner to be high end, he was like seventh or eighth in a league with eight. [00:47:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Which is. [00:47:59] Speaker A: And it was Zinnia. [00:48:02] Speaker C: I think the reason why I'm so optimistic towards the Saint that was here to this time around is other than like, I think his KDA being really high is really impressive. But the fact that he died only once in the series is even better. Just because. Yeah. [00:48:15] Speaker A: And it was a flashy play that like he could have not done it, but he like got really hyphenated. [00:48:20] Speaker C: I think that is what Inspired wants out of his mid laners. I think that has been the thing that he benefits the most from. Because when the game is not volatile and when he gets to like farm his camps efficiently and get to a specific point that he wants to hit in the game earlier, then that's when Inspired is the most fearsome. Because I haven't seen NA or even European junglers recently that are as scary on champions like VI and Trundle that than he is to give me confidence that he is indeed that flexible person that could just basically do anything. [00:48:55] Speaker B: I. I think Malkai is a scary champ for me because if he like. If he gets ahead in the game, he just shuts down the game. I know blabbers gets talked about more, but I think Inspired plays that champion [00:49:04] Speaker C: really well because I think he had a major resurgence this year. Mainly I. I contributed to. [00:49:09] Speaker B: He's been quite good. [00:49:10] Speaker C: I contributed to apa to be entirely honest. [00:49:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I think they're a good parent. [00:49:14] Speaker C: That's. [00:49:14] Speaker A: They're really. [00:49:15] Speaker C: That's my take. [00:49:16] Speaker B: But I agree. [00:49:17] Speaker C: Yeah, but those two guys playing against each other is actually gonna be such a fun series to watch. I hope it goes to a league at least. Yeah, five, four games is my guess at the very least. But if it goes to five games, even better. [00:49:29] Speaker B: If same plays that well, the line will get like. That'll be a competitive series if Saint can play like that. I just hope Saint does that again because I again the regular season like he did not play well. [00:49:39] Speaker C: APA is at its most vulnerable in game. We got best of fives though. Right. I think that is something that he needs to prove to the audience and the fans that he did. He does indeed have a bigger champion. But on the right side is that Ari is now playable now and that is one of his best traps. [00:49:53] Speaker A: So it did get buffed. Yeah, but. But first they got to get there. So. So we're assuming I. And I also am predicting lion to make it all the way to the finals. But they got to make it through Team Liquid. They got to make it through Sentinels and Team Liquid. I mean you're talking about like the. That being maybe the closest series. That was the fastest series of the three O's. That one was over in 76 minutes total. The I think Cloud 9 was for Sentinels was like 84. And then FlyQuest lion was actually the longest at like over 90 minutes total. But what. What do we think, Kelly, about Liquid and kind of the form that they're in after smashing Disguise, specifically smashing that bot Lane and that jungle as well. [00:50:31] Speaker B: I have TL in the finals, so I have TL winning the series. [00:50:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I think that's fun. [00:50:38] Speaker B: Poor Yawn are still laning very well and I, I think that they will get the best of the Berserker Isles bot. Lane. I Berserker's been I think playing okay. Lane, he's been better than I think in grouping scenarios. But I, I think that Core and Yawn are laning very well. I thought that TL the mistakes they made. So I thought the DSG series would go to 5 because TL were making some pretty big mistakes in games that were killing their tempo because they are drafting to play fast and drafting to put games away early, which is typical, you know, spawn TL team. And they have been the scrim gods that everyone has talked about behind the scenes. So they have been playing well in that aspect of the game. I thought their issues were pretty fixable and this past week looked a lot better. So I think in a way some of these early losses have been good for TL because they are still playing really well in the early game. They're just on stage now not making the wrong decisions and overplaying their hand which I think was important. Most frequent mistake to make sure they're putting games away in a really good manner and inspired is going to have edge as a player. If Saint plays well. I think that that mid Jungle duo can have edge too because I think Quidden Jose have been a little game to game variants so I think lion can make progress there. But I, I trust TL actually like a lot in the sides and just the style I'm seeing from them to actually put line away in the series [00:52:12] Speaker A: what I'm most concerned about. And Mika, maybe you even have thoughts on this because Morgan is a is a player that's come in from lck. I feel like top Lane is the biggest mismatch for me where I honestly think Morgan's going to smash Dokla. Dokla has not looked great in Lane specifically. He's actually one of if not the worst laning top laners in LCS right now. And Morgan is up there with Thanatos in terms of just smashing people. Even Thanatos himself in an interview was like, yeah, I think Morgan is the best laning top laner outside of me in the lcs. So I that's where I'm concerned. Miko, do you first off, do you agree with me that lion are the team that can challenge C9 and then also what are your thoughts on like that top lane matchup and how that could skew the this team liquidity. [00:52:58] Speaker C: So I think that's the reason why I'm a little bit biased more little towards Lions main my main reason is because the way that I understand the meta this is my opinion I'm I'm prone to okay like I'm welcoming any counter arguments because I genuinely think there are specific parts of my argument that is a little bit like it leaves spaces for interpretation. But the successes that the LCK teams, the top tier teams have been having are the ones where either option one when it comes to BFX where the AD is willing to blind and still win late but more commonly option two is when the top side is willing to blind pick power picks that are less prone to extreme counters to give bot lane setup in the draft advantages advantage of the draft phase. I think Lions is definitely in the number two house for sure. Mainly because yeah it's just gonna slam Renekton or like Scion every game or Rumble or Scion and then just take it right. He's the guy that would be go behind 30 like 30Cs down and then just sit around. [00:54:10] Speaker B: I appreciate this defensive doko. [00:54:12] Speaker C: Yeah I do And I don't mind that if he has inspired in his jungle and berserker in his bot like right. I think that's something that is a draft trend that Lions has over them mainly because I think one of the biggest mistakes that disguise makes was that they're really confident. They were really confident in Castle's performance and the moment that Castle stopped getting like stopped utilizing his counter picks to the degree that he has been before like the NASA's top the game just broke apart because they're like okay, like we're we gave this guy counter pick but why is Morgan winning? [00:54:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:54:45] Speaker C: But if the person is if Dokes is not aiming to win the game and if he's aiming to slow down the game to the point that his carry line and his jungler could actually help him out in skirmishes and he picks champions like Renekton, Sion and Rumble that are capable of just doing their thing in team fights without a major gold influx, then just structurally that seems to be a little bit more advantageous. But as opening up for a debate it's always has to do with a degree. Right. It may come to the point where Morgan may destroy Dokla to the point that he is not able to do his top lane frontline things in the lane after the laning phase, so we'll have to see. [00:55:27] Speaker A: Okay. [00:55:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:28] Speaker A: But I do like that breakdown of like, top lane. Yes, Morgan should be getting the advantage, but does that translate to a win for Team Liquid? That's the next question. I just to be raised. [00:55:40] Speaker B: I appreciate the Dokla tidbit that Miko gave because I very much agree that he's just the dog on that team. And I think he's actually taking it pretty well because he really just does kind of get taken out back for the first 15 minutes every game. And then he has found ways to be relevant later on, I think. Very relevant. So I think that he definitely deserves some credit for that. But yeah, I. I have TL favored. I think that Morgan. Morgan has been really willing to blind champs like Ambessa and then just destroy on these champions to a degree that no one else has been able to do in the league. And that's really given TL a lot of power. I think my biggest concern again is just mid Jungle and I think tl, Top and Bot are winning enough. Where in jungle is gonna survive? Or like, TL is going to be okay? [00:56:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it really has to do with the scale, like gravity level of like, how much behind they could get. Because I'm giving my credit to lion because I think TL still makes a lot of critical mistakes when it comes to them controlling vision and actually utilizing it. It seems like only Corejj understands how to utilize his vision other than. And Jose Diados seems like really disconnected from that. But maybe they could fix the throwing stuff during scripts then. [00:56:59] Speaker B: I somewhat agree. I think that I have more faith in TL to play the way they did last week than lion, though. [00:57:07] Speaker A: Oh, really? You think like, consistency is gonna come into play? [00:57:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:57:13] Speaker A: That was the first look at lion being good. Team Liquid looked good against C9, even though they got two owed by them. I agree. This season they looked like competitive. They actually pushed C9 very hard. [00:57:24] Speaker B: But game one really well. L. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:57:28] Speaker A: So I can see that point also. [00:57:30] Speaker B: Sorry, what were you. What do you think about that one though, Miko? Like, because I know you were talking about Lion's performance, like TL's mistakes. [00:57:36] Speaker C: It just feels like. I just feel like TL's comp and the way that Spawn teaches the game is just utilizing minion waves. This is a completely different side tangent. But long story short, utilizing minion waves in League of Legends after this new season has become much easier and it became less of a specific craft and it's been more of an ongoing stance where it is statistically 50 more likely that you're playing around the Minion Wave now. So I think that strength of TL has gone away. It's something that they used to utilize super well and it's something that spawn and CoreJJ new to the T because of their high aptitude for strategy and now they have to actually go out and then try to play people in a straight up 5v5. And I think those are the moments where they would they. They seem a little bit let more disconnected than others. Mainly be with Jose Dildo and Quit. I haven't seen them being that great in the past. Like I whenever I think of them I'm just like, yeah, Quinn and River was better. That's just the only thing that is like floating in my head. [00:58:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that Jose Deodo just is a very different style jungler than River. And Quid had played with the with river for so long that you. You get used to those tendencies. And yeah, we. We haven't seen that. I have not seen that link yet between Jose Dieto and Quit either. Well that leads one other best of three that we can at least touch on here before we cover our full predictions for the the coming weekend. Sentinels versus C9 it also happened C9 another Swift 3 0. We finally saw Apa on Zigs. So that's cool. Usually that's a perma ban. Somehow he got that game three. That was ridiculous. [00:59:16] Speaker C: That's just disrespectful, man. You can let him have Ziggs. [00:59:21] Speaker A: You didn't think that the the Twisted Fate was the answer? [00:59:25] Speaker C: No, I. I just feel like Apa is one of those players that are so like one of his greatest strengths is that he's very good at controlling space. It's something that I noticed a lot mainly because I mean what champion requires you to control space better than original aso which was his former one trick, right? [00:59:43] Speaker B: Oh, the Ziggs. [00:59:44] Speaker C: So like I just feel like it's one of those picks where APA could just bring it up any day and then just squash people with it. Because it is also an amazing laning neutralizer. Right. Like it's so I just feel like TF is also at a point right now where the strongest TF build is unplayable in pro. And I think that's the major discrepancy between the statistics and solo queue versus statistics and pro for what is the the highest gunplay Gunboy tf. [01:00:16] Speaker A: Ah. [01:00:17] Speaker C: Because the gun blade's Active range is longer than your gold card range. So before, before you get that rapid fire cannon, you could taste a person, slow them down, stun them and then that is a, that, that is a what? 1.5 second like slow and then almost a 2 second stunt. So you're eliminating an ad carry out of a team fight for approximately 3 seconds to 4 seconds. But you can never do that at pro because you're not surviving a lane phase against a pro player with a vamp scepter. [01:00:49] Speaker B: Right. [01:00:50] Speaker C: That's the biggest, that's the biggest weakness of a Gunblade. So that, that's, it's a side tangent. But mainly I just feel like you just don't give somebody a champion that he's been historically known for winning. Especially at such a high stakes game. I, I just feel like that was something that they could have discovered like discussed in scouting but who knows, like the coaches are competent for sure so they must have had their reasons. It just didn't feel good that the last game ended up being that one where APA just got his best champion and they were just like yeah, this is why we don't ban, this is why we keep banning this. [01:01:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:24] Speaker A: And the last one being the most one sided. Also like that was 23 and a half minute game. Cubby, what are your big thoughts or big takeaways from either C9s win and how they're looking going forward or from Sentinel's losses and what we can maybe expect from them because they're still alive that they were technically the number two seed and are now in the lower bracket lower bracket finals. [01:01:48] Speaker B: I mean Sentinels could show up and win. I just think that C9 is playing too well right now and they really shut down Sentinel's bot lane. That has been a strength for them. I think Rahel has been fantastic this play it that, that matchup for me was between the two best 80s in the league so far. And Sven handled that bot lane very well with Vulcan. [01:02:07] Speaker C: Isn't it really amazing and. Oh sorry, go ahead. [01:02:11] Speaker B: No, no, you go. [01:02:12] Speaker C: Isn't it really amazing how good Sven is despite like him just rotting away in Dignitas for a whole year? [01:02:19] Speaker B: Yeah, he, I, I, Sven for me [01:02:23] Speaker A: he was support for a year, right? Two years. Like that's crazy. [01:02:26] Speaker B: Well he had run away there. He was quite a good support. I, he's a impressive human. Like the few times I've interacts with him. Yeah, like really, really impressive. [01:02:34] Speaker C: Wonder what his mindset is. Mainly because it's very difficult for AD carries to stay Relevant for a really long time as he is. Right. Because how long has Sven been considered contender for one of the best AD carries in his region that he was competing in not only in LCS but also in eu? [01:02:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I do think mechanically like. Like I can't put him in like the S tier 80s globally or like I think there are better ones still. I would say historically in this league. But this year he's been the best. Like just did everything. I think his Venus played really, really well this year. [01:03:11] Speaker A: What if we just talk about LCs? Do you think he is at this point? There's an argument that he is the best AD carry and like has surpassed Doublelift in terms of like the. The best AD carry. No, I just. [01:03:25] Speaker C: Yeah, me too. I. I think Double is still the best. [01:03:27] Speaker B: You can't surpass Double Diff. But Sven is. [01:03:29] Speaker A: You can possible to. [01:03:31] Speaker B: It's gonna not this batch. I think every. Like no one can do it within two years. Who's in the league right now. [01:03:38] Speaker A: Even as Venn wins like all three titles this year. [01:03:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:42] Speaker A: Makes finals at MSI or something. [01:03:43] Speaker B: I mean if he does something internationally [01:03:45] Speaker C: crazy, I think that'll be cool. [01:03:47] Speaker A: That's the one thing Doublelift has the. The finals at msi. [01:03:50] Speaker B: I mean Sven's pound for pound resume though you throw in EU time is already better than double diffs, so. [01:03:56] Speaker C: That's right. [01:03:56] Speaker A: Yeah. That's what like if you're looking at like number of titles he's won. [01:03:59] Speaker B: Oh yeah. You said lcs. I just like as an lcsad. Double. Double lift is. You can't beat him within two years. Sven is a player like career wise. He's had a better career than Double. [01:04:10] Speaker C: Yeah, by far. [01:04:10] Speaker B: But he has not been a better AD in the LCS than then Doubledift was like just taking his tenure in the lcs. [01:04:17] Speaker A: Okay. So just time and lcs. I was combining his. His EU resume. [01:04:21] Speaker C: Okay. [01:04:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:21] Speaker C: If his EU resume is completed though like Double squad. How many Western like AD carries could actually rub against him? I can't think of one. Only like only champ. Only person that I've seen that reaches the high that he does is ironically perks when he was playing for 80 for G2. Because that was when I was like, oh my God, he's so much. [01:04:40] Speaker A: Maybe Hansama, maybe Double and tl. [01:04:42] Speaker C: You really want to. You really want to get there. [01:04:45] Speaker B: I just. I mean I think the thing for me has just been that Sven outside of the early years wasn't the guy on a lot of his teams and honestly to his credit, I think this has been the team where he's been the most like the guy in if they end up winning the split, which I think that would again really be to both him and Vulcan's credit. But I think the big thing for me with C9 this year is just I think past iterations of this team. First off, APA and Blabber are the pairings for each other. I think they. This was. I was talking about this pairing when it was JoJo Blabber because I really wanted. I didn't like that pairing. This is the pairing that I think Blabber needs as a player. Blabber for me has always been the player that needs to play with resources. I don't want to say running through him but built around him just because of where he's the best at Jungling which is playing fast like always doing something right and prioritizing resources. APA is the best mid laner at like helping that with his pool and executing and view and playing the map. [01:05:50] Speaker C: I think it's really clever the way that Blabber plays the game. It reminds me a lot of like really aggressive Junglers especially in the lpl. Mainly because his entire motivation revolves around the fact that he's very cost still very competent in his fighting abilities. So he's going to put actively put himself in a position where a neutral is contestable but not guaranteed. I think he's somebody that who's really willing to like border that risk risk taking taking and ultimately will come out on top because he is confident in his abilities. I think the best showcase of that was his most recent Nidalee game where he was someone that was like hey like I will like if you guys give me the ammunition then I will ruin the other junglers game game. And that reminds me a lot of Canyon in some sense to a lesser gravity. And APA is the perfect mid laner for that. One of the best things that I love about Apa this is a little bit of bias coming from him because I did coach him in the past is that he's somebody that who will actively say okay like six minutes. Losing six minions isn't as bad as the other jungler getting their entire pathing ruined. And he will actively leave the lane when it's not a cannon wave minion where he instead of losing one single cannon he may potentially lose a whole whole six waves and then like some and he will continuously support his players. I think that is like a flexibility that a lot of top tier mid laners have had in the past, notably I think of Caps [01:07:20] Speaker A: Doinby, I mean even back to like a previous example [01:07:23] Speaker C: we were talking about and I think that's perfect Blabber. He needs a mid laner like that and I think that's the reason why they're so successful. And I don't think that success is going to die down as well because it is inherently just those two players best strengths being combined to a single synergy. And the only time that it will ever die down is if they lose their primary strength or their identity which I think is much harder. [01:07:45] Speaker B: I mean well right now they have that with the top laner for Hu Mei or the top lane that Sienna has for me is the MVP of the league so far this year in Thanatos. I think that the gap between him and the next best top laner is the biggest out of any role gap there is. [01:08:04] Speaker A: I don't know. He hasn't won player of the series yet. [01:08:06] Speaker B: So yeah I he deserved to win one of those for sure. I have to go back and think it would. It was not the fly quest one but and then Sven and Vulcan have been the best bot win this book. They've been fantastic. So I think when like when you have that for blabber and Apa and you pair it with 2 saw Danes and again my biggest credit for C9 is it feels like they've embraced getting the little things right really consistently. I think in the past we saw them maybe skip out on clearing a brush or warding a brush or playing on the right wave because in the regular season they were really far ahead on stage and would make those wins in playoffs and we would see that get punished. I don't have the same feeling about this team. I think this team is playing really really good League of Legends. Like they're playing the map really well. They're playing as a team really well. They're playing really really good League of Legends. I, I, I think that they would have to self implode or make mistakes in order to lose which of course could happen. But what they've put on the Rift as a product so far they're really good and I, I want to see them go up against G2 internationally. I mean I think that is a, I favor G2 but I think it's a fun matchup or, or cake. [01:09:15] Speaker A: I actually have an interesting thought about that in that part of the reason they're not getting or not making as many mistakes or as punished as they were last year is because the rest of the league in my opinion has gotten worse. I don't think that like I. Yes, C9 is the best team in the league right now, but I don't think that we have a team in the league that's as good as FlyQuest was last year. [01:09:36] Speaker B: No, we definitely don't have. [01:09:38] Speaker A: We don't have like the upper teams that are competing. We don't have like the Team Liquid. Even the hundred thieves that like went on pretty deep and like had some good showings. Like I think TLs. I think that the. The strengths gone lower. [01:09:52] Speaker B: I agree. I think TL is a good team. I expected this coming into the year though, because I. I really feel like the team with the best western chance to do well internationally is K Corp. I. I actually, I think it's K Corp and G2. [01:10:04] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a wild take. I'm gonna not touch that one just because I want to finish up LCS conversation with predictions. But then we can maybe double back on it. So we're all in agreement. C9 is the best team. But let's talk about who we expect to meet them in the finals this weekend. Team Liquid are going up against lion to kick things off. I have Lion 3 2. Miko has Team Liquid 3 2. And Cubby, you also had Team Liquid. Was that a three? 23 1. [01:10:30] Speaker B: 3 1. [01:10:31] Speaker A: 3 1. [01:10:32] Speaker C: I think I have to flip to Lions. 3 2. Just thinking, just more. More. [01:10:36] Speaker B: I think about it. [01:10:38] Speaker A: More. [01:10:38] Speaker B: That's fine. [01:10:39] Speaker C: More I think about it. I feel like Lions has the edge. It just. I just trust those guys more in the best of. [01:10:44] Speaker A: Join me. Join me in my terrible prediction rates. Yes. This is what I do, Cubby. I poison the minds of those around me. Then whoever wins that one's gonna go up against Sentinels. I think we all probably agree that whoever wins that first series beat Sentinels. I have Lion 3 0. Cubby, who do you think takes that? Team liquid or sentinels? [01:11:07] Speaker B: TL and what's the series? 303 0. [01:11:12] Speaker A: Beautiful. And then Miko had Team Liquid 3 0. But I assume you're changing that. [01:11:15] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's gonna be 30 no matter what. I don't think Sentinels is that great of a team except their support. [01:11:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I do agree. Who he's like the best individual performing support in the league right now. [01:11:27] Speaker B: That is how he's crazy. I. I think for Hell. [01:11:30] Speaker A: Crazy. [01:11:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I think for Hell's. I mean who he's playing outside of. Lane well. But that guy does not lane well. And that's okay. I think that's part of like player strengths and weaknesses and he makes up for it outside of Lane, which I think is more important in that position. [01:11:43] Speaker A: But I cannot watch Lane with a magnifying glass. [01:11:46] Speaker B: I cannot. [01:11:46] Speaker A: I have seen him support. [01:11:48] Speaker B: I cannot. [01:11:48] Speaker A: I can. I have seen him do very, very smart things in laning phase as well. So maybe we're thinking of different landing phases, but that's my take. [01:11:56] Speaker B: I think Rahel's very good as well. [01:11:58] Speaker A: So we had a lot of goodbye lines in the league right now, but we all have C9 taken at the end. I got 3:1. Miko's got 3:1. Cubby, are you on the 3:1 train or do you think it's 3:230, go 3:2. [01:12:09] Speaker B: I think highly of TL. I do. I, I think TL actually can like they play good league. [01:12:15] Speaker A: All right. But still we think it's a C9 across the board here. Yeah, that's basically expectations. I don't think there's anything too surprising here. If anybody puts sentinels winning, that would have been a surprise. But the Lion TL series is going to be close. I, I could see either one of these teams taking it. I think it's a Lion, but I would not be surprised if it's TL. I just hope it's not a 30 either way. God damn it, please. This is the one that has the highest chance of going to five games and also it's one that I get a cast this coming weekend. So very, very much hoping that we get the full five gauntlet. [01:12:48] Speaker C: I know it'll be fun and I think a lot of the major picks that are being played [01:12:55] Speaker A: right now, they [01:12:56] Speaker C: have plenty of time to experiment with it and yeah, I just want to see more top point Aurora in in lcs. I think it's something that can be super volatile and it, it will something if TL actually wants to play the like we will put Dokla behind so much to the point that he'll be invisible in fights. That would be one of the champions to give to Morgan. [01:13:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I, I was actually talking about that on LPL last night because there was a game where I wanted the Aurora Flex top. They didn't. I wasn't sure. I don't know why. [01:13:26] Speaker C: I think another scaling option that TL could explore is definitely Zahen because that definitely feels like a Morgan champion to me. [01:13:33] Speaker B: Dude. I think Jungle Zahen, by the way, is so broken. [01:13:38] Speaker C: Absolutely. [01:13:39] Speaker B: C9 has the right read on that. That champion is an abomination coming out of the jungle. Like, like. Holy. It's op. But yeah, it could be. It could be played. Top two out of the jungle. Holy, that thing is so nasty. [01:13:54] Speaker A: These flexible jungle top lane picks like Mbesa, like Zahen, even Aatrox, Heldarius. You know, maybe we get a Darius at some point, right. That got buffed in the jungle. They're trying to make everything a jungler these days, but that's gonna do it. For our predictions for LCS and lec. Miko, it's been a while since we've had you on. Where can people find you? Are you still posting these days? Are you making any content on social media or anywhere else that people check? [01:14:21] Speaker C: Really? I just like whenever some. Whenever I see something that actively makes me angry or very like happy is only when I like post stuff. And recently there hasn't been that many. But yeah, I mean, I sometimes use Twitter. I don't even. And so you could just follow me on that, I guess. [01:14:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. I believe that's Miko lol. [01:14:43] Speaker B: Is that it? [01:14:43] Speaker C: And then check them out on Twitter. But otherwise, yeah, I'm just now a recluse when it comes to social media. [01:14:53] Speaker A: I think that's where a lot of us are trending right now. If it weren't for my job, I would absolutely be in that camp firmly. Cubby, where can people check you out with any content that you're doing these days? [01:15:05] Speaker B: Cubby xx on Twitter and also YouTube, I believe. Yeah, I. And then support LPL English. We got playoffs going on for LPL and It is an 18 double elimination bracket. No format bseri. It's that good. [01:15:21] Speaker A: Nice. Oh, finally. Dude, the LPL format's crazy. So is. Well, okay, but like it helps when [01:15:28] Speaker B: your league is willing to play all the games and that is. Yeah, that. That definitely helps the format. So, you know, you just play all the games. 18w them bracket. Not a problem. Let it rip, you know. [01:15:41] Speaker A: Hell yeah, it does mean a lot of work for you. And all the support does help out the team a lot. So everyone go check out LPL Unofficial or LPL English Unofficial on socials and then also on Twitch. Go support if you can. It's a great little project that everyone's going on. Yeah, we got Mazel. We got Yanni. Now we got Cubby. So we're just collecting the Infinity Stones of all the LPL unofficial casters on the podcast. We should do like one episode where it's just only you guys and we just talk about LPL all day. [01:16:11] Speaker B: They actually have Started the podcast over there as well. [01:16:15] Speaker A: Oh, nice. [01:16:16] Speaker B: That we publish on the LPL English channels, which I've not been a party yet, but maybe I'll have to do an episode. I don't know. I, I, I, I'm a part of the project. I have not watched over half the games this year and there are a lot of LPL games but, but I was only on like regular season games. I only covered like five or six teams just given the days I was on. And then I was like, I repeated the match. I asked for early slots only just because of sleep schedule and that meant I was mostly group Nirvana. So the shit teams. But that's okay. We made those casts fun. You know, we had fun casting High shouts. [01:16:54] Speaker A: The Nirvana casts are the best ones. Those are my favorite ones to watch. [01:16:57] Speaker B: We had fun with high challenge feel. Yeah, we, yeah. [01:17:00] Speaker A: All right, well, thank you guys both for being here. It was awesome having two guests on next week. It should be a return to some of the more regular voices you hear on the podcast, but who knows, Maybe we'll sneak you two guys on in more episodes in the future if you'd like to come back. But thank you also everybody who supports the podcast, either through the Patreon or through the Merch Shop. It helps us get the audio sounding nice and crisp in these episodes and also sometimes throw little, you know, off season content things or help out with community content going on around the scene. It's all your support that helps us do that. That's it for another week though of league rundown. We got playoffs next week for LCS and lec. By the time you're hearing this, it'll be days away because they start on Friday. So mark your calendars, everybody. We got some weekday games coming your way for LEC and for lcs. So see you there on broadcast. But until next time, you see us here on this podcast. We love you and we'll see you next time. Bye bye everybody. [01:18:03] Speaker B: And the big Bigle Pickle.