League Rundown - Episode 552: No one gives the LTA a free win on our watch!

[00:00:12] Speaker A: Gets hit. Kimmy kids a little too far here. He's gonna have to try and get himself out. Let me go. Tillery and the rest of the shots of fire. Zion is just killing the next. Zion can eat it single handedly win the game by game by game by game by should be. Oh my God. Stupid. Passes through and manages to the table with Messiah tanking it up. I do not believe he just believe. I cannot understand this game. Unicorns of Love. It wasn't a mutant. The Nexus. Hello and welcome to episode 552 of the League Rundown. This is your 2025 First Stand Part 2 episode. And this one is entitled no One Gives the LTA a Free Win on our watch. I am your host, Kangas. And I'm joined by three esteemed co hosts. First we have Mr. Mazzopio. [00:01:25] Speaker B: Hello, I am Depresso Espresso and I'm here to talk about wonderful League of Legends. [00:01:31] Speaker A: You know, the two regions that you're most proud of. Maybe both kind of shat the bed in the first week, but you know. [00:01:38] Speaker B: I'm cleaning up shit all day, baby. I got. I got my hazmat suit on. We got shit all over the walls. It's like that episode from Daddy Daycare or whatever where there's just. [00:01:48] Speaker A: It's all over the place. You can't control it. But also joining us, we have somebody probably celebrating a little more. We got Badger. [00:01:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean there. There's a couple of close calls in there, but hey, Hanma Life 4 0. [00:02:03] Speaker A: Never doubted. [00:02:04] Speaker B: They lost the. Casey. Oh my gosh. They lost the game Liquid. Oh, it's. [00:02:10] Speaker A: It's over. You know, Burn the ship. [00:02:12] Speaker C: It's. It's so damned. They're so. [00:02:14] Speaker B: They. They're just gonna get three of them right now. Just leave the tournament Mid tournament. [00:02:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean that's probably the only chance anyone else has of winning. But the one of the other teams that did well and somebody who's happy about them. We got RMC on the cast. Yeah. [00:02:28] Speaker D: Random Minions. Ctbc Flying Oyster. Apparently today you. [00:02:33] Speaker B: You're. [00:02:33] Speaker A: You're the one that has to show because you weren't on last week's episode when all of us were like, we don't really know how to rank this team. And then immediately you're like, guys, why the hell are you ranking them so. [00:02:42] Speaker D: Yeah, you're just bragging on the CFO the entire time, bro. [00:02:48] Speaker A: Yeah, well, hey, I'm happy. [00:02:49] Speaker D: This is their meta. This is their time. They're like knockoff lpl, except LPL cropped a bit. So they're actual real LPL now? [00:02:55] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. They get promoted now they're the real LPL representatives. Well, I'm happy we have you on the cast now to, to correct us of our bad opinions from last week. Also, if anyone's noticing a difference in audio quality, I am traveling right now, so I'm on a different mic setup than before. So hopefully the audio sounds good and everything's working, but in case it's bad, my apologies. [00:03:15] Speaker B: Can we just talk about how this is all just a vacation for Hana life to just have the most fun possible time they could possibly have? It's literally, literally like a chartered Disney adventure for them. What do you want to play today? [00:03:28] Speaker A: Okay, Badger, you were looking at the, the champ pick rates and I don't know if this is spoiling something that you wanted to reveal later, but how many, like, unique picks, team wide, have they had so far? It's crazy. [00:03:38] Speaker C: Like, so, so they've had four. Technically, if you look at it just based on how many different champions each player has played throughout the entire thing, it's 40 different champs over 50. [00:03:49] Speaker B: I will just say 50 possible. I will just say I don't. I love Fearless, but I'm, I'm hesitant to say this is purely because of Fearless. This is purely because they know they're better and they can. [00:04:05] Speaker C: No, it's 100 because they know they're better. [00:04:07] Speaker B: Literally. I feel like everybody's using this as a microcosm to like bump up feeling. Oh my God, look what Hollywood life is doing. Fear. No, they're just disrespecting the shit out of their opponents. And they're getting away with it, like. [00:04:18] Speaker C: Metaphorically putting it on the table and just being like, show me what you got. [00:04:22] Speaker B: Like, yeah, literally. And in the post game interviews, they're like, oh, no, we respect our opponent. Fucking hold up one second. [00:04:30] Speaker D: Tell me one bad pick Hanma has picked so far. Like that. [00:04:34] Speaker B: I'm not saying they're bad, they're just not meta and they don't give a shit. [00:04:38] Speaker A: I'll tell you, I'll tell you, they're bad, Quinn bad. [00:04:41] Speaker B: But I'm not saying that that's because of Fearless. Like, that's what I want to get away from is everybody's like, oh, but this is what you get from Fearless. No, this is just what you get when a team is that much better than every other team. [00:04:51] Speaker A: I, I hard agree, Baz. I think that this is literally them just goofing around and having fun and it's fun to watch. I will say it's not fun to be on the receiving end of, but it's purely just from a spectator point. Fun to watch. We'll talk a lot about HLE on this episode, obviously, because they are the first seed coming out of the group stage. But first I want to get some of the global news out of the way before we hop into all the games and what happened up first. You talked about Fearless Draft. There was a leak. Esports dropped the news. Fearless Draft looks like it is continuing into more of 2025. What the full scope of that looks like. I don't believe was in the leak, but it's just leaked that Riot is going to have something to announce saying Fearless will be around still. Let's just get everyone's opinions on that one. Yay or nay. Happy or not. Miselle, I think you and I, you universally agree we like Fearless, right? [00:05:45] Speaker B: Yes, I do like Fearless. I think there are some qualms with it that I would have being like the permanent solution to things, but it's a really easy stopgap for Riot games to make sure relevant again. [00:06:01] Speaker A: It's the quick solution. Badger, what do you think? Fan, not fan. [00:06:10] Speaker C: I like it. [00:06:11] Speaker A: Okay. That was a very unconvincing wow there was that. I like it. Do you really like it better? You can be honest. You can dig up on. On Mark Merrill. [00:06:23] Speaker C: Sorry, can you repeat the question? [00:06:24] Speaker B: No. [00:06:25] Speaker A: You are Fearless. Are you a fan of it sticking around for longer or do you. Are you one of the the naysayers who says Fearless is bad for the game? [00:06:36] Speaker C: I kind of like it just because it creates like situations of like champion diversity. But like, I don't know. I feel like we need to go back to stale meta of like the same. You know, 16 different champions are picked each game. Just to see like, I mean it's the same five bands in the first phase of draft and to the same like pool of 16 champions that get varied around just to see if we like being like, oh, do we like it when Zeka pulls out Quinn Game two against Team Liquid. Definitely not the reason why he picked Quinn. Gave two but just like, like, I don't know. I have doubts, but we'll see. [00:07:20] Speaker A: Rmc, quick thoughts. [00:07:24] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I love Fearless. Like if I'm gonna get surprise contacts, I'd like that's. [00:07:30] Speaker A: That's one way to put it. Hell yeah. Shout out. I sure. Absolutely. I just did not expect it. Kobe, that's the first time you dropped a reference like that. [00:07:41] Speaker C: That's the tier of. That's the tier of. [00:07:43] Speaker A: No, those jokes that we. That was weirdly on Brand. Yeah, that was. That was right in line. Other news though, a lot of people might be thinking because Fearless is continuing or at least that is the leak unconfirmed as of right now from Riot directly. But if that's happening a lot of formats, the split 2 doesn't really line up with that. Specifically LTA the format. But if you were watching Mark Z specifically the the commissioner for lta, he did already make a tweet I think before Firsthand went live last week between the episode airing and then the tweet going out that there's going to be an announcement sometime during or at the end of First Stand about LTA Split two format. I don't remember exactly what the wording was, but that's essentially what he was saying is like I know we've been quiet so far on like making announcements, but we'll have something to say around Firsthand as to like how Split one went and looking forward to Split two. So to me I interpret that as like, okay, if there's going to be a change, they're probably going to announce it at that point, so keep your eyes on socials. Yeah, it only makes sense. Would LPL split 2 format make any sense? [00:08:48] Speaker B: Mazel okay, they've already changed. [00:08:51] Speaker A: Well, that's even more evidence then. Cool. I'm excited for it. Let us know though if you are. The only other roster news that we were able to catch before this episode was the Damonte heading over to Shopify Rebellion. So shout out to SR for picking up one of the the goated mid laners in NA as well as from my what I've heard behind the scenes, one of the best player coaches the players really working with Damonte one on one and just getting direct feedback because he's been a player, he's been in these situations, he's competed internationally and apparently he's just got like a really good feedback structure for players of what they can do to improve and get better. So we'll see if that levels up Shopify Rebellion or not. But if we missed anything global news wise, roster news wise anything, let us know in the community Discord. You can find a link in the description wherever you are listening as well as if you want to support the podcast you can join our Patreon or help us out on our merch website league-rundown-shop.fourth wall.com but that's it for global news. So now what we all are here to talk about. Oh yeah, one more bit. [00:09:57] Speaker B: Real quick, real quick. Before we get into the fun stuff of the actual tournament itself, I have a broadcast conversation I want to bring up. [00:10:05] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:05] Speaker B: I find it interesting. I've been bringing up a couple of conversations. [00:10:08] Speaker C: Are you going to ask about the scoreboard? [00:10:10] Speaker B: No. [00:10:11] Speaker A: To talk about that yet either? [00:10:14] Speaker B: No, I'm not going to touch that conversation with the ten foot pole. [00:10:17] Speaker A: That one needs to be discussion throughout the tournament though. So props to them for. For taking feedback they did. [00:10:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:26] Speaker B: Yep. I have a take that. I think this is the cheapest international broadcast that Riot Games has ever put on in their entirety. I don't have actual numbers, but if you just look at the context clues, it is insane when you think about it. Yep, they're using the LCK studio. They already use it all day, every day, all day. They're using a very small list of talent. That talent is also casting all the series on the day. Except I'm sure they're gonna switch today for Best of Fives. But in the past, even in Best of Threes worlds or in Best of Ones, casters only cast three games and then they switch. So if there's two Best of Threes, they switch between the series. This is one of the first times that they've ever had the casters stick through both Best of Threes. Not only that, they only flew half the talent out there. Then they flew them out over these last two days and flew other talent in like Flowers and Emily who just got there two days ago. So they're completely spending on that budget. Then I also heard rumors that they're using housing in that that is usable for them that's going to be way cheaper than taking hotels and things like that. So like I find it hilarious that like the broadcast is losing so many resources and so much function ability. And I don't know, it's a. It's a curious conversation to me because it's very obvious that it like it has to be the cheapest. [00:11:48] Speaker A: It does in a way feel like the cheapest broadcast as well. Like just from a viewer perspective and like a marketing perspective. And I know part of it is that like for an NA fan specifically, LTA season was so short, so we didn't have this big ramp up with narratives leading up to first stand necessarily. But it does feel kind of like rushed in a way. And the scoreboard also kind of exacerbates that that it's also like a test for a new overlay and that they're updating the overlay on the fly during the event, which I will give credit that, yes, they should take the feedback, but the fact that they're using it as like a guinea pig basically to see does this new overlay, do people like it? Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know. Are there other thoughts from RMC or Badger? That's an interesting point. [00:12:39] Speaker D: I agree that's probably the cheapest. But I don't know if this is a good or bad thing because it doesn't feel that out of place for the event. So on one hand that means the whole event feels kind of small and like, not like I didn't. This doesn't feel like a world tournament msi, you know, like the whole thing just firsthand just feels small in the first place, which is not good. But on the other hand, I think the production is doing a wonderful job given the constraints they have that I'm not really noticing as much that they are kind of cheaping out on a lot of areas. Like the production is still giving good content and I think props to them for being able to do that given the circumstances personally as well. Maybe this is a hot take. I don't hate this more cozy feeling necessarily. Like the smaller crew, the casters being on the entire day. It gives a bit more continuity and. [00:13:27] Speaker A: I'm actually kind of like, hey, I like that. [00:13:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I think on top of all this, the. The biggest thing is at the beginning of the year when they announced these three tournaments. Their whole take was the first split is for funsies pretty much. And you shouldn't take it seriously. It's to show out and try new things and innovate and that's what this whole tournament is supposed to be a culmination of. But besides that initial statement, the marketing has not said that. And I think if Riot Games was proactive and actually tackled the thing that wanted to tackle and say that this is a fun tournament that is not as serious, even though every international we've ever had before this has been serious and everything, like the best of the best, like this one is different, all the splits are different. Like you need to realize that they didn't do that. So every single fan that is part of League Legends, who for the entirety of over 10 years has known internationals to be the best of the best going against it and to take heavy critique on every single player and every single team that is at that tournament, they still think that for this tournament and Riot doesn't want them to think that, but they didn't do anything to not do that. And so I think it's just another situation where Riot wants one thing, but they don't do the work to get that thing. And then they're like, why didn't it work? I just think it's really dumb. [00:14:45] Speaker D: And it's funny, too, because on one hand, I fully agree with you. Right. Like, they needed to set the tone a bit better for this. But on the other hand, I think we were talking a little about this prior to. I don't know if this was on the recording at all, but we're talking about the fact that First Stand hardly feels like it was advertised compared to. [00:15:00] Speaker A: I think that also. [00:15:01] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:15:02] Speaker A: It's tough because every region had to restructure their leagues to make the three split system work because Riot wanted to push for a third international event. The big push was like, oh, international events get more viewers, they get more excitement, there's more overlap in the communities. Let's just do a third one. And if the first of the three, first off, the new one is the first of the year, which I think is already kind of, like, tougher to sell. But second of all, yeah, the marketing's just not behind it and, like, the same value isn't put behind it. So it does feel like. I'm not sure if there's just conflicting goals on the Riot leadership side of what this event is supposed to be, but it's an interesting thought because I hadn't really put it that way, but you're right, Mizel, it almost feels more along the lines of, like, a Rift Rivals quality than an MSI or Worlds quality. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:15:56] Speaker C: That's a good way to put it, actually. [00:15:59] Speaker B: And I mean, you have the thing, like, you could say what they're not excuses and things like that, but when you go to msi, when you go to Worlds, typically, especially for Worlds, you have like a month build up till it starts, right? You're literally there screaming. You're. You're playing every day like you have a normal situation. Over half the teams that came to this stopped playing, like, less than a week before the tournament started and also live across the world from them. So, like, I think it's. It's. That is heavy context that needs to be played into it. And I think, yes, we can say we expect our players to be able to play no matter what, even in different situations, but Hle were the best team slated at this tournament, and they also get to play in their home arena that they've played in every single day for the last however many years. So like I think there's a lot of context that just goes unread in this situation that kind of pertains a. [00:16:53] Speaker A: Random thought I just said. Now the name MSI doesn't even make sense. It used to be the Mid Season Invitational but now it's at the end of split two. So it's not in Mid season. [00:17:06] Speaker B: Yeah, that's why they just start calling it msi. That's saying the full name. [00:17:10] Speaker A: Okay, interesting thought. Let us know your thoughts of of Mazel's point. No, no, I love it. I love the the conversation. [00:17:16] Speaker B: Yeah, sorry for this, but I'd love. [00:17:17] Speaker A: To hear also what the community thinks reminder again, community discord in the link in the description where you are listening. But yeah. Now let's move on to talk about what actually happened at first. Stan Formatting aside, weight of the tournament aside, we did get a couple of really fun games. I will say some of the matchups were duds. Some of the matchups are bangers. Overall, there was fun League of Legends that happened this past week and we're going to cover from each team's perspectives now the way that the standings shake out as it is. We've already talked about it. HLE took first seed. I don't think that's really to anybody's surprise, they were the favorites coming in. Like Bazelle said, they're also playing for the home arena. But surprise second seed. We didn't know where to seed them. RMC is cringing with me saying surprise second seed. But it's CTBC Flying Oysters taking that one and then KC Top Esports and Team Liquid all tied in series scores. But the way tiebreakers works, it's a match series against each other. KC2 owed top top two owed Team Liquid, Team Liquid 21 KC. So because they lost a game to KC, they lose the circle of suck and then get placed last. So that means it's KC Top Esports and wouldn't you know it, Team Liquid dodges fourth seed the destined and instead bow out in group stage. Bummer for the NA fans, but still things to celebrate for the rest of the world. So we're going to go through in order from ranking top to bottom and eulogize Team Liquid at the end. So HLE first seed and Badger. This means it's up to you. Talk to me about how dominant HLE looked at this event. [00:19:09] Speaker C: I mean, we've been kind of alluding to it at this point, but they were just picking for the fun of it. It seemed Like, I mean, Zeka played 10 champs, Zayu's played nine. And the only champ that he repeat repeated was Vladimir. He played Quinn toppling. Like, you know, Viper is just Vipers on a roll. Peanut is, you know, tied for getting first blood at the most, but he. [00:19:39] Speaker A: Still will be up like three camps and a thousand gold game. Like, what the hell. [00:19:47] Speaker C: Him. So if I remember the stat right, Apa and Peanut are tied for how many times they got first blooded this tournament. [00:19:57] Speaker A: You got to be Ian. [00:19:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:00] Speaker D: They've got 31st blood victim rates. [00:20:02] Speaker C: Yeah. So they both have been first blooded three times this tournament. Hey, maybe a good sign for Apa. I don't know. [00:20:10] Speaker A: He's up there with the best light. [00:20:11] Speaker C: Really arriving on the world. I mean, I think the. I think it's good for delight. Just genuinely because, like, we remember those times on Gen G and now that season on Gen G when they were like in 2023 when they were slated to be the best team in the world. They're gonna win worlds, everything like that. And he was kind of one of the reasons why they, they crashed and burned that year. So, like, coming into this Hanma team and like, actually like coming out onto the world stage and just being a strong support player that they need at this point working really well with the rest of the team. They're cooking. I mean, it's spoilers for when we get to predictions later on. I have them, you know, oh, big shock. Winning the whole thing. Obviously. Who could imagine biased or anything like that? Oh, my gosh. Oh, quick. Everybody acts surprised that the. The LCK guy picks the LCK team to win the tournament. Surprise, surprise. But I, maybe they, maybe they just have a little bit of too much fun, as we would call it. Zeka played Zed. Like, what are they doing? [00:21:26] Speaker B: Like, you. [00:21:27] Speaker C: They just don't care about any of the other teams here. They're just like, yeah, you're coming into our home. [00:21:31] Speaker A: Played Kale. Like, dude, this weird. This is goofy. [00:21:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:37] Speaker D: So, but here's, here's my thing. And we were talking about this earlier. Like, I, I don't find. Okay, those picks are weird. They're not things we commonly see. But I also don't feel like they're trolling with these picks. Like, every time they've picked it, I've gone, oh, I can see why they did this. Like, and not just because you're trying to remote the other teams for fun, but like, there's an actual, like, strategic or tactical reason why they're picking it. [00:22:00] Speaker B: I would say yes. But I would also say if they're in a game five of finals, they're not going to be picking Zed and Quinn and that stuff like that. I don't know. I think that that's just the, the, like. I completely agree that it's cool that they're finding viable strategies, but I think if you put their backs against the wall and they needed to win, I do not think they'd be picking these picks. [00:22:20] Speaker D: Yes, but that's the point, right? [00:22:22] Speaker A: You know, it's like both things are happening. They are picking things that do work, they make sense. But they are also things that they know they can flex because they're just better than the other team. So. Yeah, yeah. [00:22:40] Speaker D: Gotta argue. The most troll pick they've done all, all playing so far, all group stage, you know. [00:22:47] Speaker A: Yeah, true. [00:22:48] Speaker D: Got like a Z. [00:22:49] Speaker A: We won that game, baby. Let's go. We didn't have to listen. You just played that every game. But yeah, so, so big takeaways from HLA is that they are the top dogs. Do. Do they have a weakness? Badger, when you're watching any of their games, are you like there's anything that teams can look to exploit going into the knockout stage? Okay, yeah, just jungle still Peanut. Classic Peanut. [00:23:16] Speaker C: Peanut will hand you the game on a silver platter if you allow him to. It's just, it's just on Zayu Zeka and Viper to be like. No, no, no. Like, you know when you have like a kid on a leash, like a, like a backpack leash, and you have to like, you like walk around the amusement park and you just make sure that someone's holding onto the leash at all times. Because when the kid just either runs towards the trap or like the trash or like gets into a situation where they can get hurt. You like, oh no, no, no, no. You pull the, you pull the leash on the backpack. You like get them back towards you. Like that's all they need to do this tournament. I mean, tell, tell Peanut to play these, play these boring tank junglers and just be a strong front line for the best top laner, one of the best mid laners and one of the best ads in the world. Like just you have to do that. Like that's all it takes for this team to win. [00:24:06] Speaker D: Can I just point out you just compared him to a kid. He's the oldest and most experienced player on this roster. [00:24:11] Speaker C: Yeah, but tell me I'm wrong in the fact that Peanut is always the one that seems like he drops the ball at these tournaments for hanwh. [00:24:19] Speaker A: Like I wish I could point out what's wrong with the picture. But yeah, I do have to say I agree. And I think in terms of weak links, it's not a weak enough link to make me worried at all for hle. But it is where you could look to attack and it's where teams did attack. [00:24:34] Speaker C: Oh yeah, no, it's like the Team. [00:24:35] Speaker A: Liquid series for instance. They invaded Peanut. They like got a first blood on Peanut in one of the games. None of it really felt like it mattered. I guess the invade really put him behind like frickin umpty flashing over the the Baron wall to then go bramble smash steal the buff with all the zire plates on. That was pretty based I will say. And I put him really behind. He was able to catch back up. But like even the other games where it seems like okay, peanuts behind, he's hatching up and like the team is still playing fine regardless. Like it doesn't seem like oh they're chickens with their heads cut off if peanuts behind. So it is where you can look to get a gold lead. But then maintaining that gold lead is so brutal against this, this team. Man. Like we see this all the time when it comes to international events is oh na teams. Okay, we scrap, we fight. What do we do afterwards? Do we get the wave in? Do we get the turret? Do we get the the dragon? Do we get these vision TP flank wards down for the next fight. And HLE like man, anytime they scrap, anytime they win a fight, it seems so purposeful of like they're getting something immediately afterwards. They're just all instantly on the same page. And that pace of League of Legends, like there's not that many teams in the history that have been able to play league at that level. But I that's. It seems like they're the team that's doing that the best right now at this event. So yeah, I think Easy, easy favorites out there. Any kind of final wrap stuff for HLE though Badger or if anybody else has other thoughts on the team and how their kind of series went over the the last week. [00:26:16] Speaker B: I think Zayas is the best League of Legends player in the world for the last two years. [00:26:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And also shout outs to Zeka like their solo lanes are so far and ahead the best solo lanes at this tournament that it's. It's just tough to even think about like how they're gonna lose. [00:26:37] Speaker B: Oh and sorry, one second. [00:26:44] Speaker A: Yep. [00:26:46] Speaker B: Delights Alistar is. Dude, he can never be allowed to have that champion ever again. He is way too good on it. And he literally, like, is 1v9 in fights. [00:26:58] Speaker D: Yeah, that's. That's so weird. I will say as well, for the lck, what kind of scares me a little bit is that I don't feel like when I watch the lck, Hle was like that far ahead of every other LCK team, but they feel like they're that far ahead of every other team at first stand, which makes me wonder, is the LCK just. [00:27:20] Speaker A: I mean, they did have a lot of close series on their way here, right? Sorry, Mazalia. [00:27:25] Speaker B: I. I agree. [00:27:26] Speaker A: They did have a lot of close series, right? [00:27:29] Speaker B: No, you're totally good. I do think context of what all those things we were talking about earlier heavily overshadows this conversation, because I think it's like, you can say that, but also, again, they're playing from home. They've literally played in this arena all season long. All these teams are getting thrown in here after every. A lot of weird, awkward formats comparatively to what this format is here at this tournament. Like, I would say that definitely there is like a conversation there, but I would not outright say that they're just that much better than every other team. [00:28:04] Speaker A: I think this was hosted got very. [00:28:06] Speaker B: Very lucky with the situation they were in. [00:28:08] Speaker A: We'll talk more about them later and how tough they've looked. Well, okay. But I think there's truth in the argument that, like, not having to travel for an international event should be an advantage in. In and of itself. But that doesn't mean that they aren't also the best team in the world right now. It just. It adds to that. Right. Okay, cool. I like it. Well, I want to move along, though, because we do have other teams to get to. Hle the big bosses of first stand, they are leaving group stage as first seed. But we already said maybe surprise. Maybe it should not have been a surprise. We're about to hear why. Because the Oysters, the Flying Oysters, only drop a single series and that is to hide. So RMC talk to us. Why were we so wrong about expectations or lack thereof for cfo? Because to be honest, last week I didn't know where to put them. I hadn't seen the tape of their games. So you're going to be educating me a lot on what I missed out on. [00:29:06] Speaker D: Sure. [00:29:06] Speaker A: And what I should have been prepared for. [00:29:13] Speaker D: Yeah. And I think that their second place and didn't drop a single game to top Esports, I think is a bit of a surprise. Like, I had them doing decently, but I Didn't think that take the LPL quite that handily and again I think part of that's tops performance. But Flying Oysters as a whole, I mean they've been to multiple international events now. Like they are a decently strong team coming out of the LCP and this split as well, they made some huge changes which which really caught my eye and made me think that they were actually going to take it. First of all, they got Junja from PSG Talon or formerly PSG Talent, not just Talon and that's huge when they swap junglers like Karsa's. But Junja fathered like generations of international like junglers as a Brazilian, you know caster like yeah, we, we have generational trauma from Junjia at this point. So them getting Junja has. Is massive for them. And traditionally the LCP has always done well in late game team fights. When their AD carry scales up, when you got ginger, you accelerate that. Then their AD carry. They got Doggo back from the lpl. Like this guy was good enough back on beyond gaming that the LPL sniped him from. From the APAC region at the time from you know, Taiwan. And now he's back playing for Flying Oysters. [00:30:23] Speaker B: Just don't look at his time in the lpl. Just forget that time. [00:30:28] Speaker D: Yeah, you know, he didn't have the best time in the lpl but I think now he's back in the lcp. It's more familiar grounds and the team I think plays better around his playstyle or he fits the team better. So I expected them to do well. The meta too is perfect for them because the meta right now is like team fight. Team fight. Team fight and play fast and skirmish and team fight side. And that's exactly what the Flying Horses wanted to do. So it feels like it's the perfect time for them to be popping off. And I think we saw in firsthand too what they excelled at over every other team was. Well, it's a very short I guess was that they were willing to fight and they were collapsing faster. So when teams want to make a play, it's never that one person you're fighting. Like if you're you know, collapsing on wrestler driver in the top lane city. Junj is there with Kai Wing. Like the supports there. Like when did that happen? You go for Doggo who you think is exposed and. And Hongq is actually just roaming down there at that point. Same with Junja. It always feels like they're moving faster. They know where the play is going to be and they're going to show up or they don't show up at all. That's one thing I think teams are not punishing enough for Flying Oysters is they know where they want to be and they're going to play for that. If you fight them where they want to be, they're fighting the entire Flying Oysters. If you play away from them, sometimes you just don't show up for the objective. And that's fine. Like, that's what they want to do. But other teams can take a bunch of that rather than trying to echo that. [00:31:40] Speaker A: Like, Delight has had some incredible engages. We were talking about Alistair, I think Kai Wings impressing me just as much like Kai Wing's engages. And when he's pulling the trigger and saying, let's go in, it just seems maybe it looks better because the team's just backing him up as opposed to when, like you watch Crisp or CoreJJ do it. And it's just like a little sloppier because the team's not there. But very impressed specifically with Kai Wing. But it sounded mozzelle like you might have had thoughts on that. [00:32:07] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I. I think Hong Kong deserves a huge shout out for the like. [00:32:14] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:32:15] Speaker B: Not only stand how he's been playing, but, like the stance he's been playing in, the kind of aggressive nature he's been able to, like, ride the line with and get away with. I think as a rookie player, like, that's so huge to see and I know everybody's calling him a prodigy, but that's the kind of stuff you love to see from a guy who's getting all that hype around him. I want to see consistency, obviously from him, but I think having that power at mid lane is so huge. [00:32:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:36] Speaker B: Also the fact that Doggo is styling on all these ABCs, by the way, he plays Locked Cam like one of the only players I've ever known at this level to play Locked Cam. And he moves his camera with his directional arrows so he uses his other hand to move like it is one of the most wild things I've ever heard in my entire life. And he is dumpstering these in team fights. Like, I don't understand how he's doing it, where Doggo found the motivation. But, like, it is nice to see because I was always a big Doggo fan and I remember when Fofo made him cry on the stage on BLG because he was talking shit to him live on stage. [00:33:20] Speaker C: I forgot. [00:33:20] Speaker B: I'm happy to see. But, man, all these other ADCs they gotta get their shit together. You cannot be getting. [00:33:27] Speaker A: Okay, I did not know that. That gives even more respect to the name because. Yeah, Taco's been popping off. They've been winning bot lanes together and is hunky. Somebody on this roster is the. The youngest player at this tournament. Right? Is. Is it Honky 17? [00:33:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:45] Speaker A: Okay. He's having such a pop off. [00:33:51] Speaker D: Yeah, he played behind Gory a little bit lost Split. Yeah. As a sub he played behind. [00:33:56] Speaker C: My co host is 18 years old. [00:33:58] Speaker A: And he's doing this on the international stage. [00:34:00] Speaker B: 17 get wrecked. They bent the rules. They bent the rules. But aren't there. Are there just as a little caveat. Wasn't there like a whole thing about the sheared of getting to play emotionally? That's so funny. [00:34:17] Speaker C: I. I don't know, man. [00:34:19] Speaker A: Yeah, he looks. [00:34:20] Speaker D: He doesn't look like a rookie on the stage right now. Like he's going. [00:34:23] Speaker A: I guess players, we haven't even talk. I love the top lane swaps. So this is something we did talk about last week of like this is a unique strategy a team can do where you have two different top laners in a fearless draft specifically because oh, you played Scion one game. [00:34:39] Speaker B: Cool. [00:34:40] Speaker A: We'll put the guy in the plays Jax next game and then see what happens in the series. Like it's. It's way easier to approach fearless and they've been doing that. Right. Like driver and rest have both looked good to me. I think actually now I'm blanking which play carries is that. No, that's driver because driver's driving. Rest is resting. Oh really? [00:35:02] Speaker D: Driver plays the tanks. No, driver actually plays the tanks and then rest. The one who plays weirder things like he played the Jayce. He played the Karma. They usually open with rest but rest has a really good k'sante as well. [00:35:16] Speaker A: Okay. In a game one. Yeah. [00:35:18] Speaker D: I think that's one of the reasons why they're opening with him because they have more options with restaurants and then depending on how the game goes then yeah. Except that they've been consistent. [00:35:25] Speaker A: I just think it's such a cool strategy because if you're gonna have fearless drafting this makes a sixth man roster make more sense to me. We've had this argument in the past of like oh, having two junglers. Right. Having different champ pools and different play styles. Well now there's like a very clear advantage for that that you know, especially when it comes best of fives. Yeah. Lane swaps being done and now best of fives approaching. It's going to get even better, especially. [00:35:49] Speaker B: With the lane swaps being. [00:35:49] Speaker A: I think it's just really cool. I love that, that. [00:35:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:35:57] Speaker D: With Fearless too. I especially love it because you have two very separate chapels. So if you burn through one, one player shampoo like you switch to. [00:36:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:06] Speaker D: It's like a whole different chapel all of a sudden like all the champions are effectively available for that player. [00:36:11] Speaker B: Yeah. I. I also think Chawy deserves a Hugh's huge shout out because he even put in like the interview recently, I think from last night or something where he's like, it could be very difficult to. To pilot a six man roster, especially with like players, egos and things like that kind of the context clues from what he was saying. And I think he deserves a huge shout out for how he's been able to use them and like keep them motivated in that way. Because I think a lot of players in these days, if they were having a split time, I don't think it would go very well. [00:36:42] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean every coach having to approach fearless drafting, that changes the job so much and let alone having to manage multiple personalities and egos and stuff like that. So yeah, I think mad props. Yeah. And second seed. So there you go. Flying oysters. Congratulations. Very impressive. We'll see if they can keep their run going because their opponent based on the seeding of the event is going to be the next team that we talk about, which is Carmine Core. The good old Kaiba Cora did show up. They lost their first series to team Liquid and oh my God, the Na Hopium was at an all time high. Everyone was already like, we lost a world seed to this or not to this region but like we lost one and they still get three. But they, they kind of bounce back in a way. I mean they still get beaten by the Oysters, but they made quick work of top esports. They actually brought HLE to a game three. Now at this point HLE was already kind of locked, so who knows how seriously they were taking it. To be fair. Yeah. [00:37:42] Speaker B: To be fair. To be fair, they've unlocked some secret technology from the dark ages and found a way to mind control people, which is pretty awesome. I think it's something we're not talking about because I think Carmine Core being able to mind control all the other top players. [00:38:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it was actually their coach was backstage. Yeah, I think, I think Cream's eyes. [00:38:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I saw one of the coaches. [00:38:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. [00:38:23] Speaker B: Like Kanavi just. [00:38:25] Speaker A: They reversed his control. [00:38:26] Speaker B: When he clicked down, he went up instead. [00:38:28] Speaker A: It was really hard for him to to adjust. [00:38:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:38:38] Speaker D: I think that they, they went a little too hard. [00:38:39] Speaker A: It was a pretty esports but I mean that's the one series win that Casey got was the top esports one and that one did look pretty solid. But like their game against HLE that they picked up dude, Kalist had a pop off performance on that gin. Really, really cool stuff but draft wise for that one it did. I liked their draft more like Ivorin into a pretty low damage compared is just good anyway. But overall this team feels like they've been ramping. Like they looked rough at the beginning but they have looked better as the week went on. Question mark still around. Are they just too young and like inexperienced to handle the travel on the international stage like Kalist? Vladi like these are guys that this is newer experiences and it's going to be tough for them to kind of get on the same page as everybody else and really catch up to some of the more veterans that they're competing against. But also we have other examples where like look at you know, mid lane 4 CFO popping off regardless of that too. So I don't want to give that as like a an excuse for them but I think that's a question mark in my head is will they get back to a consistent form by knockout stage because they are against who did make pretty quick work of them. So does anybody have. I actually haven't looked at like their champ pools. Badger, I know that you were looking at that. Do you have any like information on KC on if they have like crazy high champ pool? I don't remember them like drafting that many different things. [00:40:14] Speaker C: I don't think. I don't. I think the only team that had like the two. The two wild outliers for it are how few different champions CFO picked and then how many different champions Hanwell picked. I mean see Clist had 8, Connor had 7, Targumus had 7, Vladi Yike both had 6. Which 6? 7 is like the kinder kind of standard sample for pools for this tournament. [00:40:42] Speaker A: So. [00:40:45] Speaker C: It doesn't seem like it's too out of the ordinary and it doesn't. [00:40:48] Speaker A: Seem like Casey's drafting anything like crazy out of pocket for what they do. I mean like pulling out Brand Jungle. We've seen it before but not as much as like recently. But it's still fine. Like I still like Yikes Brand and then kind of pulling out the Aatrox. We've seen Aatrox kind of teased a Little bit throughout the event and even like towards the end of split one in some regions. But I'm still not fully convinced. It did pick up a win versus top, but I just, I don't love the Aatrox pick. I don't know if other people have like big opinions on that one, but overall for Casey, I think that they're just kind of drafting pretty standard. Although you know what they did do Yuumi Bot Lane. They did do a Yumi support game in the series. They lost the team. Like that was a little crazy. But I think that if going into their series versus cfo, I don't expect that they're going to have anything like crazy, which could be good because CFO hasn't done anything too crazy either, other than just having like the top lanes that they can switch out, which might be a problem for Kana. You know, we'll have to wait and see. [00:41:55] Speaker C: I mean, I think like the Aatrox, just because like this, it's like the specific matchup that he was going into with the gnar on the other side and having an ivern in the back pocket too kind of makes it a little easier for the Aatrox to function. And this. I don't know. [00:42:11] Speaker A: Hey, no, I. I liked that one because we won that game. Maybe get the parasite out of here. Yeah, we. Oh man, if only we could talk. I mean we will talk about the blue, but if we could talk about the good things more than the bad things. But Casey, I think there's enough good things here. Like even the Team Liquid series, they still looked really good in that game too. It's a lightning fast game like that one they smashed and mid lane in particular. I think Vlad, he's had a couple of rough games, but he still has the pop off potential. We were talking before we went live about like who the best mid or rather more so like on the negative side, who the worst performing mid laners are and it's it. Vlad's name could be in there, but I don't think he's like bottom or not even bottom. 2. I would put cream and apa below vladdy. Even though stats wise he doesn't look incredible. Eye test wise I think he's been playing better than a lot of the stats suggest. So I think that my confidence in Casey was higher going into the group stage than it is now. But I still think that there's a chance they can dark horse their way to finals and maybe do some damage in the finals. But it's looking pretty hla Favorite no matter what. What. But that's my thoughts on Europe. Any. Any final thoughts on. On KC before we move on? [00:43:27] Speaker D: That's fair. Yeah. [00:43:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:34] Speaker D: I mean, I, I think Vlad, in a nutshell kind of exemplifies, like, how I feel like Casey's playing him for sand. Like, statistically they're not doing well, but the ey test is actually like half decent and gives you hope. Like, they, I think mechanically, actually, individually, you talked about how young the KC roster is, but to me, I don't see it as a detriment necessarily. Like, they don't. They don't look like they're afraid. It doesn't look like the inexperience is hamstring the decision making. I just feel like their hands are not quite able to match up to teams like Hanwha Life or Flying Oyster right now. And if anything, that's like, something that the players will have to work on. They're not necessarily the best individual mechanical players from their region, but what I really like about Casey is their mindset. They don't look afraid at any given point. Like, I've complained that TL looks really slow. They don't seem to know how to pick up the pace when they need to. Top Esports is playing without any sort of macro whatsoever. But Carmine Corp, like, even when they mess up a play, even when they lose a fight, it feels like they don't have any fear and they're willing to try it again. Like, they're just like, okay, we'll pick ourselves back up. We go again. Even if it didn't work the last time, we think we can fix it. We can go. I think that fearlessness, in a way, is what's giving them the wins that they're getting. And I really like that. Look, I want to see more of it. And to me, as long as they do that, they can still be a dark horse against any team except for Hanwha Life, maybe. [00:44:50] Speaker B: Yeah. I think Kalis has been really good. [00:44:54] Speaker A: Yeah. I have to agree. And to echo RMC's sentiment, I don't always like how aggressive they're playing in terms of, like, it seems like they're overconfident in what they can accomplish in a given moment, but at least they have an idea and they're trying to do something. It might be overconfident, it might be biting them in the ass sometimes, but you can see the vision and they just trust that they will win. And sometimes that's what it takes, you know, just believing that you can so that you actually try. Yeah. So that is. That's Casey's journey in a nutshell from this past weekend or past week. But now it's time to move on to the fourth team and fourth seed advancing into the knockout stage, which is surprise. Top Esports from the lpl. Maybe the shakiest that a representative from the LPL has looked at an international event in terms of like expectations versus reality. I'm seeing in a bit here, but Mizell, talk to me more about how they're doing. [00:45:57] Speaker B: I don't know. I mean the last time we also had this conversation about top Esports at Worlds two years ago. So like there's a. There's a constant issue and I'd like to raise Razzle Plasm's tweet that he put out. The official ruling has been levied against Top Esports. They will be banned from all international competition for the next five years because they can't get their shit together. It's being put forward by the community and hope Top Esports will heed the call. Dob, I think this team has looked so out of sorts. I wish anyone's legend were here very badly. Top Esports just they, they showed so much great strength in terms of being able to clutch out team fights and good macro decision making post mid game in the LPL and we're just not seeing any of that. And honestly, some of these players are making some decisions that I don't think I would have ever seen them make. Especially like Kanavi and Crisp. I think Crisp has had some inting sprees in the past year or two, but some of those plays are just non like there's literally no brain behind them. And Kanavi is overextending as a guy who is literally one of the pillar junglers of the LPL and one of the best and most consistent junglers we've seen in the last seven years. The fact that we're seeing this from him right now is just mind blowing. And so this whole team is just like breaking down. And I think the problem is with LPL teams a lot of times, especially this team, and it's been said in multiple interviews they're very emotional and especially Cream, especially Chris, especially Jackie Love. I mean look at the interview last night after Jackie Love and he like barely could even speak and he was barely responding to questions half the time, just staring off into space. I think the loss against Casey just literally broke their brains. And I think especially if that for that first loss, I think they just didn't understand what was going on. They all had different ideas. And the problem is with these kinds of teams is they are smart and they. I mean you have a world championship on the team, right? You have players who have been throughout the LPL who've been in internationals multiple times. They will have different ideas of how to approach extreme issues. Right. And I think they just have different approaches right now because it just seems like everybody has different ideas. And I think it is probably one of the biggest, biggest breakdowns of a top team we've seen in recent history. But, but honestly, at this point it's par for the course for top esports. So I really hope we can see the, the, the top esports that we saw in the LPL. The one that was running a 31 gauntlet through some of the most dominant teams in the LPL and finding those really, really, really clutch late game team fights and macro decisions. But we just haven't seen them yet, unfortunately. [00:48:41] Speaker A: I think HLE is also having a lot of sports. [00:48:44] Speaker D: Was the only team that got the memo from riot therefore funding us. [00:48:48] Speaker B: I guess so. Yeah. [00:48:50] Speaker C: I, you. [00:48:53] Speaker A: You, you, you just saying. [00:48:56] Speaker C: That top esports is playing without macro. It does look like they're either playing without some point. It looks like there's like. [00:49:02] Speaker A: Or just no thought and communication what the opponent's doing. Like when you watch the decisions that they're making, it really does feel like nobody's communicating where the enemy jungler could be. Specifically the bot lane. Like they are just scrapping and getting dove and getting ganked like on repeat and it's just falling apart kind of at the seams for them. So I don't know what the, the solution is or if there is a solution this late into an international tournament because they have an elimination best of five ahead of them now against the number one seed hle. This is like the worst case scenario for top esports. So mazel. Do you have any copium? Is there any chance any like bright spots you can think? Perfect. Love it. All right, well, maybe Casey. [00:49:59] Speaker B: I can't wait for split two of the lpl. [00:50:02] Speaker C: Yeah, somebody, somebody. [00:50:04] Speaker B: No, I mean this team, this, this team is just completely shot the bed. [00:50:07] Speaker C: So I'm bringing that guy's roommate tomorrow. Gosh. [00:50:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's so difficult to have anything good to say because when you have this kind of situation, it's just like what the hell is going on? You have an extremely experienced coach in om and in homie and I think the, the problem is like what I view it as is everybody has A fight or flight instinct. Right when things are going bad, like, you're either gonna, like, duck down and look for cover, you're gonna go fighting, whatever. I think everybody on this team just has a different fight or flight response, and that's what we're seeing right now. There's such little turnaround. You're literally playing every day. You had one break after you were getting destroyed or like in between that, that game of mental break and going to the next one. And I think it's just a situation where nobody has a good calm response. [00:50:59] Speaker A: Hopefully they're able to figure it out. [00:51:00] Speaker B: Everybody's just trying to figure out what solution works, what band Aid is going to make this. [00:51:05] Speaker A: I just want to see some good League of Legends LPL vs LCK historically has been a banger, especially at these events with only one team represented, mostly like the old msis when it was only one team from each region. So let's see if top esports can at least give us some signs of life. A team that will not have a chance to give signs of life, unfortunately, moving forward is the representative from the lta, and that is Team Liquid. They are fifth dead last out of all the teams. And now it's time to talk about them. I almost want to structure this as like a therapy session. Like, how's everyone feeling? You know, how did Team Liquid make you feel? Badger, let's start with you. Oh, I blacked out on the other three also. Don't worry. [00:52:01] Speaker C: There's more. There was more Team Liquid games than James. Just them beating Carmine Core at the start of the tournament. What? I, I, I blacked out on the other ones. I, I, I thought it was just rolling in on the high of the nab. [00:52:15] Speaker A: I think that was a dream, actually. That might have been. [00:52:17] Speaker B: But then I, like, woke up randomly for this, like, one game against this, like, top tier opponent. And that's just like, I, I don't remember anything else. [00:52:24] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, they, that had. [00:52:25] Speaker D: To be a fever dream. I could have sworn played against this. [00:52:28] Speaker C: Team that was playing quick and yeah, Zyra. And then they won that game too. Like, that was just really weird how that came out. Like, I didn't expect a random game until, you know, no, no. [00:52:38] Speaker A: This is how we flip the narrative. This is what the name of the. [00:52:41] Speaker C: Episode is going on. [00:52:46] Speaker A: Team that we did not want to accept the free win that HLE was trying to give us with their drafts. And we were like, nah, dog, that's not, that's not ethical. We gotta, we gotta find a Way to throw this series regardless, because, God, that game one should have been a win, man. It's painful. Okay. Yep. Brazil, how are you feeling? [00:53:15] Speaker C: They should have gotten two owed by Hanover. That's beside the point. [00:53:19] Speaker B: Oh, can I share my feelings? [00:53:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:25] Speaker B: Leave umpteen Korea and sign Yuji. God damn. Like that guy, man. I'm sorry. I love you up as a person, but God damn you inting son of a man. Like, God, dude, that he just does. [00:53:41] Speaker A: Not have a concept of where his. [00:53:44] Speaker B: I cannot, bro. [00:53:46] Speaker A: That's something that I started to track with him. Anytime I watch him, I'm like, what is he trying to accomplish and who is close enough to help him? Him. And the answer is almost always he thinks that everybody is playing his champion and can do exactly what he's trying to do. Like, he's VTing two screens away from his carries and I'm like, nobody's going to back you up, dude. Like, you can't do that. H. It's. Yeah, it's tough. [00:54:23] Speaker B: Just sign Yuji, please. Like. Yeah, I'm not saying he fixes that. [00:54:28] Speaker A: Instantly, but if you put I gotta ask. They will do better, you feel at this event. [00:54:34] Speaker D: And I think he'd do better. [00:54:41] Speaker A: True. [00:54:44] Speaker D: I was really frustrated at the way they ended up getting fifth like that. It's a tiebreaker technicality rather than like a straight game. And look, I'm not saying like, Riot's wrong for that. Like, you got to set some tiebreaker rules. It's just really frustrating that that's the. [00:54:58] Speaker A: Way I think it's immensely frustrating to see. It's like the first. Pretty much every game have a game plan and then the moment things get funky, they just completely lose their minds and have no idea how to play the game anymore. I think this was. Was specifically one of CoreJJ's weakest international showings. Representing NA now the Americas. He just like, man, some of his engages were also really, I guess over opportunistic is the positive way to put it. And they. You could see it in their top esports game two that like kind of throttled. But they're at least finding a couple of engages, a couple of like, moments. But then they just don't have the team fight coordination after that one initial moment to like keep fighting and stay in in the fight. Jan's still looking good. APA had a couple of good games, a couple of really rough games, but I think, yeah, umpty core and even Impact had kind of tough showings more consistently. Impact usually is the rock, but I Didn't see like Rock Impact this. This international event. [00:56:20] Speaker D: Yeah, we saw the Rock dragging them down a little bit and sinking. But that said, actually, there's been a lot of talk. Okay. I don't know how many of you on Reddit, but there's a lot of like trash talking Impact on Reddit right now and I don't think that's fair. I will agree Impact did not perform up to the standard we'd expect of him, but I don't think he's anywhere close to empty levels. [00:56:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:56:42] Speaker B: I think the. Honestly, if I'm going to be real, I think the closest to Humpty level in that particular series was actually Cor. I think Core JJ had a really, really terrible series. I think there were some really good moments. You're like, oh my God, he's the genius again. But like, overall, I don't. I do not think we saw the core. [00:57:02] Speaker A: Going for playing incredibly well. It's just surprising that the. The consistent performers on Team Liquid like Jan this. Yeah, right. Like that's insane. Not impacting Core. Yeah, yeah. [00:57:20] Speaker B: We're yachted. Ap. Like how crazy, right? Wild. Tell me that a year ago. I'm calling you Cap. [00:57:26] Speaker D: Tell me that Team Liquid doesn't have Americans in it. It like the two best performance are the actual Americans on that roster. [00:57:33] Speaker B: Dude, I'm just saying. I like I'm gonna make a post about it at the end of first stand, but I'm just saying he umpty's an import slot. [00:57:42] Speaker A: He does. [00:57:42] Speaker B: I don't know what the UG is, but he might be an import slot. You got a free ticket there. Team Liquid just pull the trigger. God damn it. [00:57:49] Speaker C: I thought. [00:57:49] Speaker A: Yeah, so. So for anybody who maybe doesn't know. [00:57:52] Speaker B: Who you know, that's what I'm saying. I don't care. It won't matter because the in person is available in updates. So even if he is, even if. [00:57:59] Speaker A: He'S not the LPL super server on the Korean server and on EU west, he hit Challenger in all three servers playing from Mongolia and then moved to na. Easily hit Challenger here and then started playing collegiate before getting picked up. He played still collegiate for Maryville, but then also like Fly Quest, he was on there. So he's been around the Tier 2 scene for a while and he's like a really, really hyped prospect in the jungle. But he, despite being in NA for quite a while, he was told at one point that he did not take up an import slot. But then it turns out he does take up an import slot. So that's why he wasn't able to find a team. Many people were interested. [00:58:43] Speaker B: Yeah. But again. No, but again, I think two episodes ago or maybe an episode ago, I shared the information because it has come out with screenshots that on two different documents that Riot has comparing or like talking about citizenship or whatever availability for players. On one document, Yuji is said as having residency in North America. On the other document, which is the like what they use on the other document. [00:59:10] Speaker A: I mean, wouldn't have that. It says that he's being honest. [00:59:12] Speaker B: Would be an import. [00:59:13] Speaker A: But yeah, so that's literally right. We've all shared our feelings, we shared some of our thoughts, but they will not be continuing along with us. [00:59:21] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:59:22] Speaker A: The first stand tournament. So we have. Oh yeah. Okay. No, go for it. Oh, good point. [00:59:30] Speaker B: I'm so sad. [00:59:31] Speaker A: Yes. So that happened like in the series. Second series, right. Or was it in the last throw that in the second? [00:59:38] Speaker D: The fact that Spawn had to leave early. Like. [00:59:43] Speaker A: Yeah, so. [00:59:48] Speaker C: The second to last one. [00:59:49] Speaker A: And he hasn't shared specifics online, but we know that it was a personal match. [00:59:53] Speaker D: I think he was on stage for game one drop. [00:59:55] Speaker A: You can go check it out. [00:59:57] Speaker C: Oh, that's right. [00:59:58] Speaker A: Just reiterating that his like priorities. Yeah, he's like family's top priority and then coaching will take up everything else that I have. But family's still top priority. [01:00:08] Speaker B: So he said it was already pre planned. [01:00:12] Speaker A: Something came up that he. He couldn't be there for a first stand at the very end there. But yeah, I mean we. We saw the buff they got with Spawn being there for lta finals and then they don't have that buff going into two of the most important series or at least to finish out one of them. And then going into the last series of the tournament and I, I don't want to dog anybody, but you can team. Look who did put out like a post series coach like speech afterwards. It's. It's spooks, right? Spooks is the. [01:00:45] Speaker B: Or. [01:00:46] Speaker A: No, that's. That's the wrong one. Swiffer. There we go. Wrong. Aussie Swiffer as. As coach. And I. I don't know if anybody else saw that, but it's not the same speech. [01:00:57] Speaker D: Swiffer. [01:00:58] Speaker A: You know, like, it's not the same coaching style. It's not the same leadership style. And it's. It's like yeah, man, that room was just so deflated. And I, I really hope that they can bounce back for an X split. But yeah, that's a good thing that we did. We didn't talk about, like, yeah, Spawn was a big part of the team's success. [01:01:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:01:28] Speaker D: And it's crazy when you think about it because a lot of people think, like, oh, coaches just do like, the. The prep work, you know, the drafting and whatnot. But I think this is a case in point that coaches are so much more than that. Right. [01:01:37] Speaker B: Like, I think Spawn is so much more than that. Specifically. I don't think Spawn's like any other coach that we've seen in League of Legends. I think he's the most close to a traditional style coach, like a traditional sports style coach that we've seen in esports. And I think he just has such a different way of approaching teams. And like, you talk to any player, you talk to any team that he's been a part of, they realize it too. And I think it's just a really unique thing that he can only do. [01:02:00] Speaker D: That's fair. [01:02:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:01] Speaker D: Because I. I almost feel bad for Swiffer. I know so far got a lot of flack for it, but some, like, Swiffer did his prep with Spawn. You know, like, prior to going on stage, just Spawn physically wasn't there. [01:02:10] Speaker B: Mentally. [01:02:10] Speaker D: He was still with the team and everything. And, yeah, you could see a marked drop off, like when he left, like, with how they were playing on the Rift, which. It's. It's weird to me. It's odd to me, but also feels like the discipline. [01:02:23] Speaker B: It's the discipline. I think it's. [01:02:25] Speaker A: It's tough. It's tough to. [01:02:26] Speaker D: But they. I feel like team Di needs to find a way then to. To have that Spawn impact without Spawn being physically there. [01:02:32] Speaker A: Hopefully they can find a solution to that. But I, I. In the room. [01:02:45] Speaker B: Yeah, because he talked, like, even when he went to. To the LTA finals or whatever in the playoffs, he was like, they needed. They. [01:02:53] Speaker A: They need somebody. [01:02:54] Speaker B: A bad guy. [01:02:55] Speaker C: Right. [01:02:55] Speaker B: Like, they need somebody for everybody to dislike a little bit or to, like, feel like they're all up again so they can feel that teamwork. And I think without him. [01:03:02] Speaker A: That's the new esports montage. But that is their journey this past week and our thoughts on it. But because they will not continue forward in first stand, Badger, I'd like you to bring back something that we haven't done yet this year, but we should be doing. Would you like to eulogize team Liquid as they will be bidding farewell to this tournament? [01:03:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Dearly beloved, we gather here today to mourn the loss of not One, but two continents from. From this beloved international tournament. Unfortunately, the. The Americas will just not be the same after this. Coming into the future tournaments with such a poor showing from. From the winner. You know, they always say that Team Liquid is fourth for the memes, but they are number one in our heart of disappointment and letting us down at this point. Team Liquid wins worlds at the same time. You just have to remember, winner doesn't matter. Winner doesn't matter. [01:04:28] Speaker A: This is all irrelevant. [01:04:29] Speaker C: They're gonna come back. Maybe. I don't know. You know, Team Liquid wins Worlds, obviously. You know, they. They say that every captain goes down with a ship. Let's just hope that. That, you know, Umpty's not here after this. But not dead. Not dead. Not dead. Not dead. Let me throw the caveat out there, universe. [01:04:51] Speaker A: There's definitely decisions. Yeah. [01:04:52] Speaker C: No you no real. [01:04:54] Speaker B: Geez. [01:04:54] Speaker C: Just please. [01:04:56] Speaker B: Liquid. [01:04:56] Speaker C: Just please just look at your jungle position. [01:04:59] Speaker B: True. [01:05:00] Speaker A: Only a one way ticket. That's so much cheaper. [01:05:03] Speaker C: Yeah, there's definitely decisions. [01:05:06] Speaker B: And you get to get off by leaving him in Korea. Like, you don't even have to pay for the flight. [01:05:11] Speaker D: You don't even have to buy him an air ticket home. [01:05:13] Speaker A: It's fine. [01:05:14] Speaker C: You don't have to pay the tariffs for the flight back. [01:05:16] Speaker B: Just ts. Don't get to. Don't get to go home to China. Umpty doesn't get to go home to America. It's fine. Dude, Raz's tweet last night. [01:05:27] Speaker A: All right, well, that's it. [01:05:27] Speaker B: He has to get in the door to China. The guy like, can't get in the door. [01:05:37] Speaker A: Well, I. I love that you committed that. You just kept. I was like, is he gonna. Is he gonna stop? And then you kept going. I was like, oh, my God, he's so good. He's beautiful. Okay, now we have. So we're recording this episode and games are happening tonight. So hopefully Ian's told me that he should be able to get the episode out. So you might be hearing this right before game start. You might be hearing this after the. [01:06:01] Speaker B: The. [01:06:01] Speaker A: The semifinals have already started. Hopefully you're hearing it before. But we're trying our best to get the episode out as fast as possible. So let's talk about our predictions for semis and finals. Up first, it is KC versus CFO. That is the Flying Oysters versus Kaiba Core. I, along with Bickle, still believe in EU, baby. We have KC, but we both believe it's going to be a five game series. Badger, Mazel, and RMC are all believing in CFO with a 3:1 series. You all agree on the 3:1, so I'll defend first and I'll have one of you go for CFO. I think that CFO probably should be favored here. But just the fact that Casey was able to look so good in their win versus HLE and they've been scaling through the tournament, I think that this could be their peak moment where they actually finally overcome cfo. I say finally. They've only matched up against them once but where they get revenge against CFO and prove that they are actually getting comfortable on this stage in this international setting. But I still think it's gonna be close. That's why I have a 32 RMC. Why do you think CFO still takes a 3 1? [01:07:16] Speaker D: Well, I think they're not facing HLE. TES has been knocked out. So CFO is money in the bank. They are flying high and the world is through oyster right now. Yeah, it's on KC to beat them. So yeah, I'm going 3:1 with CFO. I think they'll still drop a game because Casey, like we said, can be a dark horse. [01:07:32] Speaker A: Well, that's just. Overall did the most solid second series is HLE versus Top. Wouldn't you know it and how they. [01:07:37] Speaker D: Want to play them. [01:07:39] Speaker A: It's HLE across the board. I think TOP are good for a game. Mezelle agrees with me there. Badger, you actually have a five game series here so I'm just going to throw it over to you. Why do you think it's going to be a five game banger? God damn it. Oh well, that's what RMC put. So let's see if his if RMC curses or if Badger blesses. [01:08:03] Speaker C: Because if I say this then it becomes a 30 and. [01:08:09] Speaker A: Flying oyster. [01:08:11] Speaker C: Top Esports is always out there. [01:08:13] Speaker B: God, I just. Please. Just for what? I don't even care if they lose. I don't even give a Flying oyster if they lose but just show up. [01:08:23] Speaker A: It looks like going into the finals across the board is expected to be. [01:08:28] Speaker D: This is how you can tell Mizzell. [01:08:29] Speaker A: Has not been broken by any just yet. He's still. He still has all in agreement for the finals. Oh yeah. But it looks like going into the finals across the board it's expected to be HLE versus CFO for the finals. Maybe Casey. Yep. [01:08:45] Speaker B: Real quick. Yep. I also hate that it. I'm sorry. Narrative wise, both are cool. [01:08:51] Speaker A: That's why I don't hate it necessarily. [01:08:54] Speaker B: Like there's no other options for so Long one of these teams is going to be in the finals. [01:09:00] Speaker A: And then for Casey it's like, you know, they had such a crazy like last year 10th place and now this year like making finals at international. Yes. It's a for fun one, but I think it's cool. But yeah. Rmc, you had a thought? Yeah, yeah. True, true. [01:09:21] Speaker D: I don't think anybody is against CFO or Casey making it. I think it just really hurts Miselle that both the teams he supports TL. [01:09:27] Speaker A: And I think it's not gonna matter because we all have HLE taking the finals. It's three O's across the board except for Badger who actually thinks hl. [01:09:34] Speaker D: Why can't they? [01:09:35] Speaker A: Because whatever happen versus them, love it. Oh, he's like, oh, what did I do? [01:09:54] Speaker C: Wait, what? Oh, yeah. No, yeah. I. I'm like, wait, did I say three? No. Yeah. So I. I'm expecting. I'm expecting. I forgot I said this cuz because when I made. When I wrote this in about an hour and a half ago, I was thinking what is the most draft that Hanma life could just be like yeah. [01:10:14] Speaker A: We played this in an international singed top. [01:10:16] Speaker C: So let's do it. [01:10:18] Speaker A: They're gonna quick jungle. Yeah. [01:10:21] Speaker C: Timo, they're gonna play like Teemo Cassiopeia Bot Lane or something like that. And just literal times they're just gonna play a straight poison comp like. Like literally the actual most toxic that we could possibly see on a professional stage. Like literal toxic. [01:10:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:44] Speaker D: Oh, I'd like them to drop the toxic comp and then like the Casio the singed and then just run a VI jungle for the most toxic jungler. We've seen this tournament just in memory of them. [01:10:58] Speaker A: Could you imagine? Yeah, that's the game they win. They lose a different game. But that's our expectations for the playoffs. I will remind you I. I got two predictions right. I'm a 20% prediction rate for group stage. Our best is Mezelle and Bickle at 50% so we weren't hitting that hard. But shout out to Mizell for just being the prediction king. I guess you also won lec and I think yay as well. Like your predictions have just been solid so far the split. So listen to Mizell, don't listen to the rest of us. Hey, let my goat, my goat the big brain. But that's all of our thoughts for first stand. Reviewing the first week group stage, I. [01:11:41] Speaker B: Also won the LPL predictions. [01:11:44] Speaker A: We do have a fun game that came up with but because the episode's already going a little long. We're gonna save that for next week. But you can keep in mind that we're gonna play a game where we draft rosters. We only get one player from each team, and we have to make the best roster that we can from all the representatives of first stand. So if you want to join us in doing that, do it. And let us know in the community discord what yours are. You'll hear from us next week on what those ones are. But for now, thank you, everybody, for tuning in. This has been a fantastic week of international play, and we have more to go. If you can drop a review, which Mazel. What number should they give us on said review? I think five. Oh, wait, no, there's only four now. [01:12:36] Speaker B: Remember from last week? So there. There are how many teams at First Stand? I. I think there's five. [01:12:44] Speaker D: There's four. [01:12:45] Speaker B: I think you should put five. [01:12:46] Speaker A: Like, went out of five. [01:12:48] Speaker B: Oh, no. Bad. [01:12:53] Speaker D: We should support na. We should. We should give it a team. [01:12:55] Speaker C: Liquid. [01:12:57] Speaker B: Damn right. [01:12:57] Speaker A: Thank you for Everybody. [01:13:00] Speaker B: It's a five. It's a five. It'S a five. It's five. It's five. Episode. [01:13:04] Speaker A: It was a lot of fun. I don't have the soundboard with me in person, so you're not gonna get the normal outro. [01:13:10] Speaker B: Our ratings are gonna tank, I guess. [01:13:12] Speaker D: Okay. [01:13:12] Speaker A: We'll just have to. I'll try and recreate it at the very end here. But if you can take away one thing from this episode, it is that we love. [01:13:20] Speaker B: Oh, no. We have to. We just had to recreate it then. Oh, yes, your thing. You have to do the voice. [01:13:28] Speaker C: I'll. [01:13:29] Speaker B: I'll do the whip. [01:13:30] Speaker A: That was so good. [01:13:31] Speaker B: Oh, no. Bye. Bye. [01:13:41] Speaker A: Sa.