League Rundown - Episode 615: 2824 days...

[00:00:13] Speaker A: Gets a little too far here, he's gonna have to try and get himself out. Let me go. [00:00:16] Speaker B: Tillery and the rest of the shots of fire. [00:00:17] Speaker A: Zion is just killing the next Zion can eat it single handedly win the game by game by game by game by should be. Oh my God. [00:00:28] Speaker B: Stupid passes through and manages to the table with Messiah tanking it up. [00:00:34] Speaker A: I do not believe he just believe. I cannot understand this game. Unicorns of love. It wasn't a mutant. The Nexus. [00:01:07] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to episode 615 of the League Rundown. This is your MSI review episode and it is lovingly entitled 2824days. I'm your host Kangas and I'm joined by one esteemed co host and that is Yanni back in the pod. How's it going Yanni? [00:01:25] Speaker A: It's going pretty well. You're joined by the one guy who hasn't been around for the last couple of weeks. [00:01:29] Speaker B: Hey. [00:01:29] Speaker A: So unlucky the way things are falling. [00:01:31] Speaker B: You showed up when it mattered. [00:01:32] Speaker A: You showed up when it mattered and [00:01:33] Speaker B: that's all that matters to me. Also, you might notice that my audio setup is a little different than normal. I'm currently on vacation. I had a Yu Gi OH tournament last weekend and I'm back home in Minnesota at my family setup. So I'm using a blue Yeti microphone with a laptop and honestly it's a pretty good setup. It could be far worse while I'm on the road as the audience has definitely listened to Far worse. Sorry, what did you ask me though during my spiel? [00:02:01] Speaker A: How did the Yu Gi oh tournament go? [00:02:03] Speaker B: Oh, it was very fun. It was a great time. Got to do some fun interviews I think. Did you even send me a clip? Have you seen the one of me interviewing the the finalist, the winner? [00:02:15] Speaker A: I think I've seen it, but I'm not 100% sure. [00:02:18] Speaker B: I've had riftbounders, I've had magic people. A lot of folks have seen that. It was a fantastic answer from Ryan. You the winner of the North American World qualifier. So he's going to Worlds and he won the whole thing undefeated. Did not drop a series the entire time. He had a banger line where I asked him in the top eight. It was as a card game player you'll probably understand like the. The importance of this. In the top eight there were seven of the same deck and then him on an individual deck that was under like. Like completely expected to underperform. Yeah, nobody believed in this deck and he won the whole thing with it. And he. When I asked him, I was like, all right, seven cool tune. One sky striker. Talk to me about, like, how your deck performed this weekend. And he asked me, he looked me in the eyes and he said, can I say whatever I want? And I was like, yeah, of course, dude. And he goes, it's not the deck, it's me. And the entire crowd just kind of went crazy. They all started cheering and going, whoa. And then like, I reacted like, whoa. That's a cool thing to say. So a lot of card game community picked it up and have been spreading that around. So shout out to Ryan Yu for winning. Yu Gi oh. North American World Championship qualifiers. He's going to be at Worlds. I will not be at Worlds, Japan. I did not get the invite this year, but it's all right. I'll be cheering on the North American folks representing our region. We are. For all the North American fans listening to this podcast, used to League of Legends disappointing at the international stage. Just take note that we are three time world champions in Yu Gi oh. We are the reigning champions three years in a row. [00:03:54] Speaker A: So pretty good. [00:03:55] Speaker B: That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Yanni, how was your weekend? [00:04:00] Speaker A: You know what? It was not too bad. Basically just been doing a lot of riftbound related content and stuff like that since I'm. We're just waiting for split 3 the LPL to start at this point. I'm getting excited to see all these roster changes and stuff, but while I have a little bit of downtime, I'm like, well, this entire time that MSI has been going on, I haven't had to cast anything, so I may as well do something else, right? [00:04:23] Speaker B: True, true. And hey, hopping on a podcast is a great thing to do in your free time. We'll talk about the LPL and the updates there. But first, let's go around the horn and talk about the news happening in League of Legends for lcs. And lec. Up first, a lot of roster moves have been happening this past week. Specifically today, the day of recording it is Tuesday the 15th. Or is it a Wednesday? Wait, is it a Wednesday, my dude? I think it's a Wednesday. [00:04:53] Speaker A: Is a Wednesday, my dude, it is a Wednesday. [00:04:55] Speaker B: Wednesday the 15th. There we go. Shows how well my vacation's going. But on this Wednesday, we had a lot of news drop. Yanni, did you hear about the Dignitas roster news? [00:05:05] Speaker A: I did, and I'm so happy for this man. Denethor is now going to be the new top laner for Dignitas, formerly of Winthrop University. I remember when this guy played his first competitive game. I casted his very first competitive game in open qualifiers. He was on team Tempest with mobility, actually. And I remember it's like, oh, man, this guy's just like a Camille. One trick and I saw him off Camille and I was like, okay, this guy has a little bit of sauce. And I was always thought to myself, I'm like, maybe, you know, this guy seems like one of the guys who could actually, you know, do something right. And he has learned champions over the years through sea level play with Winthrop and then obviously in the NACL and has really become like a dominant top laner. And I'm just like so excited for this guy. Really, really nice guy and a very supportive family as well. His dad's always in twitch chat, so his dad will be swimming in a sea of LCS Twitch chat real soon. [00:06:03] Speaker B: Everybody in LCS Twitch chat get ready to see the name Pill scar P I L S K A R. That is Denor's dad. He is one of the most supportive parents I've ever seen in esports behind Apa's parents. Apa's parents are fantastic. But Dennis dad is awesome. He's always. Whenever I stream, he's in my twitch chat just even just saying hi. And if I'm just like playing yu gi oh, he'll be like, all right, just saying hi, like dipping out now. But if I'm like doing a co stream or anything, he'll. He'll always stick around and be very chatty. But he is super supportive and for good reason. Denethor is a really promising talent. I've had my eyes on Den Thor since the 2020. I believe it was 2023 running the rift combine. It might have been 2024. [00:06:48] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:06:49] Speaker B: It was a few years back I got to co stream this. It was one of, if not the biggest ever scouting combine in league of legends esports. I remember there being a discord that I was a part of that had eight lobbies of games of challenger plus [00:07:05] Speaker A: players balance, balance run some lobbies in addition to casting. [00:07:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what. But tough to balance. But it was just incredible that that many players wanted to compete and get scouted and picked up. We had representatives from like Cloud9, representatives from Team Liquid, like scouts and coaches in these discord calls with the players in the combine. It was a really, really cool community initiative. We haven't had it for a while. I hope it comes back at some point. But Denethor was a name that I noticed first through that combine when I was co streaming it, he immediately stood out to me. Like you said, for his Camille gameplay, he was a bit of a one trick but his Jax was also very good. He was known for more of like carry bruiser, top laners and I think that he's going to be very exciting to watch in the lcs. The only concern I have, maybe we get a bit of an aisle situation where it's like, yeah, he was able to compete and do really well at the Tier 2 level, but can he actually transition to Tier 1? Because now he's up against, you know, previous world champions like Impact, who even in their twilight years are crushing these rookies coming in, as well as players like Dokla who have like gone through the ringer multiple times to earn their spot. You know, like the competition, it's just [00:08:23] Speaker A: domestic Dokla though, domestic international Dokler now it's like the, it's like the, the Shiba Inu meme where he's just like the really small dog and then the really muscular one once he goes to internationals. [00:08:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Dokla in North America is the Sheba with the, the baseball bat. Just saying stick away from him and maybe Denis or can do well. But I feel like den he has the potential. But as always with a rookie, it's up to him to prove it, prove what he's got. And on a roster like Dignitas, I think that this could be good. The problem is the opposite side of this coin is that means that Photon is out. I got a chance to, you know, fortunately or unfortunately, I casted the vast majority of Dignitas games this year. And in the vast majority of those games I casted, Photon was like the only player that had a lead in laning phase. He was kind of the one keeping them in the game. And while FBIS is the primary carry for this roster, I do worry that if they have a rookie coming into the top lane, they will no longer have a stable lane to get them from early game to mid game. So I'm excited, but I don't think this fixes the problem of Dignitas. I want you to hear your thoughts, Ojani. Like, what do you think this does to Dignitas identity as a roster bringing in a rookie top laner? [00:09:49] Speaker A: I think that the identity of the roster themselves were just looking for like, hey, we're going to try to build something for 2027, right? I don't think that this is a roster that's going to, you know, make its internationals or anything like that. So I think you're now starting to look beyond the scope of 2026 and start to look into 2027 and say, okay, we want to make a roster change. We're gonna go pick up a top laner that's like n a native blood, right? That is somebody who hasn't gotten a chance before and that's its own little shake up, right? Because now I'm going to be looking at Dignitas games a little bit more intently. I am, you know, would am definitely willing to say I am more of a fan of Dignitas after this move just because Dennis Thor has been a player that I followed for a long time and you know, is a guy that I've, I've, you know, he's been very friendly with and had the opportunity to interview him a couple times and that makes me happy. I'm like this makes me super happy. This guy's getting his chance. I'm cheering on Dignitas and for the first time in a while I say I'm cheering on Dignitas and that those [00:10:52] Speaker B: are words I've not heard in quite [00:10:55] Speaker A: a while teams but like individually like I'm like, you know, in a game where I don't really have any specific allegiances, I'm like come on, get the job done, carry them home den of [00:11:07] Speaker B: or I think that's a really good point because that's something that sometimes gets lost in the mix of these conversations is like oh, try and win, win, win, win. That's like what most teams are trying to do. But I think it, yeah, you're right on the money. If you're a team like Dignitas and you were the last place team, last split and you're not expecting to do better this split, why not invest in the future and play for like a 20, 27 Long Kong kind of like bring, bring a rookie in, try and build a roster around him, try and get him up to speed because yeah, realistically keeping photons not going to get them to Worlds, it's not even probably going to get them to playoffs in North America. So yeah, that's a good point. I'm happy you brought that up. And it also does in, in the way like that we've always been asking for, for years is for these bottom of the barrel teams. Why are you importing Korean players? Why are you, it's not going to get you across a finish line. At least bring on these, you know, rookie North American players to get a local fan base behind you as opposed to trying to like win in the short term and like not even build a brand at all. So. [00:12:14] Speaker A: And I think that was what a lot of the. [00:12:15] Speaker B: You're convinced because they had. [00:12:17] Speaker A: Because they had changes too at the beginning of the year. Right. And everybody kind of thought that these changes were going to result in something like this. I think it's a little bit later than a lot of people would have liked. But when you are playing in a three split system, I do think it's worthwhile to really try to put something together and give it at least two splits before you're doing something else. So if some people are thinking like, oh, this is really late, why didn't they do this at the start? Or you never know what's going to happen with a roster. Like, we've seen rosters like nrg, you know, when they went to Worlds and had that run, like, they weren't really particularly great. They just went on a really great run. So you never know when you can catch lightning in a bottle. [00:12:55] Speaker B: Oh, invoking the energy world's run is, is always a, a bait right here for the North American centric rosters. I think that in my opinion that was a flash in the pan, but [00:13:07] Speaker A: I, I suppose it was awesome. Yeah. And like, that's not what I'm saying is happening here. This is why I'm saying that, like, they may not have made this change beforehand because they're trying to see if they can recreate that and they're giving it two splits to do so. [00:13:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, they have a Runway. [00:13:24] Speaker A: This change is now like. Yeah, this change is now like, hey, we're looking for the future. [00:13:28] Speaker B: And, and we know, like, I don't think it's any secret that Dignitas is like the budget team in the lcs. Like, they are paying minimum salary to every player on their roster. And for a player like Denethor, that's awesome because he's a tier two player. He's coming from collegiate. He, he's. I. Has he graduated? I don't know if he's graduated with a degree yet. Do you know? [00:13:50] Speaker A: I think he still has. I think he still had one more year. [00:13:55] Speaker B: Okay, that would sound right in my head that he, he didn't fully finish the degree. So even if this doesn't work out, he's got a backup plan. He could just go back to school, finish his degree one more year. So for a player like him, it's a really cool opportunity because, yeah, you're only making 65k, which is League minimum, but you get to do the job that you've been grinding towards because a player like Dennis or I, I've gotten to chat with him and interview him on my stream before and he really wants it. Like you can tell when you talk to Den Thor he's hungry. So I think it's cool that he at least gets the opportunity. Again, it's on the player. He's got to prove himself. He's got to show that he's got what it takes. Players like Serdy have really struggled to show that they deserve to stay. I. I feel like they've certain he's convinced me that he deserves to stay but for some reason coaches and GMs have not conv. [00:14:44] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:14:45] Speaker B: Yeah. So I feel like Dennis Thor is kind of following a similar line of serde just without the same like solo queue accolades that Serdy had which was like his big hot stuff coming in. So keep your eyes on Denor. I think he's gonna be really cool to watch. He's a carry centric top laner on a bottom of the barrel team. Hopefully he gets some highlight plays and, and can you know, grow and add some, some spice to the league. Other news around the horn when it comes to roster stuff, there's one in na, one in EU in terms of kind. So let's start in NA since we. Or continue in NA rather since we started here. Shopify Rebellion. Bring on a new general manager, David Hahn, formerly of C9. He just got let go by C9 like two weeks ago or something. It was fairly recently, it was during MSI and he's already moved on to the next chapter which is Shopify Rebellion. I don't have a lot to say about this. I don't know David Hahn very personally. Yanni, do you have any thoughts on this or is this just kind of like a let's wait and see what he does on Shopify? [00:15:46] Speaker A: I think it's like a let's wait and see. You know, if I said anything I'd be like talking out my ass. Right? I don't. [00:15:52] Speaker B: That is completely fair. [00:15:53] Speaker A: Too much and and to be honest, like you'll call it what it is general manager spots in league typically you don't really get to see the impact of them. It's very rare that you get to go like wow, this general manager like actually did something. So there's just like a lot of behind the scenes stuff that would be, you know, I'm sure he's going to be taking control of it in charge of that. We're not really going to know. [00:16:16] Speaker B: The one thing I am somewhat surprised is because what we have this coming weekend. Let me, let me pull up a calendar here. So we have this coming weekend is 18th and 19th. LCS starts the weekend after. So that means that if other changes are happening in Shopify, we're going to get that news very soon. The big change that we were waiting to see was is head coach Res Van being dropped. He talked about it publicly in interviews that like, yeah, if we don't do well, I don't know if I have a job next split. They didn't do that well. They snuck into playoffs and then bombed. And I feel like Damonte is the type of player where, or sorry, the type of coach where he's like a player centric coach, really good as an assistant coach. Do they bring in a different head coach? If that does happen, if this new GM is going to be kind of the first domino to fall, I think we'll get new information very soon that we won't be able to talk about on this episode, but by next week's episode we'll probably have an update for otherwise, I don't think another change is happening. They're probably running it back. Same roster, same coaching staff, but a new general manager is interesting because that means that he can start to build towards something in the future because that means that 2027 will now be the goal of David Hahn. A new vision for Shopify, which is one of the few teams in the league which still has fresh funding coming in by a parent org that doesn't mind burning cash. Not a lot of teams have that, that same kind of across the world anymore. Really? Yeah, yeah, really. Like China, Korea. No, no one's burning cash these days. Shopify is really the last team that has like a big brand sponsor, parent company that's willing to spend money and it's just so sad that they bombed out. They did not do well this past year despite having the budget to try and put together a roster. So I feel like this is in my mind more of like a build towards 2027 as well. Very different perspective than how Dignitas is doing it though. [00:18:20] Speaker A: Yeah, it's definitely, you know, the performance of Shopify Rebellion and Split one and Split Two have definitely put a damper on my Shopify. Rebellion will be the best team in lcs. Take that I had at the beginning of the year. [00:18:32] Speaker B: You do have no idea how many times live venues people came up to me and just were like, so Shopify Rebellion, best team in Na, Right. And I'm like, guys, please. [00:18:41] Speaker A: It was. [00:18:43] Speaker B: That was six months ago. Prediction. Like, come on. But also, I think it's hilarious. You don't have to stop. If you're listening to this, you can keep. [00:18:50] Speaker A: No, no. Absolutely not. [00:18:52] Speaker B: Terrible prediction. [00:18:54] Speaker A: But if you see me at a riftbound event, do the same. Shout out to the guy that I met at a riftbound event in. In Hartford that I didn't get your name, but sat diagonally for me in one of the rounds and said, hi, I'm so sorry I couldn't actually chat with you. Yes, it has been that long since I've been on one of the episodes. [00:19:11] Speaker B: That is crazy. [00:19:13] Speaker A: Wow. [00:19:13] Speaker B: It has been a while. Well, hey, it just means. It means so much more that you're on here. And I'm sure that that duelist is listening and is probably like, wow, Yani didn't remember my name. That's crazy that he never told me his name out. Oh, he never told you? Okay, well, never mind. [00:19:27] Speaker A: We never. We never got introduced. I was in the middle of my game and I wanted to chat with him afterward, and I was like, ah. I literally said to myself, got to finish this one quick. And it was Aurora versus Aurelia. And we went all three games. And as I was closing the last game, I looked over, he wasn't there anymore. I'm like, damn it. [00:19:44] Speaker B: And for the record of anybody who understands what Aurora versus Irelia means, Yanni was playing Aurora. So you can now unfollow him on all social media and actually block him. That's probably a good idea. Wait, look, I'm on the Aurora hate train, man. This is. This is not hidden information. [00:20:02] Speaker A: A balance deck, but it's not fun. [00:20:05] Speaker B: Okay, well, let's go. We're gonna be honest for too long. Okay, fair enough. You know what? [00:20:12] Speaker A: Respect. [00:20:13] Speaker B: I'll shake your hand next time I see you. One other piece of information happened over in Europe, which was a big coaching staff change. We'll talk about this a little bit once we get into the MSI review portion of the episode. But first, G2 are already making coaching staff changes following their unceremonious departure in msi. They're really strong. Win early on in the tournament, or rather just earlier in the tournament versus T1 beating the reigning world champions, 3 1. [00:20:46] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:46] Speaker B: T1 looked a little weaker than they did at Worlds. They were kind of shaky in plans and, you know, were struggling in the group stage, or rather the bracket stage. G2 still beat them 31 clean win. And then they get Swept by North America and Lion. And immediately, a couple days later, Romain Baghier, general manager, announces. We always look for ways to challenge ourselves to improve the team. We've never been afraid to make tough decisions. Jankos, Mike and Mickey as examples that he gave. If we believe there's a chance to go higher on the staff side after winter, we felt that we needed a change to help the team break and they are letting go their head coach. Crazy, crazy moves. They're trying to break into another ceiling rather is the continuation of that quote. Sorry, I was trying to click on the tweet and it took a while to come up. So they're adding Perks to create this change in the system. And Perks is now moving from assistant coach to head coach. Yeah, they're dropping Dylan Falco. Dylan Falco was historically the most successful European coach in the history of the region and he's out. They're bringing on Perks, a previous former pro player to now coach the team. And yes, Perks has the accolades. Yes, Perks made it to a world's finals and won an msi. Can he coach is still something that I, I don't have enough information. I. I haven't seen enough of the back end of G2 to really know. But he's like a couple of months of experience. So this is a big shakeup. What are your thoughts here, Yanni? Do you think this is an overreaction for G2 or do you think this is like kind of writing on the wall? [00:22:28] Speaker A: I think this is crazy. Yeah. [00:22:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:22:31] Speaker A: I think their justification of wanting to kind of break a new ceiling is understandable because and we it something someplace where you see coaching changes really do a lot and do a lot of heavy lifting is in traditional sports because in in league it's kind of difficult to determine like if a coach moves the needle or not. And like I think Dylan Falco is definitely a guy who moved the needle. Right. But like in traditional sports, you know, sometimes the team would be really, really good, but they'd stagnate and there would need to be a change at the top in terms of coaching in order for the team to kind of get over the top. And I think that's what G2 were trying to do here. I just, I don't know, man. At the begin, like in the middle of a year, like that's kind of crazy. No, like, I would not say that this was a bad MSI by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, they got skunked by hle. Yes, they got skunked by. By Lion. Right. But you went out there, you got a reverse sweep against Top Esports, you got a clean win over T1. I would chalk up G2 losing to lion at like 3 0, especially as G2 just not being the better team on the day. It's kind of very similar to what happened in the finals of msi. In my opinion, the better team was just not the better team on the day. I think that's kind of what happened with G2 versus Lion. Although I do think lion are very good and that I have G2 only being slightly better than them. I mean, a3.0 though would have been. Is pretty much unfathomable. So I think this might be a bit of an overcorrection. I am really concerned because there is a chance that G2 just come in and you lose that extra preparation. There's something that Perks can't provide that Dylan Falco was providing and the team is worse off for it. But I don't think an organization like G2 would be making this move completely blind. So I have to kind of, you know, go off of the fact that they've been such a good organization for so long that I gotta hand wave it and say, I guess they know what they're doing. Yeah. [00:24:32] Speaker B: I mean they have the historical kind of context of just being the best European team for so many years in a row. And Dylan Falco was not there for all of it. It was also Coach Grabs for a long time. So Coach Grabs kind of started the win streak for G2. Dylan Falco picked up the baton and turned it into a legacy for G2. Like, man, they have dominated Europe for year over year over year under Dylan Falco. And then they come to international and when like the last time they made it to a finals was I actually, I guess it was firsthand it did you guys make it to a finals at like a smaller international tournament earlier this year, but still, like they, they haven't gotten over that final hurdle. And I, I could imagine a world where, especially after such an embarrassing loss to end North America when they should by all accounts, like, I, I don't think anybody, if you look me in the eyes and say you're not surprised that NA beat EU and that this was fully the expected result, I would say I, I gotta get on whatever you're on. Like, that's crazy. [00:25:40] Speaker A: There's no way you're frankly lying to yourself. There's no way you're not, you're not watching other regions. [00:25:45] Speaker B: If you watch G2 and Lion, North America and EU at MSI and said, yeah, North America is going to beat you. Like that. [00:25:53] Speaker A: That especially like, you know, we played [00:25:56] Speaker B: Korea and then it was close and then it was like, okay, maybe we doubted lion too much. But in that moment, it's like, yeah, you should have won that. And they get swept 3, 0. [00:26:06] Speaker A: So that. [00:26:06] Speaker B: That's got a sting. I understand, like, making a change afterwards. I could imagine a world where this is the players being like, look, man, like, these drafts sucked. Like, I do not. [00:26:17] Speaker A: Dylan would not let me go Vain. [00:26:19] Speaker B: Yeah, dude. G2 drafts, they were not good. [00:26:23] Speaker A: I mean, I mean, BLG had some pretty bad drafts late in MSI as well. So it's not like. [00:26:28] Speaker B: Sure. [00:26:29] Speaker A: It's not like G2 were the only ones. [00:26:31] Speaker B: Yeah. But I feel like in a way, I don't know how much because obviously I'm not listening to the draft and I don't want to like, talk too much about who's at fault here. From my perspective, all I will say is that broken blade blind picking multiple times, pretty rough when he was having [00:26:49] Speaker A: such a good tournament too. [00:26:51] Speaker B: He's having a great tournament. And like, yes, he gets the Anivia Flex pick in game one, which he's able to win Lane versus Dokla early, but they just never get into a proper team fight. And they're playing a J4 solo front line. You have an Orianna and a Seraphine behind you, which is like, that's some healing, that's some shielding. That, that's kind of nice. But like J4 then builds full damage and it's like, okay, well, you're just gonna go in and die. What do we do it here? [00:27:21] Speaker A: That's a player thing too, right? Like, you have to adjust on the fly a little bit. [00:27:25] Speaker B: I mean, and then game two, it's like they have one knock up to set up the Yasuo top lane, which historically has been a gnar counter. But Dokla played out of his mind. We're getting a little too much into MSI actually preview. So rather than a rather MSI review before I keep going down that line, we can talk about the series for a long time. The story being Dylan Falco out perks. And I'm unconvinced it's going to make G2 better, but I think it will make G2 feel better after such a tough loss. But we'll see what summer looks like. Do you think the G2 will still win EU this summer with Perks as coach? Let's make some predictions. I'm actually going to take a spicy prediction. I'm going to say no, I don't think you summer. [00:28:12] Speaker A: I think. I think they'll still be a top team. I think. [00:28:16] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. [00:28:17] Speaker A: I don't think they're gonna. It's also, like, very difficult to just win. Right. So I think. I think that if we were to. Not to. Not to get any gambling talk, but I think if you were to, you know, kind of, you know, have odds on that, I think the. The odds would not have G2 as the favorite after this move. [00:28:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. [00:28:37] Speaker A: Maybe. Close. [00:28:39] Speaker B: Well, I'm happy we're aligned and I'm happy that, again, we were also both aligned about the Shopify prediction. So anytime I make a prediction for the rest of the year, I'm always going to remind people that I was the most incorrect on the history of the LCS broadcast at the beginning of the year. So if I say something with confidence, just know that it is still probably wrong. But that. That's my take. That's my honest opinion. [00:29:00] Speaker A: You can also just blame me. [00:29:03] Speaker B: I would never blame you, Yanni. I'll just judge you for playing Aurora decks. All right. One other thing that happened at MSI was the League Classic show match. This was something that was announced and I don't even know if we covered it on the last episode because we took a week break during msi. But League Classic is coming back. They did a show match. I did not get to catch any of this. It is still on my watch. [00:29:28] Speaker A: You gotta go. You gotta go watch it out. [00:29:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I need to. But, but can you, like, kind of give a summary? I don't mind spoilers, but, like, what was it like to see the old map, to see these old players coming back? Because there were some fun rosters here. [00:29:41] Speaker A: Dude. Dude, it was so nice seeing the old players come back. Doublelift, you know, got to play Vayne. I mean, it was. It was awesome. [00:29:50] Speaker B: Let me run through the rosters real quick before you give your summary. So there were two teams. There was Team Baron, which was ZZ Itai, which was a player well before my time. Zatai. I don't know who this is, but I know that they're very relevant. Ambition, Scara. Doublelift, Weijiao. I know the other four names. I don't know. Zatai. Then Team Dragon was Soaz, Levy, Pawn, Captain Jack and Yellowstar. Captain Jack. I know because he was the one that the Instant Cleanse is named after, where you cleanse the moment. A cc. [00:30:28] Speaker A: You know, Levi. Because you call. [00:30:29] Speaker B: I know Levi. Of course. The Nocturne, Level 6. Yeah. Yeah. [00:30:32] Speaker A: I was like, dude, why'd you just call him Levy, bro? [00:30:34] Speaker B: Oh, sorry, did I call him Levy? My bad. [00:30:36] Speaker A: I was like, does he not know this guy either? [00:30:39] Speaker B: The tweet I'm being. [00:30:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:30:42] Speaker B: Okay. But yes, now. Now that I. I've run through the roster. Yeah. What was it like watching it and kind of seeing the old map? [00:30:47] Speaker A: Dude, it was. First of all, it was awesome to watch because the ad carries just didn't instantly pop in a fight. And then Kassadin was played and, like, seeing his old riftwalk range was like, so insane. Having said that, I do have some thoughts. You. They have the modern skins in the game and they don't interact super well with the map. And the models were looked a little glitchy whenever they turned. They also gave Baron Buff to Minions to end games faster, which I don't really like because that's like, not the point of classic League of Legends. Also, the base, they didn't change anything to the base. I just realized how much of an eyesore the old bases. It is. Real, real bad. There were. They had like one where one time where the observers were looking at somebody respawning and I was like, holy. The old base was. Was not aesthetically pleasing. Oh, they also enter. They also added base gates, which I'm not. Again, I'm not really a big fan of that. They've made a couple of changes that I'm not really a fan of, but it was still a nice nostalgia trip. It was very cool to see old gameplay because it was a lot slower. But for all of those who are like, ah, the best league is back. Modern league is much more fun and exciting. [00:32:21] Speaker B: So. So this did not convince you that we should go back to old League? This was just. [00:32:26] Speaker A: It'll be a fun novelty, but the way things. The way things are in terms of game pacing, I think is a lot better and a lot more exciting. Some of the fights felt like. Felt almost like they were predictable. Whereas modern day fights will sometimes have unpredictability to them just because somebody can go in and make a huge play. [00:32:52] Speaker B: I feel like, yeah, but I. I never got to play old league, which is part of why I'm excited for League Classic. [00:32:59] Speaker A: So I started in 2015, so. [00:33:01] Speaker B: So I was on the. The new map. Part of why I'm excited for this is to go back and experience it. But one thing that I've noticed because I have gone back and watched some of the old games from the time is. Yeah, it long time to kill people. Like health bars go down slower in team fights. And I think that specifically assassins have a much harder time one shotting backline. So I, I immediately when you said like, yeah, ad carries are alive for longer in the fights, I was like, yep, that kind of checks out. That's to my expectation. But then also the extra layer of like it. Does that make it more fun that like fights last 20 seconds longer on average when we still have team fights that will last 50 seconds in modern league? Like, yeah, it can get a little much sometimes. Okay, cool. Well, I'm excited to go back and watch it. I'm excited to experience it for myself. But cool to hear that at least a lot of people appreciated it. Specifically the casters. We had like freak back. [00:34:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:06] Speaker A: It was so awesome. Dude, that. That part was so great. It was so great to hear Deficio on a cast again. [00:34:13] Speaker B: Dude, it's been so long. I still remember one of the most iconic lines in my mind in League of Legends Shout casting history will be Trevor, kiss me. I will never forget that moment from the vio and just quick shot breaking down laughing mid cast. And like me laughing because I. I remember listening to that live. [00:34:36] Speaker A: I remember that live. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:34:38] Speaker B: That was 2015 League of Legends. That was. That was classic. So, yeah, go check it out. If you haven't, I'm gonna go check it out after this episode at some point. [00:34:45] Speaker A: It's a fun watch. [00:34:47] Speaker B: Very fun watch. Do you happen to know when League Classic is coming? I don't remember if they announced. [00:34:51] Speaker A: July 29th. [00:34:52] Speaker B: July 29th. [00:34:53] Speaker A: That's July 29th. Yeah, that's coming up in a couple of weeks. We got to get the casters together and do a. Do a whole streamed thing maybe. I know we gotta do. [00:35:02] Speaker B: Yeah, we gotta do a podcast episode of like Community. The league rundown Community hopping in and trying classic league. That'd be super fun. [00:35:10] Speaker A: Dude, that would be sick. Okay. I like this idea. [00:35:13] Speaker B: All right, cool. Well, we'll work on that, we'll workshop it and hopefully give some more updates for next week's episode. But for now, it's finally time to hop into the episode proper. I know that you have a pretty quick deadline here of when you need to get going, so we can go pretty quick through this. But msi, this is going to be big picture reactions. We. We skipped an episode. So we're not going to break down every game. We're not going to break down every moment. We're just going to break down the big moments and the big reactions to it. So I'm going to open up the floor initially to you, Yanni, and just ask you up front, like, what were your big takeaways from msi? I included a couple of bullet point talking points. So if you want to include any of those, you can. But otherwise, just what are your big takeaways from from this year's msi? And what do you think leaving this tournament? [00:36:00] Speaker A: My biggest takeaway is that the best team did not win. I think, yeah, I think that BLG is the better team than hle and I think that on the day, team wise, they were not the better team and they were playing far worse than their first time around against hle. Not that I think HLE made adjustments, but I just thought the drafting out of BLG was worse. I thought their play was worse. And the fact that that series went 5 games still is a bit of an indictment on HLE. I think that they played much better than BLG on the day. And I have many, many words for Ben that I am not happy about. This man was. This man went back to 2025, Ben, where he was just running it down. So that's my big takeaway. That being said, that's from a LPL standpoint. I think from a worldwide standpoint. I mean, is this not maybe the closest international ever? It might be in terms of who could have won. Like, I think if BLG plays like they did against HLE and they're playing against lion, like lion could beat them. Right. Like and like, I think that knowing that reasonably any region potentially could have won, obviously if G2 would look better on the day against lion, we're having a different conversation about that because we know how good G2 can be. It was just very, very close, I think for the first time ever, very, [00:37:29] Speaker B: very close international tournament. I, I echo the sentiment that, like if HLE that was against lion is the one that showed up to BLG in the finals, BLG win. If BL3 0 that matched up against HLE in the upper bracket finals was the team that showed up, they win. For some reason, we got like an overpowered HLE and an underpowered BLG in the grand finals and it was so close. Did not go how I expected. It was still close, still full five game series. But I think the biggest bummer is that we don't get the golden road. Blg, we're on track to get the golden road. It's another golden road. No team has ever done it. It's never been harder because now there's another international tournament and another split in winter compared to old years and still nobody's accomplished it. In the history of League of Legends, we've never had a Golden road of a team winning every regional final and every international G2 is still crazily enough. The team that has come the closest over in eu, they made it to the world finals a year that they could have done it. [00:38:33] Speaker A: Hle can still make it the Olden Road because they won the Rhodes msi. So if they win this next split in worlds, they will win the Olden Road. [00:38:41] Speaker B: The Olden Road as opposed to the Golden Road. The Olden road, of course, being the one that, like, if we had not changed to a three split format with three international events, you still could win spring msi, summer Worlds. I like that also. It's a fun name because it sounds very similar to Golden Road. In fact, it is one consonant different. Let's talk about lion though, real quick. I want to get your thoughts here. Lion over performing, I'm going to call it what I think it is. And that was overperforming. I, I was very surprised that we were a top three region, that as a region, NA got more wins than China. China made it to the finals, pushed Korea all the way to five games. But overall, between both team Liquid and Lion, we had a better win record. That's awesome, dude. Like, that's so cool. And then you remember we never beat a Chinese team and we still have what the name of this podcast episode is a 2,824day lost streak versus Korea. Oh, my goodness. That is painful to say. [00:39:47] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's tough because if, if this lion ran into T1, we would have beaten. [00:39:54] Speaker B: I think if this lion ran into esports, we would have beaten them. You would have only played first seeds the entire tournament. We beat Pacific, we beat Europe, we beat Brazil, and then we almost can't beat the number one seed in Korea. We almost beat them. If we had played the second seed, we would have won that. Oh, it's so sad. But the loose tree continues. [00:40:17] Speaker A: Frustrating. Yeah, it's, it's, it's frustrating from that aspect, I mean. Yep. But yeah, better, better record than China. Makes me very upset because, you know, gotta, gotta always rep the lpl. I mean, top esports did so bad that they replaced their support already. [00:40:33] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, you told me about that. What, what's going on with the, the support switch. [00:40:37] Speaker A: Yeah, so he's swapping. They traded him to nip for Zhuo. So Fung Yue is now going to nip and Chuo is now coming to top esports. Apparently they were already trying to replace Feng. I'm not entirely sure but apparently rumors said that Jackie Love like stood up for him. Was like give him another chance. I don't even know why they were thinking about replacing him the first time. I think that he has played fine this year. He has deficiencies on Enchanters. Like I get it. It happens. This is also like he is a true rookie. This is his first year split one. You had all the other stuff going on comes in this, you know, Split two playing just about as well as he has been. Has been one of the rocks of the team. Has done really well. Had a poor international, but so did Zway on. I'd argue that Zweighon had a worse time than. Than Fengyui did. You know, I just don't think they should have. I don't think they should have replaced anybody. I think you should just ran it back because domestically this roster has been great. [00:41:30] Speaker B: So internationally they have struggled. Which is. Which is. [00:41:34] Speaker A: I think it's a top Esports thing and I'm starting to think that maybe that's a Jackie Love thing. [00:41:39] Speaker B: I don't actually know. [00:41:45] Speaker A: Cream has been playing really, really well and has gotten a lot better. But Tian and Jackie Love characters have consistently had issues at internationals. So we will instead blame the rookie players. [00:41:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it's tough to blame, you know, past world champions. [00:42:02] Speaker A: It is, it is. [00:42:03] Speaker B: They usually just get a free pass. But yeah, I, I agree with this tournament at least in the performances going bigger picture though because rivalries as regions. We've talked about N A versus Korea and N A versus China. We've struggled against both of them and still big loss. Streaks continuing. N A versus EU though, baby, let's talk about that. We still 3 OG2. We still 3 0'd Casey in the play ins. [00:42:28] Speaker A: We own their fraud asses. [00:42:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Can. Can you say definitively Yanni, as one of the voices of the podcast, is NA considering the context of G2 actually beating a Korean team and a Chinese team, the second seed from both regions, they actually beat both of them in this MSI and NA has still 2,824day loss streak versus Korea and around like a 2,500day law streak versus China, can we definitively say NA is better than Euro? [00:43:03] Speaker A: I'm gonna answer your question with another question, Kankus. [00:43:06] Speaker B: Okay, let's hear the question. [00:43:06] Speaker A: Yeah. What place did G2 finish at MSI [00:43:09] Speaker B: I think they got fourth place at MSI. [00:43:11] Speaker A: And what place did lion finish? [00:43:13] Speaker B: I'm pretty sure NA got third place at MSI. [00:43:16] Speaker A: Well, there's your answer, baby. [00:43:18] Speaker B: Okay, There we go. That's all I needed. Let's go. [00:43:21] Speaker A: All right. For, like. For, like, a real answer, huh? Oh, dude, it is. It feels very inconclusive. And I hate to say that, and I hate to, like, be like, a fence sitter, but, like, like, that 3:2 versus HLE does a lot of heavy lifting. [00:43:36] Speaker B: It does, yeah. [00:43:37] Speaker A: G2 versus Top Esports. They almost got swept. They reverse sweep them. That's, like, excellent. So you still get points for that, but you still were at a point where you went down. Oh two. Like, that's kind of how I view reverse sweeps. You got this really nice, clean win over T1, who was very clearly not the best team in the tournament, but still a decent team. So it is very tough to say with the direct win and the winner the. The 32 to HLE, I am willing to say that it is still very close and still really hard to determine. But had lion beat HLE, had T1 beat G2, it'd be very, very different. [00:44:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like the asterisk is. It's hard to say NA is better than EU when we have a much worse win record versus China and Korea does, but the fact that we have such a positive record versus Europe is, like, it brings life. And I. I also. I mean, we've. We've already said if we had played T1 or Top Esports, I think we beat either of them. So it was a bit of a lucky draw in the bracket to some extent, but unlucky in another argument because, yeah, we had an easy bracket to make top three, but we didn't get to play the weaker Chinese and Korean teams to prove that we can actually beat them and end the lost streak. So bit of give and take. Final question I have for you, Yanni parody. This is something that I've heard a lot of people talking about. The gap is closing. We've had this conversation for 10 years now. Where do you think the gap is between eastern and western teams? Specifically, like, when it comes to first seeds versus second seeds, because I feel like first seed of China and Korea are still, like, proving that they're the only ones that can really make international finals other than G2 occasionally, like last MSI, or rather first stand. But, like, when it comes to the best team in NA versus the second best team in China or Korea or the best team in Europe, versus the. The second best team in China and Korea. It feels like that's really close and like we can actually beat them and. And there's a parody there. So. So where do you think parity is in the regions right now? Do you think it's like it is closing or do you think that that's still some. Some copium? [00:46:04] Speaker A: I think that there was a great quote from MC Leo, the chosen stats guy for the LCS. There's a great tweet that he had during MSI. After all the 3 O's into like some 3 twos. The gap is closing. The gap is widening. The gap is closing. The gap is widening. The gap is. And it just went on. Yeah, it's. It's so tough to determine because like, as an example, T1 like dusted team, like, yeah, T1 dusted team, like, look great. Like, yeah, it was not close. So like, can we really say that when 2 seed NA got absolutely ranched by 2 seed Korea? I do agree with you in a sense that it seems like these first. These first seeded teams are now putting up a lot more of a fight outside of Korea and China. And you can be like, hey, you know what? Like they can absolutely go take out a second seed in any other region and they can go contend for, you know, games against the. The first seed. I just need to see it happen at Worlds. I'm a kind of guy that's like, if I see it once, I'm like, okay, sure, yeah. Can you do it again? Can you do it in a rainy night in Stoke? Like, [00:47:15] Speaker B: I'm also sorry, I'm counting up right now. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 6 of the play ins. 6 of all 6 playing games or series were 3 O's. And then 1, 2, 3, 4,. 5, 6, 7 of the what I believe it's like 16. 7 of the 16 main stage games were also 3 O's. So over half of the entire games played at MSI were 3, 0 sweeps and a lot of those were between second seed versus second seed of regions. So yeah, I hear what you're saying and I also definitely empathize or rather agree with the Worlds is what matters the most to people. MSI is an international competition. [00:48:02] Speaker A: But oh yeah, it started. MSI is starting to get that prestige. [00:48:06] Speaker B: It's getting prestige. But just because msi, like a team can do well at msi, usually NA does best at MSI and worst at Worlds. And that has historically been our thing is like, okay, we can actually make it to a finals every now and then at msi. I know it's been a couple years [00:48:22] Speaker A: now, but like their series showed that they can. [00:48:26] Speaker B: So, yeah, yeah, like we were close to a third finals appearance. Lion was one game away. They were up to one over Korea's first seed. Lost two games in a row, but they were close. But at the end of the day, it's like, even if they had made it to finals and then we go to Worlds, I would have been like, oh, boy. Because like, we always suck at Worlds and it's just so weird that, like it always happens that way. So, yeah, it's tough to call. I think that it is promising that the first seeds are still within. Like, like, like we're, we're hurting them, we're hurting the first seeds and I think that we can beat the second seeds, but I don't think that NA is any closer to a World Championship than we were 10 years ago. That's kind of where, where I feel. Yeah, is like, I feel like the first seeds are still that much better than us in the clutch moments like on the big stage. [00:49:27] Speaker A: Do you think that, does this inspire you that maybe lion can make a semi final at Worlds? [00:49:34] Speaker B: I think so. I think, I think they could, especially with the new format and if they get as lucky of a draw, I mean. But actually I kind of want Lion. I kind of want lion to get like the third seed LPL team, the second seed Korean team and bro, yeah, they can we. It's been so many years. It's been almost 10 years since we beat Korea in a best of five. That is absurd. It was 20. 20 or 20, sorry, 2018. C9 versus Afreeka. Freaks. We 3, 0 them. That was the last Korean team in the tournament. That was the only ever recorded year that Korea performed poorly at an international. They got one team in top eight and they bombed. Every year before. Every year since, they've gotten a team to at least semis, if not finals. And most of those times they win the World Championship. And that was eight years ago. [00:50:31] Speaker A: So long ago. [00:50:31] Speaker B: That was eight years ago, though. The last time we beat them. It's crazy to think about, but here's the world. Here's to summer split and here's to MSI wrapping up. That's gonna do it for this week's episode. Thank you so much for coming on, Yanni. I know that you had a hard out and I kept you 10 minutes after that. Appreciate you. [00:50:46] Speaker A: Fine. I was, I was chatting with K man and he was like, oh, yeah, take your time. [00:50:50] Speaker B: So Perfect. All right, well, I appreciate you so much. Hopefully for next week, we'll have a couple more members of the podcast on. And again, shout out to that one guy that was dueling next to Yanni at that one regional qualifier that Yanni never got the name of and should feel really bad about because he never said hi to him afterwards. [00:51:06] Speaker A: I'm sorry. [00:51:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it's okay. You'll get him next time, right? [00:51:10] Speaker A: I hope so. I love meeting new people. [00:51:13] Speaker B: But also, shout out to everybody who says hi to the members of the podcast whenever you find us in the wild, whether it's a Riftbound, whether it's at a LCS event, whether it's going to be at World Worlds is in North America this coming summer. Hopefully you get to run into a lot of us. Yanni, are you planning to go to Worlds at all this year? [00:51:28] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely perfect. I'm definitely trying to go to finals. I would really like to do a week in Texas. When I went to MSI last year, I was there for the entire week. That last week that led up to finals and staying in an Airbnb with my esports friends and going to watch games of League of Legends every day was genuinely one of the greatest weeks of my life in terms of enjoyment. [00:51:55] Speaker B: Dude, last year around this time at msi, you painted my body green. Do you remember that? [00:52:01] Speaker A: Holy. [00:52:02] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, that was fun. [00:52:04] Speaker A: And then we had to. And then the next day, I had to clean the entire time. [00:52:08] Speaker B: Dude, that was so funny. [00:52:09] Speaker A: I was like, looking. I'm like, okay, I got the tub clean. I'm like, let me go and get these last couple things. And there was a splotch of green on the curtain. [00:52:16] Speaker B: Sorry about that. [00:52:17] Speaker A: No, no, they didn't say anything. I was like, I can't get this out, so I'm just gonna hide it. And they never said anything. [00:52:23] Speaker B: So that was a great time, though. I. I was the Fly Quest number one fan in the audience in Vancouver last year. Hope to be the number one n a fan this year at world. [00:52:32] Speaker A: Maybe number one. Any fly quest 10 at worlds. I. I could. I think that. Seems to me it could be Fly Quest. [00:52:37] Speaker B: We'll see if C9's crazy roster moves do anything we talked about those last episode. [00:52:42] Speaker A: But. [00:52:42] Speaker B: But either way, thank you for listening, everybody, for this week's episode of the League rundown. Thank you, Yanni, for coming on and just know that if you're listening, we love you and we'll see you next time. Bye. [00:52:53] Speaker A: Bye. See ya. [00:52:54] Speaker B: All right, cool. I don't have the soundboard to hit the normal outro. [00:52:57] Speaker A: You're good. You're good. You want to know the funniest DM that? [00:53:00] Speaker B: I just want to say it. Do you just want. Do you want to give an audible on it? [00:53:04] Speaker A: Oh, yes, Daddy. There we go. [00:53:06] Speaker B: Perfect. [00:53:07] Speaker A: You didn't give the clap, Pickle. [00:53:10] Speaker B: True. That one's usually in the intro, but, yeah, that also works in the outro, [00:53:33] Speaker A: Sam.