League Rundown - Episode 580: 1 team regions

[00:00:11] Speaker A: The amazing gets hit. Kimmy kids a little too far here. He's gonna have to try and get himself out. Living up Hillary and the rest of the shots of fire. Zion is just killing the next Zion can eat it single handedly win the game by game by game by game. [00:00:23] Speaker B: By. [00:00:27] Speaker A: Oh my God. St through and manages to the table with Messiah tanking it up. I do not believe he just leave. What? I cannot understand this game. Unicorns of love. It wasn't a mutant. They're Nexus. Hello and welcome to episode 580 of the League Rundown. This is your 2025 LTA and LEC split three finals review episode and it's lovingly entitled One Team Regions. I'm your host Kangas and I'm joined by two esteemed co hosts. Up first, fresh out of the can, we got Badger. [00:01:25] Speaker C: I'm so excited to talk about this weird world's famous format and LCS coming back. This is going to be a great time. [00:01:33] Speaker A: Well, spoilers. Come on. What if nobody knew? [00:01:36] Speaker C: I mean. Oh yeah, and this is the. Everyone who listens to us probably hasn't already heard the news. [00:01:40] Speaker A: Let's be honest, they weren't watching the broadcast. They have not been on social media or Reddit for the last three days. You know, you're right. Maybe they exist. Maybe those people are out there. But we also have joining us on this episode, guest of the podcast returning. We got Cubby. Cubby, you were actually there at the LTA finals, so happy to get your thoughts on kind of how that was like from your viewing perspective. But also how's it going or how's it been going for anybody who hasn't caught up with you on socials lately? [00:02:07] Speaker B: Yeah, man, it's good. I'm just trying to parlay my career of the being the co host of the, the largest North American League of Legends podcast into like the next largest one, you know. So that's, that's, that's. [00:02:19] Speaker A: You went from the largest to the longest running. There we go. [00:02:23] Speaker B: Yeah, there we go. Anyway, I'd be, I would not look at my podcast history for you guys, but no, it's, it's been good. It was a lot of fun in Texas. I, I had a really unique experience actually going as I pretty much was with FlyQuest for the event, so I didn't have any responsibilities. I just kind of got to hang around and got to see everything. And yeah, it was a lot of fun. I mean, events are always a good time, but Texas is very Americana, as we like to say. And I think the fans really had a good time. So it was a really good energy around the arena for sure. [00:02:54] Speaker A: I gotta say, I'm jealous that you got to drink the whole time while you were there. That sounds like a blast. And also, you'll be in charge of pulling in the, the. The. The viewers with their questions for this week's episode. So. Okay. [00:03:09] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Okay, I'll be ready. [00:03:11] Speaker A: Sweet. Sweet. All right, well, let's get into the global news here. It's only gonna be the three of us, a little lean crew. But up first, Badger. You already talked about it. Worlds. Worlds. Worlds is right around the corner. It starts in about two weeks time from when we're recording this episode. And we now have every team confirmed as well as the world's Primer that came out. And the Primer had information that corrected some of what we have been talking about on the podcast. So get us up to speed. Get all the viewers up to speed. What's going on with Worlds, who's now fully qualified and also what's the format looking like? [00:03:46] Speaker C: Okay, so I have to ask, who wasn't qualified? The last time we did it, it was what? [00:03:50] Speaker A: It was Top and ig, I think that was. And Fnatic. Fnatic. [00:03:54] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Top Esports and IG have now qualified to Worlds as the three and the four seeds for lpl, respectively. And Fnatic is now the third seed for. For the lec. I asked about it when we were talking about this, I believe it was last episode, and I asked what pool each seed was going to be and we kind of talked about it. The Primer article hadn't come out yet. We were expecting it to come out at some point and it did. Just what, two days ago? [00:04:29] Speaker A: I think from the day of recording, maybe even one day ago. I don't quite remember. [00:04:33] Speaker C: Yeah, who knows at this point? Yeah, but so essentially every first seed that is going to be at Worlds is a Pool 1 team. The second seeds are all Pool 2 seeds, but Pool 2 is also going to include the winner of the IG T1 play in series. The third seed from whichever region they come from will be in pool two. And then all the third seeds and the play in winner will be in pull three. [00:05:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So basically there's two regions with a fourth seed, but they're playing in the play ins. So whatever fourth seed wins that play ins bumps up their region's third seed up into that group B. At least that's the way I'm thinking. [00:05:19] Speaker C: That's the way it sounds like it's. [00:05:20] Speaker A: Not enough space down there in group C at that point. And it also means that five first group seeds or five first group teams plus five third group teams. Very clean. Swiss bracket of like first seeds or. [00:05:36] Speaker C: And then the two and then pool two teams can only play other pool. Two teams. [00:05:40] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:05:41] Speaker B: Yeah. That's pretty similar to last year. No, like. Yeah, yeah. [00:05:45] Speaker A: I had completely forgotten how last year worked, though. [00:05:48] Speaker B: There were. I think there were maybe more teams involved off the bat. But again, it gets down to eight and. Well, I guess there was like a formal plan. Right. Because the plan has just been turned into the IG tries to do it. No other LPL team has ever done at Worlds. And that is BT1. So, you know, the. That. That will be interesting. [00:06:09] Speaker A: Just something easy, something simple, you know. [00:06:11] Speaker C: Good luck with that. I'm gonna be honest. [00:06:13] Speaker B: Yeah. But I also think it's region locked for the first round as well, or at least it should be. [00:06:18] Speaker A: So I don't believe it was. No. Really remember re reading in the prime or. No, I think it was. I think it was top eight is not region locked. And that really surprised me because like in the primer it specifically said like chaos at that point. But Swiss now. Now I'm remembering. I think it is actually still region locked. [00:06:36] Speaker B: Yeah, let me. Yeah, I mean, I can check real quick. Yeah, I mean, I think top eight not being. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Is. Is kind of crazy because we could get all four LCK teams on one side of the bracket, theoretically, and that would be crazy. Like guarantees one LCK team in Finals, obviously. But it also means that they're going to be like team killing a lot if that happens. Low chance. But, you know, we've had the low chance happen at Worlds before, so we've. [00:07:02] Speaker C: There's a. There's always the chance that we have the best series of Worlds being the quarterfinals, and we just have to be mentally prepared for it. [00:07:08] Speaker A: Hey, last year it happened. Flyque was Gen G. That should have been Finals, you know. [00:07:14] Speaker C: Yes, that was definitely the best series at Worlds last year. [00:07:18] Speaker A: That's what I'm saying. You know, I don't hear anybody disagreeing. Right. [00:07:24] Speaker C: I think. I think World Finals, the LG T1 series is pretty good, but you know, that's beside the point. Yeah, yeah, I get it. I get it. [00:07:33] Speaker A: Yeah. You got to gas up the. Gas up the teams, but yeah, that is the kind of world's recap. Cubby, real quick thoughts. Because you were covering lpl unofficial English broadcast, you also. I know. Keep your. Your Fingers to the pulse of LCK. How do you feel about IG vs T1 that play INS matchup? [00:07:53] Speaker B: I. I feel pretty confident that T1 is going to win. I don't think you're going to find many people that are going to make a case for IG. I think the best hope for IG is that it is a different patch. 19 is, I believe they're going to play on 19 or 20. I mean, it's going to present a few different curveballs. Right. With a lot of the changes that they've made compared to the last iteration of the game that they were playing especially for, I believe LPL was still on 17, but not. Honestly, I, I feel like the LCK and the LPL this year sent the four strongest performers that they've had for the, like, the vast majority of the year. I, I think that both regions should be happy about the four teams that are representing. It's just too bad that we're not going to see IG actually compete at Worlds Formal because I, I really don't give them much of a chance. I think that if they want to win, it's got to be like the shy pulling out a miracle out of the hat. And for me, IG's greatest strength is probably they've dug themselves out a lot of the holes and some of the games with their late game team fighting, which is quite good. But I don't think the T1 is gonna let them get there. So that's, that's a concern. [00:09:01] Speaker A: And then the next question on my mind is, how would you rank ig if we're assuming they're gonna lose and not make it to Worlds proper? How do you rank them compared to like Hundred Thieves, Vivocade, Fnatic, like these other teams that are like the kind of third, second best from different regions coming in, like, do you think that this is like, really sad that IG isn't making it, or do you think that it's like LPL's fourth seed isn't as strong as historically it might have been? [00:09:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, like, let's put it this way, if T1 makes it, like, I think they're a favorite to make it the quarterfinals. Right. If IG makes it, I would say they're a borderline quarterfinals or a team like a borderline top eight, but I'd give them more of a shot than VKS. I'd give them more of a Shot than 100 Thieves, and I would. I haven't watched a ton of Fnatic. I will say Just because I didn't watch a ton of EU this year. But I'd say on paper, I'd. That'd be a little bit closer. I don't know who I'd give the edge, though, to, so. But Yeah, I mean, T1 should be a shoe in for quarters that they're in. It'd be very shocking if they didn't make quarters. And then if ignore somehow beats T1 and makes it, I. I don't know. I mean, we'll see how they look in that match. Right. But I think on paper right now, like, this isn't a team that I'd expect to make it into quarters. [00:10:12] Speaker A: Okay. Well, appreciate your insight because you're kind of in a unique position. Mazel's usually on the podcast to talk the LPL side, but you kind of know both sides of the in a way. [00:10:23] Speaker B: I used to follow way more lck, you know, but LPL is every day at the same time slot. It's crazy. [00:10:28] Speaker A: True. Yeah, true. [00:10:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:31] Speaker A: Still, you know, value your judgment on the. The matter though, so thank you for that. That is the world's news. There's a couple other news topics that broke this past week. Number one on a lot of people's minds at LTA Finals Badger. It was officially announced I was a good riot contractor and did not leak it. Nobody got it from me. I tried for information. [00:10:54] Speaker C: I want every listener to know. I want everyone listening to know that I did. I may or may not have pinged Steve like 10 minutes after the news went live. And no, I didn't even ping him. I just posted something. And then you're just like more information coming tomorrow. I assume they'll announce format as well. And I knew in the back of my mind as soon as I read that, yeah, he knows. [00:11:18] Speaker B: He. [00:11:19] Speaker C: Yeah, he's got. He's got insider information. I. And I'm not going to be able to get it from him because he's literally in the same box as Mark Zimmerman right now and it's going to be really hard to pry it from him. [00:11:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:31] Speaker C: Without having his phone. [00:11:32] Speaker A: The big news confiscated, of course, is that LCS and CB LOL are officially coming back. And this was a tough secret to keep because obviously I wanted it to happen, but did not want the leak to come from me. It did leak. Sheep Esports actually made a whole article about it the morning of when the announcement was going out. It was already planned to be announced on Sunday during the broadcast, but cheap Esports got like a couple hours ahead of the story, which Was, you know, kudos to them, whoever leaked it to them. [00:12:03] Speaker B: I, I mean, I, I, it like was dropped by CB Law content creator, like earlier in the week too. Like it was teased. I mean, this is one where I think sometimes, like, it's more fun if announcements are in the moment. But also, I, I mean, I may or may not have known about this one for a while just because it was pretty hard to keep a win on it. [00:12:22] Speaker A: I do remember specifically Friday. So the day before Saturday's broadcast, you, me and Rafa got coffee and you brought it up in conversation. You're like, yeah, so about the region there, the rebrands coming back. I was like, how do you know? Who told you? Gabby? [00:12:38] Speaker B: I, I, you know, I may, I'm not a rat, but I might be a mouse that can sleuth. We'll put it that way. Uh, but no, that, that was a, that was a fun conversation. I mean, I, I think that if you would have asked any fan at the start of the year, they were not happy about the brands changing. This is a drum that we beat on hotline league a lot. Uh, I just didn't see the point behind it and going back is a positive and we'll see if we can attract some of the fans that may not have stuck with us through the era of the LTA because unfortunately, like, viewership is not. Like it did not go up this year. Right. [00:13:11] Speaker A: So, yeah, over 40%. [00:13:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is very concerning for all of us. Like, I, I mean, I, I think that the money thread about it was he, like, he had to even put in a caveat. Like, guys, this is not good for me either. Like, we have an English speaking podcast, right? Yeah. As we are on right now. So, yeah, I mean, I, in a way, I think that damage was done. I'm hoping that it is recoverable. But it is year 16 of a game and I think it's hard to get some of those fans back on board. So I think this is hopefully a step in the right direction. And to be fair, I think when Mark took over the helm in 24, like a lot of the changes he made to the league that year, I thought we were a big step in the right direction. So. And that saw growth, I believe with some of what went down, I hope we can return to that slight growth. [00:14:00] Speaker A: But it was still growth. And I will say that this is one of those things where I, I am of the opinion it is easier to get lapsed fans back than to get entirely new fans in. So I think this is A step in that direction of like, can we get the people who left to come back to the product? And then also concurrently, at the same time, you're always trying to bring in new players and new, new viewers, but I think so much focus had been on riot side for so long, like, ooh, get new audience, young audience coming in. And I'm like, it takes so much more effort to get a new audience as opposed to just convincing the people that you burned. Hey, sorry about that. We learned, like, we, we're doing better now. We're no longer on weekdays. We, we, we reverted the rebrand, like, all these issues that were coming up. So, yeah, I'm happy to see it as well. Does this mean officially the hotline league is back? Is, is that all Travis left for was just the rebrand? Is. [00:14:53] Speaker B: Yeah, it was actually a, it was actually a protest and he's the reason that it's back. You know, him leaving too big of a blow to mark in the scene. So come back. [00:15:03] Speaker A: All right, Everybody go to twitter.com and @travis gafford thanking him for bringing back the, the lcs. [00:15:10] Speaker B: You know, he couldn't make it as commissioner himself, but he could bring back the brand, you know, so. [00:15:15] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:15:16] Speaker A: Exactly. Badger, what are, what are your big thoughts? So, like, I, I, a lot of people, I think unanimously are praising this decision, but it is still awkward to be like, there wasn't really accountability alongside it of somebody like, taking the blame or taking the hit of, yeah, this was a mistake. But it seems still cool that it's happening. So where are you right now on the rebrand? [00:15:39] Speaker C: I mean, I, I, I never was really a fan of the whole LTA moniker that we adopted over the last year. I mean, I felt pretty vocal about it, but, like, just having having LCS back just seems right as a region. Like, even like, CB LOL coming back too, because, like, those are two, like, I mean, the there they were the leagues for the longest times. Like, I mean, it was NA LCS before, but then like, just continuing the LCS name while Europe took LEC as a whole. I, it just feels right for it to go back. It feels like this is potentially what could help. I mean, I, I, I don't know. Maybe, maybe we can save NA again. Who knows? I, I, I'm excited to see where this goes next year, especially if the format is going to be changing. I'm kind of curious to see how what, like, region, like, what era of format we take from the last 10 years. [00:16:44] Speaker A: Yeah, we are in the primer. It didn't say exactly what's happening, but it was like three splits, but in, like independent regions again. And heavy implication that, like, they're gonna revert a lot of the issues with the format that happened this year. So I think the two biggest complaints were rebrand and format. And it seems like Riot is taking that to heart and directly already changing the rebrand back to what it was before. Now format is gonna be the next thing to tackle. Also, I just want to give shout outs to the Brazil side of things for the change back to the old branding. Talking to some of the Brazilian talent and the Brazilian players, I was hearing that they were very angry internally and brought it up to the highest levels at Riot because they were losing sponsors, they were losing money in the league because sponsors that signed up 2024, going into 2025 were like, what the hell? This is now what we signed for. This is no longer the same product, it's no longer the same viewership. It's no longer the same metrics that you showed us before. And so that was a big driver in Riot Global changing it back. So shout out to the Brazil side that fought tooth and nail to get this change. Obviously in na, we fought too, but I think Brazil just used the right ammo in their fight where it's like, look at the money. You are directly taking money from our pocket with this rebrand. So, yeah, again, just want to give credit where it's due there as exciting. We'll keep our that story kind of updated as we get more information about what the format is going to look like for next year for both regions. But other format news happened just earlier today from the day of recording. LEC format is changing for next year. Cubby, you had a little more insight into kind of exactly what the reaction was to this. But basically the information is winter split is becoming more of like a kickoff tournament. And then throughout the year, they're going to have more of those road trips where they have the road shows, getting out of the studio, getting out into the community, which I think is like, that one's really cool. But, Cubby, I know that you were mentioning that there was kind of mixed reactions to the way that they're handling that split one. So you want to give me the lowdown? [00:18:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, what they're doing is they're going to take the winner of EMEA Masters and then Cadre's team Los Fratones and they get to compete against the 10 LEC teams. Right. So I look, I think in theory, like, it's A good idea for fans, but I think how it happened behind the scenes is actually a pretty big talking point, because what ended up happening is that Kamedo came out and streamed the owner of K Corp, who of course is known for having no opinions or thoughts, you know, usually very quiet. But no, he said that, like, Riot went over the heads of the teams with this, and they weren't happy about it. And look, from their perspective, like, I. I agree. These guys are paying, like, 20 million euros to get into the league, and then Los Ratones gets in because they bring a lot of viewership in numbers, right? And they don't have to pay for that, even if it's just one split. Also, like, that's not being done on merit, one might say. Now, look, I think that they earned this spot with their play, right? So, like, before anyone pauses and starts typing, like, yeah. I mean, you look at the year that the Rats have had, I, like, they should be in there, right? But build the system to make that. Don't give them an auto bid because, like, now, I mean, I can sit here and be like, yeah, I mean, they are getting somewhat special and preferential treatment. And, I mean, I don't think that's wrong, right? Like, I didn't think it was wrong that this guy's got the guest slot. Even though they weren't the best team in NaCl that split, I thought that was the right call. I think that if you're going to have a tournament and get outside teams in, like, I think you'd be crazy not to invite Los for Tones, right? But what is the system and the incentive incentivization you're building for the teams, right? So I think that if you're a team in the league, you kind of have the right to be mad about that. And I think the other issue is that, I mean, look, the contract these guys signed, like, they don't have as much control over the league as they wish. So the league kind of gets the power to do this. And now we're gonna have, like, the league pushing up against the commissioner and what commissioner said publicly, because you already have owners coming out and saying, like, oh, they went over our heads with this. So it got really messy. And whether it's right or wrong, I'm very in the boat of what, like, the drum that Yamato Cannon's been beating as the drum I've been beating. Is that phrase through for the podcast? So far? But, yeah, I think Yamada is 100% right. Like, hey, if there's going to Be a head, but between the commissioners and the teams, like, is this worth it? Like that that damages trust in the long haul, even if it is a system that people like. And look, it's not only is it only for one split, I think something that not a lot of people are thinking about is whoever wins EMEA Masters, like, in theory, you're gonna have a whole list, some of the best players in EU that are outside of the lec, right? Like, what are the roster rules going into that tournament? Like, there's a world where those players could be jailed for split one because they need to stay on that team if there's like a three out of seven competing rule, which is pretty common, or they might be incentivized because they want to stick with their team and play. But like, I mean, ideally, those are the players you want to be sending to, you know, emea, right. In the main league, oec. So I think that that's like really concerning for me, just thinking, like, hey, what happens with the players on that team? I mean, do they end up getting jailed? Like, is there upward mobility for them? And again, that's. Those are the players that have earned it the most. I thought that was a really good point. That veteran brought up who is a player agent now, right? So he's a little bit quieter, but he used to be a loud voice behind the scenes. So, yeah, I mean, frankly, look, I think again, for fans, the theory of we're gonna do this is great, but I think like, having it be this late and jolting around teams and formats like this, I definitely think one of the learnings that I took from this past year, and I've talked about this a little bit on my Twitter recently, is I definitely put a higher value on consistent formats after seeing what was up this past year. Like when you have the biggest CO streamers, or like myself not knowing exactly what the format is from split to splitter, league to league. If I can't follow it, how can I expect a common fan to be able to follow it too? Right? So I, I, look, I know that this was a year of experimentation. I think that we definitely saw some wins this year, but I'd like to see more consistency moving forward because I think that the jolts have been really hard for fans to keep up with. [00:23:06] Speaker A: And I feel like to that point we've had so many years of experimentation. Like, it doesn't feel like we've had normalcy since, honestly, like 2021, maybe even like 2020. That was the last time that it felt like, oh, we didn't have a change from year to the next year in terms of any, like, type of playoff formats or, you know, regular season formats alone. [00:23:33] Speaker B: I think it was 19 to 20. And then obviously Covid hit or maybe because then 21, I think, was the combined schedule between spring and summer or combined record. [00:23:44] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I think it might have been. [00:23:46] Speaker B: So and so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt from 1920, but, yeah, uh, no, I. I mean, look, I. You're right. And again, I think, like, we've seen wins. I. I'm a fan of best of threes. I think fans are a fan of fearless. Like, these are wins. But it. It's gotten to the point where if it's hard to follow, that can be difficult. [00:24:04] Speaker A: And I don't think that it. Like, the. The benefits of changing it all the time is not seen. Like, I'm not seeing a reason that we're doing all these changes other than for the sake of change. [00:24:17] Speaker B: So, I mean, look, the commissioner of CB Law said that, like, the whole LTA system was done to downsize the competitive scene globally. Like, he went on the record saying that, which I. Look, that's 100% what it was, but the fact that he said it is kind of crazy. Right? So, yeah, I. I think ultimately, and I mean, look, even I find that to be a little bit of a win, too. Like, the fact we have five major regions now, I think is a lot easier to follow than the. I think it got up to 19 that were, like, you know, major four or not major regions that, like, fed into everything. And, like, they were all involved in worlds, like, legitimately, I. I think that this is going to be a better system in the long haul. But, man, I mean, there was a quote, a tweet that I quoted from Parth earlier today that I. I just very much agree with, which is, like, his problem with Riot isn't their ideas, but it's how often they make sweeping changes without any consideration for how it affects the livelihoods of so many people, and then how terribly some of them are executed because they lacked any level of foresight, planning time or resources. And I think that really speaks to what happened last year. And we're seeing more sweeping changes coming up. That has a big impact on people and including ourselves. Right. So that definitely resonated with me a lot. [00:25:29] Speaker A: Agreed. So here's to finding normalcy, finding a format that works. And that was one of the things that I remember when we had our internal meeting about LCs coming back and talking about the changes that are coming on the horizon. The only note I brought up was, look, whatever the changes are, whatever decisions are made, all I ask is that you're confident enough in them that you. You believe they're going to stay for 2027, whatever the goal is for 2026. If we're reverting back, I don't think that we should have these ideas of, oh, let's see if fans connect to this. No, we know what fans liked in the past. I think that if we're reverting the brand, let's do something that we are confident enough that we won't have to change it again. I don't think that this is a time that we should also experiment with something new in a format sense, because that just feels like too much at that point. But you can disagree with that. That was at least my. My take in my. My opinion on the kind of where things are going right now. But, yeah, so that is a big shake up for formats for N A for Brazil, for Europe. Expect more information about specifically NA format in this off season. But most likely that's gonna be more post worlds into even like early January. Knowing the typical riot schedule for kind of communicating that type of stuff. Yeah. Anything else that we missed? I know that there was one big scandal with KC as well. I didn't write it down just because I. I didn't know how much time we'd have to talk about it, but does anybody know the situation? I believe he's a KC coach that was. [00:27:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:11] Speaker A: Like, accused of all kinds of terrible stuff. [00:27:15] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, a lot of stuff came out. There was drama that like K Corp imported behind the scenes. And then this was like, even outside of that, where it was clear that someone on the coaching staff was not acting in a way that I would handle myself as a professional or a. Like a personal manner, especially towards women in the community. I don't. I don't have all the details for. [00:27:36] Speaker A: It, but I. Yeah, that's one of those ones that I unfortunately didn't actually like. [00:27:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:41] Speaker A: Oh, the story. I just saw a couple people tweet being like, yeah, this was my experience, like, similar. Yeah, Apples is a terrible person. And I'm like, I don't know what's going on. But that's. Yeah. Casey kind of bombed out and this was one of their coaches. I wondering how much that had to do with it. [00:27:57] Speaker B: The. The only anecdote that I have is that there was someone I was interacting with that covers Europe that was on this side of the pond. And when we saw K Corp, because they lost to Fnatic on what? Friday. Friday, that match, and then we saw kind of like the implosion afterwards, we're both like, oh, this has to be the culprit, right? And then, like, personal stuff came out outside of that. But safe to say, sadly, I wasn't too surprised because that person was in one, involved in one off season, and they started spilling a lot more details a lot faster than like what usually happens with off seasons without knowing me too well. So that was interesting. Yeah, that, that, that usually is like a red flag, right? Because I, I love having privileged conversations. Like, I, you know, oftentimes, like, we're able to have those like, as. You do too, Steve, because, like, we're trying to help each other out in the community. Like, like, especially as a tier 2 caster, I mean, I'll get asked like, hey, what do you think of this player? Right? And we're thinking about this. Like, we formed an opinion, but we're curious, like, what your educated opinion is, right? Not that those happen too much, but yeah, like, that's standard. And usually, like, there is a lot more trust and respect built up for that than just like ripping off the band aid like that, which is interesting. So that was the only experience I had there. And that was like three, four off seasons ago. But yeah, so that person is no longer with K Corp. [00:29:10] Speaker A: So not knowing the full story, all I can say is, everybody, handle yourself accordingly. Don't be an. [00:29:17] Speaker B: And shout out to the woman that came forward, by the way. Yeah, they were definitely right with that. And his apology sucked ass. He took no responsibility for it, so there's that too. [00:29:25] Speaker A: I did read that. And yeah, no, that was. That was some ass. But yeah, because I don't know personally much more about that story. Let us know in the community Discord what we're missing out on. If you've been following it and if you're not in the community, Discord, you can find a link in the description wherever you are listening along same, if we miss any other global news stories, we're recording this podcast episode a little later than typical, but that was all the big news that I was able to catch heading into this episode. Also, if you want to help support the podcast, you can do so through our Patreon or through our merch shop. That's League Rundown Shop. With that being said, it is time to get into the finals weekend coverage. We had two different regions, LTA and lec, with their finals concurrent with Each other, or at least like lec, leading into lta. We're gonna start on the LTA side of things. There are only two series to cover. And Cubby, I want to get your thoughts immediately because you were there at the arena with me. I got to cast the first day, which was awesome. And it did not go how many of us expected. I think on the desk it was only Emily who had a single game win for vks. But surprise, surprise, Vivocade Stars showed up and actually defeated LTA north, second seed. [00:30:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I. Look, I had a pretty unique experience there too, and I. I guess I can talk about this, like, a wee bit just because FlyQuest tweeted about it, but they made a tweet, which is like, I guess we scrimmed VKS too much, right? Which was kind of funny because on Friday I was at dinner with them and they were talking like, yeah, we actually think it might be a little bit closer than, like, what most people think tomorrow. Right. Like, they were giving VKS a real chance and VKS and came out and they played really well. So, yeah, I mean, it's obviously like the scrim meta in the last weekend can get really goofy because pretty much whoever awaits in grand finals just starts to scrim the team that they don't think is gonna get there. Right. You want to save a lot of your Strats. So, yeah, it was. I mean, yeah, community thought 100 thieves would go likewise, thought 100 thieves would face them in the finals. And VKS really stepped up and I. I think they played really well. I couldn't hear the arena as well, just given where I was at. It was like, pretty carpeted and kind of tucked away, but the audience was fun. I think VKS was fun when they won. I mean, Trymby wearing the cowboy hat was a lot of fun. So, yeah, I think that. And look, ultimately, with cross conference play, you hope that things are competitive, and I do think that the LTA south and now the CB LOA for next year, I thought they really proved throughout the year that they're competitive. So I'm kind of bummed. I hope that we still get some cross conference play. I really like that aspect of the changes that were actually made for this year, even if they weren't as popular for fans. So I hope we get more of it moving forward because I think that region definitely proved they can be competitive, even if they weren't the best team this weekend. [00:32:24] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. And I even heard that on Saturday morning they were playing fly Quest as a warm up. Not like technically a scrim block really, but they were playing games versus flyQuest before they went onto stage to face 100 Thieves. And even like Fly Quest members were like, wow. Like, yeah, we. We warmed up Vivocade for that win. Like they were in the the zone for it. Badger, what was it? What were your thoughts watching this series? Because this was, I think a big surprise for us as well. [00:32:57] Speaker C: I. Yeah, I mean, I was very surprised by it. I. I think. How do you say it's Mortius Morpheus Mortes. [00:33:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:06] Speaker C: I thought Mortez had like the series of a lifetime this week. Like he was playing so well and I think they had a really good read on what specifically Doklo wanted to do in these games. Like in the first couple of games, it looked like Dokla was just unable to play the game and get affected or have. Have any value or relatively low value coming out from his end. And like even the game four, like the I. It just felt like once I got to like game three, like you got the gentleman sweep game win, almost like 100 thieves came out and they had a really good idea of what they wanted to do. They looked decisive. They were playing the map really well. [00:33:49] Speaker A: And then Quid finally started playing the main carries. [00:33:52] Speaker C: Quid finally showed up and played the champions that I kind of expect from Quid. You know, with the Sylas coming out in that game and then the Akali Yone dive in game four just, oh, I. So close, man. So bad. It like at that point, like, you know, it's. You're behind a little bit, you're trying to get onto a back line that's got, you know, trundle stealing stats and Rice just inherently getting tanky and Yunara getting pocketed by Lulu just. It just looked pretty rough for them at that point. Dokla I felt so bad for because like he was destroying top lane in that Akali Gwen matchup. And then it just was kind of rough for him after they took a couple of bad fights and then they just kept trying to bash their head through that brick wall and it just wasn't working. And then, I mean, by the time they were able to actually get effective game plans going, it was just running. They just ran out of time at that point. Since Vivo Key had scaled up, Lulu. [00:34:55] Speaker A: Is very effective at dealing with either Akali or Yone. And unfortunately, Quid and Dokla never really found a fight where both of them were threatening the Ynara at the same time. It was only ever one of them on Ynara and then Lulu just Polymorphs you and Ults the yarn are like you're just dead. So but shout out to Dokla for almost keeping them in it. He gets a triple kill by the dragon. We look at the replay of the fight, we come out of it, it's barren and we're already fighting at the Baron. And hundred thieves get wiped and Vivocate win the game. And it was the most whiplash of oh, we're so back. [00:35:29] Speaker C: Oh no, no. [00:35:32] Speaker A: So that was a crazy way to end the series. But shout out to Vivocade and again Mortes, he got a quadra kill. Multiple triple kills. Really, really popped off. As a rookie player on that big of a stage, I was getting like Masu vibes. I was getting Danny vibes and just like he was in the zone. You know. Sometimes these young mechanically gifted ad carries just show up and if you let them play confidently, they will show you some magic. So I think Mateo's captured a little bit of that magic this weekend. And that led into then Sunday, the finals. It was Brazil versus N A. It was south versus North. It was, I think for the narrative sake, the best it could be. I know a lot of Hunter Thieves fans would disagree. They're like, oh no. The heist continuing would have been cool. But I think if, if the merger was gonna stick around. Ironically after game one it was announced it was not going to stick around. But it was like cool to see for the finale. For the only ever championships for the lta it was north versus South. And it was not a blowout either. It almost looked like it was gonna be. Cubby fly quests were just crushing. But Vivocade were at least able to pick up a game. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean look, I think Flyquest pretty clear end of the day they were the better team. But again vks I thought there was a pretty good chance they'd pick up a game. They played well enough against the thieves and they proved that they're a team where I think that especially at mid and AD carry, if they got a lead they could play. And the Jungler ended up playing well the game they won too. He was a beast against hundred thieves. Actually in the Pantheon game he played one of the better Pantheon games I've seen in a while. [00:37:09] Speaker A: He invaded river a lot. [00:37:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So no, I mean vks it's. That's definitely a staff where I actually gained. I mean Seal has made a lot of content in the past, so just been more public and I appreciate him putting himself out there, but I gained a Lot of respect for him because they ran a Tier two team that couldn't make it to compete for the slot just because of the rules that exist for. Like, you can't have a sister team fight for the slot. It's just the rules existed for the format this year. They ran it anyway and they won, which I think is very admirable when you know you're not gonna get to fight for the prize of playing for an LTA south slot in their case, despite earning it and. [00:37:49] Speaker A: Yeah, hard to convince players to play for you if. [00:37:52] Speaker B: Yeah, no, exactly. [00:37:52] Speaker A: Their way into the league also. [00:37:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, like, you're playing for an incentive structure that's worse than the rest of the teams you're going up against. They beat them all. I think that speaks to the group and the. The crew they have behind them. So. No, I mean, vks definitely proved that they're. I mean, they're a good team. So. Yeah, I, that, that was fun. I was watching with Busio's parents. I've interacted with quite a bit in the past just with him coming up through the Academy system and it was. It was a lot of fun because of course, Game four, like, he got his hands on his Bard and he popped off and yeah, that. That's pretty much what secured the series for FlyQuest because he was the MVP of the series and he had a very good series, but that Game four definitely locked down MVP for himself. [00:38:31] Speaker A: His Alistair, I thought, was also very good. He only died one time and it was because he was trying to get Quad out of a bad position. But then after that, it was just like, oh, my God, this is like exactly how you want your Alistair to play. Go find the big Engage Press R. Walk away with 100 health left. Still live. [00:38:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:38:52] Speaker A: But, yeah, Fly Quest, they were still the top of the region, the one, the only, the forever LTA champions. So shout out to Fly Quest. Nobody will ever be able to take that title away from them as LTA will be gone next year. That means fly quest, first seed, Vivocade, second seed and 100 Thieves third seed going into Worlds. What do we think about Vivocade at Worlds? Because now that we've actually seen enough tape of them and gotten to see specifically what they look like against the top teams in the North. I actually think this team can do some damage. Like if they go up against damage. [00:39:28] Speaker B: You know, like, they. [00:39:29] Speaker A: They could knock out an eu. [00:39:30] Speaker C: They could also. I think they have upset potential if they're like, round one draws pretty good. [00:39:35] Speaker B: But I. [00:39:36] Speaker C: You can't imagine that, like, if you are like a Hanwa or. [00:39:42] Speaker A: No, no, no, no. But, but you're. [00:39:44] Speaker C: You're chomping at the bits for a team like that. [00:39:46] Speaker A: But, like, I, I don't think they're gonna go 03 out of Swiss. Like, I. Based on how Vivocade was playing, I would be surprised if they went 03. I think they could beat Fnatic. I think they could beat 100 thieves again. [00:39:57] Speaker B: I think they could beat MCOI any given day. [00:40:02] Speaker A: I don't know enough about the LCP team, but I imagine that they're going to be like, within striking distance as well. So, like, if Vivocade go oh, three, I'd be surprised. I actually think that they could. They. They should be able to pick up a win. Do they make it out to knockouts? Probably not. Like, I think that's way too high. [00:40:17] Speaker B: That. That'd be shocking, right? Like, that'd be shocking. They'd be like. I think. [00:40:21] Speaker C: I think they would be one of. They could easily just be one of the, like, one in three teams out. [00:40:26] Speaker A: At Worlds, but it would, it would mark, I believe, the first time, because last year Brazil made it into Swiss for the first time. They had never made it out of play ins. And then I don't think they picked up a game. Right. Didn't they just get, like, beat down?03. [00:40:41] Speaker B: They got back. [00:40:42] Speaker A: Maybe they got a game, but not a series. [00:40:43] Speaker B: No, they got, they got baptized. Yeah. [00:40:45] Speaker A: So I think this could be a big moment for Brazil where that for the first time, not only do they back to back, make it into the Swiss stage, obviously there's no, like, plans that they're playing through this time, but the bigger thing is that they pick up a series win. I think that that's realistic for them to do this year. [00:40:59] Speaker B: I don't think they're gonna win a series. I mean, look, the first two rounds are best of ones, so you never know, I guess, with. With that logic. But I would be shocked if they were even competing to go to quarterfinals, you know. Oh, like have that best of three. I. I think that would require them. [00:41:16] Speaker A: To win two best of threes. [00:41:17] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's pretty clear they're like a bottom three, bottom four team here, so I, I have a hard time putting them outside of that. [00:41:25] Speaker A: Okay, fair enough. We'll just wait and see. But that is lta. Any final thoughts from either of you on lta and how things kind of shook out from this past weekend or kind of looking forward to Worlds either way? [00:41:39] Speaker C: I mean. Yeah, I'm gonna start my prep this weekend for like going through the teams and kind of doing a little bit deeper of dives so I can be prepared for it. I'm. I, I love this time of year, honestly, just, it's crazy to watch all the games again just to try and get an idea. It's always fun time. [00:41:57] Speaker A: We already next week have to do the world's primer, which is just crazy to think about. Like, we have to do our worlds prep episode where we talk about all the teams. So we'll have some other guests. Mikko might be joining us to talk more lck with you, Badger. So that way you have somebody to. You don't have to carry it all yourself. We'll try and get somebody from EU to also represent, maybe somebody from lcp, you know, all around just to talk about the regions and the team. If not, we'll be doing our own research as well to make sure that we bring the stories in. But with that being said, that is LTA North Fun Finals weekend. It was my first time being on the broadcast. I got to cast the Hundred Thieves of Evocade and then be on desk as well as opening ceremonies both days. So that was a lot of fun. And in general, we just got back into a stadium, which it had been a long time. Last year there was a YouTube arena. I didn't get to go to that one, unfortunately, the YouTube theater. I guess I had a different Yu Gi oh show. [00:42:48] Speaker B: That was a cool venue. [00:42:50] Speaker A: I hear it was cool. But I. I'm still happy that we got out of California because that's still basically LA that we were in last year. And I'm happy that we. We got out and got to see people. There were so many people that came up and said, this is my first event. I've never been to one before. And I'm like, that's awesome. That's the purpose of road shows. [00:43:07] Speaker B: The crowd was awesome. The Fan fest was awesome too. I mean, yeah, it was stocked full. So shout out to everyone that went and just had a great time. As a fan, I. I will always say that if you go to a riot roadshow, you are going to get your money's worth. All the teams that go in booth really make sure that, like, everyone goes and has a great time. So I really hope that everyone had that experience. [00:43:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Did you get to see the Blue Otter booth at all? There was. [00:43:30] Speaker B: I did. [00:43:31] Speaker A: I ran a giveaway team or tier two team. [00:43:33] Speaker B: I was. [00:43:34] Speaker A: That's so cool. [00:43:35] Speaker B: I did giveaways with Citadel And Blue Otter. And I know from talking with Citadel there that they. They did well in sales, but they said so that was really good. Like, they're like, they were pretty happy with what they sold. So that was a big one. [00:43:47] Speaker A: That's so cool. And I just. I've never seen anything like that. Obviously, Blue Otter is the team partnered with Team Liquid, and so that was also. Team Liquid didn't have, like, their own dedicated booth, I don't believe. So they, like, kind of doubled up with Blue Otter on their booth and had, like, Yuji hanging out there on Sunday. And we're kind of, like, helping them out there, but still, just the fact that a Tier 2 or multiple Tier 2 organizations set up booths at the finals, I think that's so cool. I even heard Blue Otter because they. They have their own tournaments and they have their multiple different tiered teams. They're basically recruiting, so they're handing out flyers like, hey, like, yeah, what rank are you Here? Try out for the team. Because then you join the Gold team for Blue Water. You play in the gold leagues, and then you're part of the team and you cheer for them then in tier two. And I'm like, that's such a cool, like, thing. I just. I love that that exists. Imagine if that team at any point gets promoted to LCs and takes that guest spot. You can be a part of the team at the gold or plat or emerald level of a team that is in the league. Imagine like, if a TSM had, you know, community gold teams that they. You signed up for, you competed for, you got on, and then you entered tournaments. Like, that's kind of what it is. Obviously not as popular as tsm, but point stands. It's just, like, a really cool thing that they're doing. So shout out to them. But, yeah, that was LTA finals. Now, let's hop across the pond, because we also got to talk about LEC finals. They were happening at the same time. Finally, for the first time, we actually overlapped, like, the same part of our format with lec. It was so weird this entire year having to say, like, week three of LTA and week two of lec, but it was just finals for both. And there were three series that happened this weekend. So, Badger, give me the lowdown of what happened Friday, Saturday, and then Sunday before we get into the individual games. [00:45:45] Speaker C: Yeah, so we had. There were three series. It was KC versus Fnatic on Friday. Winner of that plays Koi on Saturday. Winner of Koi and the winner of the first series played G2 on Sunday. So since we already talked about it, Fnatic beat KC3 1. [00:46:08] Speaker B: Yep. [00:46:08] Speaker C: In the first series. I don't want to say it was not particularly close, but it wasn't close. It was not close. Casey got Molly whopped. [00:46:20] Speaker B: It looks like a shell themselves. [00:46:22] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, they, they have severely fallen off from where they were in the beginning of the season where we thought that Casey could potentially be the best team in Europe and finally dethroned G2. [00:46:35] Speaker A: And yeah, and on top of that, it wasn't just that. I, I agree they fell off, but Fnatic actually looked like they were playing on the same page. Oscar Renan, first of all, just bodied Khanna. Like that was a crazy matchup. Everybody was thinking Connor was going to do really well, like he should be favored in this matchup. Oscar Renin showed up and performed very well and Fnatic played around that much better than they had in the past. Typically Fnatic, it felt like individually in lanes they would just hand stiff opponents. Especially in group B which was like the far weaker group of the two in lec. They just were better in lane than their opponents and would get leads and then win games. This time it felt like they were still doing that, but more so they were, you know, making correct decisions around who had the most gold played to them. A lot of times it was Oscar Redden upset, still had his pop up performances. Poby, I think looked a little more stable and on the same page as the rest of the team as well. [00:47:30] Speaker C: I, I was gonna say that. I think that. I think the thing with this is, is this is the first time that Poby actually looked comfortable playing with the rest of the team. [00:47:38] Speaker B: Well, I think that Poby had a much tougher series the next day and I do think that that was a bit of. Well, yeah, a little bit of mid diff coming in. [00:47:50] Speaker A: So let's just talk about that next day then because I think yeah, Friday was great for Fnatic, but we didn't see the same version of Fanatic on Saturdays. [00:47:57] Speaker C: I mean, I will say, I will say still tried his best like this. This, this kid is good. I think Kalist, he's very good. Going into the future is like going to be contending for best AD carry in Europe and potentially best AD carry in the west for years to come. As long as he can keep up this form and get better, he is. [00:48:18] Speaker A: Still the future of the lec. And unfortunately, I think Vladi, we lost a little confidence. I lost a little confidence in him based on his performance there, he did not really step. [00:48:27] Speaker B: I, I will, I will give him a bit of a caveat and say that I think it was pretty clear that it. There were more issues going on than just Vladi and that individual report, like performance. Right. I think it definitely speaks to K Corp about like how hard they were carried by Khanna because he didn't have a good day and they really struggled when he wasn't on. Right. But no, I mean, I think it, I find it very funny that like every offseason there's a report that like G2 is trying to go after Clist. It was like, yeah, if you have half a brain over there. I think everyone should go after Clist. [00:48:57] Speaker C: Everyone, every. All 10 teams should be going. [00:48:59] Speaker B: Yeah, like, I mean that guy is as, he's as good, if not better than advertised. [00:49:03] Speaker C: So there's, there's teams in N A that probably were also going for clist, but they won't say that publicly because, you know, I mean, they should stay in Europe. [00:49:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean they should. So. Yeah. But no, I, I don't think K Corp, I mean, given that guy is French, I don't think K Corp's ever letting go of him. Him if possible. So. No, I mean, regardless, I'm, I am bomb that KCOR fell apart because I definitely like had some pros slash positives throughout the year. Close being one of them, but definitely feel like I know that fnatic drops at McOil McWay definitely. Still, there's a lot of credit and I'm excited to see them on the world stage again. I think it's pretty crazy that El Yoya has made five worlds straight from when he started his rookie year. That's really impressive to me, especially given that like, I mean he's been the consistent part of the like all those teams and a lot of those teams have been pretty different. [00:49:53] Speaker C: Oh yeah. [00:49:53] Speaker B: And he's always been a good performer and I, I don't know, I just think that's like kind of a swept on stat, like how consistent or Saudi is, especially in a region that has like so much turmoil and turnover with players and staff. That Elio has been able to take five teams international row is crazy. [00:50:08] Speaker A: He won, I believe he got MVP of finals in split two and yeah, I mean he's had a fantastic year. [00:50:18] Speaker B: I should say. Five world straight. Sorry I said five and Right. Yeah. Five world strip. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. [00:50:23] Speaker A: But yeah, so I mean Saturday was. I think I did not expect Fnatic to win Friday and I didn't know what to expect from them. Going in on Saturday, they got the one win with like the Orianna Nocturne combo plus Orin, which I thought was really fun. I. I want to see more Orn. Personally, I actually think this champ is really good in certain compositions and like you have paranoia. Turn the lights off and then the call the Forge God plus Shockwave plus the Rakan quickness. Like, man, it was just really hard for McOida to deal with the engage of Fnatic, but then McOid was able to pick it back up. They played tanks on the top lane themselves for the rest of it. With Mages mid, we still see Zigs Mid being very popular in EU and across the world. Naomi, it's really still only APA that's like fully pulling it out. But I think it's cool that like pretty much every mid laner in EU at some point is like, nope, Ziggs is one of the guys we need to pick up. And then Maokai support in Game four for mkoi with the Naafiri Jungle. So they kind of switch things up on Fnatic in a cool way there. But yeah, I think at the end of the day I still don't know where I rank McOH's chances at Worlds. Just because hands wise, I don't think that Merwin, I love him to death. I love his champool. I don't know if he's gonna be able to hang with the top laners. I don't know if Supa and Alvaro are gonna be able to hang with the bot laners as well. I know that I've said in the past that I've been disrespecting the hell out of Supa. I still think he's like, sometimes there's brilliant team fights that he pulls off and sometimes I'm just like, what the. What was his trading pattern? What are we doing? [00:52:04] Speaker B: I'm very high on Alvaro over there. I think Alvaro's a very strong support actually. I. So I didn't watch a lot of EU tape this year and I mean, I don't know what I'm doing for Waltz. Exactly. We have responsibilities for the. [00:52:17] Speaker A: Probably watch partying with me. [00:52:19] Speaker B: That's a degenerate hour. But maybe I'm handling the LT north promotion tournament coming up this upcoming week. So my focus is there right now. But when I was prepping for msi, a lot of the EU casters were speaking very highly of Alvaro and I was really on board. I. I thought that he was A really strong support over there and saw a lot of good snap, engage angles and played very well. So I really hope he brings his best foot forward for Worlds too. I just think that with mcoi, I think you're kind of getting at it, Steve. Like, they're a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde team for me. Like, some days you can get Mirwen that's very competitive, and a Jojo that's like, you know, smashing and not making mistakes and other maps, it's like, all right, JoJo, like, we had an off map, right? So I think sometimes they have too many pieces that, like, it takes them firing at all cylinders where I think they can be a good team. They've proven throughout the year they, they can beat G2 even if they aren't the favorites. And G2, you know, really stepped up to get back to that class that they're in where we expect them to win. But again, I mean, the fact that MCOI were able to take them down and, and prove that they are competitive as a second team, I thought was really good for the region over there this year, and that group proved it. So excited to see JoJo and them go international again and then all of. [00:53:28] Speaker A: That hope of, oh, teams can step up. It's not going to be a one team region. MKWay fanatic, even Fnatic, you know, like, having a surprise win in their world's qualification match. All those narratives kind of died by the time we hit Sunday Badger, because holy shit. Yeah, you know, got a body that goi. [00:53:47] Speaker C: Yeah, we thought, oh, you know, this is gonna be a great series. G2. Koi is starting to become like, one of the potentially new, like, generation El Classicos. Like, oh, yeah, like, this will be great. [00:53:59] Speaker B: It. [00:53:59] Speaker C: It was. It was not great. It was. It was a shellacking. [00:54:04] Speaker A: Yep. Skewmond and Labrov in particular, two of the players with the biggest magnifying glass on them. Obviously, jungle and support were the big changes for G2. I think they both had fantastic performances in this finals and, like, really silence a lot of the doubters, a lot of the critics, myself included. I mean, I. I was very critical in split one and split two of how they had looked like Skewmont. If he had a bad game, Lebrov would usually also have a bad game and then they both look bad. Whereas if Skewmont has a good game, then Lebrov doesn't in as much following up on him and then they do well. But it felt like it was all on Skewmont. Like, can he Perform. He definitely performed in. In this finals. [00:54:44] Speaker B: Yeah, Look, I think that I really favored FlyQuest over G2 and MSI because I felt like the Jungle support duo was just so, like, much significantly better than what G2 had. And the G2 staff deserves a ton of credit. I think that it was very clear that labrov and Skiman were the two weak links of that team, and they really leveled up this past split. And BB kind of returned to form too, which is great because BB is someone that I think historically has proved that, you know, when BB's on, he can compete with the best of them with his pool. And I. I really feel like Bibi somewhat returned to form. I still don't think he's performing quite as well as he was a year or two years ago, but that's okay. You know, I. They didn't need his peak to win, and I think that's something a lot of fans discredit, is that league is oftentimes about peaking at the right time. So we'll see if G2 can peak at the right time coming up here. Yeah. [00:55:42] Speaker A: Broken Blade played three carry champions in a row. Happy that you highlighted that. And he has been playing a lot of carries in general. The set, the kled, you know, like, things that I love. [00:55:52] Speaker B: The quad. [00:55:52] Speaker A: Yeah, we see like a set played by Bwipo and KLED was played by Photon, I think. Yeah, Photon played it. [00:55:59] Speaker B: I'm on the quad train, by the way. I. I think there are, like, actually some angles where Klein's. Yeah, his items are good. I think there are some angles where Cloud can be really strong because if you get a winning matchup for him, you just get to play so fast because you. You can take the wave with Hydra and then you just get to go make a play. And the passive being instant to get the remount was a huge part of his power. So him getting that was a really, really, really big deal. [00:56:27] Speaker A: I just love that he played it into Scion. So if Cyan alts, then you just alt or Cyan's ulting. It's like everyone's running in. [00:56:34] Speaker C: Yep. [00:56:35] Speaker A: It was a really fun matchup for that. [00:56:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:39] Speaker A: Also, I say played three carries in a row. I guess it is important to note that he built full Tank on Rek'. Sai. That's something that we've been seeing come up to. If you don't go for, like, any ad break items, you just go full tank as Rek's eye. And, like, you can never die. Like, k' Sante is just never killing You. [00:56:52] Speaker B: Your E is very good too, if you're able to rotate your E out because it's true damage at full. Full stacks. It's. It's pretty good. I. I'm. I'm kind of on the Rex I train. The shy was playing it to make sure that they got through. It's. [00:57:06] Speaker A: Was he also building full tank on it? [00:57:08] Speaker B: Yes. No, same build. Same. Same build, same play. You. You can go hydro, but I think the full tank build the move. Yeah. [00:57:14] Speaker A: I had seen Hydra in the past in lec, so that's why I was like, he did something different this time. But I guess, yeah, both builds have their place. [00:57:22] Speaker B: Yeah. If you're against a low range ad, it's. You can be a giant pest. [00:57:29] Speaker A: All right. Well, yeah, but I mean, this kind of is what inspired the name of this episode. One team regions because it was fly quest, they didn't 30 their finals, but they did look dominant. And then G2, 30 their finals, they looked dominant. So both regions, it really feels like the. The top team is a tier above, if not two tiers above the competition from the region. Now, Cubby, you kind of touched on this badge. I want to get your thoughts. Who do you think is better right now? Who convinced you more of their form going into Worlds, G2 or FlyQuest? [00:58:01] Speaker C: Ooh. I mean, I still think G2 just as a whole, I think based on what they showed, I mean, they. They had cleaner games than like. I mean, it was a sweep. It was. I want to believe in FlyQuest, but it's like really hard. Like, I don't know. I haven't really dove in enough to be able to compare the two at this point, but I think they're kind of relatively on the same power scale. I think both of these teams, since we are in the format where we aren't going to have four LPL and four LCK teams at Worlds, I think both of them have a really good shot of making it out of the group, just depending on how the draw goes. [00:58:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, G2 always gets unlucky. So. [00:58:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, they faced. Na, man, it sucks. [00:58:51] Speaker C: Yeah, you're right. But like, I mean, there is that extra if. Considering if. I mean, if the draws go well, lpl, ltk get the seven teams that they would have in there, especially after the play in, if they get their teams out, then, like, there's that one spot left. Who's going to get that one spot between the rest of the teams? And I just think, like, it's probably going to come down to like, realistically speaking, that last spot, that eighth spot is going to come down to these two teams. [00:59:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:21] Speaker A: Maybe Flying Oysters could be in there also. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:59:24] Speaker C: Flying Oysters, obviously. No, but I think if they were to play right now, I think the way that G2 plays with creating chaos and just making it scrappy around the map, I think that FlyQuest can handle it. But if it just goes wrong, especially in a best of one or best of three, depending on when they would meet them in the, like the group stage, it would be. I think I would go G2 at the moment, but that might change the next week and a half. [00:59:57] Speaker A: I would have been way more confident in Fly if not for how G2 won. Skewmond gapped Elio, which was not how I thought G2 was gonna win, in my opinion. Is the best jungler in EU right now. And the fact that SKU Mod was able to look that good against him now is like, well. Inspired is the best jungler in the West. I don't know if this is the version of SKU Mon that we get in a G2 versus FlyQuest matchup at World. I don't know how much Inspired actually gaps Skew Mod. Like, it's actually gonna be much closer. So then I think it comes more down to support. Like, I think Busio just has to play the map better than lebrov and that's how we could win. So I still favor FlyQuest, but I think it's close. Cubby, it sounds like you got a thought though. [01:00:39] Speaker B: I'm. I'm very Fly Quest favorite still. I. I think. [01:00:41] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [01:00:42] Speaker B: I think FlyQuest 2 best players match up against G2's 2 worst players still and inspired in Busio vs Human and Labrov, regardless of the form they had in finals. And look, I'll give them a lot of credit. You know, they played very well and G2 definitely helped level them up. But I mean, Inspired is the best player in the West. I think Busio is the second best player in the west. And I will take both those two and FlyQuest in that match until G2 proves they can beat them. If we do get that. But look, I think there's a real world where flyQuest NG2, depending on how they look at the start of the tournament, right, Might be able to compete to get out. I know that, you know, we're projecting LCK and LPL teams to make up the majority of quarterfinals. I think that that's likely. But I think the LPL teams are imperfect and hle can be streaky. KT is a little bit inconsistent. Gen G is a nightmare. I. I sincerely think that. I mean it kind of depends on draws, but I'd be a little bit surprised if we don't have an lck like four LCK teams make it out. I think KT is hands down the most beatable. I think that three teams are gonna make it out for sure though with T1. Whereas for LPL, like AL showed some real holes this last split. BLG for me is the all brawn, no brains team still. And the Brains got a little bit better with Shadow, but we'll see which jungler they're gonna rock. I assume it's gonna be Shadow, but they're kind of doing the Bengi Blank situation where they threw up BAE Schwan in the to open the first couple of best dubs and then Shadow came in and played better. And we don't know if that's because of the download or just how it works or Shadow just being better straight up. Right. And that. But I, I really feel like Top AL and BLG are all more beatable than the LCK teams outside of maybe blg where I'd give them the. The hands edge over KT significantly. Right. And AL can get there. But they did not play as well this split as they did in the past. But Tarzan is still a terrorist on that team. So. Yeah, I, I think there is a world where FlyQuest and G2 could maybe see quarters. I. I really do. But I mean the other team that we haven't talked about that I think is going to be a real threat for quarters is actually the Flying Oysters. So. Yeah, that, that's also something that, you know, I think they definitely deserve a little bit more credit and talk. And I know we don't follow the LCP nearly as much between the three of us and on here, but they're a team that's proven they can compete globally. And they're back. Uh, they've been competing globally all year so uh, excited to see them back. I think tournaments more fun when they're involved and we'll see what they can do. Yeah. [01:03:11] Speaker A: LCP kicked out Team Liquid at first stand. [01:03:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:14] Speaker A: So we, we do not have a great record. [01:03:17] Speaker B: No. We don't want goes back to last year too. Yeah. [01:03:20] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think I, I still believe in FlyQuest, but I don't think it's like, oh, they're a shoe in to make quarterfinals. I think that there's a lot of competition that they have to beat and they are still NA's best shot. G2 is still EU's best shot. It does still feel like one team regions for both of them in terms of teams that can make it out of the Swiss stage. Unless some, like, crazy miracle draw happens and Fnatic is able to do it. But could you imagine a world where Fnatic gets to play against T1? I hope we get that. I hope we get Poby versus Faker. Man, that would be so good. Oh, we need to see that. We need to see that bad. But yeah, that's our thoughts. Any. Any final thoughts? Because we're gonna have our world's primer next week. Cubby, I don't know if you're gonna be on it. So any final thoughts that you have about Worlds, what you're excited for, big storylines that you're gonna follow? [01:04:10] Speaker B: Oh, man, I. I think that the patch is gonna be very interesting. Again, I'm. I'm just not there yet because I'm focused on the LTA promotion coming up. Yeah. [01:04:24] Speaker C: Who do you have in LTA promotion? [01:04:26] Speaker B: I. I hope it's DSG versus lg and then from there we'll kind of see how they play in the tournament. But I. I would really like it to be DEOs versus IDO, personally, because I think highly of those two coaches from tier two. For a long time, Mizel has been. [01:04:39] Speaker A: Very confident about LG and thinking that they will beat dsg. Do you agree? [01:04:45] Speaker B: No, I think it's going to be a lot closer than where he's at. And I know that the tape for the year says lg, but TSG has earned a lot of kudos behind the scenes because they've been. I mean, they were in this grim circle with FlyQuest Hunter, Thieves and VKS. Right? Because they're still an active team and those teams like. And also, I mean, they took C9 to 5 legitimately. And I thought that DSG and IDO threw some really nice drafts and angles out there. So there's gonna be a different patch and a different look. I'm curious they can find some of those. Again, Rahel is a good player there. There is like, I. I think Rahel was the best player that's going to be in the tournament. [01:05:25] Speaker A: And DSG were in the hyperbolic Time Chamber because come playoffs time, no other LTA north team was still screaming unless they were in playoffs. D.C. was still screaming because they were preparing for this tournament. [01:05:38] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:05:39] Speaker A: They actually played. They scrimmed, FlyQuest 100 Thieves, Vivo K. They scrimmed everybody. So they, they got a lot of experience. Now LG LG is Luminosity Gaming for anybody who doesn't follow the Tier two. And they got a lot of like LCS alumni we called them Insanity Tactical. [01:05:55] Speaker B: Zazel, we called the LTA rejects lovingly. But it's very honest because again, like again, four to five of those guys have experience. Yeah, yeah. Like they have experience in Tier one majority. And then the last stints in Tier two they've had, they've won every split. [01:06:11] Speaker A: Has Tomio not played in Tier one? I thought he had. [01:06:13] Speaker B: No, he did briefly. But the rest, the rest of the majority was Tier one, whereas him, that's not the case. But the last four splits that fake God Zazel and Tomio have played in Tier two, they've won. So yeah, I mean it's, it's kind of fun to get to fight for their own spot, but I, I assume it's going to come down to those two teams and then we're gonna have to see what happens. [01:06:40] Speaker A: Well, thank you for highlighting that, Cubby. Where can people watch the action if they want to follow the promotion? [01:06:46] Speaker B: That's a great question. [01:06:47] Speaker A: Where can they find it? [01:06:48] Speaker B: I would follow the LTA North Twitter. I will say that this is officially the LTA promotion tournament for the LCS for 2026, so I'm gonna have to get used to that verbiage a little bit. But follow the LTA North Twitter, follow, watch nacl and I will be co streaming it as well on Twitch tv Cubby xx, which is also my Twitter, if you guys want to follow me there. So the days I'm not broadcasting, I'll be there. I think Parth is also co streaming or if it's familiar, RAZ will be co streaming. It'll get some good coverage and I think, I mean Look, I like FlyQuest. It was kind of fun. Like, you know, they bought pretty highly of dsg, but they're like, hey, you know, it's a do or die match. And they're like, yeah, we're gonna watch from Worlds, man. He's like, there are no higher stakes games to play. You're playing for your life. And that's very honest. So if you want to, you know, see guys that are under a lot of pressure and see if they can perform, I think that this is the most pressure you can play under promotional relegation game. So it's gonna be fun to see who can step up and deliver. [01:07:44] Speaker A: And promo relegation is officially back. First time in many years that we've had a relegation tournament happen, so that alone makes things very exciting. And thanks, Cubby, for coming on. Dude, it was awesome hearing your thoughts on lta, getting your experience because again, you were there live. So happy that we're able to get your thoughts on that and also some of your thoughts on LPL LCK teams you already plugged where people can find you. So everybody go give Cubby a follow. Check out his Twitch channel as well. He does a lot of co streams, VOD reviews, all kinds of fun League of Legends content. And Badger, thank you as well for coming on. I feel like you're the most stable one. There was such a long time where you were no longer interested. [01:08:21] Speaker C: I was on the opposite schedule of you guys and I wasn't able to make it. [01:08:25] Speaker A: And now you're the rock of the of the podcast. So thank you for coming on as well. And thank you viewers for listening. Badger, if. If people wanted to, if they felt so inclined, they wanted to help support the pod, how many stars would you recommend they give to the podcast? [01:08:38] Speaker C: I didn't think of this. [01:08:39] Speaker B: Three for the amount of members we had, right? [01:08:41] Speaker A: No, no, he doesn't know the bit. He doesn't understand. [01:08:46] Speaker B: Well, what is it? [01:08:47] Speaker A: Okay, so wait. Three for the number of podcasters on this episode, plus one more star for each different conference represented in LTA finals, which was north and south. That's two. So three plus two. That's five. Okay, if you could leave us five. [01:09:02] Speaker C: Star review, the mental gymnastics are real. [01:09:04] Speaker A: That would be awesome. Helps us get noticed and grow. As Cubby had already pointed out, we are now the biggest outside of the dive, of course. The dive's definitely the biggest. But now we're the other biggest third party League of Legends podcast out there. So let's make that number go up even higher. Thanks so much for listening, everybody, and we love you and we'll see you next time. [01:09:27] Speaker B: Bye. [01:09:27] Speaker A: Bye, everyone. [01:09:28] Speaker B: Bye. [01:09:46] Speaker A: Sam. Sa.