League Rundown - Episode 530: Get ready to learn Chinese and or Korean buddy

[00:00:31] Speaker A: At the table with messiah tanking it up. [00:00:34] Speaker B: I do not believe he just leaves. [00:00:42] Speaker C: I cannot understand this game. Unicorns of love, it wasn't you against the nexus. [00:01:06] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to episode 530 of the League rundown. This is your world's preview, Lck and Lpl edition. And this episode is lovingly entitled get ready to learn Chinese and or Korean, buddy. I am your host, Kangas, and I am joined by four esteemed co hosts and a couple of guests included in that bundle up. First, we got mister Mazelle pl. [00:01:32] Speaker D: Holy cow. I get to go first this time. It's a shocker. Uh, yeah. Excited to talk about some of the, uh, LPl representatives. It's gonna be a good time. [00:01:39] Speaker B: Absolutely. Is this your first time going first it is. [00:01:42] Speaker A: Wow. [00:01:43] Speaker D: Well, happy to have seniority, baby. [00:01:45] Speaker A: Let's go. [00:01:46] Speaker B: You're probably close to a year on the pod at this point, right? [00:01:49] Speaker D: Yeah, I think a little bit, if. [00:01:50] Speaker B: Not past a year. Yeah. All right, cool. Well, happy that we can, uh, chat some air, pick your brain while we chat some lpl today. Uh, but we also have joining us, we got a. The big hawk. [00:02:02] Speaker C: The big hawk. I feel like a lot of the times when you introduce me, it's like, in some way an insult. So I'll take the big hawk. [00:02:08] Speaker E: Yeah. [00:02:08] Speaker C: We're finally back. [00:02:10] Speaker D: Hawk tua. [00:02:11] Speaker A: Dammit. [00:02:12] Speaker B: That's a good one. [00:02:13] Speaker D: There it is. [00:02:13] Speaker B: Wait, how have I not thought about that one yet? [00:02:15] Speaker C: How have you not thought about that? What? [00:02:18] Speaker B: I'm really sad, actually. Okay, well, anyway, yeah. [00:02:21] Speaker C: I've heard so many hawk tua jokes over the last, like, three weeks. [00:02:25] Speaker D: Like, it's actually on their official broadcast. [00:02:27] Speaker E: Are you going on? [00:02:28] Speaker A: You did? [00:02:28] Speaker E: Are you going in the talk to. [00:02:29] Speaker A: A podcast anytime soon? [00:02:31] Speaker E: Dude, I should. [00:02:32] Speaker C: Oh, my God. That's my calling. [00:02:35] Speaker E: The funniest thing I saw about that was that someone teased that she would be interviewing Jimmy Carter, which I found very funny. [00:02:42] Speaker B: That is what an episode that would be. You just heard his voice. By the way, we also have guest coming on returning to the pod. Long time friend, Cubby. Cubby. Do you watch that podcast or listen to that podcast? The talk to a one? [00:02:55] Speaker E: I don't want to admit that information. [00:02:57] Speaker D: No, you're incriminating yourself with that. [00:03:00] Speaker E: I think we got our answer. No, no, no. I'm all for capitalism, let's put it that way. [00:03:07] Speaker B: You know, I get that bag. [00:03:09] Speaker E: She seems somewhat wholesome. I don't want to hate, but, you know, it may or may not say something about our culture, so we'll put it that way too. [00:03:17] Speaker B: Oh, it absolutely does. But the final co host joining us for today's episode for the first time on the pod. We've been trying to get them on for quite a while and happy that we can, right before worlds comes on to help talk more about the international teams, we have the one, the only, Jamara. [00:03:33] Speaker A: Hi. Oh, my God. I got the cool, like, low voice entrance as well. Sick. Yeah. I made the treacherous journey across the Atlantic via discord to be here on the podcast. [00:03:46] Speaker E: A whole hundred. [00:03:47] Speaker B: I thought you were just going to gaslight our audience to see you there. [00:03:52] Speaker D: Make the trip sometimes. [00:03:53] Speaker A: Sometimes? Yeah. Every, like, when's the last time that. [00:03:56] Speaker B: You were in the States? [00:03:58] Speaker A: Uh, gosh, November last year, which is. I'll probably be in the states November, like, after worlds as well, for a couple of weeks again. [00:04:07] Speaker E: I hope to God la. [00:04:08] Speaker B: Let me know. [00:04:08] Speaker E: I. I hope for your sake it's not LA. [00:04:10] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's. It's not. Thankfully. Yeah. To this. This Texas. I, uh. [00:04:15] Speaker E: Oh, good for you. [00:04:17] Speaker A: On the good old great plains of the great south. [00:04:22] Speaker E: Good for you. That's nice. [00:04:24] Speaker C: I will say, missed opportunity to say that you made the trek across the Atlanta and be like, okay, Steve Lennon, I'm outside, like, yeah, true. [00:04:34] Speaker B: Live in our studio bedroom, Jamada. Well, either way, happy to have you on because you were covering LPL. You were at LPl finals. We got to get kind of your thoughts on how that event went and specifically pick your brain on how lpl looks like going into world. So we have two sets of correspondence. I will, of course, be the delegate in the middle, the judge to determine who wins the arguments. We have official team names that I came up with right before we went live. Team LCK will be Cubby and hawk, aka hubby, not cock. I'm not going to go with the dirty one. They're team hubby. And then we also have team LPL being Jamada and Mazelle, who are, of course, Giselle. So there we go. [00:05:21] Speaker D: That's the one you went for. Okay. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Each team will be talking about what the regions look like going in kind of power level expectations for the regions so that you can have accurate pick ems going into worlds, because pickums are live right now. [00:05:35] Speaker E: You know what I realized with these names? Kangas. [00:05:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:38] Speaker E: Hubby and Giselle were like Tom Brady and they're like Gisele, except they divorced and they're definitely, oh, my great. We're gonna take the short end of the stick. [00:05:46] Speaker D: It works. [00:05:48] Speaker E: We're working with a lot less info than our LPL. Experts. So the fact that this is, you know, set up as a debate, I don't like my chances. [00:05:54] Speaker C: I don't think we will be the Tom Brady of this discussion. [00:05:58] Speaker A: I don't think. [00:05:59] Speaker E: I mean, I heard his first weekend broadcast. We might be, but, you know. [00:06:02] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:06:04] Speaker E: All right. Sorry, Tom. [00:06:09] Speaker B: So, Lisa, we could hear your thoughts, at least on the LCK teams going in, but I do think we'll hear a lot of LPL bias on this episode, given the folks that we do have on. But before we get into all that breakdown, we got some global news to cover. So up first, I already mentioned worlds. Let's give a quick rundown. I'm going to rapid fire through all the teams because we have every team that will be at the world championships this year. From LCk Hotmail, life esports Gen g d Kia and T 1d. Kia and t one were the last two that we were not aware of as of last week's episode. And now we do know the last two teams there. Lpl. It's, of course, still Billy. Billy gaming top esports LNg and Weibo from Emea. It's g two fanatic mad Lions, Koi from LCS, Quest, Tl 100 thieves from Asian Pacific region, PSG Tallon Fuquoka, Softbanks Hawks gaming, which I will say the full name every time, from Vietnam game esports Viking, esports CB lo pain Gaming, and LLA movie star r seven. Those are all of our world's representatives, if that any of that was a spoiler for you. Sorry, you've been living under a rock. And welcome to the podcast. [00:07:12] Speaker A: Get with the time. [00:07:13] Speaker B: What we're here to talk about. We also have some fun news that dropped just today, actually. A lot of news that dropped in like, the last couple of days or the day that we're recording up. First, Kobi, I'm actually going to get your thoughts on this one to start off, because tier one news for the Americas merger dropped today. And I know that you were somebody that read through the articles, you kind of took a look at it. So what are your immediate thoughts? My thought was that we didn't get actually that much information that was new, but it was just kind of like a lot of resetting that. Yeah, we're going to have news coming out. [00:07:47] Speaker E: It really was a nothing article for tier one. It actually had a lot involved for tier two. So we learned a lot more about that and that system. It's going to be two conferences at tier two that align with, I'm just going to say lcs and CBDOL or the north and south conference. Lcs being north, CBDOL being south. I'm going to associate the two until they actually pick a brand, if they change it or not. But there will be a combinator like kind of a combining of the, I believe, the latin american teams to actually be incorporated in those spaces and that those splits will be alongside split two and three of the schedule. So congrats to the vast majority of people on this call. We have a longer winner. Yeah, let's go. [00:08:30] Speaker B: We got more off time. So the tier two news, I think, was, you're right, had more in it. But one thing on the tier one side that I did notice is that they basically confirmed that there will be at least one roadshow. They said that they didn't make any information about, or given any information about finals for like the winter, spring, summer Jamada. You're already aware of this from LEc, that those have all just been in the studio, right? Like those kind of shorter split finals. But they did say in the news announcement for the Americas that the tournament to qualify the final world spot will be a touring road show every year. So I was like, okay, that's kind of cool. At least they gave some information that will have some reason to travel. [00:09:11] Speaker E: That was kind of a pseudo show, I will say that was assumed and that it is nice they're going to do that roadshow. Bm. [00:09:17] Speaker B: Yeah, but you're right. A lot of nothing. Hawk, were you able to catch the tier two news, though? Because I know that you covered some of the CB Lowell know a little bit more about kind of what those regions look like, specifically the LRN versus LRS North Southern conferences, essentially for LLA's tier two. [00:09:34] Speaker C: Yeah. So the news, I mean, if I'm being honest, I only skimmed the article, but the news for tier two was kind of that. There's no news, seemingly, in the sense that not very much is changing systematically for tier two, at least when compared with tier one. Right, where Latin America north and South are still going to maintain their developmental leagues, as well as quote unquote CBO Academy and the North American Challengers League. Like all of that is largely staying the same on a two split system as well. So it's not transitioning to the three split system that tier one is. And then the way promotion is going to work is that for both lcs and CB low, you know, the equivalent of that, it's basically going to be the top two teams from each NACL and Latin America north or Latin America south and Cibilol, depending on what conference you're in. And then the single. Was it either the bottom team or. I think it's just the guest. The quote unquote guest team in the. [00:10:35] Speaker B: It's just the guest. Even if the guest team goes like, qualifies for World cup, theoretically they would still be defending their spot in the region. [00:10:43] Speaker C: So it's a five team bracket, double elimination, winner take all, essentially, to qualify into the top league and then, you know, beneath tier three, or rather tier two as well at tier three, basically, they said that riot is seemingly going to do some major, major structural changes to the tier three space, at least in North America, but they didn't really say what that was going to be, if I'm being honest. It seems like they don't really know what it's going to be yet. [00:11:09] Speaker E: I mean, it looks like the big change is that they're going to have, oh, cues for everything. So it's pretty much just going to be the NACL format. But for all the tier twos, which I'm a fan of, like, you need, like Javon and I were talking about, like, the importance of promotion, relegation, I think you need that like a book, especially at this level, just to have good orgs in, is it gives fans a reason to be interested in both the top and bottom teams of. Yeah, each tier, which is great. The other big change is the fact that the tier one sister teams, like a team, like Flyquest Challengers and then also collegiate teams like Maryville, they're saying that they might think about, like, they want to have him incorporated, but not. I will say that with where NA has been heading and most of these teams being remote, I actually think the importance of having college is involved because those players get to develop in person. Uh, it's really important because, like, as a team, as someone that's worked with a team in person and also remote, the ability to impact people in person versus remote and have, like, a team be intrinsically motivated, it's just uncomparable. And I think we really saw that with the success of Dragonsteel this year. Yeah, just being in person the entire time was a huge advantage for them. So I am hoping that they can find a way to incorporate both and we get more teams. Actually being in person, I would say, really feel like that's important for the growth of players. [00:12:25] Speaker D: I do have a serious question on the whole. Starting in split two and three for tier two, though, I feel like as a developmental league, shouldn't it run alongside a professional league. Like, not only from the position of, you know, that's what I did work in the winter split, but, like, looking at the developmental side of things, why are we waiting a whole split of play to have our tier two players start playing their games? It just feels weird. [00:12:51] Speaker B: I think that it's a similar. It might be a logistical thing because if you're unable to do a full three splits as tier two, like, let's just imagine that that was the decisions. Like, okay, we can't do three, so we're only going to do two. Makes sense for it to be spring and summer because then you're going to be ending, going into that promotion tournament when the tier one league will be ending and then getting ready for that as well. So you have less, like, of a break for the teams that are going to try and promote in. But that is all assuming that there's a reason why it's not just the three splits. Like, I don't know why it couldn't just be a three split system at tier two as well. [00:13:25] Speaker E: It's. It's just a scale down. [00:13:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it could be. I also think at least having, you know, experienced winter split twice here in Europe, some people, and especially, like, last year, people were not super hype on, like, what does winter split actually provide? Because you kind of, like, you won it and in g two's case, it's like, Jito is so good. I can't remember exactly what the. Because I know things changed this year compared to last year. Like, you could have won winter, I think, last year and technically not made it to MSI. Yeah, they changed that, which they obviously changed this year. So if, you know, the stakes are obviously a lot different in tier two, tier three in general. So maybe it's a little bit more to do that and then, like, obviously syncing it up again with, like, promotion, relegation when, you know, all the tier one teams are up and in international tournaments, that's obviously what happens, you know, domestically, on the tier two side. [00:14:17] Speaker E: Yeah. But before you sneak in, I will say that winter split, it's going to be shorter. Riot's already said that, like, that split just internationally is going to be shorter, too. So I expect when tier three starts up, like, usually it starts up late January, and I feel like it's just going to be anywhere from mid February to, like, late or mid February to early March. Now is when the, like, my perspective start date would be. So it really isn't that big of a change, especially because the. Because it's a three split system it should run deeper into the season. So we'll see. Yeah. [00:14:49] Speaker B: Your thoughts? [00:14:50] Speaker C: My one. My one thing about, like, comparisons to Lec format that I've been seeing is, like, you know, Lec was trying to play a three split system in a two split system, if that makes sense, which is, I think, a big part of the reason it didn't work, whereas, like, I mean, theoretically, this year, everything should be building towards, like, this new structure. I agree. I think it's a little bit weird that tier two is just kind of randomly eschewing one of those splits, but we'll see what happens. In general, it feels like 2025 is kind of a trial year for this whole new format, both for the, quote, unquote, merger of lcs and CBOL, which is sort of only a half merger at this point, and then also, you know, three splits and just generally shaking up the structure. [00:15:30] Speaker E: Honestly, I'm a fan. Of course, you can say it's a trial year, but I really hope they don't change anything major. I think that, like, they're going to probably stick with the three international tournaments, like, have the three splits, and I think the changes are good. I think it's fine. [00:15:45] Speaker B: One other thing, just to kind of go back to the initial topic that brought up this discussion, was the tier two kind of split for. We have two splits for spring and summer, but also the fact that we're getting two new regions. Technically, I have had this big question mark. What's happening to Llaeheende? Like, what is the LLA going to look like in this new system? Because, yes, we get, like, an LLA team in the North Conference and in the south conference, but, like, where are the other LLA teams going? And from my understanding, it kind of feels like this. Hawk, it seems like you might have some more information on that. [00:16:18] Speaker C: Well, sorry, I could be wrong, but isn't the LLA system just generally going away, like, at the pro level? I thought that was kind of the. [00:16:26] Speaker B: But I was one. But I was wondering, what does it mean to be an LLA team in an. In the north conference and an LLA team in the south conference if there is no LLA? If the LLA doesn't exist, how, like, what does it mean when Riot says there will be an LLA team in the north conference? [00:16:43] Speaker C: In franchising? [00:16:44] Speaker A: I mean, that's. [00:16:45] Speaker C: Sorry, I. That was how I interpreted their initial announcement article, is that they're just gonna franchise one Latin American north team and one Latin American south team, and that was gonna kind of be it. [00:16:53] Speaker B: Is that one franchise team then going to be allowed to play all south american players and the other teams are not because there's like, they'll cap. You need two na players that's a good player, and then two imports. So, like the roster, I feel like there's questions. There's been a question mark above my head. That's, how does this all work? Right? But from what I'm kind of interrupting. [00:17:15] Speaker C: Now, salty run back grapes, and I raised the question. We're like, does 30 just play on the Latin American north team? [00:17:21] Speaker B: But now I'm thinking, because they're actually establishing two regions for the tier two system, there's going to be LRN, which is Liga, I forget what the r. [00:17:30] Speaker E: Stands, just north and south and south. [00:17:32] Speaker B: Basically, which were qualifiers before, from my understanding, not official leagues. Now they're just going to be leagues that have the same format as the NACL and CB low academy. Everything's going to be kind of the same format so that there's no confusion as to what's happening at what time in each region. But then for the promotion tournaments, that's when LRN, the Northern Latin American tier two system, will compete against NACL for that promotion spot into the northern Conference. So I think it's cool that, like, for my. That's my best guess is that's what the LLA is becoming. It's gonna kind of be, I don't know, Jamada, if you see parallels to, like, the EMEA masters system there, where it's like they were a major region, kind of, but, like, now they're basically one of the developmental regions feeding in my heart. [00:18:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's. Yeah, it really depends on how they want to land with a, you know, quote unquote tier two system underneath the Americas. Right. Coming from Europe and generally, you know, promotional irrigation, all of these kind of systems being very built into our culture, I hope for the Americas sake that that is present. I think it's super important for development. That discourse as a whole was something that was super present around some of the stagnation around the lcs in prior years before 2024 that has now started to see very large payoffs, you know, the end of last year, all throughout this year, why the tier two system is so important. And even now as well this year here domestically, we're being reminded, even in Europe, why domestic talent is really important with some of the. Some of you coming up like Vladi and like Jackie's and some of these other personalities and very strong players. So, yeah, I do see some mirrors in the sense of maybe a small bit of dwindling. I hope for, again, the America's sake, though, that there is generally more backing for that system, especially for, you know, some of the more realistically underrepresented in the west regions like LATAM, like cb low outside of their core audience, because obviously CBLO is a very, very tight community because, yeah, again, I think it just breeds more storylines. It provides more for the tier one and the rest of the global infrastructure as a whole. [00:19:36] Speaker B: Anyway, more home teams to root for. [00:19:40] Speaker E: I do want to add real quick, at least the point you had Kangas about, what are the rules for an LRN team stepping into lcs with that one slot? Yeah, I gotta imagine they just grandfather everyone in year one or like, they, they have them under a different rule set because, yeah, I think that you want those teams to, like, pick up spanish speaking players, connect with the fans that are already fans of that, you know, you don't want to, but those. [00:19:59] Speaker B: Are the types of questions that riot has, hasn't answered yet in any of their discussions about what this merger of the region is going to look like. And those are the types of questions that I'm curious about. I'm happy that they're communicating, but they haven't addressed everything yet. I'm expecting they're just wanting to focus on worlds after worlds. We're gonna get that information and they're still probably working on it. [00:20:20] Speaker A: I was gonna say it's. It's very riot fashion to not reveal anything until, like, you know. Yeah, they, they want to do it, you know, doesn't matter who you are, what part of the league, or, you know, what region you're from, you will get the information when the information is ready to be received. So it's likely, like you just said, probably post world is when I think the most stuff is going to come out about America's. [00:20:43] Speaker B: Anybody remember this time last year we had golden guardians and eg still existing? [00:20:48] Speaker E: Not like this. [00:20:49] Speaker B: Yeah, they left right after worlds. [00:20:53] Speaker E: They're probably going to release it, like, during worlds to tuck it under the news cycle, you know? [00:20:59] Speaker B: All right, well, that was a lot of time spent on that because that was big news that came out today. But there's also some other global news to finish up here. We can go through it a little faster. Some specifically roster news. All immortals players have been dropped from the global player contract database. So expectation is that that is just reinforcing the rumor that they're out. You know, Immortals will not be around next year if they just purge their coach and every player from the database. I doubt that this is, oh, it's a big immortals rebuilding for next year when they're gonna be in the league again. Technically could still be true, but for me it's just more evidence. But also other news. There's a rumor berserker could be leaving cloud nine now. Mazelle actually, let's get your thoughts on this one to start off here, because we talked about Jojo pun, which was still a rumor last week. It's still all just rumors, but this would kind of be a purge of like a lot of their big names. If this is true. [00:21:51] Speaker D: I mean, I think it has to be. I think this roster just hasn't worked with all the pieces and we talked a little bit about it last week as well. But sometimes super teams just don't work. And it sucks that it feels like this stint for berserker didn't get him the higher highs that maybe he wanted to have and obviously won a championship. Obviously that's awesome. But I think the international stage is what he had his eyes on mostly. And that just makes me wonder if he's going to look for like a full reset and go back to LCK or try to find another team to play for in a like, I don't know if he likes the culture as well here because there were some questions about that and like, the practice culture in the past. So I don't know, it's, it's a shame, it's sad. I. But I think something has to change with that roster. [00:22:30] Speaker A: Yeah. I'll also just very quickly add from an outsider's perspective, one I think it would suck for the, I guess, the Americas now to lose play like Berserker. I think he's really established his brand in na quite, you know, quite strongly, but also just on the point of super teams. I can't remember the last time I saw a super team succeed in the actual expectation that they needed to meet. Right. If super team, super team's supposed to win worlds, they don't win. Wells super team's supposed to win their domestic region, they just tend not to. So obviously everything is still rumors, but between, you know, Jojo last week and now berserker this week, it's, you know, if I was a betting man, I'm not. But if I was, I wouldn't be like super surprised. I think it's probably going to end up being a relatively big rebuild for, for c nine because when these super teams just boom, they tend to have very short life cycles. [00:23:21] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah, yeah. The super team thing is always, always a funny one, I think, kind of going off that, too. And, like, all the berserker news as well is like, there's. I think the greater rumor is that cloud nine might just be going more budget next year, which, I mean, like, that. That's pretty, like, up in the air. And Matt, maybe you have more to expand on that, but that's like, I think the greater rumor is not just, oh, they're offloading Jojo and Berserker because they failed this year, but perhaps because they might just be trying to cut back for 25 in general. [00:23:53] Speaker E: Yeah, I mean, I think the contracts that they had for Jojo especially was like, that was very high, and I think that's why they were seeking to terminate it. They have a lot of financial reason to. Obviously, we don't know the full situation there at Jojo's side, but everything that has come out on that is, like, just weird slash interesting. And if I. They want to cut berserker to, like, I. I know that, like, they were able to keep that team together with Jojo because some of the players did take cuts, but that doesn't mean that they were small contracts if you're blabber, berserker and na. [00:24:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:32] Speaker E: So I think that it does line up with c nine trying to at least unload, and it makes a lot of sense. Speaking of international, like, if you are signing players like that to contracts like that, you are making the bet that you can go international for a splitter, too. And for them to go over to in that, why do a rather disappointing year, of course. So, yeah, yeah. [00:24:50] Speaker B: And then couple that with their other esport rosters, because they picked up a lot this year and they did not have a lot of success either. Like, cloud nine as a, spent a lot of money in 2024 and didn't have a lot of tournament results to show for it. So it wouldn't surprise me if, yeah, 2025 was more of a budget year for them, but, yeah, still a rumor. We'll see. Keep our eyes on that story. There's one other thing. Okay. This one I don't know much about. I've seen the rumors going around, but I'm happy that we Jamad and Mazel here to talk about it because this is about an LPL player. LNG scout may not be able to attend worlds. That's a big maybe and a tough question to ask a couple weeks before the biggest event of the year. Jamada, do you know anything about this? [00:25:32] Speaker A: Yeah, a lot of pointers. I'm not going to talk about the actual situation itself in terms of the legality. [00:25:40] Speaker B: Okay. We have Cubby to talk about that. [00:25:41] Speaker A: Maybe. Maybe touch on those things. [00:25:46] Speaker E: I don't. I don't know. [00:25:48] Speaker A: Okay, there you go. But, um, it's something to do with the contract and not being able to travel outside of China, so scout can't go to Europe. That's just how it is. The thing that seems almost finalized right now, as things have kind of developed, is Ya Gao is most likely going to be replacing. It's almost like, pretty much like, guaranteed Ya Gao is gonna be replacing scout at this tournament as a, like, lone player. It was between yagao and rookie. But very comically, the rule that was proposed to, my understanding, is that it had to be a team that had to be a player from a team outside of the top six in summer. [00:26:28] Speaker E: Yes. [00:26:30] Speaker A: So they can't go rookie. So they can't go rookie. Comic. [00:26:35] Speaker E: Rookie fits that team a lot better. It's like what everyone thinks. [00:26:38] Speaker A: Yeah, rookie. Rookie fits that team a lot better. Yagao, comically, though, was also one game away from making it to worlds through the regional gauntlet, though. So, yeah, I find that kind of funny, because technically, if you want to be semantic, rookie actually finished further away from worlds than your gal did. But I digress. That's the rookie lawyer inside of me trying to fight for. [00:27:02] Speaker E: I love that lawyer, by the way. I love that lawyer. [00:27:05] Speaker A: Thank you. But, yeah, it seems. It seems almost like a done deal to be a football journalist for a second. Your girl's gonna be filling that slot. [00:27:16] Speaker D: It's really sad. It's all about legal dramas with Scout's contract with EDG from last year when he wanted to switch over to another team. And it just sucks that it seems like it's kind of like a pride thing that's going on and just a lot of crappiness behind the scenes. It just sucks also, because, literally, scout is 90% the reason why LNG would win games, because the man would literally pick yone or pick something that he can engage on or find flanks on, or play side lanes with, and that that's how LNG found any kind of success. So I'm not saying you, gal can't bring that. And I do have high hopes for you. Go. And I have high praise for him because he's one of you, one of the goats. But I seriously think that they take it. They're taking out the heart of LNG, and it just really sucks. [00:28:03] Speaker B: And, I mean, it's going to be a contentious world because typically every international event, it feels like it's between LPL or LCK. And this is essentially one of the four getting a big nerf. Now, even if you go a great individual player to come in, we all know roster for that long. So this is riot enforcing the contract to give t one the best chance. [00:28:23] Speaker A: Having comically been called James Harden the last couple of weeks. Thank you. I will dominate. And learning about James Harden overall and his lore in the NBA. It is effectively like this, that now scout is the system of LNG, and the system is being removed from LNG. So now this is actually about LNG finding a way to either play that same system in that same way with, you know, effectively a different engine, or just completely changing up playstyle. And it's. It's going to be a bloody short turnaround. Right. I think main stage starts right at the beginning of October. So they've got more or less from, like, day recording. It's the 18 September. They've got, like, less than two weeks, including travel time. Right. So best of luck, sailors, because I, you know, between, you know, the travel time, but then also pretty hefty patch and general patch changes and gameplay changes overall. It's a lot of stuff to figure out in that, short of a turnaround. So I do not envy being either LNG players or, you know, coaching staff, God forbid, at this tournament. [00:29:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it's gonna be rough. We'll keep our eyes on how lng looks going into that first week of play, but, yeah, also expectation meeting you, Gao. Technically, I think that has been locked in. So maybe things change next week. We can give an update if it's locked in or not. [00:29:43] Speaker D: But for now, it's not officially, it did get approved. [00:29:47] Speaker A: Yeah, it seemed it's been approved, but it's not been officially announced. [00:29:52] Speaker B: Announced. [00:29:53] Speaker A: So it's like one of those things. We can see the global contract, Aipenna, we know what's happening. [00:29:56] Speaker B: Makes sense. [00:29:57] Speaker D: LNG next to his name now. [00:29:59] Speaker B: All right, lng, you go. Congratulations. But that is it for global news. So next up, we can get into the episode proper. There's a lot of news to cover. So thanks for sticking with us. And if you want to give your opinion on anything going on or if we missed anything going on around the world in League of Legends global news, check out our community discord. You can find a link in the description wherever you are listening while you're there, if you want to support the pod, if you enjoy the episodes and the content. You can support us either through our Patreon you. We also have a new merch store league dash rundown Dash shop dot fourthwall.com. this is our past lead host, Duffy and longtime friend of the podcast Sam's endeavor to try and get some more money coming in as well to help out with off season content and stuff, which is right around the corner. So once we're wrapped up with worlds, we can start announcing what that's going to look like. But thanks for everybody who does support us. Shout out to everybody in the community as well. But with that. That said, it is now time to preview some regions here. The two juggernauts of the global League of Legends stage, LPL and LCK. We have our representatives, our subject matter air quote experts for one of the teams and actual experts for the other team here. So we're going to start off with the actual experts with LPL and Giselle to talk about it. Starting with our first seed, we have BLG with Ben way this. Do they have two minutes? Oh, that's two. [00:31:29] Speaker E: Jungle bringing June. They're one of the few teams using. [00:31:33] Speaker B: A real solid column. [00:31:34] Speaker D: June. [00:31:35] Speaker E: Sorry, what is it? [00:31:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you. What the hell? [00:31:40] Speaker E: Thank you. I mean, they're one of the few teams bringing a real sub. You know, I find it interesting, actually. True? [00:31:46] Speaker A: Yeah, kind of true, actually. [00:31:47] Speaker B: Well, let's start off with Jamada as the guest. You can start off talking about this team, obviously, Mazelle. You can hop in and give your thoughts on it as well. But big questions for every team that we're going to start off with is how did they get here to worlds, how'd they qualify in and how they look doing it just to kind of set the stage. [00:32:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Thankfully, this is a very simple answer. They're just better than every other team in the LPL. [00:32:12] Speaker C: There we go. [00:32:13] Speaker A: They fucking owned dumpstered basically every team throughout the year. Like, there's not really been a point where I feel like anyone has necessarily overly doubted BLG. There was gonna be, like one series, I think, in summer playoffs when they first met top esports, and people like, well, BLG series by their standards was a little bit shaky at best. And it's like, well, they just walked in and just dog walked top esports. So it's like, eh, well, never mind. So, yeah, BLG are unequivocally the best team in the LPL with no real argument for me anyway, to really say, like, hey, top esports can contest them. LNG can contest them? No, it just does not seem that way. These guys are just the juggernauts of. [00:32:58] Speaker B: China and now Mizell. Next question for you then, is what makes them so good? Like, is it a playstyle thing? Is it a meta raid thing? Is it an individual performer thing? Like, what about them makes them so dominant? [00:33:11] Speaker D: I mean, they all have some of the best hands in LPL, holistically. I think the biggest thing has been the change that way has brought to the jungle. He does play aggressive junglers, but he's playing more facilitative, more controlling, and that control leads to a lot of really good, cohesive play from the solo laners. And then, like, leading those advantages into playing through elk and on. I think Elk still is probably one of the most underrated ADC's in all of the world. I think his hands are absolutely crazy and his team fights really, really good. But the biggest thing has been that way has just brought consistency to the jungle role in a controlling factor that enables legends like Ben and Night to actually play their game. And especially with the meta, we, like, see, like, super aggressive trades in mid lane, things like that. Like, Knight has taken full advantage of that every single time. And I think if they control the map, if they have tempo, so that's where they look really good. We have seen them falter to some extent, but then be able to bring back team fights later game, especially against the like of top esports and teams like of that nature. So I don't think you can ever count this team out at any stage of the game. I think that's maybe their most powerful thing, is people will still be holding on to the old stories of blgs like, oh, can you count on them? Are they actually real? Are they going to actually perform? And I think it's going to be really interesting. I do not foresee Shun coming in, though, unfortunately. [00:34:34] Speaker A: I want to quickly buy in there and actually just add very, very quickly, though. They have a very unique situation with the potential of the jungle meta shifting away from AP ish prio. And I think that is where Shun is probably slightly stronger. Weirdly, because it's like Shun is really good at Nidalee, and then seemingly the rest of AP jungle pool was kind of mediocre. So depending on how things like sell, I don't foresee them bringing in shun for performance reasons, but I could certainly see them bringing in Shun if the meta shifts so aggressively that maybe they just feel like a more aggressive early game through skirmishers fits them. Or if Wade, for their reason, doesn't actually tick those boxes. [00:35:15] Speaker D: The thing is, though, is way is that guy. [00:35:19] Speaker A: That's. [00:35:19] Speaker D: Yeah, that's the only star. [00:35:21] Speaker E: He was the vehicle. [00:35:22] Speaker D: That's why I love these two junglers, because they're so good at what they do. Yeah, I think way, like, he made his name on Eastar. When he's playing j four, he's playing Zin Zhao. He's playing very skirmish heavy junglers. And, like, he can bring that back. It's been very obvious that they haven't been willing to try to go that route, but I'm just wondering if that's going to be something that they take into consideration. [00:35:42] Speaker B: Hawk, it looked like you had a quick point. You wanted to get in there as well. [00:35:44] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. I mean, we've kind of moved away from it already. The the only thing I really have to say about Blg is, like, I mean, I've watched a little bit of LPL, but not a close watcher is. I mean, there's a legitimate argument for this team to have the two strongest side lanes in the entire world. [00:35:58] Speaker B: Right. [00:35:58] Speaker C: Like, been and then elk and on are built different from what I understand. [00:36:03] Speaker A: So I completely agree. I think Ben's the best top laner in the world. And like Mazel said, elk is very underrated on not to give him the on his day ballad or Ballon dor, but, like, on is a really, really good support in the right settings. And I think especially throughout a lot of the, the playoffs, you, you saw him have very, very big moments where you're just like, wow, like, I'm sorry, I'm dying. Yeah. [00:36:30] Speaker D: But there was the one game where he played bard, and he literally went like, oh, and eight and was just the most inting person I've ever seen on a professional stage in, like, a literal finals game. And he's like, oh, and seven, oh and eight just dying everywhere. They still win the championship. And, like, the fact that he could do that, still fight impact is so telling. [00:36:53] Speaker C: I call limit testing. [00:36:55] Speaker E: I actually, like, really value on this team, by the way. I know that, like, I mean, I value inting supports. Like I do. Like, sometimes, you know, you got to crack a few eggs to make an. [00:37:03] Speaker B: Omelet and with me, too many times. [00:37:05] Speaker E: Yeah. I mean, if, if you're going to, like, play support, like, you're going to get caught out at times if you're playing the role correctly, I think that that's just how it should be played. But some of the angles and, like, the space that anz able to take on, like, I think his renata's, like, top tier. He's got champs. He can play that our top tier. I think that he really sets up his team who does have insane carries by just. He's good at buying space, and I really value that on this team, I. [00:37:31] Speaker A: Think, more than anything. And it's the same thing I feel about crisp as well. His reactive play, I think is some of the best in the world in the support role. I think it's something that's kind of undervalued. Like, people always look at the spores, like, you know, hey, like, the engagers, the foot, like the immediate playmakers. But I think in that same breath, the ability to kind of go, ah, here's the fault in there. Engage and then immediately break it apart is also another very valuable, you know, kind of eye test to keep an eye on when it comes to support players. [00:38:00] Speaker E: I'm just happy that you think Chris is performing then, because. I don't know. It's been a while. It's been a while. [00:38:06] Speaker D: Just. Just a quick point on, though. Really quick. He's also just super young, right? Like, literally a year ago, from. From going into worlds, he was the youngest support in the LPL, which is just super cool. [00:38:18] Speaker B: That is very impressive, actually. [00:38:20] Speaker E: What were going to say about Chris Jamal? Because, like, I. I remember Chris from, like, the FPX days, and I remember him, like, taking the downturns. So if he's playing well, I'm glad he's. [00:38:27] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I mean, recently he's been doing well. I think his gauntlet performance in particular was really, really strong. Yeah. Especially his Alistar was probably, like, single. [00:38:37] Speaker D: Handedly was winning them games. [00:38:38] Speaker E: I mean, if it. If it's still Cal Leona, like, that is like, I remember Chris for, like, his Leona play and, like, yeah, it should be good for him. [00:38:46] Speaker B: Well, speaking of potential meta picks and what that can look like, we haven't seen a lot of competitive play on the world's patch. Shout out to the America's tournament going on right now in tier two because that is on the world's patch. But said something earlier. Xin Zhao, J four, both buffed on this patch. Viego buffed on this patch. I mean, just slight tweaks, but arguably a buff. I think that having two junglers could be an interesting approach if they have the strategy to play both. And both of them focus on different picks because it's gonna be a new patch. You know, they can spread the knowledge gain and get more knowledge, even if they're only gonna be playing one of the junglers. At least they can use the other jungler to try out different picks on the world's patch and experiment with that, which I think is going to be a buff for them. [00:39:34] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's. And that's. That's what I was highlighting earlier. I think, for me, the fact that, like, wei has the experience of being, like, the skirmishing jungler and that, at least for what we've seen from, you know, shun on his time on BLG with, you know, this more or less iteration of BLG, that the times they look the best outside of, you know, a majority of this year, where it felt like. Felt has felt like they've not had a majority of any kind of competition was on Xin Zhao, was on other engages, you know, like Vi, like Sejuani, all of these kind of early to mid game to just kind of fulfills their role in the late game as a frontliner. So, again, if they feel like Wei fits more of the profile of playing some of the other more aggressive AP junglers, they can utilize him that way. But he's obviously got the history to play the aggressive stuff and then shouldn't. Again, it's just kind of the complete inverse. So I think having two junglers this tournament is weirdly even more invaluable than usual. [00:40:30] Speaker B: Well, we spent a lot of time talking about them because they are the first seed coming in from LPL. So I'm happy to spend a little bit longer on them, but now I want to kind of put the bow on it and ask, what are expectations for this team at worlds because they dominated the LPL. Kelby, I see that you already. You're not the LPL corresponding. [00:40:48] Speaker E: You're right. [00:40:48] Speaker B: What do you got your hand up for? [00:40:49] Speaker E: Well, because, I mean, if you don't have BLG as a tournament favorite, then I don't know what you're doing. Like, they are a favorite coming into this anything, but. [00:40:57] Speaker A: But finals is gonna feel like a failure realistically for BLG, right? Like, you don't come top two after a year like this. It's. It's either you. You genuinely, like, made a. Made a muck up somewhere along the roads, or you just rolled gen g in semis. Right? Like, that's. That's just how I see this. This blg lineup as things are. Yeah. Again, you know, I think worlds meta might affect their play, like, a bit. But frankly, you could argue if it. If it leans into more skirmishing, that's kind of where they're best anyway. So, yeah, I think anywhere but side later is getting bad. Yeah. Silence, get buff again. I just think that there's loads of things that also are just playing in their favor as far as the Mer is concerned. Anything outside of top two is. Is going to feel like a bit of a shock to the system, I think. [00:41:46] Speaker E: Do we want to talk about worlds meta at all? Because, like, I think that it's going to change a bit on the patch, but, like, right now there's a lot of, like, Ori, Syndra and j four being played, like, in terms of mid jungle, in terms of what the players are practicing and, like, where I've been hearing, like, the potential meta could be. [00:42:04] Speaker B: I would like to keep us on track, at least for now, for LPL. But as meta discussion comes up with play styles of teams, I'm happy to address it as it's around for night. [00:42:14] Speaker E: I think that's really good ignite syndrome. [00:42:16] Speaker A: I agree. And I also add, obviously have like, the America's tournament going on right now. Champions queue in EU west as players. [00:42:23] Speaker E: Yes. [00:42:23] Speaker A: You know, make their way over to Europe is also going to be a very solid indicator of what teams are. [00:42:28] Speaker B: Like that just starting today. Right. [00:42:30] Speaker A: The last. The last three days since yesterday, the ten Wifo game. [00:42:34] Speaker B: I did see that, actually. It's really funny. I. Yeah, yeah. But keeping our eyes on the meta, I think is going to be fun for expectations of teams based on their playstyle. But I do want to make sure we cover all the teams on the episode. So let's move on to second seed from LPL. Mazelle, I'm going to have you intro this one. Since Shimada introed in the first one, we have top esports with 369, Tian cream, Janky Love, and Mako. So basically same thing. How'd they get into worlds and how did they look along the path? [00:43:05] Speaker D: How they got into worlds was. Was tien gaming. No, it really was actually one of the most lackluster tickets to worlds I think, that could ever be achieved because their success in spring gave them a ton of championship points. They made a run from round three in the LPL playoffs and then got put in the lower bracket by BLG in the semifinals. It was a three one. That's the game we were kind of foreshadowing and talking a little bit about earlier. Then they went to a five game banger against Weibo. Somehow, somehow Weibo one after beating LNG before then. So top were technically out of the playoffs. They were awaiting the finals victor, because if BLG did not win, they were going to be put into the regionals. But because BLG one, they got the second seed because of championship and they didn't have to play any more games. [00:44:04] Speaker C: Nice. [00:44:05] Speaker D: They lost two best of fives in a row, and then now they're at worlds, baby. [00:44:09] Speaker B: Second seed. Let's go. Okay. A little bit more. [00:44:14] Speaker D: Yeah. Foreshadow. A little bit more. Second seed. Last time top esports got it was one of the most tragic international runs we've ever seen from a LPL representative. [00:44:24] Speaker E: What year was that? [00:44:24] Speaker D: So hopefully, hopefully not. Not talking about that too much. [00:44:28] Speaker E: Was that the road gear? [00:44:30] Speaker D: It was the. Yeah, it was 2022. Okay. Yeah, it was the one. They lost every single series and just bowed out. [00:44:35] Speaker E: Odomalkite. [00:44:36] Speaker C: I was. I was there for the gam game, man. [00:44:39] Speaker A: That was. [00:44:41] Speaker E: That was crazy wild. [00:44:42] Speaker D: But this team as a whole, I mean, Tien was mvp of our league for a reason in summer. I mean, the guy was literally just ruthless on the jungle. The way he thinks about the jungle, the way he passed early, is always up in your face, always looking for early advantages, because they ended up coming up with a really good strategy of having, you know, mako out on Rome's obviously super early, using the pressure in the two V two, but more particularly, cream having extreme prior and mid lane and enabling a lot of play around. Tien, I think three, six, nine in the playoffs, was one of the weaker links. But overall, I mean, you have to look at the mid jungle duo for these two. I think people will be very surprised at the cream we have now, comparatively to the cream we got in the internationals this year. [00:45:28] Speaker E: What's upgraded about cream for those that, like, haven't tuned in or what do you feel is the strength of cream for both of you? [00:45:36] Speaker D: So he was always the kind of assassin AP player. He's grown. He actually was playing a lot more control mages first until the ad meta came around, which was very interesting, and he was actually playing pretty well around it with mid lane pressure. But then the ads came around. It just seems like he had a really good pressure mechanics and really good lane mechanics itself, and just always had lane priority. [00:45:55] Speaker A: Maybe I'm a tough crick. I will say. Yeah, no, I am a tough crick. [00:46:00] Speaker E: Outside of his, I don't like how he plays sides. Jamada. [00:46:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Look, I'm not a fan of how he plays side lanes. [00:46:06] Speaker E: Yeah. [00:46:07] Speaker A: I think outside of his Tristana, comparatively to the other LPL mids, his ads do leave a little bit to be desired. But I think that is just genuinely because the other mid laners were really good at playing ADC's middle. But yeah, I think, again, if we are shifting away from the ad mid meta because we've had all of the, you know, the nerfs to the systems of ADC's and solo lanes, his mage play might actually be something that toppy sports can relatively rely on. So again, I'm looking forward to seeing where the meta lands and also with yone seemingly being a kind of residing. Yeah, blind picked. That was in his. That was in his repertoire before, you know, everything else started to shift and he moved over to top esports anyway. So this could very much be a matter where, you know, cream gets to redeem himself a little bit because, of course, his MSI performance was. Yeah, it was a debut to forget in terms of international tournaments. [00:47:01] Speaker E: I'm really interested to see if, like, at any point they attempt. And this is a selfish point, but playing Akali and Ori, that's an old matchup. Oh, they do creams, Akali. I know that. It's so nasty. It's so nasty. So I am kind of hopeful for that. [00:47:15] Speaker D: Just a little small point. Kangas. I see your finger up there. [00:47:18] Speaker A: Yeah, you good? [00:47:18] Speaker D: Go for it. I think just little under note, like, there's been a ton of fun and wacky stories laid at Jackie love in the past. I still think, like, elk and on deserve all the praise. I still think, mechanically, Jackie Love and Mako are the. Are the bot lane that you have to watch out for. Worlds. I think these two guys are so damn good, and if you give them any inch, they'll take a mile. [00:47:39] Speaker C: I believe it was cubby that said you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. That's just Jackie loving ad carry pot. [00:47:44] Speaker E: Honestly, though, not anymore, man. Like, the way that Jackie has actually evolved with his play. [00:47:49] Speaker D: Insane. [00:47:50] Speaker E: He's so fucking good. He is the ad that I'm like, him and Viper, the ones I'm really looking forward to watching pretty much in this. [00:47:57] Speaker C: We'll talk about Viper later. [00:47:59] Speaker B: Getting back on the cream subject, though. Mazelle, I think I remember you saying this. MsI was his first ever international tier one tournament, right? So he's still very new to the scene. He. From what I remember about him, his laning phase was not great at MSI. He was kind of getting crushed in lane, but had a couple of really big, impactful moments that I remember. But then flash forward a couple of weeks he solo kills Faker to start the finals of EWC. And, like, that's. That's, like, crazy to see him make that kind of jump. And what do we think about him now going into worlds as, like, a laning mid lanere? I feel like that's what I think of a lot with LPL mid laners is, like, oh, every. Just LPL laners in general, that they're going to, like, dominate lane. They're going to make you fight for every minion. Like, do we think that cream has evolved already since MSi, where we saw him struggle in that regard? Jamal, let's hear from you first, and then I'll give those thoughts. [00:48:51] Speaker A: Sure. I mean, again, I'm trying my best to not pitch cream here as a Tristana merchant, but what I will say is that his ability to put pressure down in lane on Tristana against other, you know, his other. His other champions in his pool a bit night and day, but, yeah, I think his laning, generally speaking, got a lot stronger. I think also, the systems around him, my favorite word, systems, really did help out. Right. I think the fact that tien just got significantly better in summer and was a lot more active around the lanes, I think the way that Mako frequently roams and plays around the map and as a support, typically, when. When you say around the map, that just means mid lane. These are all just kind of, you know, consequences then, which lead to cream just being able to play a lot more confidently with a lot more freedom and knowing that he can, you know, maybe take a bad trade here and there because he's gonna have, you know, Tien or Mako in his back pocket really soon. Does. Does that mean that he's. He's laning bad? I think he's improved, yes. I don't think it's, like, over the top improvement, but it's certainly noticeable. And again, I'm more gonna be a lot more judgmental, rather, on cream when it comes to where the mayor actually lands in the middling, because I think it's the one place where there's gonna be a large landscape change in the metal comparatively to every other role in the game. Moving into worlds. [00:50:19] Speaker B: Mazelle. Final points on top esports. Cream, really? Anywhere you want to tie the bow here? [00:50:24] Speaker D: Yeah, sorry. Just freaking out, you know, fear. Just one. Anyways, no, at the end, I think the biggest importance will be what happens with the meta. I think a little part talked about, because he really has been struggling, is three, six, nine. I think depending on what the meta has, if he can provide, like, a stable landing platform for a lot of team fights later on and have that kind of utility. That's what's really going to enable cream and Jackie love to play their best. I think Tien is going to be good no matter what. There's all the talk about him choking. I think at this point, it's not him, it's the team. And I think they're going to be able to utilize the variety that he has in jungle to really play through whatever meta we do get. It's going to be about what happens with the people around him. So I really hope that we see a big step up of cream. I think his laning has gotten better, even if we don't talk about the ads, blah, blah, blah. I think his know how of how to use his advantages has gone through the roof. So I think just keeping an eye on top esports, even though they maybe don't have the brightest story coming in, super important to do. [00:51:22] Speaker B: All right, Jamaica, the final thoughts from you. And also, similar to the last team expectations for them at worlds, I think. [00:51:29] Speaker A: Top four is very reasonable. I think that's where they should be setting their floor at. For me with top esports, it is just all about actually hitting the ground running. I think this team will. I don't want to say they're going to mentally clock out, but if they have a stress, like a stressful time at worlds, right, you know, they go zero two into, like, going back up through Swiss to get to top eight, then I would just see them losing in top eight, right? Like, I think these guys really need to have a confident, you know, route into top eight for me to actually feel confident about their overall, you know, play, because I think they are very, you know, confidence based players, and they are a very confidence based roster. So again, I think hitting the ground running off the beginning of the tournament is very important. [00:52:13] Speaker B: All right, I. Well, that is the second seed from LPL, top esports. Maybe top four is what they could push for, but definitely more expectations for the first seed coming in. So that means time to talk about the third seed from the LPL. Jamal, have you intro in this one as its LNG with? I think I'm saying this right. Zika, maybe. Zika. Zuka zika. [00:52:34] Speaker A: Zuka. [00:52:34] Speaker B: Zika. Way, way ya go. Presumably in the mid lane with Gala and hang in the bottom lane. So same thing. Give me the story. How'd they qualify in for worlds, and how'd they look doing it? [00:52:47] Speaker A: Well, they got here through the regional gauntlet, the unfortunate fact is, we now have the hindsight of knowing that it was with scout. And again, not to oversell here, but scout was a large part of that journey for them. Right. LNG were, I think, undefined, like, undefinedly. They were like, undeniably our third best team here in the LPL. And I think they had a lot of issues with kind of settling in the meta and finding primary initial initiators. And that's where scout came in on things like the yone. And if other champions needed to be utilized as engage tools, they would certainly do that. The overall path was about as expected. Right. I think between the spring and summer regional gauntlet was almost always the way they were going to qualify in beating Weibo 30. Maybe people thought Weibo would put up a bit more of a fight, but otherwise, I think most people were probably expecting Weibo to be in that, or rather LNG to be in that top three. You know, worst case, absolutely worst case, fourth seed scenario. [00:53:59] Speaker D: I. I think the. The biggest thing about LNG is they did show a little bit of a more consistent and, like, stable style against Weibo in their regional qualifier match. And that wasn't just scout popping off. Like, a lot of it was enabling him. Yes, because he was on the major carries and if you look at it, it's a lot of utility around the map to kind of enable scout. And I don't see you go in the same light. Like I. Yes, he can play the corkies. Yes, he could play these, these carry picks, but I don't see him in the same mechanical light as I do scout. But there is a little bit of promise and that we were seeing step ups from other people across the board, I think hung maybe the least of a step up in that regional qualifiers. But like the likes of Zika, the likes of way way playing a lot more kind of controlling junglers and actually finding success with that. Gala still has quietly been one of the best, like, utilitarian ADC's that we have. His quirky, not quirky, his zigzag, rather, has also been just terrifying. People ban it away from him all the time, and that's going to be a big pick at Worlds. So just trying to figure out, like, where else they can center these resources, because if they can find a way to have a big carry, that's the style that's worked for them so far. [00:55:10] Speaker E: Yeah. Honestly, that's like, one of my biggest questions for worlds is what happens with Ziggs? Because it's very clear that Ziggs like it's got. It's going to be high presence, but I think that whether it's picked or banned will define a lot of the, like, other meta, you know? Because if you're playing Ziggs, then you have to go to the, like, the eighties, mid, or jungle. And I could, like, Ziggs is strong enough where it definitely is worth playing and warranted. Right. But I'm really curious if, like, people will just take him away, because if he gets taken away, then all of a sudden picks, like, Ori syndrome are opened up more. Right. Cause, like, Ziggs is a champ that, I mean, if you're Apa, you want to play Ziggs in the Ori, like, he will take that matchup. Right. And, yeah, I'm really curious what happens to that champ throughout this tournament, because I. He has to be played, but, yeah. [00:55:56] Speaker B: Okay, well, what are expectations then, for LNG's amount of damage they can do at worlds? Because obviously, with the roster swap coming in, I think that will lower expectations from where it started. I would be surprised if anybody's like, oh, this is gonna be an upgrade. They're gonna look even better now. But let's start with Jamata this time around. Like, what do you think is the potential ceiling and what is the expected floor of this team now? [00:56:21] Speaker A: You would probably think I'd be a little bit apprehensive about LNG, and you'd kind of be right. I do think, however, that with Yagao coming in, what ya gao does bring, at the very least, is, I think, in my opinion, his general mage play and just things like Jayce and all that. I just think maybe if you start to see things like Ziggs come in, which gala obviously is someone who's very competent at playing, then maybe you can lean on some, like, double control mage comps where, you know, tower taking gets kind of easy mid game because you just have constant wave prior. You can just move the side lanes, constantly rotate, things of that nature. I think, again, LNG are a team that are. They have struggled. Their strengths have relied a lot more on their brain as opposed to, like, outplaying on a raw macro level. And I think scout was a big part of that. And it's gonna be about the adaptation. I think the expectations should still be as they should be for any LPL or LCK team, for that matter. Top eight, right? It's about whether or not you reasonably believe that the turnaround is long enough for them to make it into top four in terms of adapting, growing with your gal, the meta striking, right? And maybe a good top eight, you know, seeding role in terms of their matchup. So, yeah, I think realistically, making into quarters is. Is the. Is the goal here. Anything less is definitely going to feel like a big miss misstep, even with your gal coming in so late as a replacement for scout. [00:58:01] Speaker C: So I'm really curious, because with scalp not being here, as good as yagal may be, but, you know, scalp generally, I think being considered the strongest player on LNG, do you not think that it will be enough? You know, for example, like, if a western team is going to make quarters, right, someone has to drop out. Do you not think LNG is that team? Or do you think that LNG, with you, Gao, is still stronger than a g two? A team? Liquid a flyquest? [00:58:31] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I think g two could be weibo or lng on. On very good terms. I mean, again, I always reference Msi, right? [00:58:39] Speaker B: Yep. And all the above. [00:58:42] Speaker A: Look, man, I might almost have an american citizenship. I'm not quite on the LCs band. [00:58:48] Speaker D: I heard you say, hey, hey, hey. I heard you praise tl while we were in Ireland. I don't want to hear that clap. [00:58:54] Speaker A: I did praise tl, alright? But I've had some time to reconsider. And I. I think if they were to make it into top eight, it would not only be because lng suck, but I would also have to be because Weibo suck. And maybe, you know, an LCK team out of the top four. Cough t one. Who invited this guy on the pod, man, I felt. I felt a chill just go down my spine. Sorry. You know, would really have to struggle. [00:59:23] Speaker B: Fourth best of five between t one. [00:59:25] Speaker C: You're not going to like my power ranking, Jamada. [00:59:27] Speaker D: Oh, I. I just, uh. [00:59:30] Speaker A: Go ahead. [00:59:31] Speaker D: I just want to say one last thing for LNG. I think it's one of those teams kind of like way before you. You can never just count them out because they are still a team that has a certain bar of execution. A lot of their players are very well experienced and very good in the moment. Depends which version of LNG we get to step up. I do expect them to make top eight, but I would expect them to be eight or seven. [00:59:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:52] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to reiterate that only four teams can make top four. And we have already heard finals for one LPL team, and that the ceiling is top four for two of the other ones. I mean, not leaving a lot of other space in the top fours. So I think that LNg's out in Swiss. [01:00:08] Speaker A: I'll be the one to say LNG's out and Swiss. [01:00:10] Speaker B: Well, I heard a wise man say that they lost their systems and without their systems, they're going to be struggling. [01:00:16] Speaker E: So, I mean, there should be more teams have the expectation of making it the top eight than actually do. Right. That's just the reality of it. But it's just a question for lNg. I mean, it's a. What happens with you? Go, it's a huge curve. It's a huge curveball. [01:00:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:30] Speaker E: And I will say that, like, aren't. [01:00:31] Speaker C: We supposed to be the haters here? [01:00:32] Speaker E: Like, well, no, I mean, I'm mister realist. And, I mean, my realistic approach for this worlds is, for me, this is the first time in ten years where I actually expect a western team to get out of groups. Like, there should be the expectation that a European, like, and. Or an NA team, like, at least one is getting out. I haven't had that expectation since, like, g two was good, you know. [01:00:55] Speaker A: Right. [01:00:55] Speaker E: Or fnatic was good. [01:00:57] Speaker A: I will say, maybe your idea of western just kind of pertained to na, because I think, yeah. A lot of us in Europe have always had the expectation that g two. [01:01:08] Speaker E: Teams were, like, legit good. Right. [01:01:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:10] Speaker E: Like, for na, I have not had the expectation of, hey, we can get a team out of 2014. [01:01:14] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been a while. Yeah. [01:01:17] Speaker B: Well, that's because cubby's a fake fan. Yeah. Anyway, I think it's time to wrap things up with the LPL side of the conversation with the last seed representing LPL at the world's stage, Mizelle, I'm going to throw this one over to you, since we're ping ponging back and forth. We got weibo gaming with breathe tarzan. Shaohoo. Light and crisp. So, same setup. How'd they qualify for worlds, and how'd they look doing it? [01:01:44] Speaker D: Yeah, so they, you know, had a little bit of a fall. You know, they had some Banger series. They had two back to back five game bang arenos to make it into finals, and then they lost zero three to BLG. And then we went to regionals, and then they lost zero three to LNG. Then they lost the first game of the final series they had, and we were like, can they even win a single game? Then they came back, they won two games in a row, and they were able to finish out a five game series against JDG. JDG for making it to internationals. But this team has been a hell of a roller coaster. I think the memes and the kind of storyline has still continued from last year. They have gotten some big upgrades, obviously, in the fact that Tarz Tarzan is here, I think breathe a little bit less of an upgrade he had. [01:02:33] Speaker A: You can say he's an upgrade. [01:02:35] Speaker D: He actually had some good series to finish out their year, but I think he was maybe the more lackluster edition. I think Tarzan has taken this roster by storm and been a huge influence to how they play the game. I think his connection with Shaohoo is extremely, extremely important, except for the fact that Shaohoo likes to go 50 50 and sometimes not show up to games, and sometimes he does. But the, the goal of this team is to find consistency because it still has been a matter of fact that if they don't have the right read, if they don't have the right meta, if they aren't drafting correctly, it just falls completely apart. And we saw that until they were able to finally turn it around against Weibo or against JDG for Weibo. [01:03:14] Speaker B: Okay, so then what, what is the expectation for them coming into this world? Just, I mean, they're the fourth seed, and it seems like even with the Yagao swap, that the hopes for this team are kind of at the lowest. I mean, they are the fourth seed. Jamada, is it really just kind of like doom and gloom? [01:03:31] Speaker D: I think I have them over lng. [01:03:33] Speaker A: Yeah, over LNG. And if I'm to, dare I say, almost as long as, like, if top esports played the way that they did. [01:03:42] Speaker B: Before, I swear to God, no. [01:03:44] Speaker A: I think Weibo are almost our unofficial second seed. I don't know how controversial a take that is amongst my fellow LPL heads, but I honestly, I really like this, this version of Weibo. [01:03:59] Speaker E: I think Tarzan's been bawling, man. [01:04:01] Speaker A: Yeah, like Tarzan is individually playing really, really, really well. [01:04:07] Speaker D: Respect on my goat's name. [01:04:10] Speaker B: And we got two great gifts from him from the finals where he fell over walking, but also where he stood up after walking. So you can clip either side depending on what he does in the game. [01:04:19] Speaker A: I think systematically they're kind of similar to LNG in terms of their side lane play. I think you could argue their weaknesses more in their overall. Not to get, like, too naicry analytical here, but the main difference is mostly about their lane assignments and who ends up dropping resources. And oftentimes Xiaohu kind of bites the bullet on that one as opposed to breathe. But generally speaking, I think this team is excellent at team fighting. I think they weirdly, compared to some of the other LPL representatives here don't get super lost in the source. When they start skirmishing early on, they comically, again, they will slow a game down if they have to, and they will allow someone to hit an Im spike, whatever it may be, to actually play out the game how they want to. Again, though, I think that this team, since Tarzan has come in, have just looked like a completely different beast. The game is played around Tarzan, and again, jungle meta is gonna kind of put me into question, or propose the question, rather to Weibo, how they want to play the game. And that's gonna be the big question towards me. Not to consistently crutch on meta here, but honestly, it's a very big deal for a lot of these LPL teams because they are so jungle centric, generally speaking. [01:05:33] Speaker D: Yeah, the. The two biggest jungle, mechanically speaking, carries and kind of jungle people to watch out for are definitely Tarzan and Tien. I think mechanically, brain wise, the way they take pathing and stuff is so next level. And that's why I always used to love watching, you know, them too. But also add JJ into that category as well. Just like, the way they think about early pathing can completely win them games. I think it's super cool to watch. [01:06:01] Speaker E: Yeah. Okay. My concern for this team is that I feel like the meta shift could hurt them the most. Like, just given, like, xiaohu playing ads and Tarzan, like, being really committed to the AP junglers. Like, that's my one concern about this team. I feel like both those players have been experienced enough. Like, they can switch it up and be fine. But I really like Tarzan. Like on the brand, on the Zyro. Like, he was playing these champs, he was so damn good at them. He was really gapping other people at them. [01:06:30] Speaker A: Yeah, he had like Zara Perma band against him, and if it went up, yes, he would just win the game. Like just by DL if a team lay it through. So I think that's one good thing, is that amongst the AP junglers, Zyra was like the one that was pretty much left unscathed off the top of my head. [01:06:45] Speaker E: Yeah. Like, and brand still love to. Very playable. [01:06:48] Speaker A: Brand is also very, very playable. And actually, again, if you're looking to keep up with meta and potentially get a bit of a preview of what the players are looking to preview, like actually play on stage. Go and watch those EU west in houses. Brand is getting played in mid. He's getting played in bot. He's not just a jungler right now. Like, he is actually actively being. [01:07:06] Speaker E: Are they playing Brandon? [01:07:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, they're playing. [01:07:09] Speaker E: Thank God. Dude, that lane's so op, man. [01:07:11] Speaker A: It's so p. Thank you, chinese boosters from the super server, for bringing that one to the rest of the world. But they're also just playing it without an army, which, again, I think just kind of signals how strong that champion is on a slightly higher economy than. [01:07:26] Speaker B: Like, jungle economy does not mean passive Prague. [01:07:29] Speaker A: All three ease. All three? [01:07:30] Speaker E: Yes. [01:07:31] Speaker A: One ability. All three ease. Obviously, the flow that the e provides then makes it easier. So, yeah. [01:07:40] Speaker C: When not only is brand nami crazy, you know, real ones would know that in tier three, Lotus played the brand Skarner bot lane. So keep that one ready for world. [01:07:51] Speaker E: That's gross. Yeah. The brand ami was like a pick in Emilio when Emilio was a thing. It was really fun. [01:07:59] Speaker B: Just burn through him. Well, then, if we're talking about the same, just to wrap things up here for the final lpl seed for weibo ceiling floor. Mazelle. Do you want to take this one? What do you think? The ceiling for Weibo. Oh, sorry. Wait, you know what? Hawk has had his finger up five minutes, and I know that everyone listening can't hear it because it's an audio medium, but, Hawk, let's get your thought, and I'm going to throw it over to Mazzella. [01:08:22] Speaker C: Thank you, Steve. Because the point I wanted to make went into expectations where I like how really, like, how Jamata brought up that way about could potentially be the unofficial second seed from the LPL. Obviously, I'm not as well versed in the LPL as some of the others here, but I've been really impressed watching way of those tape, and I feel like this team has just as good of a chance of being, like, a dark horse to win the whole thing just like they were last year. As you know, they could potentially bomb out with meta changes or whatever. Like, I really like this team. I think they're very, very dangerous, and I have them pretty highly ranked. [01:08:56] Speaker A: I really want to tag onto that last point very briefly. I find it hilarious that they made it to finals last year, because if they dark horsed it to finals this year, I would have understood it infinitely more than them doing it last year. Yeah, well, they got to do it again. Again. I also think, like, if they make the top four, I wouldn't be surprised because that's just how strong I do think this way, both team is being capable, is capable of playing. Reminder, they are fourth seed because they lost in finals and didn't have good championship points. They were the second best team in. [01:09:32] Speaker D: I'll just say, yeah, if you. If you want a really succinct way of doing it, they could be last or they could be first, baby. [01:09:39] Speaker E: Let's go. We gotta love the. [01:09:41] Speaker C: We love it. [01:09:42] Speaker B: That's my goats right there. All right, well, that'll do it for LPL, then. We're going to cover LCk next. And then at the very end, we're going to do final kind of closing arguments and expectations of who he thinks gonna actually go all the way and win worlds. Who has the better chance as a region to do so as well. Just like power levels of all the teams combined going in. But thank you for our LPL correspondents, Mizel and Jamad. The experts coming on. Both of you are at LPL finals there all week, doing the regional qualifiers as well. So happy to get the experts to give their opinions. And now to give the air quote, experts some chance to talk about LCK as well as a heads up. If you don't know all the information, pull up your leaguepedias right now, or liquidpedia, whatever you prefer. Because we're going to go through basically the same format for LCK teams, talking about how they qualified into worlds, how they looked doing it, and then general thoughts on the teams, because now it's time to talk about the region with the reigning world champions, lck first seed h le on life with adoran, peanut, zecca, viper delight. Cubby, I'm going to throw this one over to you to kick things off. As somebody who has been on the lck broadcast in the past, so you are the closest to an expert that we have. [01:10:59] Speaker C: Experts is a lot of put on us, man. [01:11:01] Speaker B: I know. I'm just going to keep saying the word to make you all a little more stressed. Happy to have you on to talk about this because of course, it would be much better than me fumbling around through it all. But, kelly, basically the same thing. How they qualify in and how they look doing it for hle. [01:11:14] Speaker E: I mean, hanwha had a pretty crazy win against gen g. Like, snapped what would have been one of the most senior dominant lck splits of all time if Gen G were to win? I don't know exactly where it would fall. [01:11:25] Speaker C: Like, all the splits years of all time. [01:11:28] Speaker E: Yeah. Gen G has just been crazy this year. And I think a lot of people coming into the tournament expect more out of gen G than they do hanwha. That said, there were quite a few things going for Hanwha that I feel like really helped them. First off, being Zecha is back to being sick of mode, which is pretty nice. Zecha, as a mid laner after they won with DRX, he really didn't have a good last year on this roster. This year, he is playing really well. I think that he's gotten better at the ad champions, but also the fact that he has yone Azir in the meta is good. And I. Yeah, I. I mean, I know that he's known for the melee mids, but I think his ori, like, I think Ori is actually going to be a very good pick for him as well as syndrome. If that ends up, I don't know, as cinder as well, but. Or he should be a champ that Zach is fine on. It was a part of the DRX run, too. And Peanut has also been playing really good league. This guy. I feel like my concern with Peanut is just always that he plays better domestically than he does internationally. Like, I swear, Doran and Peanut are the chokers of all time, but for them and delight to take down Gen G and prevent that sick run was really cool to see. And I hope that we see Peanut perform because he has been playing really, really good, mostly in the role. So not the carry role, but peanut's been having a fantastic split. [01:12:53] Speaker C: Yeah. And, I mean, kind of something I wrote in my. My power rankings that I'm putting out are that right now I feel like rock's Peanut and DRX Zecha are playing on Summoner's rift. And, like, I think that's what HLA needs to be a top contender in this tournament, but I think they're playing really well. Also, matt, I know we alluded to this earlier, but, you know, the one player you didn't get a chance to talk about yet? I think Viper is the best ad carry in the world right now. [01:13:22] Speaker E: This guy's. This guy's insane. I mean, I don't know if he's the best, but he's like, he is really good. I'm excited to watch him. So. He is insane. [01:13:31] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, and I think, like, that's the main thing to know about Hle is, like, I think it's valid that, like, Gen G probably still has higher, higher expectations than them. They've been the top performers the entire year, but I think HLE is still a really dangerous team. They don't have too many super obvious weaknesses. They managed to take down Gen G, and I don't know about you guys, I personally have, like, BLG and Gen G are probably my two favorites for the tournament, but I think I have HLe rated higher than the LPL pack, if that makes sense. Like, like, top esports, like, way about gaming. I think I have HLE on that next level, especially because I do feel like this is a good meta for them. Peanut on skirmish, junglers, zekka being able to play, like, kind of whatever he wants. You know what I mean? Like, one V nine ADC's for Viper. I think this is going to be a. A good tournament for them. [01:14:24] Speaker E: I'm a little bit more concerned about the meta changes for him. I don't. Like. I think peanut plays a very different role now for this team. Like, he is pretty much just there for map support, right? Like, he's very good at it. But I do think that, like, a couple of his champs, if it ends up being Jarvan, I think peanut will be fine. But I think that the way that he's playing on, like, the Sej Malachi is actually, like, potentially legitimate edge against LPL teams, and that will be something interesting to, like. See, is what the jungle meta ends up being, because if a team strays from it and it ends up not being Jarvan, zinn or, like, you get still, like, the mount, I think the malachi is still playable. It's just weaker. Like, that is a very big pick for peanut, but some of the picks that are coming up in the meta can punish it harder early on, which could be issues for Hle if they don't adapt. Uh. Cause again, like, peanut for me was whatever jungle pick, like, he was playing. Like, he would get. He would be active early, but, like, you aren't useless later on. And that, I feel like, does really help the way that hle plays with just having viper in the back line. Yeah. [01:15:31] Speaker C: Create space for Viper, for sure. [01:15:32] Speaker E: Yeah. [01:15:33] Speaker B: I think it's just so cool, the story of this team, and even, like, the second seed with Chovy on it. But how good that Griffin roster was. Mandev, the, like, 2018 run that they had, I remember, like, that was the first time that I really ever paid any attention to lck outside of just t one or skt at the time at worlds and stuff. But just hearing, like, oh, wait, this is like a group of, a bunch of young players. Like, most of them in their first year, they're cracked. And now seeing that they're like the old dogs now they've graduated, and now they're becoming legends here. Like, talking about Viper as if he could be the best ad carry. You know, Doran's up there, Tarzan's over in Wavo. [01:16:10] Speaker A: Right? [01:16:11] Speaker C: Is that whole roster it was lens as well. [01:16:14] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah. [01:16:15] Speaker C: They're all, like, top three in their respective role in the entire world right now. [01:16:19] Speaker E: Like, crazy shout out to fucking Sora, the biggest griefer on the planet, you know? [01:16:23] Speaker B: Oh. [01:16:25] Speaker C: Instead, lck sent Gen G to that world championship to lose to cloud nine. Thank you. [01:16:30] Speaker B: It's true, but, yeah, I mean, history aside, what do we think that's stealing for Hle? Is it the first seed? Seed? They kind of stole it from Gen G. They still earned it in that win. It didn't feel like it was like a fluke or like a. Oh, this was Gen G just, you know, pissing themselves here in the finals. But what do we think that means for the technical first seed from LCK coming? Start with you. Do you think, first off, that they are the strongest team, or do you think that's still debatable? And then what do you think their ceiling is? What do you think their floor is? [01:17:01] Speaker E: I don't think they're the strongest team. And what honestly might be a hot take is I think they could be the third best team coming out of Korea. I I think that the meta changes for d plus are really, really, really good for them. Like, it very much fits what showmaker and lucid want to do more, like, given the ways that I've seen them play. So I I think that hanwha, like, the expectation. I think their expectation should be top four. I don't have a ton of faith for them, though. I think that there are some matchups that they could draw in top eight where they might not be able to move on. So I'm really interested to see how they play. I just. I don't have a ton of faith in peanut man, for whatever. I. I've seen too many international turns where this guy's just ran it. I see them, and I can't. I came in Doran, man. I just cannot. So I hope they can, like, prove me wrong the way they did in LCK finals, like, sincerely, but I don't have. Hanua is, like, the strongest representative from this region. [01:17:59] Speaker A: Mmm. [01:18:00] Speaker B: Okay, well, what is. What is the ceiling then, though, on that one? Do you think that they still could make a push for finals for top four? [01:18:08] Speaker E: They can. Like, they have talent, but it kind of depends, like, part of why my expectation for them is lower, just because, like, former players in the past, but, I mean, these guys have, you know, former world champions on their team. I think these. These guys can do decent. I just. I don't have a lot of faith in Hama. I really don't. [01:18:30] Speaker B: Yeah, let's hear the cope. [01:18:31] Speaker C: So I don't think they're the best team out of the LCK. I do think that's Gen G. However, I think Hla's expectation is absolutely top four, and I think their ceiling is winning the tournament. I think this team should be looking at doing that. Like I said, I think Viper is just the best ad carry in the world. Peanut and Zecha, I agree with you. Like, they need to keep their form. If they choke, they choke. Right? And I'm also. I do agree with you, cubby. I don't think Doran is that guy compared to some of the other best top laners in the world, but he's good enough, and we've seen it a lot of world championships, that a top laner being good enough is usually serviceable. And I think if the rest of the team can play the way that they have, I really do think this team is. Should consider them. Excuse me, I hit my mic. Should consider themselves a top four team. I have them more strongly in there than, like I said, top esports and way of. However, I do agree with the sentiment that they're not like 100% safe. I think Gen GM, BlG are the only, like, quote unquote shoe ins and then everybody else is kind of hoping, but I've got hle right there. I think this team is exceptionally strong, even if they're not a favorite. [01:19:38] Speaker E: I will push back on top lane not being important just because I think that actually the last few world championships, it has been the best top laner that's won. Zeus was the big difference for me with t one's run last year. And then do you think Kingan was. [01:19:52] Speaker B: The best top laner? [01:19:52] Speaker E: Honestly? Yeah, because he would drop shit at the best times and they just get advantages on the map because of that. But it'll be interesting because lane swap is going to be very visible for this tournament. So I'm actually interested to see if that holds or differs from the past. I think tops actually been, like, super important for the last three or four worlds. I really think that tops define a lot of the tournament. [01:20:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I am thinking back that finals King and did actually just smash finals pretty hard. [01:20:20] Speaker E: He just dropped. He just would drop shit for 45 seconds and just be in the perfect spot and it was ridiculous. And yeah, I mean, king and we'll see if he can do that on d plus, who I know wasn't super inspiring and lck, but I actually have some hopes for them. But we'll talk about them later. [01:20:35] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's time to talk about the second seed next up here. So we'll wait a little bit longer for King and. But second seed, hawk, I'm going to have you start us off for this one. Gen G with keen, Canyon, Chovy, pays and lahens. How'd they get into worlds and how'd they look doing it? [01:20:50] Speaker C: Yeah, so, I mean, I'm honestly, we already talked a lot about gen g during the hle section season. They were on the precipice of the greatest LCk season of all time, if not one of the greatest, just seasons of all time. They were supposed to be the next. [01:21:04] Speaker B: Golden road looking the golden road. [01:21:05] Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah. Unfortunately, hle stole their brick, and it's going to be a little bit incomplete with a impressive three two and finals. But, like, I'm just going to come straight out and say it. I think Gen G should still be alongside BLG, the favorites to win the entire tournament. Canyon and Chovy are the best mid jungle in the world. Like, straight up, I think they are insane. And then you have keen, peis and lahens. Peis and lahens have been really good at. I feel like for Gen G, being able to do a lot of different stuff. Same with Keen, who has been a keen Sante merchant, but also able to kind of play anything that the team needs him to here and there and play it really well. Similarly, I feel like Canyon can do a lot of different things really, really well. We know Lehans can do that. I don't think there's one definitive Gen G style that's made them so scary, which is, I think, a big reason why I like them going into worlds. And even though they did drop that series to hle, you know, prove that they're not gods, they can bleed, but also that I think that might be a good thing. It kind of brings them back to earth, and, I mean, this team's just so scary. [01:22:13] Speaker E: I think the biggest concern for Gen G is, like, their week. They're so damn good that sometimes their weakness is just them being stubborn in terms of, like, how they play and what they play. And with the meta shift coming in, it's actually, like, for me, it's kind of a nerf to Chovy. I know Chovy is insane, but I think that a lot of the other mids, like, benefit more if it ends up being an ori syndrome meta than Chovy does. Because for me, Chovy is still outstanding when he's playing melee's like that for me is like, I know that, like, chovy is really good at a lot of things, but I think that, like, how he plays in spaces with that is crazy still. But like, I mean, this is a meta where I do feel like showmaker gets pretty buffed up by having these champs in the meta show me. I don't know as much. I'll be curious. I'll be really curious to see what kind of rage engine has in here. Other concerns, like, I think a big part of the reason they lost finals is, I thought, delight just actually straight up, like, gapple hands in the series. I'm not super concerned for that moving forward, I think, well, hence is like, honestly really good for this team. And just like, he gets creative, he'll see shit and open up any space for Chovy and pays, and it's great. But I'm interested what ends up happening in this meta, because for me, a lot of the times Gen G, they'll put pays on a hard carry. Like pays, he's going to play the zeri, he's going to play the ezreal. But I think that this could be a meta where we're going to see a lot of, like, gin jinx, a lot of ash, a lot of varys still. And that doesn't, like, I think a lot of things in this meta don't set up as well for Gen G is what we saw, like them used to get here. And so I'm a little bit more concerned than most in terms of how well I think they're going to do. I still think the expectation should be for them to win like they much like blg. If it's not top one, then it can be seen as a bummer. But I think that a lot of the changes coming in affect this team in a way that I don't think is positive for them. [01:24:01] Speaker B: Okay, interesting. So I don't remember hearing any definitive though, like, ceiling floor stated, other than just expectation that they would be up there with BLG. So is the ceiling just if you're one of the favorites, it would be finals. But what's the floor like? What is disaster for this team is that. I mean, obviously not making top eight, but is like, top, not top four disaster for them. Like, even if they make quarter finals, but they lose there, that's like a big disappointment. [01:24:27] Speaker C: I legit think that it is a disaster if they don't make the grand finals unless they roll BLG in semis, similar to how Jamata laid it out for BLG as well, I think if they are not in finals, they better have lost to BLG in top four, or that is like a very disappointing end to gen G season after what they. [01:24:48] Speaker E: I mean, we'll see what the tournament brings. Like, there could be a team that, like, going in, you know, ends up being really good that we didn't see coming. [01:24:55] Speaker C: I still think it would be a catastrophic failure for Gen G, though. Like, like, I'm not saying that to take anything away from a team that comes up, but I think Gen G doesn't matter how good anyone else gets, they should just still beat them. [01:25:05] Speaker B: Right. [01:25:06] Speaker E: So, yeah, it's a bummer if they don't win. This team is where it's at, but, yeah, based. [01:25:12] Speaker B: Based on power level expectations at every international event and every time I've heard Gen g brought up, it just feels like they're on this pedestal of godsen in 2024. So I think they bled, steve. They bled, bled. They did bleed in the lck finals, and I think that's cause for concern. But it also just proves that it is that hard to be that good for a full year. G two can do it in Europe, but it has been proven almost impossible anywhere else in the world to really pull off that level of dominance that Gen G had shown throughout 2020. [01:25:46] Speaker E: Yeah, I. Do you have any thoughts on these guys, germano? Like, obviously, I know that you guys. [01:25:51] Speaker A: Are Lp folks, but, yeah, it's. It's very difficult to keep up with the LCk. [01:25:54] Speaker E: Yeah, it is when you're an LPL schedule and then how aggressive LPL is, too. Yeah, yeah. Like, I get. [01:26:00] Speaker A: Also, what was worse, just to half the year of the topic, briefly, I took a sabbatical in the middle of summer. [01:26:08] Speaker E: I was. [01:26:09] Speaker A: I was gone for the entire of the rebel stage of the LPL, and even catching back up on the rumble once I came back in playoffs. [01:26:17] Speaker E: Oh, it's so many vods. [01:26:18] Speaker A: It. [01:26:18] Speaker E: Yeah. [01:26:19] Speaker A: Oh, man. Yeah, it felt like a nightmare fuel, honestly. So, yeah, it was a bit difficult. [01:26:25] Speaker E: Yeah. [01:26:25] Speaker B: Well, no worries, Jamata. That is minus points for team LCK for asking for help from the LPL expert. [01:26:31] Speaker E: I was asking for perspective, man. [01:26:33] Speaker B: Cubby. [01:26:34] Speaker C: Cubby's secret agent. [01:26:35] Speaker B: LPL guy here, he really is. [01:26:37] Speaker E: I mean, he's sitting here being like. [01:26:40] Speaker C: I'm concerned about Hle. I'm like, no, they're gonna. They're gonna make top four, no problem. [01:26:44] Speaker E: No, I mean, I think. I think realistic. Both regions are sending a really good. Some really good teams, you know. [01:26:51] Speaker C: No, it's gonna be good it's gonna be good. [01:26:52] Speaker B: Is tradition between these two regions. Let's keep moving things along here because it's time for the third seed from LCK with DK plus. Yeah, in insane. [01:27:05] Speaker E: I honestly don't think it's that much cope. I think that the patch coming in like actually helps his team so fucking much. Like when Lucid was really making a name for himself, like he was like a Lee sin player, you know, like we sin Viego a lot of it. He loves the brawlers. I feel like he played at times. I feel like Lucid did it get the credit that he deserved, just being a younger player because oftentimes it's like he's the fall guy if this team doesn't work out. But I think I that like for Lucid the experience, double the hat like he has. I actually have quite a bit of confidence in him to be not the top jungler in the tournament. But I don't think he's going to be a liability. And I think the meta shifts really good for him. If it does end up being stuff like Jarvan Zin Lee. Like that fits Lucid's wheelhouse with showmaker much better because showmaker, historically champs that he's known for is control mage mid that can affect the map. Like he's known for the TF, he's known for the Blanche. His ori syndrome are fantastic. It seems like that's going to be close to what the meta is. Showmaker is willing to play anything and everything, like to find wins. I really. I'm actually excited to see showmaker play at this tournament. It feels like showmaker. He talked in the past about not having as much fun with league and it does feel like he's having some sort of fun this year. I do think really matters for him because he likes to be a showman. That and aiming. A lot of people have talked about how good aiming has been. Aiming has been like actually a humongous carry for this team. I am a wee bit concerned that again, it's going to be more of a utility based ad role. I do feel like a lot of the LCK teams, like they like their eighties. Being hyper carries a little bit more than what we've seen globally. And I do think that nerfs aiming a little bit. I kind of like the argument I was using for pays, but I could also see a world where just given that they have king in the top side, they say fuck it, and then they don't do that. And then the obvious hole is going to be how good Mohammed is. He knew. [01:29:01] Speaker B: So I'm going to cut you off there because there's two names that I've never actually seen before here at the international stage, or I don't watch LCK. So they're just new on my radar, too. So talk to me. The roster is king and lucid showmaker Amy. [01:29:16] Speaker E: Yeah. [01:29:16] Speaker B: And you said it was Mohammed, not Kellen because Kellan's also listed on the roster. Tell me about this player. [01:29:22] Speaker E: They should bring both, by the way. [01:29:24] Speaker B: Okay. [01:29:25] Speaker E: Mohammed was. He's been in challengers for a while. He's kind of bounced up and down. I think he played with non shim because he got LcK time last year. I'd have to check the Wikipedia, but. [01:29:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I got the leak PD up in front of me right now before DK chat. Plus it was DK Challenger and KDFD. Oh, okay. [01:29:42] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He put. He played with Quangdong. So he's been the support, like, that's been kind of trying to break in. And I think at LCK in particular, it's really hard to break in as a support. Support's the role that for me, it takes like, time, is always going to be your friend as just maturing as support, because you do have to view the game in all five roles. And Mohammad is someone that. He has a very good sense of when to engage, but will oftentimes do a lot of griefing in order to get there sometimes, which is okay, but he is going to be. I think he could be a liability in this tournament. We'll see. But I have a lot of faith in DK. I feel like just having King in the top side works really well for aiming. You know, that king is going to be the one that's going to sack things and aiming is going to get all the resources that he wants. Showmaker will sack things for aiming. I think that they. I'm just really curious that they kind of carve out their own niche in a meta that I do think is going to be very much defined by, like, like, utility bots and, like, damage mid. I think that that could be difficult for them to circumnavigate. But if they do, I actually think this team could be, like, potentially better than HLE, which I know is a bit of a hot take coming in. But, man, like, this is the matter you want for showmaker, man, if it's Ori syndrome, like, I mean, this is like his fucking jam. [01:30:58] Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, that. That's going to be the name that jumps out clearly. From just the roster itself and expectations will follow that to talk a little. [01:31:06] Speaker C: Bit about lucid as well. I know you also asked about that, Steve. Yeah. So lucid also. Young jungler. I believe this is his first year in the LCK. I was looking at the league PD literally last night, but I don't remember. [01:31:17] Speaker B: I got it here. Yeah, we have D plus from November 2023. So that would have been off season joining. He was on DK challengers and then Dom one gaming Kia challenge before that. So two years of Challenger development. [01:31:28] Speaker C: So Lucy actually has been really sick I think, since he's come up. Actually like the guy. Early pathing, very efficient in the way he farms his camps, moves around the map. I think he's really like one of the cerebral type of junglers. Oftentimes finds himself in the right place in the right time. I actually think Lucid is one of the best players on this team. Alongside Matt talked a lot about aiming. I think Lucid's had a really, really good year. However, aside from that, Matt, I need you to look me in the eye on this podcast and tell me that damn one's issues are just meta based. This team looked like shit. Can we talk about that for a little bit, please? [01:32:03] Speaker E: They sometimes look like shit and then sometimes they don't. And it's not all metabase for the last month. [01:32:09] Speaker C: It's not all metabolism for the last month. [01:32:12] Speaker E: It's not all metabase. It's just the fact that like, I mean, Genshin Hoe were just very clearly the two strongest teams. And I think that the meta shifts help this team a lot. [01:32:21] Speaker C: I am with you, but I do think a really important part of the damn one story is that this team has not looked good for the last month or so. They got swept out of playoffs by t one. They did beat t one in the regional final in one of the most disgusting five game series I've ever had. [01:32:39] Speaker D: The. [01:32:40] Speaker E: But that's perhaps your guilty. Yeah, it was, it was those series. [01:32:45] Speaker C: It was rough and, and they also were uncompetitive, I believe it was against HlE and they finished, what, third place in regular season, which is a good showing. But I do think d plus this season has shown that while they are pretty consistently the third or the fourth best team, I would have the is the fourth best team out of the LCK actually I think is better. I really do think this team has some problems. There's a lot of unforced errors that they make. You mentioned that Mohammed can be a griefer. I mean, he had to come in because Kellen is also a griefer king in has looked good on some of his champions, but, you know, he's had some really bad games. He's suspect, man. Could be Norway truck up on side lanes on like rumble and get caught out all the time. [01:33:29] Speaker E: If it's Nara Aatrox, you get Camille in. And that's the matter that he won with. [01:33:33] Speaker C: Been going down like 50 cs every game last month. [01:33:37] Speaker E: He sacks everything. But I know Resender, he's not going to be sacking everything. They'll play towards him, which is the dream. [01:33:42] Speaker C: We'll see. [01:33:43] Speaker B: Like, I just. [01:33:44] Speaker C: I think it's an important part of the story is that D plus has looked bad. [01:33:48] Speaker B: Okay, real quick though, LPL experts have had unity, at least LCK experts already. [01:33:54] Speaker E: Well, we aren't the experts. You know, it's fine. [01:33:57] Speaker B: I just. [01:33:58] Speaker C: I just got to bring this up because I think, like, understandably, Matt built up this team. Like, I think there are things to be excited for, excited for, for D. [01:34:04] Speaker E: Plus, but this is my opium. I feel like people look at this team and they're like, this is the team much like last year that will not make it to quarters, right? [01:34:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:34:12] Speaker E: And I don't feel. I feel much better about, like, d plus this year, like, on our own. [01:34:17] Speaker C: I don't know. [01:34:18] Speaker E: I know that. I know I'm in the minority in this, but I see the players, I see the meta change also. Like, again, lucid when he was playing in challengers, like, he was not known to be the jungle that he is now. I feel like, like if it gets back to a wheelhouse, that's his. He's actually, like a really talented player. And I know that a couple of years ago, like, when teams were going over and scrimming the D plus challengers, teams, like, I had multiple people be like, dude, lucid's really good. Like, I think. I'm really hopeful that he has a pop off tournament. I really am. [01:34:45] Speaker C: Lucid is someone that everyone should have their eyes on, but I. I'm going to definitely take the opposite angle. I think has bigger fish to fry in their gameplay. And I do think I actually have them as potentially the weakest eastern team coming into the tournament. Depending on how LNG does with the ago. I think this team has a lot of problems. [01:35:04] Speaker A: I. [01:35:05] Speaker C: Hey, I'm down if they solve them. I think it's a very fun team and they are good. [01:35:09] Speaker B: But yeah, I mean, you're. You're saying they could be the weakest out of the eight coming from LPL LCK. But I mean, I can't believe it hasn't come up at any point in conversation yet. I mean, I guess we've been talking about the other teams, but still, sometimes it just does come up. We start talking about the teams below them as well. But t one's the fourth seed and just for the sake of time, I want to move on to that because I feel like that is the perfect bridge. If you're saying DK could be the. The lowest ranked t one have not looked super convincing coming into this tournament. So, hog, let's just have you pick up from there, then talk to me about t one because they're, they're the fourth c. They're the ones that's ranked last of the LCA K team. So real quick, same thing. Like, how'd they get here and how did they look specifically? [01:35:51] Speaker C: So this might be a really interesting conversation because maybe Matt and I will have an opposite take. I'm actually going to cope for t one. And obviously all of this conversation about, like, worst eastern team again comes with the asterisk of, like, we don't know what's up with LNG and how good they're going to look. Hoping for the best, obviously. [01:36:06] Speaker E: I have, I have. LNG is the worst. So. All right, yeah. [01:36:09] Speaker C: So asterisk next to them, though. But t one coming in, they have looked similarly to D plus really, really bad, if I'm being honest. Unforced errors galore. I think owner and Faker in particular have been struggling massively in the back half of the summer split in the LCK. Owner has been struggling with early game productivity. He's looked, I mean, I'm going to be honest, like, a little bit lifeless in his games. Faker does not have a yone, which is arguably the strongest champion in mid lane coming into worlds. I think those are two really big problems. Zeus, Gumiusha, Gumiushi and Kerria have largely kept up their individual form despite some things here or there. I think Kerria in particular as well as they just had a pretty good series in the best of five against KT to actually make it here, where they again barely scraped through. I want everyone to know, by the way, that t one had a quadruple match point to make worlds. They had two tries against D plus and then two tries against KT and they went to the fourth one. It was scary, man. But they actually flexed the yone away from Faker in game five against KT. [01:37:15] Speaker E: Because they should, bro. [01:37:17] Speaker C: Can't play it. [01:37:17] Speaker E: Yeah. Yeah. One of the champ. That's my favorite stat, by the way. [01:37:22] Speaker B: Yeah, he's what? [01:37:23] Speaker E: He's four and one on yone, but he really can't play it. [01:37:25] Speaker C: No, faker cannot play it. [01:37:26] Speaker E: Yeah, I'm surprised that you highlighted that, though. Cause, like, I feel like, again, like my code for t one would be his. Corki and Trist were legitimately bad. [01:37:33] Speaker C: So I need to get to my cope. Yeah, I need to get to my cope. Because that's like everything I hate about t one. What I do like about t one is I. This is like, really cope. I think the rest is kind of needed for them. They've had a very, very long season. They looked to me like a team that was just burnt out, like, gameplay wise, because I think a lot of their issues, like I said, were unforced and or meta dependent. And a little bit of time is the kind of thing that I have reason to believe can alleviate a lot of those problems. We know the individual heights that this team can get to. And not only that, I mean, like, let's still remember that they largely, I thought, were better than D throughout the vast majority of the LCK 2024 season. So even though I think it's fair to say that they're behind HLE and Gen G, I do think t one is still a team. Like, when they're playing their best, that shouldn't be the fourth best Lck team. And not only that, I mean, when they're playing their absolute best, we know how good they can be. You know, meta changing more towards simple skirmishers for owner mages, for faker. Again, with the exception of yone, I think, you know, side laners for zayus. Gumi Yoshi looks so good on things like Varus. Like, I think the time off the meta changes is really going to be big for t one. And I actually still expect them to be a contender at this tournament. [01:38:56] Speaker E: And the concern is just like, where faker's at, because he was not playing well. [01:38:59] Speaker C: He was not playing well. [01:39:00] Speaker E: He's fighting like an injury, right? Like, it's pretty open. So I think the other thing is, like, Zeus just did not. Zeus and t one did not deal well with the swaps, which I think was a big part of the reason why, like, some of the other people struggled and then mid was just losing. So we'll see. I mean, the coat, the ultimate cope is that if you are t one, like, I think it's very fair to say that with this iteration, they have always showed up international tournaments. Like, what the records, like, what? 2nd? 2nd? 1st, 1st. Like, with all these internationals, they've been playing like, it really feels like top two is still the expectation for a team that is even, like, really struggling and their play, I'd put them nowhere close to that. I don't think it's super unreasonable to be like this has to be the expectation because you are t one and you are still with this roster. [01:39:45] Speaker D: Right. [01:39:45] Speaker B: They are the defending champions after all. [01:39:47] Speaker E: Four worlds, and they beat def to get lck four seed buff, you know. [01:39:51] Speaker B: True, true. There we go. So I think, yeah, for this one ceiling. Just because of the history of this roster and the team. Yes. Finals. Winning finals ceiling. [01:40:02] Speaker E: I mean, my quarters, I think they're out in quarters. [01:40:05] Speaker B: Okay. That's what I was going to ask. I think the more interesting thing is where we think expectations in the floor is for them. So we think it's disappointing if they don't make quarters. [01:40:13] Speaker C: I think for me, I think they're very much a bubble semis team, where they can make semis, but it's nothing. Not a hard expectation. I have them similarly to teams like Wayabo, who I've talked about in my opinions of them, where, like, you know, someone can't. Someone. Someone out of hle, Gen, G, blg, top esports and Weibo doesn't make top four. I don't know who it is, but it's more than likely for me. Oh, I guess two of those teams don't make semis, right? It's more than likely for me. T one and way about or top maybe. [01:40:50] Speaker E: I mean, I. I want to draw t one and quarters in this tournament. I. I do. [01:40:54] Speaker C: I think I agree with that. I think I agree with that. [01:40:56] Speaker E: I really want to draw t one. I. That's something drastically changes. I think the meta. Like what you're saying for as much as I was like, hey, it's not great for pace ramming. This is Kuma's motto. He is so fucking good. [01:41:06] Speaker C: So good. Yeah. [01:41:08] Speaker A: I think if history is anything to go by, because I have a very fun stat for you guys. Did you know that t one, every single world they've attended, they've finished four or higher. It's semis. All like every minimum finish for t one there. [01:41:25] Speaker B: The in 28. [01:41:30] Speaker A: By the way, a lot of them are just making finals. Just for clarity, what? [01:41:34] Speaker C: G two beat them in 2020. Who else even knocked them out in semis? [01:41:39] Speaker A: DK in 2020. Yeah, 2021. That's something like that. [01:41:43] Speaker C: Yeah, you're right. [01:41:44] Speaker B: That's crazy. [01:41:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Like so if we're to go by history. Yes. But again, I think there's just functionally right now, t one are just not good. [01:41:54] Speaker E: Yeah. [01:41:55] Speaker A: End of the. [01:41:55] Speaker B: Is that a buff or a debuff? Expectations are so low now. [01:41:59] Speaker A: The expectations if. Now, if you ask a t one fan, they're gonna win worlds, but if you ask someone who, you know, wakes up and has a evenly balanced breakfast, they're going to tell you that they're probably not gonna. Gonna go further than. [01:42:11] Speaker B: Cause we stay in evenly balanced breakfast on this part. [01:42:15] Speaker A: There you go. For me, here's how I stand on t one. Again, I'm not overly versed on the lck, but I am versed on the history of t one. I think the only thing that potentially saves them is if they find their own unique identity that no one else can figure out. And why do I say this? I just simply used case study of last year. That's it. It's the. It's the only thing that I can actually see t one, you know, edging out some kind of genuine advantage. Cause onwards. Because I think, you know, swiss, whatever. Like, if even in your form, if you can't beat western teams and I don't think you even deserve to be in top eight, you make it to top eight, everyone is gonna be playing what is the presumed mare at that point. There might be, like, one outlier team that's playing one or two weird champions. Typically, always is probably damn one, probably dam one. T one have to, you know, break some boundaries and kind of, you know, they're a team that's gonna have a lot of expectations around them. They're gonna have to break expectations throughout. And I don't think, you know, underdog is quite the fitting term because I think if again, you wake up and you eat an evenly balanced breakfast, it's. It's a really, really big mountain to overcome. Given everything that's overcome, they've had to overcome to even get here this year. [01:43:37] Speaker E: I mean, I always say with t one, I think the coolest part about this roster is that on any given day, four out of five of these players can be the best in their role in the world. I. We have seen t one do that. Right, and who's the fifth? Well, it's faker. Like, the faker is serviceable at worse. You know, like, he's. He's playing, like, obviously injured and still doing his best, and we've seen what that team looks like without him. So, um, I will see what kind of t one shows up. If you're a t one fan, I think that you can have all the copium in the world because this team has always showed up internationally and they've always competed at a higher level internationally than they then they have domestically, and that is something that's been true of this iteration of t one. [01:44:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm happy bringing up that point. And again, just that they are the reigning world champions, back to back finalists at worlds. This team, this roster is going to be a threat no matter where they presumed are coming in to the tournament. But that'll wrap up the LCK team coverage, which means there's one final thing to do for this episode of the pod, and that is to give all of our thoughts as to who is the tournament favorite that we think can take the whole thing, at least from these two regions. If somebody wants to throw out a g two Jamata, if you really want to go crazy with that, suppose you could. [01:44:53] Speaker E: Expectation should be g two makes quarters. [01:44:55] Speaker A: Can I, can I, can I open up with it? Maybe even. [01:44:57] Speaker B: Sure, yeah. All right. Yeah, I want to get everyone's thoughts and then we'll close out the episode. [01:45:01] Speaker A: So, Jamal, you so very briefly fly my, my european flag. Honestly, again, there was a lot of doubt domestically about g two summer onwards, right? Especially playoffs, and then even in part, a little bit in season finals, right? But this team is fucking good. They. They are exceptional as far as western standards are concerned. And again, if their performances are MSI or anything to go by, they're more than capable. They are simply their own worst enemy. This iteration of G two, they were the first team in the west to actually have lane swaps down effectively, right. That g two since 2019 2018 have always been the team in the west that continually brings new picks into meta, continually stretches the, you know, the norms of what is considered meta. And I think if, you know, what we're starting to see come out from champions queue and potentially from the Americas tournament, stuff like that is anything to go by. G two likelihood are going to be in a very, very solid spot as far as the game state is concerned. And on a gameplay level. Again, individually, players like caps playing exceptionally well. Yike. Yes. People are going to highlight his underperformance throughout the last few months, and I think that's a very, very fair critique, especially in what should be a very jungle heavy meta. But shifting away from AP junglers as a consistent thing, I think is just going to benefit g two highly, right? Being able to comfortably play xin Zhao Viego, maybe even sneak in some Lee sin, right, these are things that Yike, to me is a lot more comfortable on in comparison to those AP junglers. And I think Yike having lanes that can also enable him on those ad picks as opposed to him being on an AP champion. Where perhaps the way that you get to being enabled is slightly different, is a style of play that I think just favors g two better in terms of early skirmishing and transitioning that into mid game, you know, advantages and leads they can leverage. [01:46:59] Speaker B: If it's always interesting worlds. [01:47:05] Speaker E: Sure. [01:47:06] Speaker C: I think g two, flyquest and team liquid all have betting odds to win world. [01:47:10] Speaker A: Can I, can I, can I be honest? And it's gonna sound cope. [01:47:14] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [01:47:15] Speaker A: If for whatever reason blg and gen g meet each other and g two don't have to beat both of them. Yes. [01:47:24] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:47:25] Speaker E: Okay. [01:47:26] Speaker A: If they, if they have the worst. [01:47:28] Speaker E: Draw for them, by the way, I think do gee is right. The team you want to hands down. [01:47:31] Speaker A: Hands down, hands down. I think if they have to play, hell, I'll even write out the script for you. I think if they were to have to play blg and semis, they would lose. I think they would have to play blg and finals, they would have a much better shot of being blg. I think they would need more time to study a team like blg, okay. To break them down and actually come up with a solution, whether it be via draft or whether it be via gameplay. [01:47:55] Speaker E: Yeah. [01:47:55] Speaker A: With Ghdev. Yeah. Go ahead. [01:47:57] Speaker C: Europe against China in finals. [01:48:03] Speaker B: Counter point, point. [01:48:05] Speaker A: Cordially received and rejected, but certainly comprehended. [01:48:13] Speaker E: I mean, I will say like sometimes like the beauty of league is that it is who shows up on the day I had g two favorite over FBx going into that, I legitimately thought. [01:48:23] Speaker A: I think everyone did. Like, even if you had that meme. [01:48:27] Speaker C: Of the only one who predicted against. [01:48:29] Speaker B: Them, like guys, I don't know, look, look like. [01:48:32] Speaker A: And not to history lesson, but like that FPX team, no one had faith in the FBx team as far as I can remember from my own memory, right? No one. Everyone just thought they were starting the. [01:48:41] Speaker C: Tournament looking like shit too. Like they looked bad in their group. Yeah. [01:48:44] Speaker A: Right. [01:48:44] Speaker E: And then they played not mid. [01:48:46] Speaker A: And then doin b reminded everyone that actually the way, the most efficient way to play League of Legends is just have your mid laner be the second jungler. And then for whatever reason, after that season, we just all forgot that was the best way to play League of Legends. Anyway. I think if G could beat gen g, if gen g do the international thing, but gen G have finally broken that international curse. So is it even fair to say that Gen G are a team now that haven't really proven themselves internationally anymore because they just. They just come off the back of an Msi win. [01:49:20] Speaker B: Right. [01:49:20] Speaker A: So I think with BlG, despite the china curse of finals, if they. If they made it to finals and BlG was their opponent, I could actually see them winning gen g again. I think it's just about. That is actually entirely about Gen G. I don't think that has anything to do with g two at all. I think that is something where gen g just have fate in their hands and g two just have to not do what they did against t one at Msi against Gen G. And that kind of saying, yeah, okay, well, a. [01:49:48] Speaker B: Fun mental game to play right there. But I do want to put predictions to paper officially on the podcast and get everyone's thoughts on who they think is favorites, who they think will win worlds. Mizell. Hawk, we haven't heard from you as much on this conversation, so I'm going to start down there. Hawk, let's hear from you. Then we'll hear from Mizel, and then we'll get cubby Jamada in that order, and then I'll go last. So, Hawk, who in your opinion, is officially winning worlds? [01:50:14] Speaker C: I'll keep it short. I think Gen G is the favorite to win the world championship. I think BLG is right there next to them. And if we're talking about the regions as well, I slightly favor the pack from the LCK, but it's. It's close, though. [01:50:30] Speaker B: Okay. I like that you threw in at the end which region, overall, you feel is stronger, because from the discussion, it feels like LCK. But obviously, I'm coming in from a very third party perspective without a lot of information on either regions. But Mazelle, pen to paper, who do you think is winning worlds? [01:50:49] Speaker D: I would go with my heart this time around. I definitely think it's actually going to be top esports. I don't know. I just have this weird feeling that they're going to make the jack. I will say what I know. Sorry. [01:51:07] Speaker E: It's them and Weibo. [01:51:08] Speaker D: Yeah. Anyways, I think that somebody has to take out Gen G. You know, just clip them at the legs, take them out before the running of the finals, and it will be good. But overall, I think gen G has a really good chance. But I think top esports actually win it. [01:51:24] Speaker C: Spicy. [01:51:25] Speaker E: I love it. [01:51:25] Speaker B: Hey, I like it. That is spicy, and it makes things exciting, because I was worried we were only going to get lpl. People saying blg and lck people saying gen. Gabby, are you gonna buck that trend or are you gonna get us back on track? [01:51:36] Speaker E: No, I'm gonna say gen G. I think what shimano was talking about with, like, gen g versus g two and it all being about gen G, I feel like this tournament, in a way, is all about Gen G. And I'm just. I really want to see what kind of meta they play from opening day, because I do think that, like, early on in the tournament, you're gonna get a feel for whether or not gen g can win worlds. Because if they're, like, being stubborn and playing their nidalee and it starts not working out and they don't buck the trend at all, and I won't. Like, I will say, I actually think, like, nidalee's gonna be fine and for Canyon and Gen G, but, like, just if there are certain picks that they're playing that don't work out and they don't stray from it, like, that is the worst for Gen G. We've seen that hamper gen G in other tournaments, and if I really want to see what kind of really come in with. With this tournament, because I. This is a stubborn team, and it's partly because they're so damn good. They can afford to be, but it can also really hurt them. So. Yeah. [01:52:30] Speaker B: Okay, so we got Gen G. Hawk, you were you also gen G? [01:52:34] Speaker C: I was Gen G as well, but I gave a nod to Blg right next to them. Yeah. [01:52:39] Speaker B: So two gen G's. Nod to BlG and a top esports Jamata. What do you think? [01:52:45] Speaker E: Someone's got to say blg, bro. [01:52:47] Speaker A: It's blg. Yeah. [01:52:48] Speaker E: Look. [01:52:51] Speaker A: Again, not also because I'm the Lpl rep, but just. Just generally because surely, from the perspective of BlG, they don't fail welds twice, right? Like, back to back. Because realistically, they should have beat Weibo last year. They didn't. That's competition. They should have been the ones playing against t one in the finals. [01:53:16] Speaker E: Yep. [01:53:17] Speaker A: This year, they are the undisputed best team coming out of the LPL. There's no JDg debuff to hold them back their head and shoulders above the rest of the LPL pack. And it is realistically, in my head, just the Blg versus gen G, like, Msi rivalry, rematch between the two teams, night versus chovy, all of that good stuff. A scenario we haven't really touched on tonight. But of course, that also is pretty hype. So for me, again, I just think it's a blg race, and it's the onus is on Gen G to not choke, like, historically they have. But of course, recency has finally bucked that trend. [01:54:00] Speaker D: All I'm saying is that Ben and Wei have won every best of five they've ever played together, and all the way back to the RNG days. [01:54:11] Speaker C: That's actually really. [01:54:13] Speaker D: Maybe it's a recipe for success. Maybe it's time that Wav finds finally gets a trophy. That's not just MSi. That's a lot of cool storylines. [01:54:23] Speaker B: That is a really cool stat. But I will remind everybody, isn't there a curse for first seed from LPL going into worlds every year? I thought that that was, like, a thing, or am I just making. Oh, they were first seed. [01:54:37] Speaker D: Okay, that has the curse. [01:54:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:54:41] Speaker A: Yes. [01:54:41] Speaker C: They always. [01:54:42] Speaker B: Oh, well, you're the one that predicted second seed. Oh, boy. All right, well, that's everyone else. We got blg, two gen G's. We got a top esports. Clearly. Clearly. Speaking of not being superstitious, I'm a man of facts and logic, and I've heard out both sides. The team, team Giselle, Team hubby, Team Tl. And I gotta say, you know, in a two horse race, it's important to remember whose team's icon is a horse. [01:55:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:55:16] Speaker B: Team liquid all the way to God worlds. Nobody let them know all episode. And I think y'all are fools. So there we go. Boom. That's my official prediction. [01:55:26] Speaker C: I love it. [01:55:27] Speaker D: But really, his prediction is LPL. [01:55:30] Speaker B: I will be cheering more for LPL. I do actually think that they have a higher chance, legitimately. I do think BlG is my actual favorite to win the tournament, but I gotta be that na guy. And go, team. [01:55:43] Speaker D: Nobody saw it coming. It's a shocker. [01:55:46] Speaker B: Shocked everybody right there. Why did Steve want to wait till the last to do it? All right, well, thanks so much for coming on, everybody. Cubby, for taking time out of your day. I know you're a very busy guy with all of your other podcasts going on. [01:55:58] Speaker E: I am on this week. This was great. [01:56:00] Speaker B: Well, you could have at least let me glaze you a little longer before. [01:56:03] Speaker E: Never slang. [01:56:06] Speaker B: Either way. Thanks for coming on as another guest returning to the podcast. Thank you so much, Jamada, for coming out for the first time. I'm happy we've been talking for a long time, trying to get you on, and happy that we were able to get you on to discuss pre worlds. If you want to be on anytime during worlds or after worlds, we would love to have you back, but of course, we can talk about that afterwards. But anything you want to plug any, like, stuff going on on your end that you want our listeners to be aware of. [01:56:29] Speaker A: Yeah. If you're not involved, I'm currently waging a war against. I will dominate. It was a completely. [01:56:34] Speaker B: I've noticed. [01:56:36] Speaker A: So for that, for the. For the league rundown viewers. Well, actually, what's. What's better is that people underneath these tweets have been saying, yeah, guys, you know, Jamada and Dom are like friends, man. Like, you know, they both cover the LPL. This that. I don't think I've actually sat down and spoke to Dom once. This is just all unprovoked, hilarious Twitter beef for the bag. [01:56:58] Speaker E: Yeah. [01:56:58] Speaker A: Which. Which makes this infinitely better. And it all started because he just tweeted about James Harden being on the LPL. And it's definitely a meme that I've been aware of throughout the entirety of this year, but he made it mainstream. So now it's all out war and Dom needs to be toppled. He's. He's gone too big for his boots and we're gonna figure out something. So support the Twitter beef. You see the tweets on the timeline? [01:57:24] Speaker B: Give them. [01:57:24] Speaker A: Give him a like. Give him a retweet. [01:57:26] Speaker B: Yeah, give Jamar's a like. [01:57:27] Speaker E: Yes. [01:57:27] Speaker A: Specifically, make sure, you know, you boo Dom, like, throw tomorrows at him, like, physically in person. If you see him, like, go grab a tomato and throw one at him. Like, it's the old theater players. [01:57:40] Speaker B: Yeah, well, we don't endorse hate or acts of any kind of violence on this podcast. But I suppose Jamada, as our guest is allowed to request that. Dom, you did not hear that from us on the Lee Grahad. This is Jamada. Does not speak or endorse the opinion. [01:57:57] Speaker A: My opinions on my own. [01:57:59] Speaker B: Yes. There we go. There you go. But thank you so much for coming on. Where can people find you if they want to follow you on Twitter or any other socials? [01:58:06] Speaker A: That's at Jamada. Lol. Very simple. Twitch. Just the clean Jamada. J a m a d a. Yeah. Keeping up with all of the champions queue stuff, worlds news, all of that. Good gem. Whilst all of the, you know, content and such is being pumped out, are. [01:58:26] Speaker B: You going to co stream any of the champs queue? I know that was a big thing here in Na when we were hosting was like, being able to stream that. [01:58:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I'm going to be doing my best to, you know, tap into some of the strong lobbies. I also need to apparently speak with the admin running it because apparently you need rights and I don't know because I just kind of showed up and started watching games earlier. [01:58:48] Speaker E: So you know, I mean base just a passionate fan. [01:58:52] Speaker A: No, because genuinely I just want to see, I had no idea. So it's funny, I did it and now I'm admitting to it but I don't care. I did it and then I looked at Apples as well because I was like man it would be cool to actually get in these lobbies and have the actual spec like up. Yeah if there is space for some of them because obviously people like K draw and some of the other content creators like Vega v two and Varon etc might have prior on them. And I saw yeah guys, if you want rights like reach out to me and I was like oh well I've just been watching the povs, the players anyway so yeah, it's been fun either way. And champs queue is providing a lot of great content, especially Wipo. Wipo has been an absolute content machine so it's been great to see that. [01:59:36] Speaker B: Oh yeah, and champs queue is always a fun time. So yeah, check out Jamada's twitch if you're gonna be streaming any of that. It'd be awesome to see that. But thanks again for coming on, you and Cubby as our guests. Thank you as always Hawk and Mazelle for coming on as well. And thank you everybody for supporting the podcast and listening along with us. We love you and we'll see you next time. Oh yes, daddy.