League Rundown - Episode 525: 1 team region to the power of 0

[00:00:31] Speaker A: At the table with Messiah tanking it up. I do not believe he just. What? [00:00:42] Speaker B: I cannot understand this game. [00:00:46] Speaker C: Unicorns of love. [00:00:48] Speaker A: It wasn't you against the nexus. Hello and welcome to episode 525 of the league rundown. We are in LCS playoffs preview and Lec season finals continued. This episode is lovingly entitled one team raised to the power of zero. I am your host for the episode. And I'm Kangas, joined by three esteemed co hosts. First up, if he had for every episode he's been on a nickel, he would be a very rich bickle. [00:01:36] Speaker B: Death, taxes, kt Rolster being Kt Rolster. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Okay, we'll talk about that at some point, I guess. I don't know what the KT Rolster law is kinda did either way, I'm sure that that'll come up when we go over LCK news and updates. But we also have fresh on the loose. It is apparently not a rodenthe. Um, but still mongoose. [00:02:01] Speaker C: I appreciate everyone who defended my honor in the discord. Um, also, no evie, no worlds. Goodbye. Uh, DFM. [00:02:08] Speaker A: Ooh, yeah, I'm still, um, recovering from the fact apparently mongoose are not rodents. But, uh, that's my own cross to bear. We also have joining us, Mister Mazelle Pl. [00:02:21] Speaker D: Hello. I'm excited to get to talk about all the stuff I have not been on since last two weeks. So I'm excited to rejoin and get to talk some league of legos with some of my favorite people. [00:02:34] Speaker A: Yeah, we've just been lying about the LPL updates. We've just been saying random shit. Love that people trust us, I guess. No, that's not true. [00:02:43] Speaker B: BFM aren't eliminated yet. They're still in playoffs. [00:02:49] Speaker C: Didn't they fail and not make it out of the last chance qualifier? [00:02:52] Speaker B: No, they made it in through plans. [00:02:56] Speaker C: What is going on in that region? I don't even know. I watch it and I don't even know what's going on. [00:03:02] Speaker B: Ground zero didn't make it through the last chance qualifier. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Great way to start the pod. Everyone just saying factually incorrect things. [00:03:10] Speaker C: I'm just lying. [00:03:10] Speaker A: One to the power of zero is still one. It's not even zero. But it was a fun title. Anyway, let's get into the news before we get into the games that happened in lcs and LEc. First up, Riot has locked in for a third team for worlds. That's what we were just talking about. Mongoose have been confused about it. But Bickle, I believe that you are confident in the information going on as Gam has qualified through the VC's for worlds. [00:03:36] Speaker B: Yep, Gam has made it to the grand finals, taking down Viking esports three two. By making the grand finals, they are locked top two, and VC's will be sending their top two seeds to play ins this year. So Gam has locked the last seed will be between Vikings and team whales. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Noise, that's a classic matchup. Vikings fought whales all the time, right? I actually don't know if that ever happened historically, but I like to imagine. And then there is still, what, one more spot from that region that teams can are still fighting for after this. So I assume that whoever wins this, or I guess, is it just top two get it in, top two get through automatically. [00:04:17] Speaker B: For VC's, they don't have any regional finals. It's just whoever's in their grand finals are the two teams going to worlds. [00:04:23] Speaker A: Okay, cool. So at this point, it's fighting for the seeding and Viking. [00:04:28] Speaker C: Vikings has already three owed team whales in playoffs, so it's just a rematch of that. [00:04:34] Speaker A: Any notable names that we might recognize on either of those rosters, if we have those up and fresh in our minds? [00:04:39] Speaker C: Viking, you might know Kati and Shogun and Baezhe. And then from team whales. [00:04:47] Speaker B: Artemis is probably the only one minor thing about Vikings. SofM is actually their coach. And during the complete chaotic breakdown that was VC's spring, when nearly half the league got banned for match fixing, he briefly played support for them in playoffs and they almost won the league. [00:05:08] Speaker C: They made it to finals. [00:05:11] Speaker A: That's kind of crazy. Yeah, that's definitely a name I'll recognize that. [00:05:15] Speaker C: Finals was also the most watched match in VC's history, where it was SofM against gigabyte Marines. [00:05:24] Speaker A: That's very funny. Yeah. Thankfully, we did not have a big, crazy scandal this split with the VC's, so hopefully they can smoothly send their world representatives to the worlds stage. But we also have other global leagues going on. Mazelle. How's LP all been going? Cause you haven't been around to catch us up on it, but I hear that you're in playoffs. [00:05:46] Speaker D: Yo, it's crazy. We are. We've made it. The race for the Silver Dragon cup. Come, come close, come close, cuz. [00:05:53] Speaker A: Okay. Yep. [00:05:54] Speaker D: The campaign for rookie two worlds is still alive, baby. He's still kicking nip. They bid on a hell of a run. They literally did not win a single best of three in all of the rumble stage against all the best teams, and then they've won three best of fives in a row. And they beat JDG, knocking them out of the summer playoffs and potentially out of the regional qualifiers. Contention based on the other side of the bracket, which is absolutely crazy. That would mean that JDG doesn't make it to an international event all of 2024 after literally being so close to the golden road. 2023. And on the other side, milky Way, he's already out, unfortunately, fell last night to anyone's legend. And now it'll be top esports versus anyone's legend for a wonderful guardian angel spot in the fourth round of LPL playoffs. [00:06:49] Speaker A: Okay. I mean, that would be crazy. What a drop off for JDG if that happens. And like you said, it's out of their control now, right? Like, they can't really do anything. [00:06:58] Speaker D: If top esports win, they will be in regional qualifiers. If anyone's legend win, they will be out. [00:07:05] Speaker A: What would you say the likelihood of anyone's legend winning is? [00:07:08] Speaker D: Not very high. Been so ridiculously strong. Every single position has been just popping off, and I don't think they have much of a chance. But they also should have had a harder chance against FPX, and they took them three one and kind of made Milky Way look like trash, so. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Okay, so a lot of exciting stuff going on in LPL will keep our eyes on JDG going forward, see how they fare in their road to still trying to make it to an international stage this year. But we also have LCk that was going on this last week. Bickle, what's LCk looking like right now? [00:07:45] Speaker B: So LCK, heading into their final week, we have three teams locked into playoffs, three teams eliminated from playoffs, four teams competing for the final three spots. And I mentioned KT Rolster earlier. They're going to KT Rolster because as everybody remembers, they dropped zero two to OK Savings bank Breon earlier this season. The team is currently two and 14. What is the most counter opposite thing of that? What is the only thing KT Rolster will ever do? [00:08:14] Speaker A: Kangas, let me guess, upset the number one team arguably in the entire world right now. [00:08:21] Speaker B: KT Rolster ended the undefeated streak of Gen G, the team who had not lost domestically since February when they lost to KT Rolster. [00:08:36] Speaker A: That's incredible. You know, when you said it in the intro, I forgot that that is what happened this last week, and that is the craziest news. But you're right. The most KT thing. [00:08:45] Speaker B: Genie rolls winning worlds. Gen G now sits at 15 and one in series score, still 31 and three in game score plus 28. They have a chance to have the largest game difference in the LCK ever. I want to say the record's like 30. They have two more series to play so they can get it up to 32. But along with that, that very same day, Nongshim was eliminated by playoffs. By the fact that KT won that series after being eliminated from playoffs, Nong Shim went on to 200. T one. [00:09:19] Speaker C: Yeah, it was a stomp too. [00:09:22] Speaker B: It was not close. It was kind of a shellacking. [00:09:26] Speaker C: It was bad. [00:09:28] Speaker A: Hopefully t one's mental's holding out. I know that things were rough over there a week prior. [00:09:34] Speaker B: So Gen G and Hanwha life have locked themselves into the number one and number two seeds respectively. They earned themselves a first round by Gen G. Will get to pick their opponent in the second round of playoffs. D Kia has also locked themselves in. Nongshim, DRX and OK savings bro have been eliminated. That means it's t one. KT, Bnk, Fer x and Quandong freaks fighting for those final spots. T one is basically locked in without being locked in. KT is also in a pretty good spot. It's just a matter of quant and fear x as to who will kind of get that last spot. [00:10:14] Speaker A: Okay, well, we'll also give our temperature on that. Will we have those locked by the end of this weekend? So like this next week of play by next episode, we should know all the teams and playoffs. We will know more to play. [00:10:25] Speaker B: We will know all the teams in playoffs by next episode. [00:10:28] Speaker A: Yes, perfect. All right, well then we'll have an update then. But if anybody's interested in keeping track on your own time, of course you can check out the standings, the match results, or watch the games themselves. You can do that also in our community, discord, if you are so inclined. There's other stuff going around the world, though. There was a little whoopsie on the broadcast and the PCs. I don't exactly know the full story. I just know that one of the casters said a joke that was pretty offensive, there was some kind of play on words about a player's mom or something and then had to issue a public apology. And then the PCs Twitter addressed it. So that's funny. If you're a broadcaster, maybe don't make inappropriate jokes live on broadcast in front of everybody. It was lesson to take away little. [00:11:17] Speaker D: Context is the words sound very, very similar and he was trying to say one version of it, but the way that he pronounced it came off as the other version and it was that same steep hill of like one side is like a funny joke. And the other side is, you know, saying some really harsh things about their. [00:11:37] Speaker C: Oh, I see what it is now. [00:11:40] Speaker D: So I think. I think it's. He wasn't making that joke specifically, but it was pronounced that way and it came off that way. [00:11:46] Speaker A: Right. From what I heard is that they doubled down because they thought it was funny. That it did sound similar, but I don't know enough to say concretely. But lesson is, I think, still there regardless. Out there. Yeah. Like I said, I didn't know the full story, but it happened and people were talking about it. Also talking about EmEa masters going into the bracket stage. Somebody just added this one to the doc. [00:12:16] Speaker B: Yep. They are now into their top 16 bracket stage. They did a whole world style swiss format where certain number of wins get you in, certain number of losses knock you out. They're into their top 16 now into a bracket stage. It is very France. LFL dominated all five of their seeds made it into the knockout stage. But, yeah, bracket draws pretty crazy. We got some french, we got some Spanish, we got some German. Along some Middle east for the arabian league. And I want to say also not some prime. They got some prime league, but, yeah, basically, go check it out. Good league. May see some up and comers for the LEC, but that's just going on. [00:13:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I wanted to give a note. I've heard that the arabian teams have done the strat, where they bring in two korean challenger import players and then just try and get the best players that they have locally from other esport titles because the region's so new and so young with their server kind of just starting up. So I'm curious what their teams look like as they're entering that stage. [00:13:25] Speaker C: There's a player that you'll recognize Kangas on one of these rosters. It is a korean player. [00:13:31] Speaker A: Okay. [00:13:32] Speaker C: It's fucking bong. [00:13:33] Speaker B: It's the man bonged. [00:13:36] Speaker C: It's the man himself. [00:13:38] Speaker A: Wait, on which team? [00:13:39] Speaker B: He's on DK, the number one seed for the Arabian. [00:13:45] Speaker A: I am so happy that my boy is doing it. So happy he's doing it. [00:13:50] Speaker B: GK did go the double korean route, like you mentioned. They brought in Bong top, and then they brought in Leo as their ad carry. Somebody who has spent a lot of time in the LCK. [00:14:01] Speaker A: Cool, cool. Well, mizelle, final point on this. Why are all the french teams so naturally good at League of Legends plummer? [00:14:14] Speaker D: I said because we're just better. [00:14:16] Speaker A: Oh, okay. I thought it was going to be the cheese. All right, esport emotes also dropped for teams globally. This was something that was announced and we talked about on the podcast much earlier in the year where Riot made a statement that we're going to try and monetize esports more and specifically get money to the teams. This is one of their big projects that they've put out. It kind of flew under the radar, honestly. See, like any. I didn't know that this was coming out today, but then, like, today is when on the website, they uploaded everything. It's really cool. You can go check it out on the Lowell esports site where all the major region teams and I think even minor regions, right? Yeah. At least like PCs, VC's. [00:14:53] Speaker C: Yeah, the emerging regions, I guess. [00:14:55] Speaker A: There we go. Yes, emerging regions. But if they have emotes for each team. So if you are a supporter of a specific team, go purchase their specific emote. If you just see one that you think is cool, it will go towards a pool that is shared across the esport orgs across the world. So either way, you are helping out. If you're a fan of esports, this is a great way. Kind of like how counter strike, from my understanding, has done it with like, crowdfunding of skins for their big events. Dota has done this. Now, this is a slightly different take, but I think it's kind of the similar energy, right, where it's like, hey, if you're a fan and you play the game, you can go into the game and buy something in the client that will directly support the teams and the scene as a whole. And now is when we get to talk about our favorite emotes because we did this for the bullshittery part of the episode. But I want to quick get everyone's thoughts. Mizelle, what's your favorite emote on the entire show? [00:15:47] Speaker D: EdG pupper or the smolder dragon in the cage? [00:15:52] Speaker A: One of the two smoulder jail is great. Mongoose, what'd you get? [00:15:57] Speaker C: It's probably either the OMG rise one, because I think it's just funny to have OMG pop up. [00:16:03] Speaker A: Okay. [00:16:04] Speaker C: Or the rogue one because I just like that it's the rogue mascot holding a flower. [00:16:11] Speaker A: That works, too. Extra points to any teams that use their mascot. I think it's great branding for the teams to have something about your team in the client because a lot of teams did not actually have either their team logo or a mascot or even like, the team name anywhere on the emote. Mazelle had his own theory, but I'll have him talk about that later because first up, Bickle. What's your favorite emote? [00:16:34] Speaker B: I'm split here. I do like the dignitas baron throw, but I'm also a big fan of the K Corp ff with Jinx. [00:16:44] Speaker A: Wait, I don't know if I saw that one. [00:16:46] Speaker B: She's holding up the four yeses to surrender. [00:16:50] Speaker A: Oh, that's good. That's good. I didn't even notice. Is there a vote? No. Nobody voted no. They all voted yes. Yeah. [00:16:59] Speaker C: You're the last person who hasn't said yeah. [00:17:03] Speaker A: Unfortunately, your team wants out at that point. I will say mine. I don't even know if this is for a team or if it is, I don't know which team. But there is a, like, blue yeti looking dude holding like, a martini and he's doing a little toast and he looks just completely toasted himself. So cheers to my lane opponents. I'm going to be spamming that one against you a lot. Although special shout out to one that I'm quickly becoming part of my brand and that is of course, the pantheon. Oh, I didn't time it right. I was trying to get it to be this part. Oh, there we go. I got that on my soundboard now, but I still working on the timing of it. There's a Pantheon one in there and it's really cool. But Mazelle, you had a theory about why some teams might not put their branding or their logo on the emote itself, and I thought that was actually a good point. So do you want to explain it? [00:17:51] Speaker D: Yeah. So this was all based on trying to get monetization for League of Legends, for the organizations across the world, a big pool of money coming in. And I think the thing you think about when you're trying to think about marketing and making sure you hit active audiences is that if somebody sees, say, let's take the teemo with the white flag that doesn't have an emote on it, say it is the team liquid one and it does have the team liquid logo on it. Maybe fans from Europe, maybe fans from China, maybe fans from Korea or around the world that aren't in the US don't necessarily want that, whereas they would want just the plain emote by itself. So it's a little bit more manageable and makes maybe a little bit more money. [00:18:34] Speaker A: I think that's a good point because initially I was just disappointed that, like, Team liquid does not have blue, their mascot does not have TL, does not have. Let's go. Liquid doesn't have anything liquid themed or branded on their emote. It's just Timo holding a white flag, but that is still kind of apa branding. He can spam that white flag when he's laying it against people. And also, like you said, people that are not specifically fans of Team liquid or maybe even don't like Team liquid, might still get that one because it doesn't directly show TL on it, but it's still just a generically fun emote. So yeah, cool. That's a lot of the global news going around. There were no roster swap ups that we noted in lcs or LEC this last week. No surprise. We're in playoffs and the season finals now for LEC, so a roster should be pretty much just confirmed. Teams are just trying to make that last ditch run for world. So if you want to talk about it, if you want somewhere to share your opinions about the teams and their chances, come check out our community discord. You can find a link to it in the description of wherever you are listening to this current podcast episode, you can help hang out with us, support the pod as well through our Patreon or through our new shop. We have league Dash rundown shop dot fourthwall.com. that's a dash, right? Not a, not a slash. Yeah, it's a dash. There we go. Make sure I got my lingo right. [00:19:58] Speaker C: Yes, Mongoose Duffy is trying to get community games started. If you miss Duffy, please come into the discord and play some games with him. We are trying to figure out days and it looks like Fridays might be the days, but come into the discord, say when you can play and we'll figure it out from there. [00:20:16] Speaker A: Absolutely. Duffy has confirmed he hates us, but he loves you, the community. So he will still go and hang out with all of you. Also, Sam, longtime correspondent from Europe of the podcast, has made a couple purchases and they have already shipped because apparently they're shipping from Europe. So they made it to him early and he shared pictures of some of the hats that he got. They look really cool. And he said that so far he's loving them. So yeah, I love the five stars on the back of the cap. That's like the little touch that they have. Give us five stars, please. It really helps. Cool. Well, that's it for news. That means that we can get into what actually happened this last week and start to look ahead to the next week. We're going to start off with LCS on this episode as we just had the last week of the regular season, which means that we are now putting our eyes forward to playoffs. But before then, let's recap everything that happened this last week. LCs regular season goes pretty fast for our episodes because there's only four series to talk about each episode, one of the positives of the new format. So let's just go in chronological order. First up, NRG took on team liquid. Now, there weren't, like, crazy playoff implications in this one. From what I remember, it was mostly just like, can energy try and show signs of life at the end of the split? But they were going to be kind of towards the bottom of the barrel, expected regardless. [00:21:42] Speaker B: Right, pickle going into this. If NRG lost zero two and then in the next series, Shopify one 20, there would be a three way tiebreaker required for the final playoff spot between Shopify hundred thieves and NRG. So Energy was technically playing for their playoff lives pending results of next game. [00:22:05] Speaker A: Yeah, and hey, it was a 20. It did actually shake down that way. Bickel, do you just want to take in and kind of explain a little bit of how quickly TL was able to dissect energy? [00:22:20] Speaker B: There's not much to talk about here. Energy is showing no signs of life, really. Heading into the playoffs, team liquid kind of just beat them down as expected, repeatedly. It's not pretty. [00:22:36] Speaker A: I will say the one positive I can possibly think of for energy after losing two games in a row, like 14,000 gold behind is the fact that they are at least going back to the identity that they had when they were winning, which was like yone mid with like rumble and then engage jungle and support and stuff like that. I mean, they're not going to get Ignar back. They got who he. They have to deal with that fact. But it feels like they're trying to get back to that playstyle of like, just dog pile fight dirty and aggressive. But then you watch their setups for the fights and you watch how they actually took them, and they're just not coordinated enough. Like, they don't have that same level of coordination that they had last year. [00:23:16] Speaker B: Their coordination is terrible. Becomes really apparent in like, the second game. You see them Sejuani alt one person as Palafox dives in with a yone ult onto a second. There's a rumble ult over a third person. [00:23:29] Speaker A: They have no coordination trying to start with the rumble ult as opposed to waiting for, like, all the CC to hit first. It's like, guys, what are we doing? [00:23:38] Speaker B: Yeah. For Team Liquid, a team that usually goes a bit longer in their games as a bit like more of a late game team, they won both these games. Sub 30 minutes. Game two, Washington over in 22 minutes. [00:23:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And this split, I actually think Team Liquid, I haven't checked, but I would not be surprised if they had one of the fastest game times in the LCS. I know historically they've been slow, but this split, I have noted that they play much faster, fastest game time in the LCS, correct? Yeah, on average. But normally they do take their time. But I think that's one of the strengths of team liquid right now, is they've gotten much better at just ending the game. They're like, okay, we have enough of a lead, we can just, just walk at their base and end. And I think that's something that, surprisingly, teams still struggle to do. [00:24:22] Speaker B: But we talked about energy there. But team liquid, congrats. [00:24:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:26] Speaker B: Undefeated split. I use quotation marks there. Yes. You're seven zero. Fourteen three in game score. Still relatively impressive, but yeah, good on them. They're going in to the summer playoffs head and shoulders above everybody as the favorites to win it all. We'll talk about this later. The hopes of the west, it feels like. [00:24:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I want to get everyone's quick thoughts on it because this is the topic right now. How much weight do we give to the undefeated season? They didn't drop a series. It was single round robin, best of three. I'll give my thoughts first, but then I do want to hear everybody else's. My thought is that it counts, but we all know that there's an asterisk on it because the format is very different than past formats. So it was harder to do earlier. This is probably the easiest it has ever been to do it, but they still did it. And this is maybe the last split of the LCS, at least as we know it. There's going to be the merger. We're going to have the Americas next year. That's already been announced. We don't know if this is even going to be called the LCS anymore. They've been, Wright's been very slow on giving information publicly about that kind of stuff. So I think for the sake of the history books, the last split of the lcs, somebody did it. Dang nabbit. But I think that's kind of cool. But still little asterisks there. Mzell, what are your thoughts? [00:25:47] Speaker D: I agree. I agree. No, I think it's, it's cool to have moments like that. It's cool to celebrate it, obviously. I think some of the teams who aren't in playoffs obviously know that there's a lot of changes coming and think some of their posts maybe signal to that. So to be able to celebrate a last moment, like if it is all going to change, if it's all going to be different and yes it is already different in this split but still something cool, something that should be praised with the developmental system that's behind this team, behind this organization. [00:26:15] Speaker A: Oh yeah, mongoose. [00:26:19] Speaker C: I don't know. It still feels really bad. Especially like when other splits. I feel like it's been a lot more exciting when teams have been going on this undefeated streak. So this one just feels like, I mean they did it but it's also, I don't know, I'm not as excited as I was when like cloud nine Washington almost like about to do it so I guess it counts but at the same time I'm just like, it doesn't feel exciting. [00:26:45] Speaker A: All right, bickle, you were shaking your head in disagreement the whole time I'm. [00:26:49] Speaker B: Riding with Mongoose here. It doesn't feel right. Like you're undefeated in series score. You've dropped games. Your Nexus has exploded. You are not in that same like when we look at it back there. Immortals with that 17 and one split fanatic with their undefeated split. But that's really what it comes back. Immortals lost one game. They went 17 one. Cloud nine went six and one. Does that mean they are comparable as having only lost one game series? No. Immortals is in that different boat. I will give them props. It is impressive but I don't think it compares to all the other historical. Great split. It is a really good split and should be up there with like this was a great split but it's not like this is head and shoulders above everything as the best split there is. They are the only undefeated team ever. [00:27:47] Speaker D: I have a little bit of fight back on the whole. Like they lose a game in a series. LCS is finally back in best three. You can say that. If it's best of one that's fine. You have LPL teams in a 17 team league. If they make an undefeated series split score of 1716 and zero, I'm going to count that all day. Even if they went to three games every single all 16 series. Right. [00:28:10] Speaker C: But they have so many more teams is the thing. So it feels more impressive. It just doesn't feel impressive. This just doesn't feel impressive. I'm sorry. [00:28:19] Speaker D: I don't know man. [00:28:23] Speaker A: Like I will say 16 teams is more than double than what Team Liquid beat in their undefeated split and that's why I say the the format has changed. Right. This is arguably the easiest split to pull off this feat. But they still pulled off the feet. They still did the undefeated run. [00:28:45] Speaker D: It's the little nuance. It's more so the. The fact that if they lose games within a series, that shouldn't count. I think that's more so. [00:28:51] Speaker B: I'll give you that. [00:28:52] Speaker C: They didn't have a point. [00:28:53] Speaker A: But undefeated to that point, though, then. [00:28:55] Speaker C: Cloud nine is the second best winning team in North America because they are one win away from having a winless split. But if you're taking it from, like, game score instead of or like, the series overall. Yeah. [00:29:10] Speaker A: Well, Jad even had, like, a little piece on the broadcast about that. I thought that was a really cool piece. I actually wish it had gone a little longer. It was only like 30 seconds where he's rapid fire talking through it, but he gives a historical breakdown of the game win record of all the best splits ever from teams. We're talking about that Immortals team. We're talking about multiple cloud nine splits, TSM splits, where they were just dominating, only dropping like one or two games. And this team, liquid split, is still. I believe it was like top ten. I think it was like 7th or 8th or something like that. In terms of game win percentages, that's what he was looking at. He just looked at win to loss ratio, give the percentage and then stack them in order. And that's. It's. It was still a very impressive split. Like, it's not to take away that, oh, this isn't impressive, which I don't hear like Bickel and Mongoose are both saying. It's still impressive. It's just. It's not the same number of, like, actually, is it? It might be more games. Now that I think about it, it. [00:30:08] Speaker C: Was 17 instead of. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Well, Mortals was 17 and one. So that's only one less game there. But they dropped more games along the way. So in actual games played, they still played a decent amount compared to past splits. It's just single round robin is, I think, what's getting a lot of people. They didn't play the teams multiple times, but I still think it's cool. [00:30:32] Speaker D: It's probably not a conversation. [00:30:34] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a fun conversation. I like that we have different opinions on this podcast, but we do have other teams to talk about. I happy we could take some time to talk flesh out. I know it's crazy. Surprisingly, LCS, we're kind of a one team region, but we do have other teams Shopify rebellion versus hundred thieves. Also happened. Mongoose, you were the only one with the correct prediction. You thought that hundred thieves could take it. It. Badger and Bickle last week did not. Bickel, do you. I wasn't here to hear your defense. I would have gotten 100 thieves. Why'd you have Shopify here? [00:31:05] Speaker B: I picked Shopify because I wanted it to happen so that we could have a three way tiebreak. I picked it for the storyline. [00:31:11] Speaker C: They both did. They both picked it for the storyline. [00:31:14] Speaker A: I like that. And in order for the storyline to happen, Shopify had to win 20 energy had to lose 20 to team liquid. We had that setup going into the series, but 100 thieves won game one. So it got a little anticlimactic for the rest of the series because Shopify, even though they won game, there was really no stakes at that point. It was just fighting for your pride, really. [00:31:38] Speaker B: You say it made it less exciting going in. What it did do is make the drafts a lot more fun going into. [00:31:45] Speaker A: The next two games. [00:31:47] Speaker B: We got to see an Evelyn jungle. We got to see a Kane jungle. We got to see the first games of Aurora in the LCS. It was hype. [00:31:56] Speaker A: We got. [00:31:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:31:59] Speaker B: We got to see Evelyn solo kill us as one. [00:32:07] Speaker A: That was amazing. [00:32:08] Speaker C: This jungle was everything I needed it to be. [00:32:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. This was. It was a fun series, an entertaining one. Like we said, the stakes were low after that game won, so that's where it got a little more loose throughout, but entertainment value just fun. League of Legends definitely delivered. And hundred thieves, do we want to talk about them? Like what, what positives can we say about them going into playoffs here? Cause I think, I mean, Tomo still look pretty good. [00:32:37] Speaker B: Tomo is meshing so much better than I think anybody expected. You wouldn't be able to tell. He just joined this team last week. He looks like he's been playing with this team for the entire split. It looks really solid. The big question mark, I'd say, is whether river can kind of pick it up a little. He's had a few questionable games here and there. He hasn't been looking like the best jungler in the league like he was last split. But if he can get back there, 100 thieves is going to be dangerous. I really do think that, yeah. [00:33:09] Speaker A: I just want river to embrace the umpty team liquid strat, where just pick, engage tanks. Like, you don't need to play these AP champs. Just go back to play and engage. Play around mid lane and try and do a work. I know that he was on more aggressive picks last split like he was pulling out Xinjiang J four things that he could do a little more damage on. But I still feel like that's where 100 deeves looks the best, is when Rivers on a champion that gives them agency to just make things happen. [00:33:34] Speaker D: I'm actually, I know maybe this is thinking a little bit too far out and I'll zone it back into lcs itself. I'm terrified for teams that cannot pay proactive or carry junglers right now in the meta because we're seeing teams get literally ripped limb from limb in the LPL by not being proactive and not having aggressive jungle picks. And I think it's really going to be interesting as we go on. But then looking at, you know, what works in an a, what's going to get you a title? That's that big conversation of do you focus on what works as in an a that does work, right? Because you're not having these proactive moves, you're having much more reactive gameplay. And so it's this duality of it. Do you want to see more of that because it works for those teams in the moment or do you want to see them trying to flex some of those muscles? I think that's the biggest hard question for you with hundred thieves is like, which one I want to see of them? Because I agree with your points and. [00:34:28] Speaker A: I'm happy that you bring that up because historically we look at the past ten years of international competition, the meta changes in real time at international events, and North America consistently is behind the curve on catching up with those changes. And it feels like we're also behind the curve and catching up to changes in this meta. Already in summer, we're still playing the brand Zyra, Lilia, jungles. And not many teams are really pushing the limit as to, like, how do you counter that? Like, what? What do you do about that? I think Team Liquid's one of the best examples of just Maokai with a locket by brand damage, you know, like, doesn't really matter anymore, right. And then you still have engage and stuff like that. So, yeah, I'm happy to bring that up. [00:35:12] Speaker D: Mazelle. [00:35:13] Speaker A: I think that is a concern for 100 thieves going forward, but they still have to fight through playoffs. They might not even make it to international events. We'll talk about what that looks like next week, but first, let's finish up the rest of this last week. Flyquest versus cloud nine. This was the big one, man. The exciting match going into the weekend that was to determine who is second place in the lcs and importantly, getting that week one by not having to play the first best of five is huge, because that means that a single best of five gets you to worlds, and two best of fives can get you to finals. To get into that LCS title contention, cloud nine. Everyone on the cast believed in them. Some people said two ones. Mongoose, you said the 20. So congratulations on that, because they did, in fact, two. Oh, Mizel, were you able to catch these games live? [00:36:04] Speaker D: I did, sporadically. I wasn't able to. All of them? [00:36:08] Speaker A: Well, I know that there was one particular moment. I was watching this one over at Rafa's place, and game one, there was the moment. And I'm pretty sure the second I say moment, a lot of people will know what I'm talking about. Some moments in players careers can define their entire career if they step up. They have a legacy. They have a legend. They're now a legend. Look at Danny with his Tristana, or, like, the jinx Pentakill that he gets at the Baron, right? Like, those are the moments. Masu had a moment in game one that I was so certain was going to become his legacy, his beginning of the highlight reel of his pro career on Ash, standing behind the Baron pit with three people at, like, 150 health in a one v three. And he plays it well, but he doesn't get a kill, and then he does die at the end of it, because I forget who spawns and then teleports in and gets behind him, but he gets, like, surrounded and dies. And it was moments like that that I'm like, oh, my God. I know Masu as a player, and I know he's going to be going back and reviewing that tape. Like, how could I have done this? Like, how could I have actually swept this fight? Because he uses his ult a little early. He only has a static shiv at that point, so he's not doing, like, that much damage. But then he, like, cancels two different autos during the fights. Like, oh, man. Like, he was so close to pulling it up. Pickle, do you remember the moment I'm talking about in game? [00:37:32] Speaker B: I know what you're talking about. I honestly think if that braum, there is any other champion, he probably comes away with, like, two kills. Yeah, the unbreakable did so much work. [00:37:43] Speaker A: There, and he had to sidestep two different winters by which he did. Like, he played it so well, but he didn't pull it off. Like, if he had gotten a triple kill or even just, like, one kill for his life, something like, that when you're staring down one v three, that would have been huge, but unfortunately was not able to pull that off. And cloud nine, that was kind of like the final moment where Flyquest had fight left in them. Cloud nine just pulled ahead from that point and then that game two, what a weird strat that Flyquest pulled off here. And also we had spawn on the cast team. Liquids coach Spawn, fantastic job casting this best of three series. Loved hearing his insight in it. But Masu is on Neela and Mazelle. Do you know anything about this strat? Apparently it's going on in, in the chinese servers where you go Nilo with like two supports and you just roam around the map. Because she doesn't share XP. If she last hits a minion, she gets all the XP herself and then shares it with the people around. So you can like funnel XP on Neela if you just keep her going around to waves. Do you know what the strat is? [00:38:44] Speaker D: I've heard of it, but we haven't seen it at all. [00:38:47] Speaker A: Okay. Not in pro play. I wasn't sure if it had come up in the LPL because they tried it and they were talking on cast explaining that, yeah, apparently this has been going on in, like the chinese server and people are winning solo queue games in challenger with it, but they didn't know it show up in competitive and it was cool for like four minutes and then they just kind of gave up and was like, well, we're just laning like normal now. And by the time that had happened, they'd lost two players bot and they were like two levels up on the Nilah. But it didn't really feel like it got them that big of a lead. And then Bwippo just decides to throw it all away as he's playing nautilus. Top Lane and just inspired has the entire enemy jungle to clear and all of his camps up and he's invading the red. And then what does Bwipo decide to do? He tries to fight. Top Lane pulls inspired over off the camp. They both die. And it was just atrocious, man. And yeah, if you see the pros. [00:39:46] Speaker B: Episode, they have a blabber and whipple on there. Blabber out where it says, if he doesn't take that fight topside, I'm out of this game. And it's basically done like blabber would have been Perma just done for so long. He would have been so far behind inspired. But Blippo just throws it all away like you mentioned. [00:40:09] Speaker A: Yeah. How did Whipple respond, I haven't seen that episode of Pros. What? Like, does he admit he. Okay, okay. Yeah, I mean, I, you have to some players, and Wipo, as a player has done this before where he'll defend his plays, and I'm like, nah, dude, I don't see the angle. But I also think he is the type of player who will be willing to accept and admit when he does things wrong. But it was just so funny hearing spawn, who, by the way, was coach of team Liquid academy and the challengers when Bwipa was the top laner for LCS. I got to go there and shoot content with them. And Whipl was actually helping them doing coaching with Bradley, who was their top laner at the time. So Spawn has a relationship with Bwipo. They both were doing, like, Wipo was doing some player coaching for the academy team back in the day, and just hearing spawn go off in, I was like, dude, I don't know if I'm reading too much into this. It feels like this is a cathartic moment for Spawn. There might have been some disagreements between those two back at TL, but again, maybe I'm over reading into that. It was just a funny moment. [00:41:15] Speaker B: For anybody who hasn't actually seen that episode, you really should. It's blabber Wippo and then general and then sniper. They have an entire segment towards the end, which is just explaining some history from League of Legends to sniper. Like the funnel Meta 2018 Worlds, the origins of Lane Swap double jungle. It's really entertaining. [00:41:39] Speaker A: That's great stuff. Well, I mean, despite that big throw, Flyquest still were in the game for a lot of it. They actually ended the game with the loss, but they were ahead in gold by the end. They're the ones that were able to get the baron. But then, you know, you lose that big team fight at the end of the game, and it's just over. I think Vulcan had a really, really good, good series in particular in that game, too. His braum was incredible. And also, I think that, you know, berserker on Zary is just always going to be scary. So, yeah, maybe don't give berserker. Zeri seems to be his champ. That was flyquest c nine. Then take Natas Immortals. Oh, my goodness. What a banger this turned out to be. So Immortals is out, right? Like, we already knew going into this weekend, Immortals was not making playoffs, which, by the way, is, what, six splits in a row that they have not made playoffs? It more. [00:42:36] Speaker B: Hold on, let me see if I can get more. [00:42:37] Speaker A: It might be more. [00:42:38] Speaker C: I think it's more. I think it's eight. [00:42:40] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:42:42] Speaker C: I think since coming back, they have not made playoffs. [00:42:45] Speaker A: I mean, I know that the whole franchise rules are pretty much out the window because we're already changing them into next year, but the fact that they have so consistently finished last place or second to last place is just crazy. [00:42:59] Speaker B: Immortals returned to the lcs in spring of 2020. In the past ten splits, they have made playoffs once in the summer of 21. [00:43:10] Speaker A: God. Wow. Yeah, that's, that's one of the orgs of all time right there. And they had a series of all time against dictators. This one got a little crazy, guys. I caught this one sporadically because I wasn't able to actually watch it from start to finish, but I know that it was a slobberknocker, as our lec caster medic likes to call it. Game two in particular. Immortals were, like, in the base of dignitas. And then I was like, okay, well, this is gonna be a 20. And then I look back at my phone, like five minutes later, I was like, wait, why is dignitas in the base of immortals now? What is going on? And Dignitas was able to, I think it was a reverse sweep, right? Because immortals, yeah, immortals won the first game. Yeah, they almost kept the meme alive. Wasn't it? Like they had a win streak going from once they've been eliminated from playoffs? They had never lost a series. Something crazy like that. I think it was like four series in a row, I want to say, or four games in a row that they had won after being eliminated from playoff contention. It's like mortals is the scariest team once they're out of the league, but digs out. So we're able to pull it off with that reverse sweep. I'm trying to think if there's anything, like really fun pick wise. We got, I guess we got like Xinjiao. It didn't look good, but then I think it's kind of fun. [00:44:31] Speaker B: We got only thresh. That's fun. Pick now. [00:44:36] Speaker C: Yeah, we got Bard and thresh. [00:44:38] Speaker A: People like Bard, we got more roll like Bard. We got a bard that went deathless as well. That was even cooler. And I was even just asking last night I was talking to some of the NACL team, like, why don't we see thresh anymore? So that's on me. I totally missed that. We saw thresh. Okay. [00:44:58] Speaker C: Thresh sucks. [00:44:59] Speaker A: That's a bummer. [00:44:59] Speaker C: Now he just dies so easy. And the ADC's that he's good with are not good right now, which is a big, big factor. [00:45:07] Speaker A: Okay. Well, either way, Dignitas still won the series and are in playoffs. They are. I believe they snuck into top four. I think they finished fourth place. [00:45:17] Speaker B: They finished fourth. They were basically playing this game for side select. If they won this series, they would be the fourth seed against 100 thieves. If they lost the series, they'd be the fifth seed against 100 thieves. [00:45:29] Speaker A: Love that for them. But they got side selection and they got a little momentum to ride going in. Still shaky. Dropping a game to immortals, though. So there we go. That was lcs this last weekend. Any final thoughts on any of the games? Anything that we missed series to watch as well, if you want to throw it in. Nah. Cool. I would say series to watch. For me, I think FlyQuest C nine was still pretty fun. It was the best league of legends that we saw. Unless you just like seeing team liquid destroy a team much worse than them. Some people might consider that good League of Legends as well. I'm not sure, but there we go. Cool. Also, I guess hundred thieves. Shopify is probably the closest series. So that one, if you enjoy it, too, just watch all the series, get the viewer counts up, you know, help us out next week, though. We have week one of playoffs and we're going to have two best of fives on the horizon. Up first, Dignitas versus hundred thieves. You just said it. This was a fight for side selection. Dignitas will get that side selection and we have a lot of faith. Faith in. Actually, I was just gonna say a lot of faith in Dignitas. Then there were a couple changes in predictions. A lot of 800 thieves. I guess everyone thinks it's gonna be a close series except for mongoose. Mongoose, you have a 30. Mazelle and Bickle have a three. Two French with thieves. I'm the only dig believer. Big dig. Summer is not ending this early, guys. We can go a little further, but I still have a three two. I think it's gonna be close. Mongoose, you have the most opinionated response here. So why do you think 30 river. [00:47:07] Speaker C: Best jungle in a. He's gonna bring it back. It's playoffs, baby. [00:47:11] Speaker A: Okay, no bias, no bias, no bias. [00:47:14] Speaker C: I also think three one is a lame prediction. [00:47:16] Speaker A: So 30 I've never understood. I've never understood the three one eight yet. Missile. Like what? [00:47:23] Speaker D: All the gentleman's 30. [00:47:28] Speaker A: It's the gentleman sweep. Yeah. Okay. Well, I went dignitas because I still think that pound for pound, dignitas are better than hundred thieves. I think that Tomoe has been a great addition, but I think it's a bit of a honeymoon phase. And Sven and Isles will be good enough to take him down and put him back in his place and I think as well just. I don't know. Big dig summer, baby. I still think that Dignitas have the ability to win games more convincingly when they get the leads that they are capable of getting. But they also will sometimes just lose early. So if 100 thieves show up and they can, can just win early game, I think dignitas is not gonna have a great series. If dignitas can hold out early, then they should be able to win in the mid to late game macro fights. So that's. That's my prediction. Flyquest NRG is up next. That is the second series of the weekend and the last. And we got a whole lot of flyquest love here. 303030 for myself. Bigel Mongoose Mazelle with the gentleman sweep of a three and one mazelle. How does energy win a single game? [00:48:37] Speaker D: Big dokes, baby. It's gotta be. There's gotta be one more performance. There's gotta be one more performance in that tank, dog. He has that most valuable prospect trophy sitting there somewhere. Maybe, maybe not anywhere present because he's got lost that motivation, but it's in there somewhere. Big dokes, he's just waiting to come out. [00:48:58] Speaker A: Big dokes, waiting to come out. I will say, if it weren't for fake out, I think the big doaks would be the worst top later in the league. And I hate to say that I'm a big dokla fan. I've loved watching his career. His story was incredible. He's been a CLG player. So obviously I'm going to have bias there, but he's just not had the same fight in him this summer. And I think it has been part of what's weighing energy down along with their lack of synergy that we talked about before. They're just not on the same page when they're going for plays. So. Yeah. Mongoose action. Bickel, we haven't heard your thoughts on lcs yet. Why do you think FlyQuest just three o's this easy peasy, no competition. [00:49:36] Speaker B: I don't think it requires any explanation. In all honesty, energy, big stinky flyquest. What are the top three teams? [00:49:46] Speaker A: I'm surprised that nobody said, or I guess Mazel was the only one with a game. If I was going to play Devil's advocate, for energy, I would say contracts just has a good series. Contracts has also not had a lot of good performances. Like when contracts is in his flow state, he is like the best jungler in the league. But he's so rarely at that side of the pendulum swing. But if he's able to reach even close to that side of the pendulum swing, I think he is the type of jungler that can take advantage of an inspired playstyle where he's not going to interact with any of his lanes and just play for himself. If contractors having a great game where he's reading exactly where inspired is is and predicting what the tempo is going to be and what the next play is and play into his lanes, I think the contracts actually could be the thing that gets them to win. But I still have like West 30 because contracts just hasn't looked like he's at that level so far, so. Okay, cool. Well, that was fast, guys. Wow. LCS. Let's go. [00:50:42] Speaker B: Do we want to eulogize? [00:50:44] Speaker A: Oh, we do. We do want to eulogize. There are two teams. Then not only will we not see for the right of rest of the calendar year, for the rest of 2024, you have been released from them on your screens. There is a chance because a lot of change is happening in LCS in North America next year that we will never see these teams again. Depending on who gets accepted into the new league structure, whatever that looks like. Immortals and Shopify Rebellion, one of which is one of the newest comers to the league, picking up the corpse of one of the most, if not now, just just definitively the most historic team that the region had ever seen and the other making their own history, maybe not the way that they wanted to, by being one of the consistently lowest performing teams that the region has ever seen. I would like to take immortals, but I want to think about what I want to say for them. Does anybody have something to say about Shopify rebellion? Bickle, you got your fingers up, so I'll pass it over to you. [00:51:51] Speaker B: Shopify. Good effort. I genuinely think had they started with boogie from the start of the split, they would be in a better position. I think they would have taken that playoff spot instead of energy. They looked much better when they had boogie coming back and kind of had that idea of how to play things out. It's a shame it took them so long to put a it all together, but there were glimpses of hope. They've said they plan to come back. They are one of the newer teams that you mentioned. Just buying into it so I expect to see them again next year. I think some of this team will still be around. I think some parts you already mentioned fake God, he had at the very end of the season, like a couple highlight games there on the gnar, on the Renekton, on the Cassante. But I genuinely think he's probably on his way out, along with a bit of a rest of Shopify. But I think we'll see them next year. I think they're going to improve. I think the future is more hopeful. [00:52:58] Speaker A: More hopeful for Shopify Rebellion, but they're going to have a lot of rebuilding to do if they do stick around into next year. They did purchase the spot from TSM, that's what I alluded to earlier. So they are one of the orgs that has spent their own money to get to this point. If they do want to stick around, yeah, we'll wait and see what that looks like for them. And if Riot accepts them as one of the teams, so that leaves one more immortals, the consistently 9th, 10th place team, always missing playoffs, say for one time since their return. And I want to mention something that was brought up at hotline League last night. As of today's recording, at least a caller called in and said that they wanted immortals to stay because there was so much change happening in the league, so much change that has already happened over the last two years. CLG is gone. TSM is gone. We have teams like NRG, Shopify, rebellion that we've just never seen in League of Legends before. We don't know who these orgs are or what their brands are. From our community standpoint, at least we know what Immortals is. You might not like them, but their name has been on the scoreboards and on the season standings every single year, save for when Optic was around at the beginning of franchising and I guess like in the super early years as well, but since I've been around, they've only been gone for like one or two years. Optic was around, but the counterpoint to that is change is scary. But change can sometimes be good. And if you are an.org that consistently fires your coach after one split, if you're an.org that consistently blows up your roster every single year and then signs another roster that you can tell on paper is already going to be a 9th, 10th, or now in the format, you know, 7th, 8th place team, the consistency of that becomes inexcusable. And just because something is comfortable and familiar, sometimes those are the things that are. What is wrong with, you know, the trajectory that we are going. I'll say the positives for immortals as an.org, they're not the that as of recently has been driving up player salaries. They are not an.org that is overspending from their budget, but they are also just not an.org that seems like they have any desire to really move the needle in esports and that is tough to see year over year. Always hoping that they do change and that they just have not as of yet still great folks that work over there. But as as we've seen the play out and the decision making from the top down, it has looked like I said, uninspired. So we'll see if immortal seeks around. Seems like they're the team that we can't get rid. So maybe they are here next year, you never know. But that will be it for their 2024. One final thought here, I guess for lcs before we get into the LEC topics and the season finals tournament that's going on right now, a lot of conversation going around because of the regular season awards. So now that we've covered all the games that happened during the regular season, we do have MVP, rookie of the year, and All Pro. Quick, does anybody here have an MVP that they would like to argue for? None of us I don't think get votes. I don't get a vote. Mazelle? I don't know. Have you got a vote? [00:56:21] Speaker D: I do not know. [00:56:22] Speaker A: Okay, so none of us actually are shared information can be on any list, but I want to hear thoughts. Does anybody think there's a clear front runner for a most viable prospect for this last year or this last split? [00:56:34] Speaker C: Impact. [00:56:35] Speaker A: I agree. [00:56:36] Speaker B: Impact. [00:56:38] Speaker C: It's just, it's impact. It's going to be impact. [00:56:41] Speaker A: I would vote impact not just because I mean he's gotten the most player of the weeks of any player. The split from, from my understanding at least, I think somebody had mentioned that last night. But just what he is able to do. Yes. Apa opens up a whole new playstyle for Team Liquid because of what he can do in a side lane and how quickly he moves around the map. But the fact that impact just will go through every lane swap shenanigans scenario, the team liquid throws at him and just win lane regardless. And just for like the the one v two kill on Dignitas bot lane is jacks alone. That's all you need to show to be like this is how good this guy still is at League of Legends and it's insane that he's now I don't remember is he. The most games played of an LCS player. He got some big accolade this year that, like, a graphic popped up on screen. I don't remember if it was the number one most played games of any LCS player or if it was, like, top three, but either way, he's one of the goats in the region, and we need to start talking about him as such up there with the Bjergsens, up there with the double lifts, because he's been here long enough and he's accomplished enough. [00:57:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it was most games played, and I think he passed Wild turtle, and we were joking about it a few weeks ago, that if Wild Turtle came back, he could catch him. [00:57:56] Speaker A: He could. [00:57:56] Speaker C: He could catch him. He would have to go to all three games in a lot of series. [00:58:02] Speaker A: But he could catch him technically, could impact, I think, needs to be in the GOAT conversation at this point. [00:58:10] Speaker B: It. It's just impact. Hands down. He makes such an impact for. No pun intended, for Team liquid. Without him, that team is much worse off. It feels like he is so unique in his playstyle and provides so much to the team, not just in a play sense, but also a macro and overall and probably behind the scenes sense as well. He just does so much for that team. You mentioned Apa being another driving factor. I genuinely feel like if you replace Apa, this team can still go 70. I don't think they can without impact. [00:58:51] Speaker A: I think it looks different, but I won't argue that they could still go 70. I think it would be a different style without ApA, but, yeah, I think still, the point stands. [00:59:00] Speaker C: Impacts also just given so much to North America. Like, he went won his worlds, and he's like, all right, na, let's fucking run it. And he's just been giving it his best go ever since then. [00:59:11] Speaker B: Him and core. [00:59:13] Speaker A: Wait, wasn't he on the first energy iteration back in 2014? Wasn't the team he came to when he first came to Na and then he went to c nine afterwards? [00:59:25] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:59:25] Speaker A: I pretty sure he was not on c nine when he first came to na. I'm pretty sure he was on a different team in his first year. [00:59:31] Speaker B: He was on team impulse and then went to NRG. [00:59:36] Speaker A: Okay, so impulse, NRG, and then cloud nine, right? [00:59:39] Speaker B: Yes. [00:59:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Cause it's like the impact versus was a sword. Who was the top lane or not sword. They were called the sword and the shield. That's like the nicknames that they had. Ray. There we go. It was impact and Ray that were up in the top lane for c nine. That one little split. Oh, memory lane is such a fun place to visit. Yeah, I think impact MVP makes sense. Any rookie of the years, like probably Masu, sniper, sanitos. [01:00:02] Speaker B: I think awards are very boring this year. I think genuinely the consensus for MVP is impact. The consensus for rookie of the split is Masu, and the consensus for all Pro is just all the players. Fly quest team liquid and cloud nine jumbled up in some order. [01:00:20] Speaker A: I'm going to have one final point before I move to Lec about that all Pro Mongoose. Get ready to splooge. I actually think that there's an argument for Boogie in All Pro, for jungle. [01:00:32] Speaker C: Over Terry and his team. [01:00:34] Speaker A: Over whom? That is the question. I think. I don't know if I have the biggest. Wait, if like, mine's the most popular. I actually still have umpty first team. A lot of people don't have UMTI first team. They have inspired. I've inspired second team. And then it would be blabber that we dropped. I think that boogie, there's an argument. I don't know if I was actually submitting votes, if I would, but I want to give a nod to boogie because I think that he actually did look really good coming back. And technically he did play the majority of the games or the series. He played more than half the series this split. So he does qualify for. [01:01:10] Speaker C: He should at least get some votes. He deserves what he did for that team, I think deserves votes. Whether or not he deserves to be in like that top three, sure, that's another thing. But I also think we should have another award that is most impactful player. And it's not just, oh, these five players are on a team and they're all really good. It should be what player impacts their team the most from being on it and who, if you remove them from the system, which team fails? I think that could be something for a lower tier team. [01:01:46] Speaker B: Some people argue that's the true definition of the MVP, the most valuable player. You can make an argument that because he is that valuable to his team, he can be deserving of that award. [01:01:59] Speaker A: Possibly I, because that's been a time old debate. I split it 50 50. I weigh 50% of an MVP vote towards are you the best player in the league? And I weigh 50% towards are you the most impactful player on your team? And then that's where I come up with like a kind of top three, top five list. And there will be different reasons why people are on there based on how much of their side of that coin they fill out. [01:02:26] Speaker B: So I think it's genuinely rare you get a player who does both, like, impact. In this case, yeah. [01:02:32] Speaker A: Yeah. I would say cool. Well, that's lcs lot to talk about there, because it was the end of the season, but now it is time to move across the pond, and we got a lot to talk about as well. Overdose in the LEC, everyone's favorite one team region, because we all know that there's one team that will 30 their opponents in playoffs. But it might not be who you expected this last weekend. We got a 30 and we got a five game banger. And if you looked at the schedule and I told you that and you had to guess which one was which, I guarantee you you're getting it wrong. First series of the weekend, fanatic versus BDS and Bickle. What did Fnatic do? [01:03:19] Speaker B: Fnatic beat the ever living hell out of BDS. [01:03:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:23] Speaker B: Like fnatic beat him. Like they owed the money. Like, it was. It was not close. Fnatic looks like they're pissed off about what happened in the finals of summer because they came just rolling all steam ahead and they just decimated BDS. Noah played game one on the Ezreal as if to say, hey, I can pilot this champ really well. He ends the game 100 five. It's just domination all around from Fnatic. All three games, they end with over a ten k gold lead. [01:04:02] Speaker A: Yeah. In game two, it was like. So game one, it was the Ezreal for Noah, and it was ice on the Miss fortune. And then game two comes around Isis on Ziggs. And I was like, well, I'll show you how to play Miss Fortune, and kind of pops up on that one, too. But humanoid was also the one that really stepped up there. And in game three, there was just no fight left in BDS. They didn't even get a tower in game three. It was crazy, dude. So what did we learn from this. [01:04:30] Speaker C: Series fanatic coaching staff? Good. [01:04:36] Speaker A: I like that. I like that. Shout out to my boy, freeze. Or. No, no, not freeze. Sorry, the. The other twin brother. It's not night share. There we go. Shout out to nightshare, who dipped out of and went over to eu to go coach. For a fanatic, getting early leads and. [01:04:55] Speaker C: Transitioning them into wins. We like it. [01:04:57] Speaker A: We do. [01:04:58] Speaker C: Please do not throw your early leads anymore, fnatic. [01:05:01] Speaker A: Especially with how they looked against g two in the summer split finals, which were just doo doo bad. But now this is the season final, so this is for world spots. I don't believe that this win locked them world. [01:05:16] Speaker C: They have to win again. [01:05:18] Speaker B: But next series changed the matter. [01:05:23] Speaker A: It did because it made things really funky. Everyone expected and I know, sorry if you're a big fanatic fan, you wanted us to hear us talk more about how they shit on bds, but it really was just a shellacin. Like, there's not a whole lot to cover here and the next series is just so much juicier to talk about. So we're just going to move on to that one because g two versus mdk threw a wrench in everyone's prediction. So I'm just going to call it now. Made a lot of money on a bet on this series because I guarantee you the odds were really stacked against MDK. Who wouldn't, you know? Mongoose. They freaking did it. They three two'd, g two. The best team Europe has ever seen in the one team region. Talk to me about how they did it. [01:06:17] Speaker C: So there's a lot of weird picks this game from mad that came out. [01:06:22] Speaker A: Dude, Merwin. Like, what the hell? [01:06:24] Speaker C: Merwin had some weird picks. El Yoia with the Morgana jungle weird, if you want to call it weird. It's been like sort of a pick into Vi. They also had like the vex and the Galio mid that came out. I think they just had a game plan going into this and they had comps that they wanted to run and I think they just executed really well on a lot of these comps. The Galia won, maybe not the greatest, but it did go to 50 minutes. But game one, game one, g two wins pretty quickly and everyone's like, all right, here we go. G two is just going to quickly 30. It's going to be a series and we're all going to get to go home. Did not happen because game two, these ADC tops from Irwin are just popping off so hard. This is what he's wanted to play since the AP virus. He just wants to play these ad tops. [01:07:21] Speaker B: You talk about Merlin having some crazy picks. I don't think people realize how crazy some of this was. He had the 80 picks like we talked about. He had corky. [01:07:34] Speaker A: Pick. Yeah. Smulder, that's weird. AP Lulu, deathless, by the way, even though they lost the game. [01:07:45] Speaker C: He also gets the first blood on top in that game and he just blows him up, too. Lulu's damage early is crazy. [01:07:54] Speaker B: And game five, silver scrapes. Deciding pick, blind pick. Ad Nidalee top. [01:08:09] Speaker A: And gets countered by Irelia. And it just doesn't really feel like it matters. He crazy. [01:08:16] Speaker B: He builds triforce, thornmail, and abyssal mask. [01:08:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know what Merwin ate for breakfast this day, but I got to get on his meal plan because, holy crikey. It felt like at the end of this, looking at the draft that they did and looking at how g two has been performing throughout the split pick, everyone, just think in your head who the best player this summer on g two has been. And I'm going to say three, two, one. Where I'll say the name. Okay, everyone got their name. Game. Three, two, one. Broken blade. [01:08:56] Speaker D: Caps. [01:08:59] Speaker A: Okay, well, we did not all say the same thing. Damn it. I think it's been broken blade. I think broken blade's been the best performing player on g two. On sama's had a couple of really good games as well. Big carry performances. But broken Blade feels like the reason and kind of like what they're able to win the early game around. He just does not seem to have competition in top lane in Europe. And picking all these ad carries, picking like lulu top, it just neutralizes broken blade. There's not much he can do against those types of picks. So I don't know. Bigel, do you think that's the same? It felt like that was what MDK's game plan was going in. It's just don't let broken Blade play the lane. [01:09:36] Speaker B: It felt like mad Lions was playing the meta and g two wasn't. G two picked. No ad carries outside of the ad carry position. They went triple cannon with a cassante Irelia. And then they had azir, ari, Annie, Orianna. Azir. [01:09:57] Speaker A: Yeah, the Ari was injured. We have not seen Ari in a while. [01:10:00] Speaker B: And something I really want to bring up that I felt was a really big part of this as well. A caps was not looking good. He was kind of getting beat down by Frasca. But the bigger thing that I felt like, like across this entire series, yike. Was getting destroyed. He's not been looking good as of late, and Elio just was more impactful in every game across this series. [01:10:25] Speaker A: Yeah, if you're gonna pick nocturne and then have those kinds of ults in. [01:10:29] Speaker B: That game, for the Nocturne Orianna combo just did nothing. That game. It was abysmal. [01:10:38] Speaker C: And really there was. Yeah, there was a really funny moment with the nocturne, though, where he nocturne, ults and Mirwin, like, steps into fog, like, in between the nocturne and who he actually ends up ulting. And he's just like standing, like gliding, like in the fog where he can barely not be seen. And as the nocturne's flying by, the nocturne smites Mirwin. [01:11:03] Speaker A: That was a funny moment of it. [01:11:05] Speaker B: But really, it felt like the top trio of mad Lions with Merwin, El Yoyo, and frascawi, just carried the series, which is crazy to say because it's usually, like you mentioned the solo lanes of broken blade and caps for g two that are the big difference makers. [01:11:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, now we have a question. I know that Mazel said this name in who he thinks is like the better performers on g two, but I'm going to raise a question that might be a. Might be a hot take, but I'm curious what Bickle monkeys also think about this is this caps is worst split in the last, like three years since Meta? [01:11:45] Speaker C: I think this meta is not his forte. I think switching back to where we're going back into mages, I think it's going to. He's. We're going to start to see him do a lot better. But I think a lot of the ADPD was not necessarily his identity as a player. [01:12:01] Speaker A: He's still got the best azir, I think, in the region. I think he's still got like one of the best orianas, but just. Yeah, he's like, Tristana and Corki just didn't seem like they were good enough. [01:12:11] Speaker B: His Tristana was changes, Corki post changes. It was really rough pre changes. Tristana was disgusting at MSI. [01:12:20] Speaker A: Okay, yeah, true. [01:12:21] Speaker B: But it's been a really rough split, like you mentioned. In all honesty, I don't know if I'll say it's the worst in the past three years. I'd have to look back because I think he did have some rough times a while ago, but it was definitely one of his worst. [01:12:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's tough to say. I mean, obviously as a pro player, playing at the top, especially when you are considered the best for so long, so consistently, it's almost an impossible ask. So I don't say that as a slight against Caps, I just say it quizzically because I'm curious if this is actually the, you know, comparatively worse form that we've seen him in to past metas and formats. [01:13:02] Speaker C: I also think Caps is one of those players that kind of plays to his competition, because whenever we see him go to worlds and play against those higher echelon of mid laners, he always plays really, really well. I don't know if it's like maybe a motivation thing or it's just he's kind of bored in Europe and doesn't really try in the regular season. Or if maybe mid laners in Europe are kind of getting kind of getting better, maybe these two rookies coming in or have more hands than Caps is ready for. [01:13:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, we've seen that happen in NA as well. Players like APA and even arguably Jojo Pew and stepping up to, I guess AP never really played against Bjergsen, but, like, Bjergsen and Jensen, who had been the goats for a while. Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's g two. They got knocked down. Nobody saw this coming. We all had like three zeros for g two in predictions and I think pretty deservedly so. Nobody really gave MDK the time of day or the respect that they would have what it takes to pull this off. [01:14:05] Speaker B: So with this loss from g two, we talked about it earlier. This makes world's qualification really funky because originally it was okay, whoever wins these first two series with the fact that g two is going to win will qualify for worlds. But g two has already locked themselves a spot into worlds. So now with the fact that g 2 may bomb out in the losers bracket means you need to make top two to lock worlds. However, if g two goes on a lower bracket run, which I think almost all of us are expecting, that means our three teams for the lec at worlds, our g two fanatic and mad lions. [01:14:50] Speaker A: Wow. I who thought that mad could pull that off? Frickin no one. No. [01:14:58] Speaker C: No one. [01:14:59] Speaker A: Well, I didn't. I didn't even think I'd have to. I haven't come up with a name for them in, like, spain. [01:15:04] Speaker B: And that's it. [01:15:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. True. Many donkey kongs pulling it off, though. I mean, I mean, props to them. And I think that now the series against fnatic is going to be much more exciting because if it was g two fnatic up there, it was. So it's sometimes delivers, oftentimes delivers. But it just feels like, okay, this is just the preview of the actual finals we're going to get. Let's see, fnatic either win this and they get slaughtered in finals or just like, see g two pop off. But now it's like, wait a minute. What if mdk makes finals? That's gonna be wild. [01:15:39] Speaker B: If this ends up just leading to another g two fanatic finals, I'm going to be so sad. [01:15:45] Speaker D: Wouldn't that be so funny, though? [01:15:46] Speaker A: It'd be so. [01:15:47] Speaker B: Just disappointing. [01:15:51] Speaker A: But g two is really k had. [01:15:53] Speaker C: So much time to prepare for this series because they knew they were probably gonna play g two and so they were just like, what can we play? And now we might just see it all come crashing down. But apparently they've been doing really well in scrims. [01:16:07] Speaker A: Well, I didn't know here about the scrims part, but my read was that they had a really good draft plan against g two and they executed that and it was a flash in the pan. And next time g two plays against them, g two was going to be much more prepared for merwin's champ pool. [01:16:21] Speaker B: They actually, during that giant break that they actually boot camped in Spain. [01:16:28] Speaker A: Just good for them. Madrid, they had some good espresso over there. I don't know if Spain's known for its espresso. That's just I couldn't think of anything else about Spain. Everyone say their favorite Spain fact in the community discord let me know. But that means that g two is going to the lower bracket. MDK versus fnatic will happen not this next week, but the week after that because they're going to be in the upper finals. But we got the losers bracket to cover. Next up, going into next week, let's cover predictions. G two will take on GX as the second series. Let's actually talk about the first series. Chronologically. It is BDS versus SK. SK. SK was waiting in the lower bracket. Bds getting slaughtered by fnatic are coming in bit of a low point, but they have a best of five in front of them. And we all still have faith in BDS. We got three twos across the board except for mongoose, who's got a three one. Bickel, why do you favor bds? Overdose. [01:17:23] Speaker B: I think BDS has shown they have potential to be a top three team. They've been consistent for a while. Also, I think SK may have been prepping a bit for mad Lions and then been like, oh, shit, we actually have to play BDS because g two dropped the ball, which doesn't help them out. But really, the last time we saw SK, it was a very large letdown by them. And BDS has shown they have the players, they can have that consistency. I don't think it was so much them playing extremely poorly against Fnatic. I think Fnatic's just better than them and I think BDS is just better than SK. [01:18:04] Speaker A: Reminder. This was the number one and two seed coming out of summer regular season. Into the playoffs, SK and BDS were both eight and one at the end of the regular summer season. It's crazy to see them both now against each other. They're in the season finals, one of them taking a very early bow out of that world's contention. So we all believe in BDS. SK still can bring them competition, though. Mongoose is the only one thinking only a three one. Mongoose. Didn't you say three ones were boring? What the hell? [01:18:35] Speaker C: Three ones are boring. But I really, really, really want irrelevant to just pop off for one game. I want him to solo kill the fuck out of adam and just put him in his place. [01:18:45] Speaker D: Backtracking a little bit there, I see. [01:18:47] Speaker A: Hmm. [01:18:48] Speaker C: I think it's funny when it's a one player. [01:18:53] Speaker A: The least biased caster. [01:18:55] Speaker C: I also for. I also forgot who was on sK. Sounds like I'll give him a game. [01:18:59] Speaker A: Okay. [01:19:05] Speaker C: All right, well, I was looking them up as you guys were talking to see like, what can I, what can I say to make this viable? [01:19:14] Speaker A: Alright, well, that's the first series of the weekend. Second series is g two versus Gx, the battle of the guzz. Unfortunately, only one guh will stay in contention for worlds. Despite the fact that I, like two weeks ago we made a joke that in order to make worlds, you just have to start your with a g in the name. We all still have g two, but I don't even know, dude. Like, I kind of want to put Gx after how g two looked. There's no way. So I have g two with a three one. Everybody else says g 230, but if g two is going to play like that, where they just think that they're better and don't respect their opponent, I think they're in for a world of hurt. But likely Gx had been spending a lot of time prepping to go up against MDK, who they most likely thought would be their opponent. Actually, I don't know how seeding works. Would it just be like, like the higher seed goes into that one against Gx? So maybe they were prepping against bds. [01:20:08] Speaker B: Gx prepped for either bds or fanatics. They would have expected g two to win that series. [01:20:14] Speaker A: Point is, I doubt that they were prepping for g two of all teams. And Gx is probably like, what the hell, guys? Why is this who we have to play to keep our world's dreams alive? I give him a game because of how rough g two looked this last weekend. But everyone's so confident. Mongoose, why are you still so confident in g two? 30. [01:20:36] Speaker C: As much as I love juhan, fuck ignor I forgot. [01:20:41] Speaker A: I should not have ever asked you any opinion about. [01:20:44] Speaker C: I appreciate it though. [01:20:45] Speaker A: Thank you. This roster mazelle, anything to add? Maybe like a positive thing about ignor. [01:20:53] Speaker D: He's a cool guy. [01:20:55] Speaker C: He's not. [01:20:56] Speaker A: He won lcs. There you go. Last year summer. Can't take that away from it. All right, there we go. That's our predictions for Lec next week for season finals tournament continued we will be saying goodbye to two teams as their season will end. So we can eulogize them at that point, but we will still at least get to see them for one more best of five. Thanks for sticking around everybody, for a slightly longer than intended podcast, but we had a lot of fun talking about random topics like MVP votes and such. So again, if you want to give your thoughts and your input into things like that, MVP all Pro teams rookie of the split for lcs, hop into the community discord. If you want to give us our thoughts on why g two actually lost their series or why GX could win the series, you can also join the Community discord. Let us know everything that's on your mind about League of Legends. We also got some fun community game nights that we are planning. If you want to support the pod, you can do so through our patreon. You'll find the link in the description wherever you are listening, as well as our brand new website. If you want a mug that says league rundown or a baseball cap with how many stars? Mazelle five. Five stars on the back of it, which coincidentally could be the number of stars you leave for this podcast episode, you can check out league Dash rundown, Dash shop dot fourthwall.com. everything that you're putting towards supporting the podcast will go towards our audio editor as well as some fun off season content that we have in the works, but that will do it for this week's episode. Thank you so much for listening everybody. We love you ya and we will see you next time. Bye bye bye. Peace.