League Rundown - Episode 510: “You know, they’re actually not that bad this year! AKA the MSI logo review”

[00:01:07] Speaker A: Hello and welcome everyone, to the league rundown. Episode 510 MSI and minor play in preview this episode is openly titled. You know, they're not actually that bad this year, aka the MSI logo review. I'm Kangas, and I'll be your host. Everyone go into the discord and wish Duffy a very happy birthday, since he will not be joining us on today's episode. But those who will be joining me on the episode are the ever present Jack Zoman. [00:01:35] Speaker B: God, I just realized when he retires, he's gonna age up so fast, you. [00:01:39] Speaker A: Know, we might have to retire the bit alongside him. No, I think it's funnier if he. [00:01:44] Speaker B: Just gets hundreds of years old. [00:01:46] Speaker A: That's a good point, actually. I haven't thought of it that way. [00:01:48] Speaker B: Also, twitch TV Jackson, there you go. [00:01:52] Speaker A: You are on the same page. Sweet as well. Joining us, we have slickle on the pod. [00:01:59] Speaker C: For as long as this podcast goes on, Duffy will become the ageless wonder, gaining a birthday every week. [00:02:06] Speaker A: Yep, it's gonna be like a doctor who changeover where everybody hates the new doctor and they're like, we miss the old one for like a solid three years until the next transformation happens. Shout out to any doctor who fans, by the way, you're the real ones. And also joining us again as a repeat guest now we have Hawk, one of the collegiate and challengers league casters, alongside CB Lowell, unofficial and for a brief time, official english broadcaster. Welcome back, oc. [00:02:37] Speaker D: Rest in peace, CB little english official, one split wonder, but we gave it our all for sure. I also feel like there's a joke that I'm definitely not in on with Duffy here. [00:02:49] Speaker A: So the joke was every time Duffy would miss an episode, I would step into host. And the first time, I don't even remember why, I think it was just on the spot. I came up with like, oh, it's his birthday. Like, he's taking it off for that. Like, go wish him happy birthday as a joke. And then people actually did it in the discord. So now every time he's gone, it is his birthday. [00:03:08] Speaker D: I know. [00:03:09] Speaker A: You just spoiled it. I fully believe actually gone into discord. [00:03:13] Speaker D: I would have not known. I mean, maybe it is his birthday. I don't know. [00:03:18] Speaker A: You know, that's a fun fact is I actually don't know when his birthday is. So anytime I say it, there's a chance it could be every day. It's a Pandora's birthday. Or, no, not Pandora. It's what's the cat in the box? Schrodinger's birthday. There we go. Duffy is Schrodinger's birthday. Well, this is going to be the cast for the day. We're going to be talking about MSI going forward, kind of giving you a preview of what the format looks like because we haven't really dove into that on the episode proper yet. And then also talking about the play ins stage and the teams kind of what to expect. We talked about some of the major regions last episode with LPL and LCK. This episode we have Ben to talk about CBD and we'll give our initial thoughts on some of the other regions. But mostly you love it. It happens every year. We're talking about the logo review and this time I actually have a tier list maker. So I'm going to be building a tier list on the episode and then we'll post it into the discord with all of our thoughts as to who's got the best logos going into it because that's what a lot of people care about. Who cares who wins the league or the tournament? We care about who looks the best doing it. But before that, we have some news to cover. So if you are following along, want to check out MSI? It will begin May 1 and the play ins will end on May 5. So it's kind of like the little pre tournament. Before the tournament starts, the first seeds of the major regions have already skipped to the main stage. So the plans will just be the second seed from the major regions alongside the minor regions, and then the main stage will begin on May 7. But what will not be between May 1 5th for plans or May 7 onward is one particular casting member. Hawk, have you seen this one yet? Captain Flowers posted a video on socials mentioning that he will not be attending MSI and given some of the reasons for it. [00:05:04] Speaker D: Yeah, I actually did not see this video. However, I knew this was going to happen because I actually got the chance to talk to him about it like a couple weeks ago. [00:05:12] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:05:13] Speaker D: So, yeah, I mean, it's unfortunate that he's not going to be on the cast because he is. I mean, one of the good. He's disgusting. He's the guy and he's our favorite in North America. But I mean, he's got his reasons for not doing it, which I think are all completely valid. And it's not like he's. I don't think he's necessarily stepping away because of like, oh, he doesn't want to cast. Right. There's a lot of very valid reasons and I mean, I'm sure he'll be back for worlds, which will be in Europe. [00:05:39] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's tough to not see him because flowers is always one of the casters where when he's at an international event from the beginning, you're like, is he going to get finals? You know, he's just that caliber of cast. [00:05:53] Speaker D: Maybe another atlas. [00:05:54] Speaker A: Finally that guy's. There could be another Atlas finals. Yeah. Any other thoughts, Jax or Bickle, on not seeing flowers for MSR? [00:06:03] Speaker B: Do we want to give the TLDR of his reasons for our listeners? [00:06:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, sure. [00:06:07] Speaker B: Give us thoughts. So basically, it's like a 25 hours flight from LA to get to the venue, and he's allergic to some of the most common ingredients in chinese cuisine to where he thinks that he's going to absolutely suffer if he goes having soy allergy. [00:06:26] Speaker C: China is just a death sentence. You're going to be sick with everything you eat. [00:06:30] Speaker D: Really sucks. But, like, I mean, I completely understand not going for that reason. [00:06:36] Speaker B: Like, if you remove the allergy, maybe he'd be like, just suck it up for the one day flight for the event. But, like, with that allergy in there, no, hundred percent. Like, I think he'd be crazy to go. [00:06:47] Speaker A: Given that situation and also given the historical context that he's given in the past, publicly stating traveling for international shows is difficult on his health, his physical health, his mental health, it's a big change. As somebody who has traveled as well and also had to flip sleep schedules for shows, it really does affect you for longer than just like, the days that you're doing it for. It's a whole cycle to get to that point where you're finally comfortable and able to be a broadcaster and then to come back and reflip, that can be very taxing. You couple that with the health, legitimate health concerns of like, the diet restriction, there's a lot of difficulty for, you know, somebody like flowers to commit to that. So we will miss him. I'm sure a lot of the fans will miss him, but wishing him the best of luck and I'm sure he'll be enjoying from home. Who knows? Maybe. Can't promise anything. I will be asking if he wants to hop on an episode at some time, so maybe we can get him on to at least chat MSI with us. So that'd be fun. [00:07:47] Speaker B: That'd be cool. Please try. [00:07:51] Speaker A: Other than that, though, outside of MSI News, not a lot of roster news going on, but one piece of information that did officially drop dignitas parting ways with rich slickel. We are losing the trickle down mechanics, rest in peace. [00:08:07] Speaker C: Trickle down mechanics, rest in peace, my Illidan God. Rest in peace. [00:08:12] Speaker A: The hots faker, the hotspaker. Ben, did you hear about that? The trickle down mechanics. [00:08:20] Speaker D: Oh, wait, no, no. I don't know what this, this reference is. [00:08:23] Speaker A: It was a reference that mongoose, a main sea of the cast made because he's a big, rich fan and was like, he's coming from, what was it? Heroes of the storm. And he, you know, he's bringing the mechanics from there and it's going to trickle down to our players. Trickle down mechanics. [00:08:39] Speaker D: Interesting theory that is. [00:08:41] Speaker A: You know, arguably, just like, trickle down economics did not work. [00:08:46] Speaker D: Sounds like this is just as facetious as that concept. Yeah, yeah. [00:08:51] Speaker A: Oh, boy. A bit, a bit, but it's what, we'll see what dignitas does with the top lane. A lot of rumors going around this before this happened. Serdi's up there, licorice as well. Another top laner. Serti's got a little more hype around him immediately. If you don't know about this player, he is a top challengers league player. We've been saying for a year, year and a half that he's lcs ready. Um, and then he just, uh, got a lot of notoriety on socials like Reddit and Twitter for hitting challengers with a 94% win rate account. Started a fresh account, and with 94% win rate, hit challenger, which is unheard of. I've heard of players hitting that in like 75%, but 94% of his games he won on the way to challengers is insane. Uh, and that alone got him a lot of, like, scouts looking at him. Funnily enough, arguably more than any of his performances in the Challengers League, which is kind of sad, but it's kind of the reality of the situation. So, yeah, a lot of folks, Bickle or Jax, have either of you got, like, favorites, top laners that you'd like to come in and see replace rich? [00:09:58] Speaker B: No one in particular. [00:09:59] Speaker C: I think you hit the two main ones on the head. [00:10:03] Speaker A: No, no. Revenge. Oh, I guess he technically retired, right? He retired, yeah. All right. Yeah, I'm thinking of the other licorice. [00:10:10] Speaker D: And Serdi probably carry like, licorice has the fan value, name value, and experience, whereas Serdi is like, by far the most hype young guy that you could bring on. [00:10:18] Speaker A: So what about allorim, everyone? Remember that guy? [00:10:23] Speaker D: Sorry, Steve, did you not watch Mirage alliance for an entire split? [00:10:26] Speaker A: I'm just trying to think of other top laners, man. Give me a break. All right. It's probably one of the alorum's my goat. [00:10:31] Speaker D: Don't get me wrong, that guy's great, but, you know, maybe not. Lcs ready? [00:10:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, a slower weekend for news, but that's some of the big stuff that happened. Other than that reminder for everybody, this is news. Come check out the discord. Come hang out with us. We got discussions going on all split long about lcs and Lec, so if you're looking for people to chat with that about, come hang out. But specifically going forward, we're gonna be looking a lot at MSI. So a lot of discussions about the playing teams, performances of the teams who we think are favorites. All kinds of stuff in there. So come check it out. We also got pickems and fantasy during the regular splits for lcs and LEc. I actually don't know. Are we going to have anything for MSI? Does any, any of the other mainstay hosts know anything about that? I know that it was up in the air if it was going to happen or not. I don't know if there's been anything yet. [00:11:20] Speaker C: Haven't heard anything either way. [00:11:22] Speaker A: All right, well, I'll take a look at the discord later, but come, if you haven't joined already, come check it out. They'll be posting in there and we maybe will have some fun stuff for MSI as well. Patreons, y'all rock. Or everyone who supports us on Patreon. Rather. We have little episodes that we upload, kind of like the first, you know, ten to 15 minutes of our recordings before we actually get into the episode proper. That's for the highest tier. So if you want to come support the pod and specifically support our audio editor, Ian, shout out to the tromboners out there. We appreciate anything that you are willing to give, and you can get some extra content unlocked as a little bonus if you're willing to support. So thank you so much. With that said, that's everything to get us into the episode proper. MSI is starting off this week, and another international. People get so excited for these. We know riot invests a lot into the international events specifically, and this is the stage where teams and regions get to prove their stuff. Jax, start us off here. Give me the kind of overarching schedule and kind of what MSI looks like. What are we in for over the next week or two here? [00:12:31] Speaker B: All right, so this coming week is the play in stage. It is a double elimination, best of three bracket. If you have watched LEC, it's basically the LEC middle stage of their playoffs before the best of fives. Eight teams, they play best of threes against each other. Two wins and they advance. Two losses and they're out. [00:12:58] Speaker A: Very simple. Yeah, yeah. [00:12:59] Speaker B: Very, very simple. We have two groups, t one and istral esports. Start us off in Group A with Flyquest and PSG as the other match up in Group A, winners of those will play each other. Winners, that advances. Group B starts out with top esports against loud and then fnatic versus gam. [00:13:21] Speaker A: And the do we ever determine if you lose your first match? But when you're second, do you play the team from your group or do you play the team from the other group? [00:13:32] Speaker B: From your group is what it looks. [00:13:33] Speaker A: Like from your group. Interesting. I like it more when it's from the other group. I'm surprised they don't swap that. [00:13:39] Speaker B: The key here is, unlike last year, four teams are advancing from the play ins. Last year, we had two korean seeds automatically seeded into main stage. This year, they're not doing that. So that's why there's just two teams from each group advance. Instead of last year, we had a best of five to round out play inside to decide which of the losers bracket actually advanced. [00:14:05] Speaker A: Interesting. Good note there. Okay, so we did get a little cross group stuff last year, but things have swapped up this time around because out of the twelve total teams, eight of them are going to be in this kind of play ins format. So like we said before, the first seeds from the major regions, which is four teams, have already gone to the main stage, though. [00:14:25] Speaker B: Yep. [00:14:26] Speaker A: Cool. So we have four teams advanced to the main stage. Then what's that look like? [00:14:31] Speaker B: Main stage is just a double elimination bracket. A draw will happen after play ins and then they play best of fives until there's only one team left. [00:14:43] Speaker C: And there are some caveats going on with the draw. Like Jack said, we've already had the draw done. For play ins, they were seeded with the LCK and LPL being pool one teams, LEc LCs being pool two teams. PCs, vcs, pool three, La CBL, pool four. And going into the main stage it's again Lck and LPL. One seeds are the pool one, LeC and lcs. First seeds are the pool two seeds. The two teams that come out of the plains at 20 are going to be your three seeds, and the two teams that come out at two one are your four seeds. Now teams that are in the same pool. So pool one teams are going to be on the opposite sides of the bracket and a change that's occurred from last year. Now, teams from the same region are guaranteed to be on opposite sides of the bracket. So there will be no civil war matchups in round two like there were last year. [00:15:36] Speaker A: That was a bummer last year, where we basically just had region finals, part two from spring split for every region until the lower brackets. [00:15:48] Speaker B: No, the lower bracket was also. [00:15:49] Speaker A: That was the problem. [00:15:51] Speaker D: Also means, I guess, if you're. If you're a fan of western civil wars. Right. Or anyone that's not LCK, LPl, hope t one or tes fumbles the bag in group stage a little bit and somehow ends up in pool four would be extremely funny, because then they. They would have to play another LCK or LPL team in the first round. [00:16:11] Speaker A: That would be wild. That'd be really, really fun. So. And alongside that, so double elimination, we have the seating down. Uh, there's an extra little incentive, uh, for, uh, positive performers at this MSI that I believe this is the first time they've done anything. [00:16:28] Speaker D: Yeah, this is the first time. Somehow it took us 14 years to get here. [00:16:31] Speaker A: Yeah, jax, what is it, though? [00:16:33] Speaker B: So the second best region in the final standings will unlock additional seed for its league at worlds. The winner of MSI will just qualify for worlds. [00:16:43] Speaker A: That's crazy. As long as they also qualify for playoffs in their local regions next split. If not, not. I don't know what happens after that. In fact, I assume it would go back to traditional way, right? [00:16:56] Speaker D: Like the. Yeah, the winner and runner up would have four seeds, with the winner more than likely being, you know, an auto bid. And then. [00:17:04] Speaker A: But notably, and this is a crazy world if this happens, but imagine a world where a loud get second place. CBO has got two seeds at worlds. [00:17:16] Speaker D: The dankest timeline right there. [00:17:20] Speaker A: Imagine loud wins. [00:17:21] Speaker B: That's the dang with timeline. [00:17:25] Speaker A: Loud wins. [00:17:26] Speaker D: Loud goes as an auto bid. And then there's a second still. [00:17:29] Speaker A: Like. [00:17:29] Speaker D: Like, is that how the winner of Cibulo, the runner up, or Stabilo would still go? [00:17:33] Speaker B: Okay, I believe that is how it would work, is the winner is gonna be just seated directly into probably the main stage. [00:17:40] Speaker C: That's. [00:17:40] Speaker D: No one's exactly what happens if it's anyone other than LCK or LP two in this tournament. [00:17:46] Speaker B: Like, look, looking at the. The current breakdown of qualified for swiss stage four worlds, there is a separate slot for MSI winner that is not tied to any region and a separate slot for MSI runner up that is not tied to any region. [00:18:03] Speaker A: Okay. [00:18:03] Speaker D: Okay. [00:18:04] Speaker C: Basically, that's what I'm forming regions are going to get an extra seat at worlds. It's just that whoever wins MSI takes one of their region spots. [00:18:13] Speaker A: Okay. [00:18:14] Speaker B: Specifically seeded directly into Swiss. Yes, yes. [00:18:18] Speaker A: Good to know. Good. And also for anybody wondering, because I had asked this earlier and Jax and Bickle both had the answer, imagine it's like t one Gen G in the finals. It is double elimination. So we have a lower bracket which will determine a third place team. Whoever that third place team's region belongs to, they would be the second highest performing region at MSI, earning their region that extra world spot. So again, we're assuming it's going to be Lpl, lck. That's what the international scene has been like since 2019. MSI, where, you know, we actually got g two team battle of the Atlantic. That was crazy, man. These guys have. [00:18:56] Speaker D: I mean, that's all I'm saying. Everybody gangster till he solo kills faker. [00:18:59] Speaker C: Wasn't he at worlds? [00:19:00] Speaker B: He's going to solo kill faker. [00:19:02] Speaker A: He was at. [00:19:03] Speaker D: He was at worlds, but. But he's better now. [00:19:07] Speaker A: He's unleashed. I like that. I like that. [00:19:09] Speaker D: He's got all chat in his side now. [00:19:12] Speaker A: See, he didn't know how to type in korean last year at worlds, but he's probably learned from impacts now at this point. So now he can actually type to faker and like, it gets him get under his skin. [00:19:22] Speaker B: God, I hope so. [00:19:24] Speaker A: Anything else from format, though for MSI? I feel like that's the play ins, that's the technical, like bracket stage. You know, usually it's just a group stage. This time it's just bracket stage double elimination and the kind of implications for high performance are on the line. Anything else major to cover? [00:19:39] Speaker B: I wanted to touch on when these games are going to happen. [00:19:42] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Play in stage begins at 01:00 a.m. Pacific time, May 1. It concludes the final match will be starting at 04:00 a.m. Pacific time on Sunday, May 5. And again, that's a best of three. So it'll be like 07:00 a.m. Pacific time ish. When that concludes, assuming it goes to three games. Yeah, there's only like a two day gap then, because Tuesday, May 7 is when the bracket stage starts, it's going to be wild. And listeners, that does mean, heads up, the episodes are going to be coming out at weird times for the next couple of weeks because we have to record around this schedule. And if an episode drops a day into bracket stage, I'm sorry, that's just how it has to happen. [00:20:36] Speaker A: Yeah, we have very tight turnaround between play ins and group stage, so we'll try our best to get stuff out. But, yeah, again, we're operating under our own personal schedules as well. [00:20:49] Speaker C: This is a really minor thing that I was just looking through the schedule and saw. Is there any reason that on May 11 and May 12, the games are at 09:00 p.m. Pacific every other day. [00:20:59] Speaker D: It'S 02:00 a.m.. Pacific because they're really based. [00:21:04] Speaker A: You know, that's a great question, and I wish I had an answer for you. [00:21:08] Speaker B: It's because there are two series those days. [00:21:13] Speaker D: Oh, you're right. [00:21:14] Speaker B: They're starting at 09:00 a.m. Pacific on May 10, and then another series is happening at 02:00 a.m. Pacific on May 11. [00:21:22] Speaker C: You're right. I was missing that because I was looking at it on a leaked PDF where it just shows brackets round one, bracket round two. And that's broken up. [00:21:30] Speaker A: That's why. [00:21:30] Speaker B: Because those days have two best of fives in them. [00:21:33] Speaker C: All right, carry on. [00:21:34] Speaker A: Makes sense. [00:21:34] Speaker B: There is a good reason. It's not bullshit. [00:21:40] Speaker A: Well, that's everything for MSI in the format and what to expect, when to expect it. So thank you, Jax, for walking us through that. Now, let's talk about who to expect because we do, in fact, have teams to cover here. Now, we've talked about lcs and Lec throughout the entire split, throughout the entire year. We kind of have expectations for power level going in. We talked about LPL and LCK, last week's episode with the lovely Mazelle, as well as ox coming on from the LCK to chat about kind of who on the Korea's side is somebody you should keep your eyes on as potential winners. Now, this episode, we get to have some fun. We are doing our logo review episode where we cover everybody's logos and tell you who is the best purely based on how much we like them by looking at them on a sheet of paper. Not even the team, not even the roster, just the logo. One of my favorite episodes to do. I'm happy I get to actually host this one. And like I said, this time we're going to do things slightly differently. It's basically going to be the same. We're going to go through each logo, but we are going to, as a team here, put them onto a tier list, which I will then screenshot and put into the discord. And then you can flame us as much as you want for our own decisions the way this is going to work is I'm going to have each person in order and then pick any logo that they want from any team at MSI. [00:23:06] Speaker B: Okay? [00:23:07] Speaker A: You then give what tier you want them to go into at the end. I'm going to have the tier list built. Each of us gets one movement. If we disagree with somebody else's, we can move a logo up one or down one on the tier list. Only one and only one position. And you can also choose to abstain. If you agree with where everything is. You can just be like, nah, it's fine, you know, however it is right there. Are there any questions for how we're going to do the format for this year's episode? [00:23:37] Speaker D: I have no questions. I just appreciate how many rules there are so we're not just like, going at each other's throats to do this. [00:23:44] Speaker B: Fearless, it's so cute that you think any of those rules will matter. They will all be thrown out within like 3 seconds. [00:23:50] Speaker D: If one of you guys puts gam's logo in anywhere other than s plus, we're gonna have some words like, well. [00:23:56] Speaker A: You know what, hawk, you are the guest, so I will allow you to go first. So pick any team that you want and tell me where you want them to go between s plus, SabCD and e. Well, which. You know what? E is boring. We're gonna change that to f tier. I think that should be f. That's the basement dwellers. [00:24:12] Speaker D: Okay. [00:24:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Ooh. [00:24:15] Speaker D: Okay, I have a quick, quick question. Is that the PSG logo we're going. No, because they have the different one for like, esports. [00:24:22] Speaker C: That's the football team for Paris Saint Germain. We are talking PSG Talon. [00:24:29] Speaker A: That is a good point. This was a. An MSI 2024, you know, tier list that I found already created. We are going to operate on the correct one. I will photoshop it in post. [00:24:43] Speaker D: Okay, good. Sounds good. [00:24:45] Speaker A: Use whatever one is on game or a leaked PDF, or like, whatever the official league of Legends logo is. [00:24:50] Speaker B: We're judging the actual logos, not what this random tier list uses. [00:24:54] Speaker D: Yes, I think everything else is accurate, except for. For that one. [00:24:58] Speaker C: But it's just that one. [00:24:59] Speaker D: Yeah. Regardless, Steve, I appreciate the honors. I guess I already tipped my hand a little bit. Cause this is the one I feel strongest about. I know you brought me on to talk about Cibilol. That logo though, just a green triangle. Gam, however, two pistols with the wings. Badass as hell. Put that up in s plus immediately. [00:25:18] Speaker A: Gam esports the old gigabyte marines again, you know, video gig. Video gags in audio format. I'm happy that you at least explained. If anybody does not know, this logo is sick. Basically two cross pistols and the handles turn into wings. There's like a little helmet which is like the. The m, I guess. [00:25:42] Speaker D: You know, it's. [00:25:43] Speaker B: They used to be the gigabyte marines. [00:25:46] Speaker A: Mm hmm. [00:25:47] Speaker B: And it's. [00:25:47] Speaker A: Oh, m for marines. Okay. [00:25:48] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:25:49] Speaker A: I like that. [00:25:50] Speaker D: It's possible. [00:25:51] Speaker A: Jack Speckle. I'm just. Thoughts? How do we agree? I like this place personally. [00:25:56] Speaker C: There's no other place it can go. [00:25:58] Speaker B: I think it's one of two teams that belong there. Out of this team, there's one more. [00:26:02] Speaker C: Logo that belongs in that s plus. [00:26:04] Speaker A: I believe they have not missed gigabyte marines. [00:26:07] Speaker D: Their uniforms are also always, like, so nice looking. Like their branding. [00:26:11] Speaker A: Top notch. [00:26:12] Speaker D: Except for the fact that they're called gamma, not gigabyte marines anymore. [00:26:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:16] Speaker A: I will agree with that. But I'm still happy that, like, there's hints of the old identity in the logo itself. And it's so unique, man. It's not simplistic. Like, a lot of logos have gone to where it's like, oh, minimize every detail. There's a lot of details in this logo. [00:26:33] Speaker D: Honestly. It's very 40k. [00:26:36] Speaker A: It kind of is. Yeah. [00:26:37] Speaker B: It's also not just a fucking shield. Like half of the play ins logos have been in years past. [00:26:42] Speaker D: This is. [00:26:43] Speaker A: Yes. Looks great on the flag, looks great on the jersey, and looks great on the tier list. So. Okay. Looks like there's not a lot to talk about. We're all pretty much in agreement. Gam's logo is incredible. Jax, you are up next here. Pick any of the remaining logos that you want to put anywhere on the tier list. [00:27:01] Speaker B: Hawk hinted at it a bit. Loud's logo is literally a 02550 triangle. It is f tier. It is the worst logo. The only logo that exists in esports that is worse than this logo is detonation. Focus me. [00:27:17] Speaker C: Hey, that one stated their logo. [00:27:19] Speaker A: We hate that one. [00:27:21] Speaker D: Clearly there are some other worse ones than that. [00:27:24] Speaker B: I hate loud's logo. I don't understand why they chose literally 02550 Rgb green. I don't understand why it's just a triangle. What does a fucking triangle have to do with loud? [00:27:38] Speaker A: It's okay. Let's actually break it down. Isn't it like a play button? Like you're. Like you're. You're playing a video or like, you know, like start. You know, something like that. [00:27:47] Speaker B: Then why isn't their logo like a boombox. That would be cool. [00:27:51] Speaker A: It's also usually red. I think this button. Yeah, well, reds can be. Sit up, bake. All your thoughts, though. [00:27:58] Speaker C: I mean, what else is there to say? It's a terrible logo. [00:28:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:04] Speaker C: There's another logo that I think is pretty bad, but I don't think it compares to this. Like, I wouldn't put anything else down here enough. I think it stands alone. It's the worst logo. [00:28:11] Speaker A: It's pretty. Pretty trashy. Yeah. Okay. [00:28:14] Speaker D: It's. It's a nice color. Green. I I might concern you guys with this. You say it's the worst logo in esports. There are worse logos in the CB. [00:28:21] Speaker A: Low, so, you know, in the CB low. [00:28:24] Speaker B: Oh, hang on. I'm going to CB low right now. [00:28:27] Speaker A: Loud. [00:28:28] Speaker D: Might not even be in the bottom three lows. Grungies and int z. Not impressed. [00:28:35] Speaker A: Int z, it's just the letters, right? Or have they changed? [00:28:38] Speaker D: Just int z in, like, block text. Yeah, los grungius is, like. It's the word los, but, like, with the slash through. [00:28:47] Speaker B: I would take both of those over this ten times. [00:28:50] Speaker A: Really? [00:28:51] Speaker D: Wow. [00:28:52] Speaker A: Okay. [00:28:52] Speaker D: I disagree, but. But sure. [00:28:55] Speaker A: It's supposed to be a d now. I'm sure. I really want to figure out, like, the reasoning behind this shape. It's a triangle. I kind of could, like a capital d sideways. I wish I knew. Yeah, I'm not sure. Well, either way, Jax is putting it in the f tier, so maybe we move it around. I doubt anyone cares enough, slickle, I'm gonna have you go next, and then I will round us out here. [00:29:22] Speaker C: All right. I think gam needs some company up in the s plus tier. I think it's the only other logo that can go up there. It's got to be g two. [00:29:30] Speaker D: Yes, it's g. This game, samurai with. [00:29:34] Speaker C: The built in g two in the mask, peak level logo. Just nothing else to say. [00:29:41] Speaker B: Yep. [00:29:41] Speaker A: What my favorite part about this logo. I probably said this before, but maybe not. My favorite part of the logo is how they can incorporate it into the brand outside of just being a logo. The fact that it is a mask and they can have a literal mask mascot wearing it is peak branding. They can build a helmet and have somebody wear the helmet. Peak branding. It's incredible. [00:30:08] Speaker C: Yeah, it's phenomenal. [00:30:09] Speaker D: I almost wish g two leaned into it more, though. Like, I feel like, you know, they have the mascot and everything, but they don't lean into the whole, like, samurai vibe very much at all. [00:30:17] Speaker B: I feel like they leaned into it more when unicorns of love was in the lec, and they were, like, trying to drum up the, like, rivalry between them. [00:30:27] Speaker A: And now Romaine begird's on g two, so they don't need to do that anymore. [00:30:30] Speaker B: Exactly. I feel like just no one in Lec has stepped up to challenge them on the branding game, so they're just complacent. [00:30:37] Speaker A: And for anybody unaware, Romaine Beguird was the guy on unicorns I love. Notable for wearing the fuzzy boots and having the unicorn helmet on and doing the full body paint. Now he does that for g two. I don't know if he's general manager. He's got some title over there. [00:30:52] Speaker B: The last time we saw the samurai, I think it was Lothar wearing it, probably. [00:30:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it was against unicorns of love. If I. If I don't, if memory serves, there was a finals between those two. Yeah. Great logo. It's one of the classics. It's one of the last, in my opinion. Well, you know, I'm not gonna say. I was gonna say it's one of the last great, like Lec or LCs logos, but that's just my inner ClG bias coming out. There's other. [00:31:18] Speaker B: Our logos have slowly been getting worse over the years as they get redesigned and lose all texture and quality to them. [00:31:26] Speaker A: But you know what? One is not changing and has not changed and is going to be my pick. We have currently gam in s plus, g two, and s plus and loud in f tier. I'm going to put one on for myself, and in my opinion, I still think this is a very classy logo. I'm going to go more in the middle. I think the team liquid shield with the horsey on it is a solid a tier. I don't think it's, like, crazy good, but it's way better than its contemporaries. And again, for the branding purposes, they have the mascot, blue. It's a little corny, but I like it. There's something to do with this logo, which I think is really cool, but I still also wish they would lean into it more. I've been pitching to Steve and their content team. They need to have coconuts in the audience when players come out on stage, so they do the monty python bit where they go, clip clop, clip clop, clip clop, and have the players play into that. And they have not texted me back. But that's my own thing. Eventually we'll get that to happen. What are thoughts, though, on team liquids logo and a tier? [00:32:32] Speaker B: I think they'd be s tier if they weren't a fucking shield. [00:32:36] Speaker A: Ooh. Okay, interesting. So if they just embraced more of, like, an actual horse. Yeah. Shape. [00:32:42] Speaker B: Like, literally just remove the shield, remove the, like, background color and just have it be the horse. And I'd call it s tier. [00:32:50] Speaker D: Interesting. [00:32:52] Speaker B: You can tell I'm biased. I really hate the shield logos. [00:32:56] Speaker D: That's not the issue I have with the logo. The biggest thing for me, I think it's a pretty solid logo. I have just never understood why team liquid chose a horse as its mascot. And it is weird. It makes no sense. However, I think team liquid has done a good job with it, and it is iconic. And I do think the logo overall looks nice. So I'm in agreement with you, Steve. I feel like a tier is probably. [00:33:15] Speaker A: About where I put it, where it's. [00:33:16] Speaker D: Like, a good logo that also just doesn't really mean anything. [00:33:19] Speaker A: So it's a solid logo. [00:33:21] Speaker D: It's very trad sports, honestly, to me. [00:33:24] Speaker B: Like, as a logo, they were team curse before that, whose logo was literally just a flame. What flames have to do with curse, I don't fucking know. So, like. But that was their history, has always. [00:33:34] Speaker D: Cursed was the company as well. Right. You know, the voice pre discord. Right. So, yeah, yeah, true. [00:33:41] Speaker B: I'm just saying they've always had a logo that doesn't really have any connection to them directly. [00:33:45] Speaker D: This is true. [00:33:46] Speaker A: Fair enough. Bakel? I feel like we haven't had a lot of disagreement. Do you have any thoughts on Team liquid in a tier? [00:33:51] Speaker C: No, I think that's really the solid positions. [00:33:54] Speaker A: Could be. [00:33:54] Speaker C: And you say we haven't had any disagreement because we're getting all the easy ones out of the way. [00:33:58] Speaker A: That's a good point. There's been no, we're getting a lot of the big ones out. Okay, well, that is once for each of us. We're going to go back to the top. Hawk, you are up next as the guest on the show. Pick any logo that you would like and place it anywhere you'd like on the tier list. [00:34:12] Speaker D: All right. I have no idea if this is gonna be, like, the first hot take, but put fnatic in s. I think fnatic's logo is very, very nice. It's extremely iconic. The fact that you, like, theoretically can find all the letters of their. Their name, which is a little bit questionable, admittedly, but the fact that you can find all the letters in the name, like, in the logo, I think, is very cool. [00:34:32] Speaker A: So it's iconic. I'll give you that much. I will give you that much. Personally, I think s is a little high, but bickle, I saw you also kind of react. So what are your thoughts? [00:34:45] Speaker C: I think the reason it's being put so high is because it is a legacy logo that has been around for so long. [00:34:52] Speaker A: Fnatic is longer than I have in the scene. [00:34:54] Speaker B: Fnatic is one of the few logos that predates League of Legends. [00:34:58] Speaker C: Exactly. Like, it hasn't changed, which is what makes it so iconic. But I think as a logo, it's just, meh. [00:35:08] Speaker B: I'd knock it down to a tier. It gets up to a tier for being iconic. [00:35:13] Speaker A: Yeah. I would say a tier is more comfortable. I understand s tier, though. I'm not like flaming Hawk. I don't think this is egregious to put it there, but I think it is. And I'm curious, Hawk, do you also agree it's mostly from the legacy side of, like, it's just been here for so long? Yeah. I mean, seen this so many times. [00:35:29] Speaker D: I definitely don't disagree with that. I think it's a nice logo too, but I don't disagree it's mostly off legacy. The reason why I put it over an s is I do think it's better than tL. And I think it is also better than the rest of the pack that is probably going to fill out the middle tiers here. So that was my reason if we. [00:35:46] Speaker A: Ever moved it down for any reason, because at the end we will move things around, it would go probably in front of team liquid in a tier. [00:35:51] Speaker D: I think that's, like, I would be willing to accept. Like if. Because cool. Honestly, I think if it's just gonna be funny, which maybe is what we want, because gamma gt's logos are so sick. If fnatic goes down to a tier, I just think s tier is empty and that's how much better the gamma g two s are than everybody else. [00:36:07] Speaker A: Yeah, and I think that's okay. Yeah, and that's fine. [00:36:10] Speaker D: I mean, yeah. [00:36:12] Speaker A: With that in mind, though, this isn't something I had thought about at the time, but I believe it was bickel that put bickel. Did you put g two? [00:36:19] Speaker C: Yes, I put g two. [00:36:20] Speaker A: Do you want that in front of gam or behind game? [00:36:24] Speaker B: I don't think it matters. Ooh. [00:36:27] Speaker C: I don't think it matters too much. [00:36:29] Speaker A: I think it does. [00:36:30] Speaker C: I think I put g two in front, though. [00:36:31] Speaker D: I think there's more you can do with the logo. [00:36:33] Speaker A: Okay. If somebody wants to use their move to change that, they can. And you can say g two stays in s tier, s plus. But it has to go behind gam. But we'll keep that in mind going forward. Okay. That is hawk. Jax, you are up next. Pick any logo, place it anywhere. [00:36:48] Speaker B: I'm gonna do one that maybe is a bit contentious. Then I'm gonna go with t one. [00:36:54] Speaker A: Okay. [00:36:54] Speaker B: And I'm gonna put t one's logo in d tier. [00:36:58] Speaker D: That's crazy. [00:37:00] Speaker A: That's crazy. Here's why. [00:37:03] Speaker B: Okay. This is spite. Because t one's logo is the epitome of everything I've hated about logos in recent years. They went from sktt one, which had a colorful logo with detail in the wings and was generally fine. Like, it wasn't the greatest logo in the world, but it had color, it had shape, it had style. And they were like, no, we're gonna make it monochrome. We're gonna make it straight lines. It's gonna be super fucking bland. [00:37:35] Speaker A: It's just the f one logo, right? [00:37:38] Speaker B: I hate t one's logo. [00:37:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:42] Speaker B: I knew this would be the contentious one. [00:37:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so this is the thing is that I guess it's the old Formula one logo. Formula one also did change theirs, but it's very similar to what we have seen in the past. What I do like from it, though is it still feels like an homage. There are still hints of kind of the wing style and that's what keeps. [00:38:04] Speaker B: It out of f tier for me. [00:38:06] Speaker A: What? Okay, so because it connects to something you liked before, it's very low. Hawk. [00:38:11] Speaker D: I like. I don't think t one's logo is the best one in the world or anything I wear. Probably would have had it like high c, low b, though. I feel like it's just like, it's still a really clean logo. And I think if you remove it from, from what it was, I mean, you got to remember the rebrand from SKTT one was because they lost SKT, so they had to rebrand the entire team anyway. It completely changed. [00:38:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:38:31] Speaker D: So, I mean, I, I think for like, considering all that, I think this logo is completely fine. It is very racing, which I actually don't like. I don't hate that because it evokes like a certain, you know, connection to, like, other, other things. Again, it's very trad sports. I mean, yeah, I think it's pretty basic, which is why I can see it getting points against. But I probably would have had it like top of sea. I think it's better. I think it's better than multiple logos that are still on this list. [00:38:58] Speaker A: So also reminder, you have said trad sports, referencing traditional sports twice now. We call that meat sports. At least I do. Wow. But yes, not to be confused with. [00:39:13] Speaker B: Sports that are actually played with meat. [00:39:15] Speaker A: Of course, yes, I have not seen any of those, but I'm sure they exist because pretty much you can make a sport out of anything, Bickle. What do you think, though? T one and d tier? [00:39:25] Speaker C: I think I can see it. I personally go more low c, but d, I can. I can accept it. [00:39:34] Speaker A: Okay. Seems like that is probably the most contentious one we've had so far. Maybe we see movement from it going forward, but for now, it's going to sit in d tier. Bickle, it's back to you. Then. Pick any of the logos that you see on your screen and you can place it anywhere on the tier list. [00:39:49] Speaker C: I think I'm going to have some company with jacks down with t one and d. I got to throw blg down there. [00:39:55] Speaker A: Okay. In front or behind t one. [00:39:57] Speaker C: Behind t one. [00:39:59] Speaker A: Really kind of agree. [00:40:01] Speaker C: Hate it. [00:40:03] Speaker A: So it's just a big b, a big l, and a big g. It's light blue. And then, like, the pink bar for the g. I think the color seems kind of cool, but it's. It's not, I guess that inspired the beat. [00:40:16] Speaker C: Doesn't even look like a b. [00:40:19] Speaker A: It's like a capital b. Right? It's. [00:40:22] Speaker C: I see it like a weird wonky bee. [00:40:24] Speaker B: It's like got a thumbs up in the middle of the b. [00:40:28] Speaker A: You know what it looks like? It looks like a duck with the Mohawks side profile looking to the left. That's kind of what it looks like to me. Hawk, what do you think about blg, though, in d behind t one specifically? [00:40:41] Speaker D: Yeah, I think it's fine. I don't particularly like this logo. I probably would have had it in d or so alongside maybe their region compatriots. Yeah, I. I think it's. I think it's not that great. I mean, it's. It's what? Just letters. [00:40:58] Speaker A: What I see when I look at this logo, the big b, the big l, the big g, the way it's, like, angled, it reminds me of those, like, 1980s special visual effects where the text, like, shoots up with the bars behind. It's like a seventies bowling alley. Yeah, I kind of like it, though. Yeah, that's part of the game's not bad. [00:41:23] Speaker D: It's just funny. [00:41:24] Speaker B: Kangas just likes the color scheme because it reminds him of CLG. [00:41:28] Speaker A: Is it that simple? And maybe. Maybe two of the three shared letters also feels good. And one's only one off in the Alphabet. But no, it's fine. I do still think though, it's like considering they just took the three letters for their team name and just splash on a logo, I think it's fine. I've seen worse that did the same thing. [00:41:49] Speaker B: The bummer for me is that they're not just using the actual Billy Billy logo. [00:41:54] Speaker A: True. And I guess there are precedents. Like TSM, much more iconic. And it was just those three. But like CLG, much more iconic. Just those three. [00:42:02] Speaker B: Have you seen the actual, like, just Billy Billy. Their sponsors actual logo? It's so much better. It's so good. Yeah. Let me find it. [00:42:11] Speaker A: All right. Jax will go look that up. [00:42:13] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, this is better. [00:42:16] Speaker A: So. So currently, while we get that in chat so I can take a look at it, we have g two and gamma s plus fnatic and s team liquid. And a nobody in BRc. And then t one and blg and d and then loud in f. So just catch everybody up. [00:42:31] Speaker B: I put it in open chat for you. [00:42:33] Speaker C: So much better. [00:42:33] Speaker A: Oh, this is so much worse. What are you talking about? [00:42:36] Speaker D: It's more. [00:42:37] Speaker A: It's more. You may be more unique. If it was just a little tv icon, I would actually like it more, I think. But the, like the little. It looks like a Nickelodeon. Like Ed. Ed and Eddie text. [00:42:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it's great. [00:42:50] Speaker A: I think that's the point. I don't like it for an esports logo. That's what I got against it. It's not an esports logo. [00:42:56] Speaker D: It's just a. It's a cool logo, though. [00:42:58] Speaker B: We'll just have to agree to disagree. I would have put that solidly like. [00:43:02] Speaker A: A tier blg as it is though, is currently in d tier. I think that's too low. But that's just my own opinion. That is where pickle chose to put it, which means it is my choice next, I do believe. Right? Yeah, I got. [00:43:16] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. [00:43:17] Speaker A: Who do I want to go then? Hmm. Okay. Somebody said this and I disagree. So I'm going to make sure it goes into a better position than anybody else would put it because I feel like they put it too low. I'm going to put top esports big old spartan helmet with the tee through it up in crazy bt over top esports. And you're just wrong if you disagree. How is this worse than that? [00:43:46] Speaker D: A just giant helmet that means nothing to the team whatsoever. [00:43:50] Speaker A: And it's a solid orange. [00:43:53] Speaker B: The logo was better when they had night. Still on their team. [00:43:57] Speaker D: Like, it's so boring, admittedly. Like, what? What is. [00:44:00] Speaker A: Okay, but there's a big t, which is the helmets, like, slits, but the. [00:44:04] Speaker B: T is broken up by the mustache of the dude inside it, which breaks up. [00:44:09] Speaker A: That's not where a mustache goes. Drax. I don't know what that is. Explain why there's a break. What is a top esport? [00:44:14] Speaker D: And why is it a spartan helmet? And why is it monochrome? [00:44:17] Speaker A: Why is team liquid a horse? I asked the same question. Why put them in a tier? Because it's a controversial one. It's two colors instead of one. [00:44:27] Speaker D: You know what? [00:44:27] Speaker A: I haven't really thought about the plain orange. That is a little. And fun fact. There's three plain orange logos that are gonna be on this list. [00:44:36] Speaker B: And two that are just solid red of different shades. [00:44:39] Speaker A: You know, I haven't even really thought about that. I still think b is fair. I don't know why people would put this in, like, d tier. I could see c. An argument for c, I suppose. But, like, I think a solid b. [00:44:51] Speaker D: I think this is worse than BlG's logo. Oh, I would put blg higher than top. Maybe, like, we could put them both at c. I don't know. [00:45:00] Speaker B: I agree. But I wouldn't have put blg that low to begin with. [00:45:03] Speaker A: True, true. Okay, well, again, we will have the opportunity to move logos around if we think they're in the incorrect spot at the end. But that is my choice. Hawk, that means it's back up to you. There are four teams remaining. Please pick one and put it anywhere you'd like on the tier list. [00:45:18] Speaker D: PSG Talon has to go above the garbage that is known as top esports. [00:45:22] Speaker A: What? [00:45:23] Speaker D: Okay. I don't know if they should go in high b or low a. I do think their logo is very nice. It's got the red talon, and then it's just PSG's logo. It's not incredibly creative, but I just think it looks clean. And I do think it is the strongest of the four remaining logos that we have. I think put them next to TL, but below TL and a tier. I'm okay. [00:45:43] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, we're going to put them below TL and a tier. I wish for anybody who hasn't seen it, there is the PSG, the Paris Saint Germain logo. And like you said, there's like a little falcon side profile next to the logo. Kind of overlapping it in a way which references the talon side. Because it's PSG Talon for esports. It is a classy logo. I do really like this one, and I would not be upset if this went above team liquid. I actually think it's really good. [00:46:10] Speaker B: I'm with hawk 100%. This, if it wasn't monochrome, would be so much better. [00:46:15] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. If the PSG. Because the PSG logo is blue with a little bit of red. [00:46:23] Speaker D: Logo. Yeah. [00:46:25] Speaker A: Or even this one, which is kind of more see through. It's not like a solid back. It's more of like a PNG. If it's not like a red line, you don't see it. Or the text, which is red. They could have even just made the text. And those circles blue, where they are appropriately on the original logo, and I think it would have been cool. So. Yeah, good point. [00:46:44] Speaker B: All right. Does that mean it's my turn? [00:46:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Let's move on down. Jax, there's three teams remaining. [00:46:49] Speaker B: All right. I'm torn between two to pick from, so I'm going to just go with my heart. We are going to go with astral esports, and we're going to put this in b tier. [00:47:05] Speaker A: In front or behind of top esports? [00:47:07] Speaker B: In front of top esports, of course. [00:47:09] Speaker D: Absolutely. [00:47:10] Speaker A: The final remaining of the plain orange icons, there's no, it's NP's, and that's. [00:47:15] Speaker B: What drags it down. If a straw was a colorful logo of any kind, even just two colors, I think I'd put it a tier. I like it. It's a stylized bird. I don't know what the little star thing by its beak is. I don't know what a straw means in Spanish. Maybe there is some connection there, but. [00:47:34] Speaker A: It'S like when a bird is like a bird mother is feeding its kids, like, it regurgitates. That's what started pellet like. It's just making it for kids. [00:47:43] Speaker B: As we've covered on previous logo rundowns, I am a sucker for the animal logos. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a good logo. [00:47:50] Speaker B: I think it's fine. It could have been better, but it could have been so much worse. [00:47:55] Speaker A: It feels like the team liquid argument for me, where it's like it's better than its contemporaries because it tried something and it pulls it off for the most part. But you are right. Minus points for just being monochrome as well. Just one orange color across whole thing. Does it get points for you for not being a shield, though? Or is it still kind of a shield because it's mostly in a circular pattern. You don't really see the full, like. [00:48:19] Speaker B: Nothing either way on that. I'm just glad we're getting this logo and not r seven's logo or infinity or whatever. [00:48:26] Speaker A: They're. [00:48:27] Speaker B: No, they're different teams. [00:48:28] Speaker A: Gillette Infinity. Remember that one? [00:48:29] Speaker B: Those ones are awful. I wish we had easer respect. They were the better animal logo. [00:48:35] Speaker D: Hmm. [00:48:36] Speaker A: Interesting take, Bakel. Any thoughts either on this one or even the last one for PSG? [00:48:42] Speaker C: Not solid. I don't know if I'm as hot on PSG as the rest of you are, but hate anything so far. [00:48:51] Speaker A: Fair enough. Well, you're up next then. There are only two remaining logos, Flyquest and Gen G. Which would you like and where would you like to place it? [00:48:59] Speaker C: I think I'm going to grab Flyquest here. [00:49:02] Speaker A: Okay. [00:49:02] Speaker C: And I don't know how everybody else feels about this. I'm gonna put them a right between liquid and PSG. [00:49:10] Speaker A: Oh, okay. I like the logo that is higher than I expected. But give me your thoughts. Give me your reasoning. [00:49:17] Speaker C: I personally just like the look and feel of logo overall. Also, the leaf inside meets with their ongoing campaigns they've had, which we actually didn't even mention coming into the episode. They announced they're doing a big Msi wide campaign regarding dragon souls and doting to a bunch of different charities. Great for them. Love to see it continuing, but, yeah, that's cool. [00:49:42] Speaker A: I will say it is one of the most unique styles attempted by any esports team. Instead of like an animal or a symbol, like g two being a samurai, like a social status or a cool character type thing, it's a leaf. That's not something that a lot of orgs or people would try to do from a marketing standpoint. So I will say that that point alone, I think is really cool. Also, the logo is a big q, which is, of course, for quest. Where's the fight? I think it's. [00:50:19] Speaker D: Go ahead. Go ahead. [00:50:20] Speaker B: It is important to note that this is specifically the queue out of the way they stylize their whole name. So the fly aspect is not represented in the logo because they've taken a letter out of the way they write their name for their logo. [00:50:35] Speaker C: If it was the entire written out logo, it would rank much lower, in my opinion. [00:50:40] Speaker D: Yes. Yeah. I think this logo is good. I think a is probably higher than I would have had it too, because I think overall, it is still kind of just a boring and dare I say, little bit derpy looking logo. But I do think fly, especially right now, I think they've had the best branding actually in the lcs this year. So at least the logo does still, like, it's additive to that, so I'm okay with it. [00:51:08] Speaker A: Yeah, fair enough. Again, I think just points for creativity and for doing something different is a big part of it, but it's also not a bad logo on its own. Right. [00:51:17] Speaker B: It's certainly an upgrade over their previous logo. Do you remember the green? I mean, that was. Yeah, exactly. [00:51:27] Speaker A: Their old one was basically half the color of the final remaining team and then combined it with green. And it was a bad color combo. Or even their first one, if anyone remembers that. Like, the. The double wings. It was like a military looking kind of pin the flyquest had, but looks. [00:51:45] Speaker B: Like a unknown from Pokemon. [00:51:47] Speaker A: It did. [00:51:47] Speaker D: It really did. [00:51:48] Speaker A: Yeah. It's crazy. But this one just kind of looks like an unknown in. In what I'm supposed to feel when I look at it personally, Gen G, I'm last up, so I get to put this one on the list. I think it's a little uninspired, but I will say at least it knows what it's trying to do, and it does it all right. I just think it does it twice unnecessarily. It is gen G in text on the top, and then a g and a mirrored, reversed g, which is gen G a second time. They just put their name twice. So I am going to put that as the only representative in c tier. Now, maybe that's too low. Again, I could hear arguments for bottom of b, but I feel like c just fits it. If it was just the gg, I would like it more. I don't think they need the text. Gen G across the top and even. [00:52:46] Speaker B: Like, on leaguepedia, it's listed with just the gg. It's still. It's. Okay. Like, the problem there is just your team name is literally gg in a gaming space. That's, like. It's like, the cheesiest, like, corniest, lamest thing you can name yourself. And they leaned into it. [00:53:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I will say maybe. Maybe extra points for the color scheme because it's unique, but I don't like the piss gold color. I wish it was just gold. If it was, like, a cooler gold color or, like, a little bit brighter, but it looks like muddy vomit. Piss yellow. Like, not. Not, like, cool. [00:53:31] Speaker D: I think if your piss is that color, you need to see a doctor. [00:53:34] Speaker B: You need to drink more water. [00:53:35] Speaker A: Yeah, but that's what it looked. It was, like, dehydrated, right? Like you were out at a park all day and didn't have enough water. Okay. All right. Where would you put it then? [00:53:44] Speaker D: Oh, I think I'm kind of in agreement on the logo overall. I think the main thing for me with. With Gen G's logo, and maybe this is my knock against t one as well, but even t one's tries to do something. I think that's, like, a little bit more interesting, is it's just like. I think when a team's branding is itself, it's less interesting. You know, like, if Gen G's branding is that we are gen g, it's like, okay, cool. What's a gen G? Right? And I do think that's one of the struggles that the. The organization has had, is that Gen G is just gen G, and it's nothing else. [00:54:16] Speaker A: Perfect. Perfect defense of me putting top esports as logo and b tier, by the way, because they're. They're a spartan. We don't even know why they asked spartan helmet on. They just have one. All right, Trojan Helmet. I don't know. It's a trojan helmet. Right. [00:54:31] Speaker B: We didn't get ninjas and pajamas Msi, because they have the best logo in LPL. [00:54:36] Speaker A: They got a fun logo or tt or nip. Oh, so many good choices. [00:54:43] Speaker B: Nip is what I said. [00:54:45] Speaker D: Yeah. Nip is. [00:54:47] Speaker B: God damn. [00:54:47] Speaker A: You know what? You did say that. And in my head. Oh, whoops. I just. I hit something. Oh, what did I just do? I did something. [00:54:52] Speaker C: I just liquid a tier down. [00:54:56] Speaker A: What just happened? I didn't arrows the entire. [00:55:00] Speaker D: You moved a tier. You moved a tier down. [00:55:04] Speaker A: Oh, I did. Oh, no. Well, I guess we can move it back. But I already tried to start correcting. [00:55:10] Speaker D: Things, so gen g down to c. A straw was. This draw was in b, so, yeah, gen G and c engine. See? [00:55:16] Speaker A: Oh, I love that the listeners get to hear this bungle in real time. [00:55:21] Speaker D: It was like PSG up, a straw down flight, and like west up fly. [00:55:27] Speaker A: Quest, was it this? Put. [00:55:29] Speaker D: Put PSG on the right, and then you've got it. [00:55:32] Speaker A: Who's that? [00:55:32] Speaker D: Easy. [00:55:33] Speaker A: Okay. Any other changes? Okay, perfect. [00:55:38] Speaker D: Are we proposing changes or. [00:55:39] Speaker A: This is what that was. This is where things were. [00:55:42] Speaker D: So for the listeners who had to. [00:55:45] Speaker A: Listen, log to be bungle, the. The tier list creator. We have plus tier g two, and gigabyte marines, in that order. In s alone is fanatic. An a tier, a bit of a grouping team liquid flyquest, PSG. Then down in b tier, we got a straw and top esports. In c tier alone is gen G. In d tier, we have t one and blg. And in f tier alone is loud. Now we're going to go through, and each of us can pick any logo that they want and move it up or down one position. Now, I think it's more fair if a logo is moved, it cannot be moved again by the person that put it there. Somebody else can choose to move it. But if you're the one that put it in s tier and somebody moves it down, you can't move that logo back to s tier. So I wasn't really keeping track of who put things everywhere. But just keep that in mind. We're gonna go in the same order. Hawk, you are up first. Would you like to move any logo or do you think everything's perfect? [00:56:43] Speaker D: I would like to move test down with Gen G and behind. I'm sorry, Steve. [00:56:48] Speaker A: Wow. It is an orange down to c tier and behind Gen G, who you said, you said has no branding outside of just itself. And you're removing top esports that has a trojan helmet down below that simply. [00:57:03] Speaker D: Gen G's logo is just more appealing to actually look at top esports is just like, yes, you're right. It is at least trying to do something. However, what it is trying to do looks dumb, so I don't like it. [00:57:17] Speaker A: All right, all right, fair enough. Jax, you are up next. Hawk moved top esports to c tier behind gen G. What would you like to move? [00:57:25] Speaker B: I'm so sorry, Mathias. I'm dropping fnatic down to a tier. [00:57:29] Speaker A: Oh, where would you like to place it? In a tier below flyquest. Below flyquest. So, team liquid flyquest, fnatic pSG. [00:57:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I do not like Fnatic's logo. It is iconic as hell and has been for like 20 years. And that's not even hyperbole. They've been around in shooters for years and years and years before league was a thing. And that's the main reason I think they do belong this high. Cause the logo itself, like, it's just some shapes, there's no cohesion to it. Meaning anything. [00:58:02] Speaker A: It's iconic because of what the has accomplished, not because of the logo itself. [00:58:08] Speaker B: Yes. [00:58:09] Speaker A: Yeah, true. I like that. I think that's fair, Bickle. [00:58:12] Speaker B: I also like the separation this puts between our s plus and everyone else. [00:58:16] Speaker A: Yeah, there's nothing in s tier currently. Bickle maybe can change that. I don't know if Bickle will choose to. What would you like to move? [00:58:23] Speaker C: Honestly, if Jax hadn't moved fnatic, I was going to. [00:58:25] Speaker A: Now that that's out of the way. [00:58:28] Speaker C: I think I'm between two here. I think I'm going to move I'm going to move PSG down to b, but in front of astral. [00:58:43] Speaker A: Interesting. Okay, so PSG was at the bottom of a tier. It was at the far right. So basically, it moved, like, kind of half a position. It's down a tier, but it's still in, like, the same order. If we put them from, like, first to 12th, it didn't move. [00:58:59] Speaker D: It's just in on the tier list. Status degraded. [00:59:02] Speaker A: Yeah, they're stat. They lost the tax bracket. Yep. Interesting. Okay, cool. Well, sorry, what were your thoughts again? Like, the reason for it? [00:59:13] Speaker C: I just feel like the three we have up in a tier stand much better than the PSG logo. There's something about it that just doesn't right with me. [00:59:23] Speaker A: Interesting. I think a lot of what we had said of, like, if PSG made slight changes, they could elevate themselves. [00:59:30] Speaker C: But, I mean, PSG and estral birds of a feather fly together. [00:59:33] Speaker B: Yep. [00:59:34] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:59:34] Speaker A: We got both birds right next to each other and b tier. Okay, that leaves me. I can't move top esports by my own rule that I just said, damn. [00:59:43] Speaker D: It, you can save t one from the depths of d tier, though. [00:59:47] Speaker A: I could save t one, or you. [00:59:50] Speaker C: Could put gen g below top esports to say that they're still better. [00:59:55] Speaker A: Wait, you're right. I could do that. No, I'm not gonna do that. I don't care enough about top esports, but what I do care about is the fact we don't have an s tier logo. [01:00:07] Speaker C: Or should we? [01:00:08] Speaker B: Why should we? G two and gam are just that much better logos than everyone else at MSI. [01:00:13] Speaker A: I'm actually curious. [01:00:14] Speaker D: Steve, you don't even have to move them. I want to know which of those three logos you would put an s to put somebody there. [01:00:20] Speaker A: Unfortunately, I think, based on my own rules, I can't. I would put team liquid. I think team liquid, out of the teams that are in a tier, would be the closest to that s tier. But I technically put it there. So, again, I also. [01:00:30] Speaker D: But if they weren't moved by somebody else, you could change your mind and put them in s right? [01:00:35] Speaker A: No, I think it's. Well, I don't know. What do we think? [01:00:38] Speaker B: I'll leave it up to try to save t one. And I say that as the person who put t one there. [01:00:43] Speaker A: Okay. [01:00:44] Speaker B: You guys were all very offended at that, which means if you want this to represent the cast as a whole, it probably should get moved, because my opinion should not carry that much weight. [01:00:54] Speaker A: Damn it. I also put gen g, so I can't move that one. I was gonna say I'll save t one by moving gen g down to also save top, but I cannot do that. Fine. I will move t one up and I'll put it at the top of c tier in front of top e t sports, unfortunately. But I do agree that I think t one is much better than d. [01:01:11] Speaker D: Tier where it was placed. [01:01:12] Speaker A: So I will graduate it up to at least it's still bottom half, but it's towards the top of the bottom half, so. Okay. That means, yeah, pretty mid. We will post this in the discord. You can check it out if you have not joined already, but you can then let us know how much you agree or disagree with our choices. But they are as follows. S plus we have g two and then gigabyte marines and s tier nothing. It is a big goose egg in there because we think that g two and gam are that much better than the next three, which in a tier are team liquid flying quest and fnatic. B tier, psg talon and astral c tier, t one, gen g and top esports d tier, blg f tier loud. [01:01:57] Speaker D: And that's maybe pretty good at League. [01:02:00] Speaker C: Of Legends, but the west is on point with their logos. [01:02:04] Speaker B: Yep. [01:02:05] Speaker A: Yeah, they are. Yeah, they are game up there as well. [01:02:08] Speaker D: So shout out to them. [01:02:09] Speaker A: Is there anything else egregious that folks are like? If I had another vote, I would do. Or do we think in general, this is like a pretty fair list? [01:02:15] Speaker D: Top esports down to t. [01:02:19] Speaker A: Get out of here. [01:02:20] Speaker C: I think this is fair. [01:02:22] Speaker D: No, I think it's fine. I think it's fine. I'm just trying to be a contrarian at this point. [01:02:27] Speaker A: I mean, you know, at some point. [01:02:29] Speaker B: If I had another scout for tag, I'd move blg up just to create that separation between loud and everyone else. I'd probably still leave it below top. [01:02:37] Speaker D: All right. All right, here's a take for you guys. [01:02:39] Speaker A: All right. [01:02:40] Speaker D: Loud definitely has the worst logo. However, out of all of the colors on this entire tier list, loud does have the nicest color. [01:02:49] Speaker B: No, define it's green screen green. It is literally chroma key green. [01:02:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it looks horrible. You know, it's fucking horrible. No one else really has that great of colors. [01:03:04] Speaker D: It's just orange red. [01:03:06] Speaker B: There's way too much orange. [01:03:08] Speaker C: There's all the first catches my eye. Yes. Is that a good thing? Probably not. [01:03:14] Speaker B: It's loud's logo screams I was designed by a twelve year old furry. That is the color scheme they chose what? [01:03:23] Speaker A: You know what? That's a correct. I'm not gonna ask for further clarification, but I will say at least it's a loud color, so they are on brand there. All right. Facts. All right, cool. Well, that is it. That is the logo review segment. Thanks, everybody, for tuning into that. We love doing this for every international event, but that means we can actually talk a little bit more about the teams that we haven't covered yet. Specifically the teams that can. That will be in the play ins and potentially have a chance to make it out into the second stage, which is a bracket stage. I keep wanting to say group stage because that's how it's always been, but that is not how it is right now. But we do have special guest hawk on for a particular reason. First off, we love having you on, but second of all, you did cover CB Lowell for the past year and a half. How long has that been? [01:04:12] Speaker D: Yeah, I started the 2023 split one, which is for all of us that live in seasonal countries, spring split, but down in Brazil, they don't have seasons, so it's split one and split two. [01:04:23] Speaker A: Okay, well, we're going to cover a little bit of a stroll, PSG talent and game, at least to the extent that we kind of know the historical context of these teams. But happy to have you on hock to start us off with. Loud, the representative from CB Low. Things that I want to hear from you to start off, give me kind of the story of the team and how they qualified for MSI. What was their journey like through their local region? Yeah. [01:04:45] Speaker D: And so for anyone that has any familiarity with Cibilol, you would know that loud. So they have now four peded, which is pretty unprecedented. This is by far the biggest dynasty that any team has ever had in Brazil. In fact, the narrative we were going with when I was doing grand finals in split two last year was that no team had ever three pieces. There had been multiple teams that had won back to backs. You know, you have Redknids in the past Int z, etcetera. Loud did the three peat and now they four peded. And their roster has largely remained the same throughout the entire run with Robo Croc and Tenones, their top side being the same through all four titles and their run through the cpu, lol itself. This split was a very loud run in that they were pretty good but not obviously the best in the regular season, but started trending upward as the split went on. And then they were by far the best in playoffs and no one can touch them, which is basically how it always goes, because they're there. They like to live a test in regular season slash, like, slack off, and then they wake up in playoffs and 30 everybody, basically, they did get pushed to five games in the grand finals by Payne Gaming, which is the. So, by the way, pain gaming is the team that they've beaten all four of these grand final wins. [01:06:06] Speaker A: Wow. [01:06:07] Speaker D: And they've sad, man. Oh, it is really sad for especially, you know, I talk about the top side has been the same for loud the whole time. Yeah, same for pain. So it's tough. Tough to be a pain fan. If you. If you guys know RMC, go ahead and send him your condolences. He's a. He's a. He's a pain setchy. But. But, yeah. And loud did get pushed to five games. They were down, down two. One, actually, in the grand finals, managed to come back, which was the closest it has ever been by a pretty significant amount. So, yeah, that's kind of in a nutshell how it's been expectations for loud as far as, like, playstyle is. They are much more controlled than they have been in previous years. You know, Cibilol has always been known as a region that loves to fight, loves to party, and, you know, we're gonna. We're gonna swing or die trying. Loud has been a bit of a departure from even their own craziness. Loud has been one of the teams that promotes that, particularly Robo and Croc are these crazy playmakers. Robo will randomly die in a side lane sometimes, but also get five solo kills kind of vibe. Croc, he has a nickname. Yep, Croc. Where sometimes, you know, he'll see enemy on the screen and, yep, he's going to engage. That's been a lot more tempered. And the team as a whole play pretty solid early games, generate leads, struggle to convert to massive mid game advantages, but then win a team, fight and win the game anyway. That's basically been the. The way it's gone. [01:07:35] Speaker A: So what do we think about them going into MSI then? Cause their group is Group B in the play ins. They have top esports as their first opponent, and then if they lose that, they will play against the loser of fnatic versus gam. What are expectations for loud? Because if we're being honest, Brazil, sometimes they can outperform the other minor regions. They have shown a penchant for that and maybe taken a game off of major regions in the past. We have seen some hype series before, but they've never qualified for, like, the main stage. So kind of give expectations for the power level of this team, especially given. [01:08:10] Speaker D: The group they have been in the main stage. [01:08:12] Speaker A: Kaboom. [01:08:12] Speaker D: 20. [01:08:13] Speaker A: What was it? [01:08:13] Speaker D: 14? [01:08:14] Speaker A: Kaboom. [01:08:15] Speaker D: Yeah. No, but yes. [01:08:17] Speaker A: It's been a long time. It's been a long time. [01:08:19] Speaker D: It's been a long time. As you were saying, though. [01:08:22] Speaker A: Yeah. So expectations based on the group then, do you think that, first off, is there a chance at all? What's the percentage chance of them making it out? But more importantly, who do you think like, their realistic matches and like. Like, how they can win games against any of the teams look like? [01:08:40] Speaker D: Yeah, it's an interesting question. If there's 200% to give, right. Because two teams make it out right, top esports takes 100% of that, and then I would say fnatic probably takes like 50 to 60 of. [01:08:53] Speaker A: Of it. [01:08:54] Speaker D: And then them loud, I would probably give like 25 and gam like ten to 15. That is probably how I'd have my ratings, where I do think loud has a actually legitimate chance to get out. Cause in my head, I think they should be favored against Gam, and I think they can beat fnatic, but are unlikely to do so. Loud in particular in this four peat, back to back to back to back run that they've had, they have set the bar at international. They won our first international best of five in region history in Worlds 2023. In Worlds 2022, they. I'm sorry. At MSI 2023, they won the first international best of five at Worlds 2022, famous bot gap moment against Fnatic, actually. And then last year at Worlds. At Worlds 2023, they won against Gam, which was considered a pretty big upset at the time, in a best of three, I want to say it was. And I think they two owed. So loud has been continuously setting the bar at International for Brazil and trying to raise that higher. And it is for those reasons, I do believe that they should be competitive. However, and maybe this is a hot take amongst my fellow CB low enjoyers, I think this might be the weakest loud we have sent. [01:10:10] Speaker A: Oh, interesting. So it's. Even if you're giving them kind of a quarter odds, it sounds like to make it out of the play ins. It's not necessarily because they're like a better version of loud we've seen the past and maybe is more so just the competition they're against. Because I think arguably gam is. Should be nerfed because of all the roster swaps and changes that have happened because of everything going on there. And then Fnatic. I would also argue maybe one of the weaker tier two teams at Lec has sent to an international tournament in a while. So maybe things just kind of flip heads for them or I guess, roll high for them if we're thinking it's more than just like a 50 50, but I still think that that's overall a bold move, and we'll cover predictions later to see, you know, if we actually think that's going to happen. But I do have hope for loud as well going into this. It's just rough. They're going to stop esports in round one, man. They're going to. [01:11:07] Speaker D: Okay, they're going to get 02:00 by top, and I don't think that's a surprise. I mean, honestly, I think fnatic's going to get two out by top, right? So it's like, it's fine, you know, and we're going to go down to the losers bracket, and it's going to come down to the series against fnatic and Gam and whether or not we can convert on that. I do think this is a weak loud, but to your point, Steve, I do think this is a very weak gam, and I think that this is a fanatic that is maybe a bit scattered in their performance. And I do think the scrappiness of Cibilol, even though this is a more controlled loud than it has been in the past, the scrappiness of the region and the. Of the players, and I do think the individual talent of the players, like, that's never been something I think CBL has necessarily struggled with, is, like, just outright being a lot worse. I think guys like Robo and tenones in particular have shown over the course of their careers that they can actually punch against some of the best players in the world. Right? And so given all of that, like, it is completely within the realm of feasibility that they take a best of three series over fnatic if, you know, they show up on the day. Fnatic does not. [01:12:09] Speaker A: Yeah, okay, fair enough. There's a chance for loud esports. Maybe not a high one, but there is a chance. But thank you, hawk, for coming on. Any final thoughts for the team or the roster? Like, any specific players that you're like, hey, if you like this style of League of Legends, if this is what you want to see when you load into a best of three or potentially a best of five, this is how you want your team to play. That's why you should watch loud. Any, like, fun stuff to identify how they play the game or, like, why people should care. [01:12:38] Speaker D: Yeah, there's a bunch of reasons, and I'm glad you asked to get into that a little bit. I'll just try to set, like, brief expectations for every player on the team. First of all, why you should love loud is that the fans of CBlol are so fucking passionate about this team, and they love their region, and, like, everyone will rally behind them. [01:12:58] Speaker A: I think pop off on Twitter, just tweet supportively of loud. [01:13:01] Speaker D: No, literally. Yeah. You know how many brazilian Twitter followers I have from since I've done cv? Well, it's crazy. [01:13:06] Speaker A: Yeah. So. [01:13:08] Speaker D: So, yeah, I like, I think, like, the state of league esports in Brazil is in a really good place right now. And just in general, esports in Brazil is thriving. So I think that in and of itself is a reason to root for loud. It's for passionate fans and a passionate region and a passionate team. I mean, this team are the kind of guys, like, if Robo gets a solo kill, he will stand up and shit talk his other top laner, like, across the stage. [01:13:33] Speaker A: It's awesome. That's awesome. [01:13:34] Speaker D: It's awesome. [01:13:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Let's get loud versus team liquid. At some point, I want ApA to match up against that team. [01:13:42] Speaker D: It would be crazy. So, yeah, I love the passion and the fire of this region. Robo, in particular, one of the. I mean, he's now the winningest player in cb little history. He has surpassed our goat BRT team. [01:13:56] Speaker A: Wow. [01:13:57] Speaker D: Robo is definitely the greatest top laner of all time from Brazil. He will have his Olaf respect band, he will have his Renekton respect band, and he will try to play for the one v one. He's not afraid of anybody, and he'll try to skill check them. I love watching this guy. He's also a massive enter, as every top laner should be. All the goats of top lane are massive enters. True. Yeah. Maybe my favorite player in the CP Bowl, Croc. He's like the facilitator jungler that is just the engine behind this team. Main engage guy a lot of the time. Tenones, one of the goats of Cblol, he was there when Kaboom Kaboom de Alliance back in 2014. He has been in the scene for forever. And I mean, just a brilliant mage player. He has, in my opinion, been the best player on this loud, this split, which is contrary, I think, to every other split that they have won in recent years, where Tenones, in my opinion, was good, but not the guy. I think he has really stepped up here in split one. And Ben, the guy when Lao was kind of stumbling a little bit, especially in regular season. Interesting root is just a great consistent ad carry. And then Redbert, I think he is weaker than SEOs, which is one of the reasons I say I think this is a weaker loud. However, Redbert has been having a great split. Also a native brazilian support. He's won in the past. A very storied player. And what I do like about Red Bird is he's equally willing to play enchanters and tanks. [01:15:27] Speaker A: I do like that in sports as well. It gives a lot of flexibility. But the difficulty is always with these wild card region or minor region teams. I guess, as they're called is even if they dominate their own region, it's so tough to know their strength going up against like better teams. I think game is going to be a much easier match for them. I could see them pushing for that qualification. Best of five. I think we will get loud in a best of five at MSI, but cause I believe the qualification matches everything's best at three. [01:15:58] Speaker D: Everything's best of three in play. [01:15:59] Speaker A: Oh, even the qualifications are best of three. Nevermind, nevermind. Then. We will not get them into a best of five. My bad. [01:16:05] Speaker D: Except for the fact that we will see them in a best of five. Cause they're gonna get out of play ins, right? [01:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And then into finals where CB's, when CBlo gets two world spots. Yeah, yeah, you're right. We did cover the possibility of that. Well, either way, that is loud in a nutshell. Thank you so much, Hawk, for kind of talking us through that. You were covering them all split for the last three splits. So great to have kind of your insight. We'll keep our eyes on tenones in particular because there's a lot of good mid laners. It's going to be going up against cream. [01:16:32] Speaker D: It's going to be tough against Merrick Brozda. I will say, I think my one concern, fnatic, might be a tough stylistic matchup for loud. I think Robo will have to beat Oscar, which is easier said than, yeah, it's a tough. Cause I do think like tenones is an all time great of CBOL. I do think humanoid is probably just better. And so that is going to be tricky. [01:16:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're kind of expecting that matchup based on gam coming into it. But you know what, why not talk about that? Let's just stick in Group B. B, I believe that we have you coming over here to chat about the gigabyte Marine. So give me kind of overview. This is going to be as in depth because Hawk obviously obviously knows loud, very well, covered the entire region. But Bickel, give us initial thoughts. What can we think about when it comes to gam? [01:17:22] Speaker C: Yeah, sure thing gam. The legacy of the VC's always coming in as that contender. VC's in a bit of a different situation this year as many people may remember. We talked about this a couple weeks ago, big match fixing scandal hit the entire region, put it on pause, knocked the playoffs down from sixteen s to four teams and even took out multiple players from every team. Gam coming in didn't escape unharmed. They're still running Kiaha and Levi as their top end jungle. Legendary players that have been around for a while. Elio still their support who'd been playing with them all year, but they have a different mid and 80 carry than they had earlier in the season. Their original players got caught up in the scandal so they brought Emo and easy love in to fill in and part of that just makes me think this is not going to be a good showing for the VC's gam despite coming in as the two seed dropped in round one of the playoffs and had to fight their way through the losers bracket to make it here. And I think a bigger reason they made it here is because Kia and Levi have that longevity and have that strength as individual players. But I think the fact that they lack the synergy that all these other teams are going to have is really going to be detrimental to them. In all honesty, I think going to go 0202 and just drop that would be tough. [01:18:49] Speaker A: A little bit of just kind of surface level information about the two players coming in. Emo was on a team MG and box esports as a starter for about a year and a half and has been as sub for gaming the entire year. So has been listed at least on the roster. I don't know how much that means he's been playing with the team, but at least according to league pedia since January has been listed as a sub now on the starting roster going into MSI, maybe that's a little bit better, but same cannot be said for easy love who did just recently join the team specifically because of the scandal going on, joined in March, which is kind of when that news broke. So I think specifically the bot lane is something that we'll be looking at. I struggle to disagree with your assessment of a strong chance of that. 0202 Jack so it sounded like you had a point you wanted to add? [01:19:41] Speaker B: I was going to say the best credit I can give for easy love is he is a former gigabyte Marine as well. He's been on the roster several times in the past. Specifically, he was on the 2018 roster, which was after they actually looked good internationally. So it's not huge praise, but like, at least he's been there before. Like, he's been to higher level four VC's competition. [01:20:15] Speaker A: True, true. Good point. It seems like it's not doomsday for game, I will put it that way. It doesn't feel like this roster has no shot. And honestly, 0202, despite like, still thinking that that's possible, I could also see a world where they still beat loud or like, take a game off of fnatic. I don't think that it's like, oh, you can't believe in this team, it's so over. But they're, I think, the underdogs of this group just based on the environment that they're in. [01:20:48] Speaker D: I agree with that. I don't think Gamma's like completely cooked, if I'm being honest. I do think Gam, even with their main roster, arguably is weaker than loud anyway. Like, like, again, the gap, I think, has been closing between CBO and VC's, specifically whether VC's has gotten weaker, Brazil's gotten stronger or whatever. And I don't think these changes like destroy them enough to make them completely cook looked. But yeah, I just think that they're probably like, like I said, I think they have like a 10% chance to get out where it's like it would take an outside shot, but VC's at least still has players. We all know Levi can be that guy to maybe make a run. [01:21:29] Speaker A: True, good point. But there we go. That is gam. That means let's move on to the next of the playing teams that we haven't really covered yet. Jax, I'd love for you to give us again just kind of bird's eye view oversight of the birds. [01:21:44] Speaker B: Psg Tallon all right, so psg Tallon, you know you love them. If you're mongoose, they haven't changed much. They've added in Betty, a former flash wolf Zady carry to pair with Maple, the former Flash Wolves mid laner and the rest of the core of PSG talent is the same thing we've seen for the last couple years. It's Ozzy in the top lane, Junjia and jungle and Woody and support. They're fine. This is a team that looked adequate but couldn't close it against major regions in MSI and worlds last year. Going two three against bds at worlds and zero three against Golden Guardians at MSI 2023. Now, those were without Betty. I do think when he's on form, Betty could be an upgrade over whoever the fuck their previous ad carry was. I don't even remember Waco. Like, it's not saying much. Cause Betty was really good back in the day, but that was a long time ago. [01:22:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:54] Speaker B: The biggest knock, I think, against PSG talon is just that they're in the stronger of the two groups. [01:23:02] Speaker A: He kind of feels that way. They're in there with t one flyquick, t one flyquest, and est, which is probably gonna be the one they can beat. [01:23:11] Speaker B: I think they're doomed just based on draw because I don't see a world that they beat flyquest or t one at all. And they have to beat one of those two to make it out. I think if they were swapped with loud or gam, they would have a shot. I still don't think they beat fnatic, but I think there's more chance of them upsetting fnatic than there is flyquest. [01:23:33] Speaker A: That's an interesting take because there are people out there. I don't agree with them, but I have seen sentiment online, mostly from European fans, if we're being honest, that PSG can upset flyquest in the first round and actually take them down. But I also am on your side. I don't think that's. [01:23:49] Speaker B: I say that as the EU fan of the show. [01:23:52] Speaker A: Yep. [01:23:53] Speaker B: Like, I don't give a shit about North America. We suck as a region. I like watching EU. [01:23:58] Speaker A: Hey, I think PSG has more chance of talk about for years. [01:24:02] Speaker B: I know generations, and I still loved the 2019 MSI Battle of the Atlantic grudge match. It was great. But I. I don't see PSG having a chance against FlyQuest or t one. Like, I give them maybe a 5% chance to get out just because their group is rough for them. [01:24:24] Speaker D: Jackson. [01:24:25] Speaker A: Oh, two. Oh, yeah. Go, go. [01:24:26] Speaker D: I was gonna say. I have a quick question. You have them as the group. A two and one on this. [01:24:32] Speaker B: I'm aware. I'm aware. [01:24:34] Speaker A: Okay, interesting. [01:24:37] Speaker B: Again, interesting EU fan. I gotta be spicy. [01:24:39] Speaker A: Okay, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about that later. Spoilers. Hawk. I'm sorry. [01:24:44] Speaker D: I'm sorry. [01:24:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I want to hear that. [01:24:46] Speaker B: That was specifically designed to upset people. Okay, we'll get there. [01:24:51] Speaker A: Well, now, you know, I was gonna ask the question, but now I'm a little worried that like, it's going to give spoiler. I guess we can kind of transition. I'll give quick for Astralis first Est before I ask the question for you, because I like to hear kind of people's thoughts of how their group's going to look, but I'll let you talk about it when we get into the predictions themselves. So I'll cover Astral esports, sorry, not Astral estrall esports, aka est. They are the LLA representative. There's a couple names on this roster that you'll probably recognize if you are a western fan, specifically LCS fans. Jose Deodo, this is the team that he went over to after leaving the LCS. Also returning member. Some players like Ackerman for example, he was at MSI, so you might recognize like that name. [01:25:44] Speaker B: Cody as well. [01:25:45] Speaker A: National events. Yeah, Cody as well. So there's a few returning members here, but also some new ones. Overall, they had a pretty tough road to get to the MSI representative. They swept the finals, but they did have a very close series against our seven reals, who was their opponent in the finals in the upper bracket semifinals match or like the winners finals. So they went six and two against that team who also the lower bracket was kind of a bloodbath between all those teams trying to challenge est, but they are the representative coming in with that. That said, historically, LLA has always been a very weak region at the international stage. My apologies to the south american fans that will be cheering them on. I am happy that you get a team to cheer for. I will also be cheering them on because as we continue on throughout the years, it's looking more and more like we might just combine the Americas in League of Legends, kind of like they did with Valorant. So there's a chance that this will be part of our region going forward, but I do not have a lot of expectation for them. Despite Jose Deodos continued kind of dominance in the LLA as well. So I think they also bomb out kind of like the gam effect in Group B. I see Est going o two against t one. Maybe they can take a game against PSG, but I kind of anticipate an zero four bow out here. So that is kind of a overview of some of the teams. A little more deeper. Dive into loud just because we have a caster from the region here. But with that said, let's get into predictions. We hinted at it, so let's cover group a first. We have t one across the board, but the second team making it out of Group A is where things get a little spicy. Myself, Bickle, and Hawk all have Flyquest making it out of group A. Jax, you got PSG. Tell me your thoughts. [01:27:39] Speaker B: Oh, PSG doesn't do this, but I put it there anyway to piss off all the Na fans who listen because I think it's funny also because. [01:27:51] Speaker A: Fair enough. I love how you said 5% chance earlier and that you're still predicting. You're betting on the five. [01:27:57] Speaker D: Yeah, you know, I respect a man sticking to his guns. [01:27:59] Speaker A: You know, I'm happy that you are not contrarian. [01:28:03] Speaker B: At least our predictions don't stand for anything. They're just us fucking around. So I'm going to use it to be a troll and an asshole because it's funnier that way. [01:28:14] Speaker A: We don't even keep track of like, our percentage predictions throughout a split anymore. We used to do that. We got to start doing that again because then I think people might take it a little more seriously. But all right, 5% chance PSG make it out. But you do bet on the 5%. The rest of us have flights. Quest I think it's fairly self explanatory. I do still think Flyquest is a very strong team for a north american representative going. I know that against the the other regions that doesn't always mean too much, but against minor regions it often does mean a lot. It is rare that we get upset by the minor league. [01:28:45] Speaker B: Like I mentioned a moment ago, Colton Cardians three o'd PSG most recently, and. [01:28:51] Speaker A: I think this black west team is stronger than the Golden Guardians representative that we see. [01:28:54] Speaker D: There's a pretty common sentiment that that Fly might still be the strongest LCS team at this tournament, so which I am hesitant to agree with. However, I think the general sentiment is at the very least, fly and team liquid are very close and that lcs feels like it should be okay this year whether or not we're competitive against LCK and LPL can't speak for, but yeah, so I'm in agreement. I think fly, I would be surprised if they did not get it done over PSG, but PSG and PCs as a whole, I do feel like is a region and back when it was lms that has incredibly volatile and varied international performance. So you never really know. [01:29:35] Speaker A: Yeah, it's tough to really put your thumb on them, but I mean, they always can do that upset. So you can't say certain, but we think favor defyquest as a group. So let's go over to Group B for the play ins across the board top esports making it out as that two o seed. No surprise there. That would put them into. I believe that was group. Group C in the main stage or I guess it's not a group, but like that. That tier for seeding going into the knockout stage first round, but for the second team making it out. Oh, my good. I can't believe this. I can't believe that we actually have this much parity. Jax and Bick will have fanatic making it out. I think that's the obvious choice. And I'm sure that we're about to lose a lot of listeners faith here because myself and Hawk, who might be biased, but I don't have to say that have loud making it out of the play in stage. I'm going to get my thoughts first and then Hawk, I'll have you back me up because you'll probably be a little more sane with your take. I'm doing this because I really want my socials to pop off during MSI and there's a chance that like maybe one or two Brazilians listen to this podcast and they might spread the word that I have faith in loud. And maybe I can like screenshot this and tweet it so that it's a completely biased or it's not biased, but like a selfish reason for picking lab. But what are your thoughts? Why do you actually think they can make it out? [01:30:58] Speaker D: Steve, you've at least gained the respect of the entire CBO English broadcast crew for this. [01:31:03] Speaker A: Also, anytime an EU team is in a stage, I always have to put them. [01:31:07] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. I want people to remember what happened last time fnatic and gam played against Loud at an international. We beat them. [01:31:17] Speaker A: That's great. That's it? That's all you have to say? [01:31:20] Speaker D: I mean, that's like, like I said, I think. I think loud has a legitimate, albeit underdog shot of overcoming fnatic and getting out of this group. I do think it is possible. I think loud has ability to punch above their weight class and genuinely fanatic. Shaky gam. Very shaky. And again, what happened last time we played against fnatic and gambling. We beat them. We could do it again. It's time for CB Lil to make an appearance on the main stage once again. [01:31:51] Speaker A: Can't wait to see it. Jax, why are we crazy and smoking the good bad stuff? [01:31:57] Speaker D: We're smoking the very good. [01:31:58] Speaker A: It's just overall out of our minds. [01:32:00] Speaker B: Because humanoid, Noah and June are going to fucking destroy Tinnon's root in Redbert and therefore, it doesn't matter what Roboan croc can do to Oscar and razor. [01:32:12] Speaker D: The fact that you think it's going to be Noah in June doing the destroying I think means that loud has a better chance than you think. [01:32:18] Speaker A: Oh, well, I don't know Loud's bot lane, but I do know Noah in June and specifically Noah I have a lot of faith in and respect for. [01:32:26] Speaker D: He's a good player. [01:32:27] Speaker B: June are the best bot lane in Lec. [01:32:30] Speaker A: Yeah, they're, they're pretty dang good. [01:32:33] Speaker D: I have never seen Root and Redbert lose a game for their team. [01:32:39] Speaker A: Ever. [01:32:39] Speaker B: We get to find out in just a couple days. [01:32:41] Speaker A: We'll find out. Yeah, you're right. [01:32:43] Speaker D: If anyone, like I said, if I think loud is going to struggle mid jungle because I think, like I said, I think Merrick Brasda is going to probably be a problem for tenones and Croc is the worst player on loud. So that is going to be the testy part, I think. [01:32:56] Speaker A: But we'll see. [01:32:57] Speaker D: I mean, because I do agree, I think Noah and Junior are pretty good. June, I'm a little sussy on no. I think is quite a good ad carry. [01:33:04] Speaker A: So in my opinion, no is, yeah, the, the firepower between that combo. But I think that June still works pretty well with them. But with that said, that is the MSI preview episode with the minor regions and specifically play ins covered. That's our thoughts. Let us know in the discord if you agree or disagree with any of our takes, especially the tier list which like I said, I will be posting in there. Thank you so much for coming on Hawk. It was awesome having you on yet again, especially educating us on all things cb low and giving your thoughts on the logos and such. Where can people find you if they want to go support your work because I know that you got a lot of stuff going on, specifically if you want to plug the sea lol stuff that's happening here in na soon. [01:33:43] Speaker D: Yeah, you know, always a pleasure to talk Cb lol or na or I guess EU as well. I've been following it for, you know, ten years. But, but no, it's great, great having me on. You can follow me on Twitter. Hawkcast is where you're going to find the most stuff. Also check out at saltyrunbackpod on both Twitter and Twitch, as well as running the rift on Twitch. Because for those that don't know, me and my broadcast partner grapes that co own a platform called Salty Runback are crowdfunding a broadcast for the college championship, which actually started yesterday with the first round. We weren't able to raise the money to do the first round, but every other round of the tournament, save for the grand finals, we will be streaming because the company in charge refused to put the budget forth to have an official stream for the shows, and we believe people deserve to be paid. So we have crowdfunded already over $10,000 to go towards this stream. Every dollar does genuinely help a lot. It goes right back to the really talented broadcast professionals that will be having to help us with this project. So if you like collegiate, it's one of. In my opinion, it's actually got the best storylines and rivalries in North America as far as competition is concerned. Doesn't have to be the highest level of play, but these players have a lot of fun. So be sure to check out those streams. If you can check out our GoFundMe, it would mean the world. However, obviously you do not have to if you do not have the means, but yeah, I mean, thanks again for having me on. It's always a lot of fun talking with you guys. [01:35:12] Speaker A: Yeah, great to have. And to reiterate that point, for anybody who maybe doesn't have the full context, Riot's just been kind of like more and more hands off from the collegiate League of Legends product and shows every year. And this year in particular, it's like the most hands off finals are going to be in Idaho as opposed to live at the Riot games arena. They're partnering with Boise State, who does have a good esports arena. Cool set up there. Hopefully it's a good experience for the players, but significant downgrade compared to previous years. So it's incredible that Hawk and grapes have been able to raise that much money. They have plans to cover a lot of the games. They're partnering with schools like Gen G is helping sponsor. So it's cool that like, some orgs are stepping up and being like, yeah, we'll help out with this. And it's entirely community funded and going directly towards the show that they're going to put on. They're paying for graphics, they're paying for content creators, they're paying for casters, they're paying for producers, all from this crowdfunded thing. So, yeah, happy that you plugged that. If anybody listening to podcast is interested in helping out with that, go check out the salty run. Yes, salty run back on Twitter and Twitch. Jax also twitch at tv Jackson, is that just the same? Yeah, sweet. [01:36:31] Speaker B: Cool streaming. A lot of league trying to fix my fucking lp gains because holy shit. I have been demoted out of of Platt so many goddamn times, even though I was fucking Emerald last season. It has been a nightmare of trolls. [01:36:48] Speaker A: That sucks. [01:36:49] Speaker D: That is tough. The Caster low will get you. [01:36:51] Speaker B: And sometimes I win the games with the trolls. I had a game where my top side of my map, literally just three v seven. Then we won. But like every game, every game has someone just having a fucking meltdown. And sometimes they're on the enemy team and I just get a free win. And often they're on my team and I get an automatic loss. [01:37:14] Speaker A: So if you like watching a man slowly but steadily lose his sanity, go check out Jax's twitch streams because they. [01:37:22] Speaker B: Are a good time. Come, come chat. In my chat, there's not enough activity when I stream. [01:37:27] Speaker A: And what rank are you right now? [01:37:28] Speaker B: Gold one. [01:37:29] Speaker A: Gold one. All right. And if you want to see him promote to what would have been plat five, but is now four. And also give, speaking of five, five stars for listening to the episode. Wherever you do listen to the podcast, we do appreciate it. Helps us get known and get out there. We have some changes coming up on the horizon. Make sure to give Duffy a big old happy birthday, but a reminder that, yeah, he's been doing this for many, many years. We're lucky to have had him for so long, but he will be moving on. So we'll have some stuff to announce coming up. But again, you can always expect us. Same place, same locations. You'll find the episodes on the weekly basis, just as you always have. Thanks so much for the support, everybody, especially the patrons who help pay and keep things going. We love you all, and we will see you next time. Bye.